Leinster Branch Rugby - 2018/19

First topic message reminder :

Leinster fans - we're a fickle bunch.

As soon as the club gets any kind of success, the fans all disappear from here being far too busy scouring the shops for the new 'four-star' top and associated scarf, hat, rain-jacket (light weather), heavy parka (for visiting Limerick in winter), alternate dayglo away strip with fur-lined collar (for out West), and up to date badges and paraphernalia for the beemer, car-seat, and nappy-bag 3-in-1 holdall/pram/kiddy thingy.

Despite that, Leo and his merry men, have been busy sizing up the latest batch of academy starlets with a number of them being signed on Development contracts to the senior squad.  The departures last season of a few old hands through injury/retirement was accompanied by two high-profile transfers and a number of academy/development players who didn't make the grade moving on or being released:

Departed
Jordi Murphy to Ulster and Joey Carbery to Munster
Jamie Heaslip, Isa Nacewa and Richardt Strauss retired
Oisin Heffernan to Nottingham
Cathal Marsh and Peadar Timmins released

Incoming
Isa Nacewa's dressing-room seat was still warm when newcomer, Australian international, Joe Tomane, was announced as the new Non-Irish Eligible player for the squad.  He's played with Montpelier for the last couple of seasons, and will look to tie down a regular starting slot at wing or centre during the season.  He's of Samoan/Cook Island descent so won't be included in the "two foreign player" limits in the PRO14 and Heineken Cup.

Promoted from Academy: Jordan Larmour (fullback), Vakh Abdaladze (prop), Caelan Doris (No 8), Josh Murphy and Will Connors (flankers)
Joe Tomane from Montpellier - wing/centre.

Squad and Coaching
That makes a 44-strong senior squad and a further 19 players in the Academy including 8 new players starting their first year.

Unlike the other provinces, Leinster now don't have any SA-born players in their squad with just 2 NIE players - Fardy/Tomane (Aus) and 2 NIQ players Gibson-Park/Lowe (NZ) in their ranks.  Vakh Abdaladze, born in Georgia, moved to Ireland at age 5/6, and encouraged by his father, a former No.8 for Georgia, switched from soccer to rugby, and from centre to loosehead prop, and finally to tighthead.  He made it onto the Ireland U20s squad for the World Cup and was part of the team that beat New Zealand before losing to England in the final alongside Ryan, Porter and Stockdale.

On the coaching front, Leo and Stuart still head the bill, with former Leinster No 10 and highly popular Argentina test player/captain, Felipe Contemponi, replacing the departed Girvan Dempsey as Backs Coach.

Upcoming Fixtures
Leinster play Montauban in France and Newcastle at Energia Park in Donnybrook for their pre-season games, before kicking off their PRO14 Championship title defence with a cross-conference game against Cardiff at the Arms Park on August 31.   They stay in Wales to meet Conference B rivals, Scarlets, in Llanelli, the following week.  Their first home game is against Dragons at the RDS on 15 Sept.  They've only one away game in SA this season, against Kings on Sunday, 4 November.  

The first interpro derby is in Galway against Connacht on 29 Sept, followed a week later by the annual Leinster/Munster knees-up at Lansdowne Road on 6 October - good prep for the first two rounds of the Heineken Cup (it's back!) against Pool One rivals Wasps, or Toulouse or Bath during October.

Developments
Coaching has been a big part of summer activities at the club with the usual summer camps being held for kids of all ages sold out around the province and a particular target being met of developing coaches - men and women's - across the 12 counties in the province.  

In the background, planning permission extension is still underway for the planned demolition and redevelopment of the Anglesea Stand next season which will add another 4,000 approx to the RDS Arena for hosting the various public events (including de rugby) during the year.    It's not known at this stage what that's going to mean for ticket prices, particularly for ST holders in Anglesea Stand, but it's likely there'll be some news on the stadium development towards the back-end of the season in 2019.

With a large number of the senior squad on restricted player management, Leinster are going to find their first few matches tough, particularly away in Wales in rounds 1 & 2.   Looking forward to seeing how they get on.

