Scotland end of season summary and awards

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Scotland season 2017-2018

Summer tour

Argentina 15 - 44 Scotland
USA 30 - 29 Scotland
Canada 10 - 48 Scotland

6 Nations

Italy 27 - 29 Scotland
Ireland 28 - 8 Scotland
Scotland 25 - 13 England
Scotland 32 - 26 France
Wales 34 - 7 Scotland

AIs

Scotland 53 - 24 Australia
Scotland 17 - 22 New Zealand
Scotland 44 - 38 Samoa

Points for - 336

Points against - 262

Summary

Well it is probably fair to say this has been one of the most memorable seasons in recent times! Some stand out wins (England, France, Australia), some incredible performances (those three plus NZ), combined with a harrowing defeat (Wales) and an embarrassing lesson that you can’t put a bunch of kids out in international rugby and expect to win (USA).

All in all we have seen a lot of attacking rugby, some great tries, although some dodgy defence at times. Scotland have a reputation for bad defence, which has been true at times, but this season we scored 74 points more than we conceded – as long we keep that up we should be OK….

Townsend will have learnt a hell of a lot from his first season in charge. Personally I would like to see us tighten up our defence, even if that means limiting our attacking ambitions slightly (but only slightly). There’s lots fo look forward to next season with a world cup carrot at the end of the stick.


End of season awards

Player of the season
Forward of the season
Back of the season
Young player of the season
Debut of the season
‘Must do better’ award

No he ain't, he's still sporting his 70's mop!

Now that my quadrennial interest in the round-ball game has been consigned to the toilet, I've gone and bought a ticket for the Argentina game.

"I'm sorry rugby, it'll never happen again. I can change. Wait, are those my suitcases by the door?"

Facebook is awash with "its coming home - no it isnae"

It's actually quite sad. I was saying the England collective being was on the whole well behaved. "Fans" weren't rioting and the media had been tastefully subdued about the whole thing to start off with. But then England got to the Q/F and the strutting around like John Inverdale on John Inverdale appreciation day began which then fulled the "Anyone but England" carry on up here.

I really wish England's media/hype train would learn to calm the feck down and Scotland/Wales/Ireland need to get those giant chips off their shoulders.

As my old primary teacher used to say, two wrongs don't make a right!

I was happy to support England - but I have also been born and raised here (albeit to an "anyone but England" dad, despite being an exile himself).

I think it's a shame that a lot of the Celtic nations fans have this thing about England - all for a bit of friendly mockery but it seems to very quickly turn sour - I saw something about the Scotland team having beaten Croatia more - obviously ignoring the fact they had their summer holidays during the world cup.

Despite feeling like England, Wales and Ireland are annoyingly overhyped, if Scotland were knocked out of the RWC earlier, then I'd happily support the neighbours in lieu of there not being a Scottish team. We support team GB at the Olympics, so I don't see why the same logic applies elsewhere when it's the individual nations unless they're playing each other.

As a Scotsman living in London for the first time for a major football tournament it has certainly been eye opening to see how much the country gets behind the team. Given how multi-national London is I can only imagine how areas with a higher % of 'English' people must have been!

I wouldn't go as far to say I have actively supported England but I have been pleased to see them win (I've been fairly neutral throughout the WC to be fair). I find the 'anyone but England' attitude pretty embarrassing as a Scotsman - I appreciate it is often just done in jest but a lot of people really aren't joking.

TBH my main issue is with the English media, particularity the TV coverage. The BBC haven't been too bad (although incredibly England focused as expected), but ITV have been awful and, being blunt, fairly unprofessional - so much so it makes me glad of the quality of coverage we have in rugby (even Inverdale and Sonja!) The commentators have been just awful and Ian Wright has got to be one of the worst pundits out there. I think a lot of Celts see the English media and project the same image onto the coaches and fans, which isn't fair. As always there will be some bampots given the vast numbers of fans following it but the majority are just ordinary people supporting their home nation - something that everyone else in the world does.