The Academy squad who normally feature in the British & Irish Cup will now be playing in the new U23 comp set up between IRFU and WRU and some will continue to play for Ireland Sevens squad during the season.

Leinster Senior Squad 2018/19 - 44 players

Hookers: Bryan Byrne, Sean Cronin, James Tracy
Props: Vakh Abdaladze, Michael Bent, Ed Byrne, Peter Dooley, Tadgh Furlong, Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Andrew Porter
Locks: Scott Fardy, Mick Kearney, Ross Molony, Ian Nagle, James Ryan, Devin Toner,
Flankers: Will Connors, Dan Leavy, Josh Murphy, Seán O'Brien, Rhys Ruddock, Josh van der Flier,
Number 8s: Jack Conan, Max Deegan, Caelan Doris
No 9s: Jamison Gibson-Park, Nick McCarthy, Luke McGrath
Out-halves: Ross Byrne, Jonathan Sexton
Midfielders: Tom Daly, Robbie Henshaw, Rory O'Loughlin, Noel Reid, Garry Ringrose
Wings: Adam Byrne, Barry Daly, Dave Kearney, James Lowe, Fergus McFadden, Joe Tomane
Full-backs: Rob Kearney, Jordan Larmour.

Leinster Academy Squad for Hiberno-Welsh U23 Competition and Ireland 7s. - 19 players

Hooker: Ronan Kelleher (year 2) Hooker
Props: Jack Aungier (year 2), Michael Milne (year 1)
Locks: Ryan Baird (year 1), Oisin Dowling (year 2), Jack Dunne (year 1)
Flanker: Scott Penney (year 1)
Scrum-half: Hugh O'Sullivan (year 2), Patrick Patterson (year 1),
Fly-half: Harry Byrne (year 1)
Midfield: Ciaran Frawley (year 2), Gavin Mullin (year 2), Conor O'Brien (year 3), Jimmy O'Brien (year 3), Tommy O'Brien (year 2)
Wings: Hugo Keenan (year 3), Jack Kelly (year 3), Aaron O'Sullivan* (year 1)
Full-back: Michael Silvester (year 1)

The Welsh don't boo the ref, no no no
They just spend their time discussing massive conspiracy theories that show how everyone is in the pocket of the IRFU and it's so so so unfair how everyone is out to get them.
But boo the ref? Never

^^^^ oh dear what a child.

Come on let's rewind, smile and start this whole season again. Everyone leave their boos at the gate and buy the kisses and hugs emoticons at the bars.

Good call.

Most of the remaining Ireland players will be in the squad for this weekend’s game. Only name I’m not sure about is Garry Ringrose. Is he injured?

SecretFly wrote:Come on let's rewind, smile and start this whole season again.  Everyone leave their boos at the gate and buy the kisses and hugs emoticons at the bars.

Screw that, I'm not paying RDS prices for my hugs and kisses.

SecretFly wrote:Come on let's rewind, smile and start this whole season again.  Everyone leave their boos at the gate and buy the kisses and hugs emoticons at the bars.

Let's discuss Leinster's ridiculous depth... so good that they give their players to the other provincial teams.

Who's Leinster's best back-row if all are injury free?

mikey_dragon wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Come on let's rewind, smile and start this whole season again.  Everyone leave their boos at the gate and buy the kisses and hugs emoticons at the bars.

Let's discuss Leinster's ridiculous depth... so good that they give their players to the other provincial teams.

Who's Leinster's best back-row if all are injury free?

Superman, Batman and the Hulk

mikey_dragon wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Come on let's rewind, smile and start this whole season again.  Everyone leave their boos at the gate and buy the kisses and hugs emoticons at the bars.

Let's discuss Leinster's ridiculous depth... so good that they give their players to the other provincial teams.

It's funny how the publicity around that goes sometimes.  

The first media word on Joey Carbery was that he was kicking and screaming, resisting ALL attempts to coax him out of Leinster.  "I don't give a f**k if Johnny is in front of me and I only get bits of games here and there.  I love me Province, it's shiny and it wins lots of things and I like the expensive food in D4, so I'm staying!!!"
The second media swing at it was that the pressure police weren't listening to Joey and that they wanted him to go rustic somewhere.... maybe Ulster (less rustic) and maybe Munster (spuds, cabbage and cows)  City boy Joey it was said was still panicking...."Cows???  Without muzzles????  They'll kill me.  Don't you get rabies from angry cows or something??"
Then all of a sudden, the media confided that Joey wanted the hell out of Leinster.  It was holding him back.  He was better than Loop moves.  He was sexy and had snake like skills so his natural home was probably Munster all along.
Most recent shout from the media in big letters was the declaration that Joey stated he will never go back to Leinster.  The love affair was over completely.  And I thought that was quick to be so final about it and probably he deserved a court martial for treason!
So I looked up the interview where he callously said Leinster was no longer in his heart.  And I read him saying (I paraphrase) "I don't want to be jumping around from Province to Province so I'm going to stick with Munster for now"

The Media............. no wonder Trump calls them fake.  Oh and Joey missed an execution squad by a whisker.

Carbery with his first start for Munster goes over for his first try and converts.

Always knew there was something dodgy about that bloke....

mikey_dragon wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Come on let's rewind, smile and start this whole season again.  Everyone leave their boos at the gate and buy the kisses and hugs emoticons at the bars.

Let's discuss Leinster's ridiculous depth... so good that they give their players to the other provincial teams.

Who's Leinster's best back-row if all are injury free?

Not that it needs reminding but about 10 years ago it was in the other direction. That and a few decent foreigners cos the ladyboys couldn’t find a pair between the whole privately ( with govt intervention) educated bunch of langers ever.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Come on let's rewind, smile and start this whole season again.  Everyone leave their boos at the gate and buy the kisses and hugs emoticons at the bars.

Let's discuss Leinster's ridiculous depth... so good that they give their players to the other provincial teams.

Who's Leinster's best back-row if all are injury free?

Not that it needs reminding but about 10 years ago it was in the other direction. That and a few decent foreigners cos the ladyboys couldn’t find a pair between the whole privately ( with govt intervention) educated bunch of langers ever.

Whereas the Munster langers were all scraped off the end of a stick out the back of Madam Maisie’s, I presume?

Ah well it was always amusing to think that the myth perpetrated by the good burghers of limerick about rugby bring the ordinary mans game. As if the mothers out the Ennis road would think their little darlings in st munchins were ordinary working class joes. Another cowpat story.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Ah well it was always amusing to think that the myth perpetrated by the good burghers of limerick about rugby bring the ordinary mans game. As if the mothers out the Ennis road would think their little darlings in st munchins were ordinary working class joes. Another cowpat story.

True enough. Btw, have you heard any more on Conor Murray’s “injury”?

mikey_dragon wrote:

St John The Enforcer wrote:Give it but can't take it eh? Never a good sign.

If you come trolling on another team's thread you should be thicker skinned.

"The French" don't play in this league. and of "The Irish" that do I'd say Ulster are the worst for booing the ref.

I wasn’t trolling, I commented about an observation I made. Only the Irish in this league carry themselves with this attitude. I agree that it’s ulster, and if they’re the worst of the Irish then they’re the worst in the league. I wouldn’t mind if we had a regular home crowd as big and as vocal, so long as they kept it within reason (refraining from racism, homophobic chants, etc). I also doubt they’d be in denial like you.

Not sure what I am supposed to be in denial about? I have denied absolutely nothing. I just thought it was funny that a Dragons fan would think the ref could not be influenced by the fans booing every decision.

I never said that it was a good or a bad thing.

St John The Enforcer wrote:

Not sure what I am supposed to be in denial about? I have denied absolutely nothing. I just thought it was funny that a Dragons fan would think the ref could not be influenced by the fans booing every decision.
[/quote]

BS. Is it really worth my time if you're struggling with comprehension, or are you going to get someone to help you out?

If it's not worth your time then why bother with the big girl's blouse passive aggressive reply then?