The English players and coach especially have actually carried themselves very well during this tournament. No Eddie Jones moments at all and actually have been a credit to the country. There was no great expectation at the start which helped and the excitement has built up quietly and understandably.

Semi finals was a decent outcome and they should be happy enough with that, I think what I have seen of most football fans at work last night, most of them are.

I do worry though that had England gone further, it worked have brought out some of the really boorish behaviour we have seen in the past.

If we are talking about football here, just to chip in.

I personally don't support England in football (or any other sport) because I'm not English.  Also England are Scotland's biggest rivals in football (not so much the other way round these days) so it's entirely understandable that we don't support them.  Celtic fans don't wish Rangers fans well, same with Man Utd and liverpool and so on for pretty much every football team ever.

As has been called out here (I think) and many other places, the media are a nightmare, especially considering England had possibly the easiest run to a semi final ever.  They played 2 good teams and lost to both of them, and scrapped past Columbia.  There were folk last night claiming Southgate should get a knighthood!  It's that kind of stuff that makes it really hard to wish them well.  I have no issue with the players/coaches as they have come across as decent folk, but I wouldn't support them, as I have no reason to.

I fully agree that the media are horrendous but the UK media is is made up of what, 85% English (assuming that this will be reflective of England's share of the population)

Broken down simply it will mean that 85% of what is on the UK media will be to cater for the English contingent. The only way that the other nations could watch a program that isn't based around England would be for each nation to cover the world cup separately which wouldn't be cost effective.

Imagine an STV World Cup program. It would be utterly cringeworthy and would be 100% biased towards Scotland.

The only thing that we'd be able to use as a yard stick would be if Scotland was the only UK team to qualify and then we'd see how much the UK media would cover the world cup. Would they keep talking about England?

Its a really difficult one and the only way to get coverage to cater for the Scottish public would be to fork out for it ourselves. And everyone knows we Scots don't like paying for things and also if there was nothing to moan about, what would we do with our time???

if there was nothing to moan about, what would we do with our time???[/

Engineer Nuclear Fusion, solve world hunger, create a fully functioning fair socialist society, develop spacecraft, explore the universe and evolve to a higher form of being

Sounds like a lot of time, effort and money though... will just continue to bash the Tories and despise the entrenched Elite of Westminster instead.

Tramptastic wrote: if there was nothing to moan about, what would we do with our time???[/

Engineer Nuclear Fusion, solve world hunger, create a fully functioning fair socialist society, develop spacecraft, explore the universe and evolve to a higher form of being

Sounds like a lot of time, effort and money though... will just continue to bash the Tories and despise the entrenched Elite of Westminster instead.

and post selfies and pictures of our dinner on social media!

tigertattie wrote:

Tramptastic wrote: if there was nothing to moan about, what would we do with our time???[/

Engineer Nuclear Fusion, solve world hunger, create a fully functioning fair socialist society, develop spacecraft, explore the universe and evolve to a higher form of being

Sounds like a lot of time, effort and money though... will just continue to bash the Tories and despise the entrenched Elite of Westminster instead.

and post selfies and pictures of our dinner on social media!

If I don't post it, how will people know if I've eaten poached eggs on toast or not?

To quote Trainspotting 2 "Choose Life, Choose Facebook, twitter and instagram in the hope that someone, somewhere cares"

EWT Spoons wrote:If we are talking about football here, just to chip in.

I personally don't support England in football (or any other sport) because I'm not English.  Also England are Scotland's biggest rivals in football (not so much the other way round these days) so it's entirely understandable that we don't support them.  Celtic fans don't wish Rangers fans well, same with Man Utd and liverpool and so on for pretty much every football team ever.