If I have misunderstood your original post as trolling (which i remain unconvinced of) then you have obviously misunderstood mine as denying something. Love to know what you think I'm denying as I could then either agree with you or call bs

Pot Hale wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Ah well it was always amusing to think that the myth perpetrated by the good burghers of limerick about rugby bring the ordinary mans game. As if the mothers out the Ennis road would think their little darlings in st munchins were ordinary working class joes. Another cowpat story.

True enough.  Btw, have you heard any more on Conor Murray’s “injury”?

Eh no actually. Lots of speculation apparently it’s a neck issue ( whatever that means). Sin e might have more info. It’s all a bit strange and while I have heard rumours it would be pure speculation at this stage.

St John The Enforcer wrote:If it's not worth your time then why bother with the big girl's blouse passive aggressive reply then?

If I have misunderstood your original post as trolling (which i remain unconvinced of) then you have obviously misunderstood mine as denying something. Love to know what you think I'm denying as I could then either agree with you or call bs

Just heed the response and get someone to help you out then as you did misunderstand it.

Come on let's rewind, smile and start this whole season again. Everyone leave their boos at the gate...yada, yada, yada....


I think it's going to be a Lonnnnnggg year.

Report in today’s Irish Times that Nick McCarthy will transfer to Munster next season as Gibson Park will become IQ and no longer be restricted in his playing time for Leinster. Leinster has other academy recruits coming through to replenish their stocks - Hugh O’Sullivan and Paddy Paterson.

Munster then would have Murray, Duncan (blinder) Williams, James (fairly disappointing) Hart, and McCarthy as Murray’s understudy. Alby Mathewson is a medical joker on a 3 month contract at Munster though there has been some talk of him staying for the season. Perhaps not now. Neil Cronin was promoted from Garryowen for this season but may not last. And one of Hart or Williams may not be retained by Munster for next season.

It would be an interesting move as it continues players being moved around the provinces rather than being lost to an overseas club. For next season, McGrath could be traveling to Japan which would leave Gibson Park as the only senior experienced scrumhalf. Or perhaps McGrath may not travel in which case, they would be relatively well covered if O’Sullivan becomes third-choice.

Cullen can expect Nucifora to keep nibbling away at his stocks as other development or academy players with not much game time become useful to other provinces.

Foreign-born/NIQ player numbers in Irish rugby have continued to fall for the third or fourth year in a row, and all the signs are that it will continue into the 2019/20 season with some players reaching end of contracts and/or age/retirement looming.

As a by the by, congrats to Leinster A on winning the inaugural Celtic Cup at the weekend beating Scarlets A 15-8 with hooker, Ronan Kelleher, scoring twice to allow Leinster lift the cup.  Another Seán Cronin in the making?

Hopefully, next season will see the Scottish teams join in and the comp can run longer into the season to provide more game time for the fringe squad and academy players.

Leinster team:
Jack Kelly (capt); Adam Byrne, Jimmy O'Brien, Tom Daly, Michael Silvester; Ciaran Frawley, Hugh O'Sullivan;

Peter Dooley, Ronan Kelleher, Vakh Abdaladze, Ross Molony, Mick Kearney, Josh Murphy, Scott Penny, Caelan Doris.

Replacements used: Ed Byrne for Dooley, Bryan Byrne for Kelleher (both half-time), Patrick Patterson for O'Sulivan (70 mins), Oisin Dowling for Doris (76), Harry Byrne for Frawley (77). Not used: Jack Aungier, Ryan Baird, David Hawkshaw.

Leinster academy players knocking it out of the park at the RDS tonight along with some of the second stringers led by Scott Fardy.  Hugh O’Sullivan replaced Nick McCarthy at scrum half and is surviving well.   Frawley at 10 combining well with Reid and Conor O’Brien in midfield.  Josh Murphy having a stormer in the backrow along with Scott Penny who got his maiden try.

Defence has been top class so far in holding Ospreys scoreless.  

38-0 to the men in blue after 60 mins.  Byrne and Lowe lending senior support on the wings.

COB replaced by JOB - Jimmy O’Brien.

Abdaladze having a great game and makes a great pass for Ed Byrne to pass to put Brian Byrne over the line.   Frawley converts again.

This is a massacre - 52-0 after 75 mins.

Frawley deservedly man of the match.

Ospreys get a consolation try at the death.

52-7 at the finish.

Well done the kids.

I hate that the stars weren't playing tonight....................... pathetic Pro14 does it again...

SecretFly wrote:I hate that the stars weren't playing tonight....................... pathetic Pro14 does it again...

More of those bloody kids playing again tomorrow. Don't switch the telly on whatever you do.....

15 Hugo Keenan - 22 year old Ireland's Sevens player and in third year of academy as a wing. Got his starting senior cap last week
14 Adam Byrne -
13 Jimmy O'Brien - 21 year old sevens player in his third year at academy. First senior start.
12 Conor O'Brien - COB moves inside for JOB but no sign of SOB
11. Dave Kearney
10. Ross Byrne
9. Gibson-Park
8, Caelan Doris - last years U20s captain who at 20 got a senior contract this season after promotion from the academy.
7. Scott Penny - he's only 19 and a first year academy player. He played last week like he'd been around for a few years. The back row production line keeps on giving.
6. J Murphy - no, not the Barcelona-born guy, Josh Murphy, at 23 and 11 senior caps, he's almost a veteran in this side.
5. Scott Fardy or Grandad as the the kids call him
4. Ross Molony
3. Michael Bent -
2. James Tracy
1. Ed Byrne - part of the rival clan to the O'Briens for making commentator lives a joy/misery during games.

On the bench, Dooley, Porter, and Mick Kearney are more familiar squad names along with 2 half-back newbies
Out half, Ciaran Frawley - a second year academy player, and at 20 years of age, could have people saying 'Joey who' by the end of next season. 5 senior appearances so far.
Scrum-half, Patrick Patterson - Not sure if the first year academy recruit has started shaving yet, but if Stuart thinks he's good to go.....
Utility, Tom Daly, another sevens player has 11 appearances to his name, but is lively.

52-10 to Fardy’s Kids.

Some over excited stuff from the O’Brien duo trying too many 50/50 passes and moves breaking down. Still Jimmy O’Brien settled himself and got on the end of a couple of moves to finish with two tries in the corner. Scott Penny looks tiny for a modern day 7 but was rewarded with a try for his industry.

Even Grandad Fardy got in on the act as young Patterson found him waiting on the wing to stroll over.

I hope Van Graan wasn't watching!

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I hope Van Graan wasn't watching!

Whatever for.....?

Job done at Bath. Not pretty and Bath were superb despite missing a good few first teamers. But the four points extracted by Leinster.
Toulouse still in charge of this group if they keep winning. Can Wasps pull a performance out of the bag at home? Unlikely and Toulouse could walk away with five points stretching their margin to 3 to top the group.

Leinster need to hit their straps at Lansdowne next weekend and get a bonus point win or they could possibly be out.

Pot Hale wrote:Job done at Bath.  Not pretty and Bath were superb despite missing a good few first teamers. But the four points extracted by Leinster.
Toulouse still in charge of this group if they keep winning. Can Wasps pull a performance out of the bag at home?  Unlikely and Toulouse could walk away with five points stretching their margin to 3 to top the group.

Leinster need to hit their straps at Lansdowne next weekend and get a bonus point win or they could possibly be out.  

Bath were superb in defense to be fair and they really made it a nightmare at the breakdown. They can also feel aggrieved with that intercept, was advantage really over? Anyway job done for Leinster, you always get these scrappy away games in the group stages and Leinster have become very good at squeezing every match point they can out of them.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Job done at Bath.  Not pretty and Bath were superb despite missing a good few first teamers. But the four points extracted by Leinster.
Toulouse still in charge of this group if they keep winning. Can Wasps pull a performance out of the bag at home?  Unlikely and Toulouse could walk away with five points stretching their margin to 3 to top the group.

Leinster need to hit their straps at Lansdowne next weekend and get a bonus point win or they could possibly be out.  