As has been called out here (I think) and many other places, the media are a nightmare, especially considering England had possibly the easiest run to a semi final ever.  They played 2 good teams and lost to both of them, and scrapped past Columbia.  There were folk last night claiming Southgate should get a knighthood!  It's that kind of stuff that makes it really hard to wish them well.  I have no issue with the players/coaches as they have come across as decent folk, but I wouldn't support them, as I have no reason to.

Exactly.

I only start cheering against them when the media get up them, and when English people at work bemoan the fact I'm not supporting them. Someone said it's ridiculous that Scottish people don't support England when we're neighours, and London is only an hour's flight away. I asked them whether they will now be supporting France, which didn't go down well.

End of season awards

Player of the season - Stuart McInally
Forward of the season - Stuart McInally
Back of the season - Greg Laidlaw (for sorting us out in the 6 Nations after the Wales horror show - inspired by Ali Price and Finn Russell)
Young player of the season - Magnus Bradbury
Debut of the season - Magnus Bradbury (hopefully the end of Ryan Wilson's international career)
‘Must do better’ award - Glasgow, as a rugby team, as a cross-section of the population and as a city.

Some alternative awards:

Missing in action: Alex Dunbar - please sort out your injuries, because Peter Horne in defence gives me nightmares. Honourable mention to WP Nel and Ali Dickinson. We need both to be fit and firing next season, the best scrummagers we have.

Thank you God: Adam Hastings - for a while we had Duncan Weir down as cover for Finn Russell. Young Hastings looks the business.

Barlinnie awaits you: Ryan Wilson. Still an average player. Still the village idiot.

Where have you been?? A joint award for Grant Gilchrist and David Denton. Welcome back. Don't worry, Alan Solomons isn't involved in Scottish rugby anymore...

Bad deals: Edinburgh have moved very much in the right direction this season, and grown the proverbial pair, but losing both SH-C and Hardie is not good news. We've lost our best 9 and our best openside. I'm sorry Pyrgos and Watson, but it's true.

Clown of the season: not Scottish rugby related (Scott Johnson, this award will always be truly yours), but Sean O'Brien for suggesting that Eddie Jones (who he?) would have taken the Lions to a 3-0 whitewash over New Zealand, and that Gatland was a poor coach. Great player. Clown.

Actually quite useful: Simon Berghan and Dougie Fife. Two players I had earmarked as club standard at best, and have turned out to be handy this season.

The Welsh would call him World Class: Blair Kinghorn. A Scottish Stephen Larkham, deceptively good at everything he does. The challenge for him starts now: what's his best position? For me he's a 15 every day of the week and twice of Sundays, but with Hogg nailed down at 15 for Scotland Toonie is forced to use him on the wing (whilst Maitland has been injured). He's going to give Toonie some welcome selection headaches over the years to come.

Legend of the season: Richard Cockerill. The pride is restored. 1872......

Hope you're all well. Apologies for being absent for so long. This whole Brexit business has left one having to reconfigures ones personal empire. I'm sure you've all had to make similar adjustments to your portfolios....

funnyExiledScot wrote:End of season awards

Player of the season - Stuart McInally
Forward of the season - Stuart McInally
Back of the season - Greg Laidlaw (for sorting us out in the 6 Nations after the Wales horror show - inspired by Ali Price and Finn Russell)
Young player of the season - Magnus Bradbury
Debut of the season - Magnus Bradbury (hopefully the end of Ryan Wilson's international career)
‘Must do better’ award - Glasgow, as a rugby team, as a cross-section of the population and as a city.

Some alternative awards:

Missing in action: Alex Dunbar - please sort out your injuries, because Peter Horne in defence gives me nightmares. Honourable mention to WP Nel and Ali Dickinson. We need both to be fit and firing next season, the best scrummagers we have.

Thank you God: Adam Hastings - for a while we had Duncan Weir down as cover for Finn Russell. Young Hastings looks the business.

Barlinnie awaits you: Ryan Wilson. Still an average player. Still the village idiot.

Where have you been?? A joint award for Grant Gilchrist and David Denton. Welcome back. Don't worry, Alan Solomons isn't involved in Scottish rugby anymore...

Bad deals: Edinburgh have moved very much in the right direction this season, and grown the proverbial pair, but losing both SH-C and Hardie is not good news. We've lost our best 9 and our best openside. I'm sorry Pyrgos and Watson, but it's true.

Clown of the season: not Scottish rugby related (Scott Johnson, this award will always be truly yours), but Sean O'Brien for suggesting that Eddie Jones (who he?) would have taken the Lions to a 3-0 whitewash over New Zealand, and that Gatland was a poor coach. Great player. Clown.

Actually quite useful: Simon Berghan and Dougie Fife. Two players I had earmarked as club standard at best, and have turned out to be handy this season.

The Welsh would call him World Class: Blair Kinghorn. A Scottish Stephen Larkham, deceptively good at everything he does. The challenge for him starts now: what's his best position? For me he's a 15 every day of the week and twice of Sundays, but with Hogg nailed down at 15 for Scotland Toonie is forced to use him on the wing (whilst Maitland has been injured). He's going to give Toonie some welcome selection headaches over the years to come.

Legend of the season: Richard Cockerill. The pride is restored. 1872......

Hope you're all well. Apologies for being absent for so long. This whole Brexit business has left one having to reconfigures ones personal empire. I'm sure you've all had to make similar adjustments to your portfolios....

For those who struggle with the written word (98% of Glasgow fans - Jimbo being the 2%), what FES is saying here is that some of his Butlers and Footmen are Eastern European and as such are at risk of being deported so he's having to find new staff. He needs some slightly thick manservants who don't mind menial work. He did think about getting some weegies in but they do mind doing menial work (and they'll nick the family silver)

Tiger

funnyExiledScot wrote:Bad deals: Edinburgh have moved very much in the right direction this season, and grown the proverbial pair, but losing both SH-C and Hardie is not good news. We've lost our best 9 and our best openside. I'm sorry Pyrgos and Watson, but it's true.

Absolutely don't agree on that one old boy, Watson is by far the better player in my opinion and a real key player for us. Even going back into the distant past when Hardie was actually on form and playing regularly I'd still have an on form Watson over him every time. Hardie is great for 20 minutes of slightly controlled fury until he injures himself, but he's a long way behind Hamish in the pecking order these days and has a lot of work ahead of him to get back there

No probs MFL, it's a really close one and Watson is probably the more consistent of the two. I'm just thinking back to the last World Cup, on the big stage against the best teams, Hardie was epic. He brings a bone crunching power to his game that Watson, whilst always fully committed, just lacks a shade. Anyway, we're keeping Watson. I suppose the better question is whether Hardie is better than Crosbie, Ritchie or Hamilton at 7. That's an easy one, nasty coke habit notwithstanding.

I'd suggest it's a question of age - Hardie is that bit older and that can have a fair effect on muscle density etc. Watson is still a wee bit fresh faced to be proper hard. Given a choice of trying to tackle either (in a world where im a pro rugby player) I know that I'm likely to get fended/bumped by Watson but I also know colliding with Hardie is going to hurt soooo much more. I know which one I'd prefer to tackle.

Tramptastic wrote:I'd suggest it's a question of age - Hardie is that bit older and that can have a fair effect on muscle density etc.

Coke does that to you as well. 

( )

George Carlin wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:I'd suggest it's a question of age - Hardie is that bit older and that can have a fair effect on muscle density etc.

Coke does that to you as well. 

( )

I was in a job interview a couple years ago, and one of the interviewing partners made a joke about tea consumption at their firm. I joked that I've never actually drank tea, but I have a bit of a Coke addiction. I clarified straight away, but there was about 2 seconds of painful, awkward, face-clawing silence.


Amazingly, I didn't get the job.