Bath were superb in defense to be fair and they really made it a nightmare at the breakdown. They can also feel aggrieved with that intercept, was advantage really over? Anyway job done for Leinster, you always get these scrappy away games in the group stages and Leinster have become very good at squeezing every match point they can out of them.

Yep. Girv did a number on them.
Next week should be interesting if Bath are still interested or motivated.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Job done at Bath.  Not pretty and Bath were superb despite missing a good few first teamers. But the four points extracted by Leinster.
Toulouse still in charge of this group if they keep winning. Can Wasps pull a performance out of the bag at home?  Unlikely and Toulouse could walk away with five points stretching their margin to 3 to top the group.

Leinster need to hit their straps at Lansdowne next weekend and get a bonus point win or they could possibly be out.  

Bath were superb in defense to be fair and they really made it a nightmare at the breakdown. They can also feel aggrieved with that intercept, was advantage really over? Anyway job done for Leinster, you always get these scrappy away games in the group stages and Leinster have become very good at squeezing every match point they can out of them.

If you have the opportunity to throw a pass whilst under no pressure knock-on advantage is over in my view. It was just an idiotic pass. They were unfortunate in a few other decisions - in particular with Leinster players clearly off their feet getting penalties rather than being penalised.

The problem was too few Munster lads on that Leinster team.....

Exiledinborders wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Job done at Bath.  Not pretty and Bath were superb despite missing a good few first teamers. But the four points extracted by Leinster.
Toulouse still in charge of this group if they keep winning. Can Wasps pull a performance out of the bag at home?  Unlikely and Toulouse could walk away with five points stretching their margin to 3 to top the group.

Leinster need to hit their straps at Lansdowne next weekend and get a bonus point win or they could possibly be out.  

Bath were superb in defense to be fair and they really made it a nightmare at the breakdown. They can also feel aggrieved with that intercept, was advantage really over? Anyway job done for Leinster, you always get these scrappy away games in the group stages and Leinster have become very good at squeezing every match point they can out of them.

If you have the opportunity to throw a pass whilst under no pressure knock-on advantage is over in my view. It was just an idiotic pass. They were unfortunate in a few other decisions - in particular with Leinster players clearly off their feet getting penalties rather than being penalised.

The issue was yet again inconsistency ... compare the advantage given to Leinster in the first half when they had clean ball and opportunity to throw a pass to 3 players outside the ball carrier and then chip-kicked it away while under no pressure, but because Bath got the ball the ref said they didn't get an advantage ... BOD also said it was a strange call. Wasn't that the same ref that let Connaught take a line-out last year after kicking a pen to touch when time was up and go on to beat Wasps - before the law change?

Heaf wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Job done at Bath.  Not pretty and Bath were superb despite missing a good few first teamers. But the four points extracted by Leinster.
Toulouse still in charge of this group if they keep winning. Can Wasps pull a performance out of the bag at home?  Unlikely and Toulouse could walk away with five points stretching their margin to 3 to top the group.

Leinster need to hit their straps at Lansdowne next weekend and get a bonus point win or they could possibly be out.  

Bath were superb in defense to be fair and they really made it a nightmare at the breakdown. They can also feel aggrieved with that intercept, was advantage really over? Anyway job done for Leinster, you always get these scrappy away games in the group stages and Leinster have become very good at squeezing every match point they can out of them.

If you have the opportunity to throw a pass whilst under no pressure knock-on advantage is over in my view. It was just an idiotic pass. They were unfortunate in a few other decisions - in particular with Leinster players clearly off their feet getting penalties rather than being penalised.

The issue was yet again inconsistency ... compare the advantage given to Leinster in the first half when they had clean ball and opportunity to throw a pass to 3 players outside the ball carrier and then chip-kicked it away while under no pressure, but because Bath got the ball the ref said they didn't get an advantage ... BOD also said it was a strange call.  Wasn't that the same ref that let Connaught take a line-out last year after kicking a pen to touch when time was up and go on to beat Wasps - before the law change?

Who? Think it was the assistant referee, Mathieu Raynal, who took over for last few minutes in the Connacht match after Garces got injured. Muldoon asked if he could take the lineout.