I know of an interviewer who got in trouble with HR because he wrote 'fit' on the application of the female interviewee during the interview - what he meant was 'a good fit for the company' but HR didn't take it that way! Luckily common sense prevailed.

funnyExiledScot wrote:No probs MFL, it's a really close one and Watson is probably the more consistent of the two. I'm just thinking back to the last World Cup, on the big stage against the best teams, Hardie was epic. He brings a bone crunching power to his game that Watson, whilst always fully committed, just lacks a shade. Anyway, we're keeping Watson. I suppose the better question is whether Hardie is better than Crosbie, Ritchie or Hamilton at 7. That's an easy one, nasty coke habit notwithstanding.

certainly a fully fit Hardie would give us the option to change the style of play in the back row, has there been any update on where he's going to be playing his rugby next? I know there were rumours of a move to France, presumably nothing has been announced yet?

He's been doing a few Q&As on Instagram lately and people keeping asking where he's off to and he says it isn't resolved yet. France seems to be the likely destination though.

Whoever gets him is going to be pleased. I'm surprised that the usual salary cap breakers in England don't jump in for him. Can't think of a better 7 in the English Premiership.

Hope Hardie finds a club, he's a decent player and definitely Top14 or Premiership standard.

Edinburgh just don't need another flanker on good money with Watson, Barclay, Ritchie, Crosbie, Carmichael, Nayalo & Hamilton.  Hopefully we'll see plenty of Bradbury at 8 and Miller getting some game time.

I'm pleased about Edinburgh's signings;

Barclay - loads of experience and versatility, plus the SRU can manage his playing time, i'd prefer to see him play back-up 7 tbh

Prygos - shrewd signing, Price would have been more exciting but Henry has better game management

Scott - great signing, scored a boat load at Gloucester, test experienced inside centre and bulkier than anything we've had recently, fingers crossed he stays fit

Hickey - no idea but he's a kiwi so will probably be pretty decent

Schoeman - haven't seen much but he's highly rated and we don't have much luck keeping LHs fit

Socino - experienced and covers two positions we're light in, looks very powerful too

Ceccarelli , Cherry, Nayalo, Hamilton, Baggot - squad filler.

I'd say that winger is probably still the biggest weakness in the squad, only Merwe is top drawer right now.  Hopefully Hoyland rediscovers his form or Graham can push on because other than that, it's probably the best Edinburgh side i've seen in a long while.

They're in better shape than the Weegies.

I'm pleased with Pyrgos, Scott and Barclay, but for me the jury is out on the rest. I just don't know enough about them, and just because someone is a Kiwi does not vouch for their quality as a signing: Atiga and Freaun, are clear examples.

I still think we have weakened our options in two positions however. Having options is different to depth.

Agree with your assessment of the Edinburgh players, I think Baggott is just out of the academy, so hopefully he gets a run out this year a bit more.  Same with McClelland, he looked very capable during the U20s so hopefully he’ll get a shot as well.

Actually what a change in fortune we’re having at 10, Hickey (who certainly seems to be fairly highly rated) VDM was decent last year, tired a bit towards the end of the season, but showed his ability.  Then we have Socinio who can cover, plus two youngsters who look like they have something about them in Baggott and McClelland.  Sure it might be too early for them, but in the odd game they should get a chance.  If you compare that to previous seasons then it’s a massive turnaround.

I’m keen to see how Scott & Bennett get on together, if Matt Scott (12) is played at 12.  We have a pack that should be enough to be competative with most in the league and some decent backs.

Wing, as you say, is still a potential problem area, but Fife and Duhan are both good players.  Plus we have Brown coming back (possibly no more than a squad player though), Hoyland’s still injured I think so not sure we’ll see him straight away, and Graham, who certainly has the speed to be a threat, but was possibly too wee last year, so I hope the S&C folks are trying to get him to bulk up a bit.  However I still think he may ultimately play FB for us as it’s his preferred position.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I still think we have weakened our options in two positions however. Having options is different to depth.

What positions?

My hopes are high for Hickey as he's played regular top level rugby in France the last two seasons so will be used to the European style of play, plus he's arrived at the beginning of pre-season so won't suffer from the usual issue that SH players often do when coming straight from a Super Rugby season.

IMO he's not comparable to the likes of Atiga and Freaun as he is an established pro with good pedigree and experience, and is not arriving with a string of injuries/eaten too many pies.

That's a fair point, hadn't Atiga been on an extended holiday before he signed for us? Also hadn't realised but apparently he was diagnosed with degenerative arthritis in his hip just after he joined us.

Fruan was a risk, but there is no doubting his quality, just a shame he was also totally crocked.

Actually Hickey should probably be concerned for his health given our track record.

EWT Spoons wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I still think we have weakened our options in two positions however. Having options is different to depth.

What positions?

Openside and scrum half.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I still think we have weakened our options in two positions however. Having options is different to depth.

What positions?

Openside and scrum half.

Disagree, Edinburgh now have the best two Scottish open-sides and Ritchie can do a good job there.

Scrum-half is probably slightly closer but don't think there's a huge difference between SHC & Pyrgos, plus Shiel may turn out to be quality.

For me Barclay is better suited to blindside. He doesn't have the pace and dynamism to match the very best at 7: Cane and Hooper. Watson and Hardie are the best natural opensides available to Scotland and we let one of them go. Yes, we do have cover in Crosbie, Ritchie and Hamilton, plus Barclay can certainly do a job there, but should Watson be unavailable for any reason we won't have the same quality to call upon in that position.

9 is clearer cut, particularly with SH-C being our top goal kicker. I think that just came down to money.

Yeah I see JB playing at 6 for Edinburgh (and probably Scotland) Occasionally filling it at 8 when substitutions/injuries require it.

With the style of play that Scotland have these days, Barclay at 6 is a good option as he's very much half a 6 and half a 7 these days (with a bit of 8 mixed in)

Barclay's worry is going to be if he gets a starters place when everyone is fit. Laidlaw could be the captain so the backrow could be Bradbury/Denton/Watson with Barclay covering all backrow positions from the bench due to his versatility.

I think Toonie will always pick Wilson at 8 ahead of Denton. Wrongly in my view.

All players being fit, I think Toonie would select Barclay at 6, Watson at 7, Wilson at 8 and have one of Denton or Bradbury on the bench.

Wilson is the Mike Brearley of the pack at the moment. It looks much more mentally tough with him. Cotter did not even ask him to kill a bunny, he had already skinned it and started looking for any Russian hooligans in the kebab shop.

Bradbury should be able to be the big carrier we need with him.

With Barclay injured for the start of the season, I would go with Bradbury at 6 in the AIs alongside Watson at 7 and Denton at 8. The bench spot is up for grabs. I would be interested to see how Hardie and Strauss get on next season.

funnyExiledScot wrote:With Barclay injured for the start of the season, I would go with Bradbury at 6 in the AIs alongside Watson at 7 and Denton at 8. The bench spot is up for grabs. I would be interested to see how Hardie and Strauss get on next season.

It would actually (can't believe I'm going to say this) make sense for Wilson to be the bench option as he's played all three positions for Scotland before!

I only say this as it's likely that Toonie will pick Wilson in this team so I'd prefer him to be on the bench!

https://youtu.be/Wu-iju0itGY

Check out the recording of the unbelievable Scottish come back in the world cup sevens in San Francisco.

26-0 down against Kenya and came back to win the game!

We do like to make it hard for ourselves but boy what drama!

Annual Report out today from the SRU

https://twitter.com/Scotlandteam/status/1021344205573185536

http://www.scottishrugby.org/about-us/annual-reports

These reports are always fairly high level, and the finances in particular will be fairly generic and not show much detail about how much ticket income each team makes etc. We usually don't learn much from them!