Ah you could be right about the ref ... I know Muldoon asked so not his fault - ref should have known to say no as time was up ...

Pot Hale wrote:  Muldoon asked if he could take the lineout.

Yeah, I remember that. The ref dismissed the notion and said that he felt like taking it himself. Scandalous stuff really.

Heaf wrote:Ah you could be right about the ref ... I know Muldoon asked so not his fault - ref should have known to say no as time was up ...

Time was up as the ref blew the whistle for the penalty.   Before they kicked for touch, Muldoon indicates and asks Raynal if they can kick to corner, the ref says no initially and then Muldoon says but under the new rules you can kick and take lineout and ref agrees.  Then the kick is taken into touch with the Wasps players visibly protesting.

If the ref had said no, Connacht still had option for a scrum or simply re-starting play.

Here's the clip:

When's the Leinster bubble gonna burst? It happens to all of the European greats - Leicester, Munster, Toulouse... Dragons!

I'm not willing it to happen but it does seem to happen to everyone eventually. Pretty hard to predict I guess. How long do you see the Leinster reign as the Kings of Everything?

The Oracle wrote:When's the Leinster bubble gonna burst?  It happens to all of the European greats - Leicester, Munster, Toulouse... Dragons!  

I'm not willing it to happen but it does seem to happen to everyone eventually.  Pretty hard to predict I guess.  How long do you see the Leinster reign as the Kings of Everything?  

This year. I don't think they'll win either the PRO14 Championship or in Europe. Henshaw is out for 8 weeks - covering the last three pool games. Sexton has a calf injury. Jack McGrath is out for six weeks. Nick McCarthy is out for 12 weeks so Gibson-Park will have to take one of the two Aus/NZ slots so either Fardy or Lowe will have to miss out.

They're going to need full metal jacket for the Toulouse game and it doesn't look like they'll have it.

Pot Hale wrote:

The Oracle wrote:When's the Leinster bubble gonna burst?  It happens to all of the European greats - Leicester, Munster, Toulouse... Dragons!  

I'm not willing it to happen but it does seem to happen to everyone eventually.  Pretty hard to predict I guess.  How long do you see the Leinster reign as the Kings of Everything?  

This year.   I don't think they'll win either the PRO14 Championship or in Europe.  Henshaw is out for 8 weeks - covering the last three pool games.   Sexton has a calf injury.  Jack McGrath is out for six weeks. Nick McCarthy is out for 12 weeks so Gibson-Park will have to take one of the two Aus/NZ slots so either Fardy or Lowe will have to miss out.

They're going to need full metal jacket for the Toulouse game and it doesn't look like they'll have it.  

I think you'll do fine this season. Not sure why those at the top tend to topple eventually. Numerous reasons I suppose. But often it's when ideas get old and tired and/or when players and coaches get poached to bigger and better things (although not sure what is bigger or better than Leinster currently. International perhaps?). Leinster seem to have had a good run of coaches who have all brought their own ideas but still been successful with the province. Sometimes coaches are just not the right fit and a club has a few years out of the top spot. But Cheika, Schmidt, Cullen/Lancaster have all done well. There's talk of Lancaster moving on - could changes in the coaching be the thing that knocks Leinster off eventually?

The Oracle wrote:When's the Leinster bubble gonna burst?  It happens to all of the European greats - Leicester, Munster, Toulouse... Dragons!  

I'm not willing it to happen but it does seem to happen to everyone eventually.  Pretty hard to predict I guess.  How long do you see the Leinster reign as the Kings of Everything?  

How long has Leinster been there or thereabouts though?  

Yes - dips and rises exist.  Eras come and go, of course.  But I think maybe too much was made about Leinster's first published dip when the new rules on European cup qualifications and 'ownership' started.  Indeed, most of us in Pro12 (as it was then) felt that was curtains for most Pro12 teams as it seemed designed specifically to weaken the hand we (all of us in Pro12)were dealt - or in the words of pro-change fans, equalise the 'meritocracy'.
And yes, Irish Provinces had their inevitable fall off and Toulon and Saracens became the big boys.  To be expected.  Their whole systems didn't change or miss a beat.  Pro12 was modified, a change of tactics and long term strategies were needed.  And that of course needed time.

I'm not sure Leinster will retain the title this year.  I think such a team with so many Internationals has a lot of pressure on it next year and focus may drift enough in the players minds to lessen the potency of the Province.  We'll see.  

But I think the structures (based so heavily on producing home grown high quality players dropping into the first team ready to play from the start) are good enough to endure for a number of years yet.  And I believe that bubble as you alluded to Oracle, is a continuing one from the time and even before their first European win.  It's been steady progress all the way.  The only blip has been that European Cup rule change period.  They needed to adapt with military style planning and I think the evidence is that they certainly have.

I guess mine was a wider comment about sustainability - how long can sides sustain that top level? Will Leinster go the same way as the others or will they 'do an All Blacks' and stay at the top now for ever?! All of the kings of Europe seemed unstoppable but each one fell down for one reason or another. Some spectacularly so. Others (like Munster perhaps) just fading to 'very good' rather than 'poor', but still challenging. Certainly Leinster seem to have the structures in place to allow them to carry on dominating - their academy and home grown talent is immense.

Don't think Leinster will Dominate - too many good sides in Europe.  Sometimes you have a mood in camp and you have players fit enough for long enough to carry out the requirements of the mood.

I think Leinster will be up there in the winners sphere for a few years yet.  That's all I'd predict.  One more win to put a unique five stars up there on the shirt would be a nice point to relax expectations for a while.

Indeed, maybe that's the crux.  Maybe a side that believes too much in its own infallibility is the kind of side that has the big highs and then goes down fast and has trouble getting up again.  So, to go with that thought, I sense the players and the coaches at Leinster are serious about their ability and train hard enough to put themselves in the picture but they are grounded, and I've never known a Leinster team to go into any competition strutting with attitude and supposing they're going to take down all comers in their path.  The language is always one of caution and respecting the team they are about to play.  Always playing down the expectations rather than the opposite.

Pot Hale wrote:

Heaf wrote:Ah you could be right about the ref ... I know Muldoon asked so not his fault - ref should have known to say no as time was up ...

Time was up as the ref blew the whistle for the penalty.   Before they kicked for touch, Muldoon indicates and asks Raynal if they can kick to corner, the ref says no initially and then Muldoon says but under the new rules you can kick and take lineout and ref agrees.  Then the kick is taken into touch with the Wasps players visibly protesting.

If the ref had said no, Connacht still had option for a scrum or simply re-starting play.

Here's the clip:

Yes I know he asked before he kicked but the new laws hadn't come in at that point ... the line-out should only have been allowed if the ref thought he'd blown before time up (and it was close either way), but it doesn't sound like he did think that but more like he got 'spoofed' by Muldoon.  Of course they could have re-started play but from a far less advantageous position, but that wasn't my point. It was more about the ref not understanding the laws that were in force at the time and thinking they were playing under the new laws that hadn't come in yet.

The Oracle wrote:I guess mine was a wider comment about sustainability - how long can sides sustain that top level?  Will  Leinster go the same way as the others or will they 'do an All Blacks' and stay at the top now for ever?!  All of the kings of Europe seemed unstoppable but each one fell down for one reason or another.  Some spectacularly so.  Others (like Munster perhaps) just fading to 'very good' rather than 'poor', but still challenging.  Certainly Leinster seem to have the structures in place to allow them to carry on dominating - their academy and home grown talent is immense.  

Besides, it's nice in Dublin.

Heaf wrote:Yes I know he asked before he kicked but the new laws hadn't come in at that point ... the line-out should only have been allowed if the ref thought he'd blown before time up (and it was close either way), but it doesn't sound like he did think that but more like he got 'spoofed' by Muldoon.  Of course they could have re-started play but from a far less advantageous position, but that wasn't my point. It was more about the ref not understanding the laws that were in force at the time and thinking they were playing under the new laws that hadn't come in yet.

Interesting that the commentators thought the new directives had already been activated - another example of the ineptitude of World Rugby?