Perhaps. I like seeing the debt number drop and the annual profit (not an accountant).

Looks to be £3.5m on the bank loan (down £1.5m) and profit of circa £2m after that. The SRU could be debt free and have a new stadium set up for Edinburgh in a few years time.

The big thing this year was to see if the increased success of the national team and the expansion to include SA was bearing fruit.

BigGee wrote:https://youtu.be/Wu-iju0itGY

Check out the recording of the unbelievable Scottish come back in the world cup sevens in San Francisco.

26-0 down against Kenya and came back to win the game!

We do like to make it hard for ourselves but boy what drama!

shame that lightening didn't strike twice and we were nilled by the yanks!

Hazel Sapling wrote:Perhaps. I like seeing the debt number drop and the annual profit (not an accountant).

Looks to be £3.5m on the bank loan (down £1.5m) and profit of circa £2m after that. The SRU could be debt free and have a new stadium set up for Edinburgh in a few years time.

The big thing this year was to see if the increased success of the national team and the expansion to include SA was bearing fruit.

The figures are indeed positive and all moving in the right direction. We still have some way to go to claim operational and administrative competence however!!

For me, Barclay’s best position is still open-side.

I appreciate the argument that he’s not got the dynamism of Hooper or Watson around the park but neither did McCaw, Smith or Williams.

It’s his breakdown work and game understanding that make him such a class act, for me those are the two key elements for a traditional open-side.

I’d argue he doesn’t have the size and power to be a top end blindside. He’s been playing there for club and country because there’s a younger more dynamic player available at open-side with Davis and Watson.

Smith and Williams were not dynamic?? Harsh. Very harsh.

Barclay could do a job at 7, but our currently style of play demands a fast and mobile pack. Having a 6.5 like Barclay on the blindside and an out and out 7 like Watson or Hardie at openside works well. We do lack a proper carrier at 8 though. Hopefully the renaissance of David Denton will continue at Leicester.

If by renaissance you mean he runs into the nearest defender more quickly and drops the ball instantly instead of keeping us hoping for a second or two then I'm sure that the top level coaching he receives at Welford Road will help him. If ,however, you mean magically transform him into a fast dynamic ball carrier with the ball handling skills of a mature Sophia Loren (see the Italia 90 World Cup draw where the seemingly innocent act of pulling spherical objects out of a glass dome reduced a room full of Italian footballers to emotional wrecks) then I don't have much hope for Dozer.


If everyone is fit then Toonie will want Arthur Ashe, The Middle Fagerson or Batman. They have the season ahead to make their claim.


Dozer is so yesterday.

jimbopip wrote:


If everyone is fit then Toonie will want Arthur Ashe, The Middle Fagerson or Batman. They have the season ahead to make their claim.


Dozer is so yesterday.

There is still definitely a place at No.8 up for grabs.

Wilson, we know what he can and can't do, but remains the safe if not spectacular option.

Ashe has proved himself unable to play more than two games without getting injured over the past three years, hard to say if he is international quality or not. He is going to have to have a prolonged run of games and form to push his way into the side me thinks.

Fagerson showed in the summer what we suspected, he is still under powered to be an international 8. At his age he may still grow into that role or maybe not, in which case he will become a 6.5 and probably do very well at that. He is going to struggle to get there for the next WC I think.

I think CDP is out of the equation now, probably Strauss as well, but Dents is still a possibility. He has a limited skill set, but can be effective in the right circumstances, as he proved in the last world cup, where he may well have been our most effective player. If we are going to play him though, we need to play to his strengths and not hope he will be something that he is not.

The other option of course is Bradbury, who is playing well enough to be starting now and could play 8 as well as 6. Maybe not quite as powerful as Dents going forward but a much more rounded skill set. I think he will be in the frame.

6 - Denton
7 - Watson
8 - Bradbury

20 - Wilson