Edinburgh vs Benetton Rugby Pro14 Fri 28/09

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Officials:
Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU)
AR1: Elgan Williams (WRU), AR2: Keith Allen (SRU)
TMO: Andrew McMenemy (SRU)


Form - Both teams not exactly setting the heather alight

Last result - Benetton 13 - 24 Edinburgh

Last season this is the game that Cockers referred to as a game we should have won and was a turning point.  I really hope the team have learnt the lessons and get the win.  Edinburgh need to start getting some points on the board, I can't be doing with Jimbo taking the piss anymore about Edinburgh being the worst team in the league.

We have 4 tries - all from the backs! 

Edinburgh seem to have cottoned on that it is a 15 man game!

Another good try

FFS Treviso score immediately again.

We need to A) make sure we don't lose this and B) try and stop Treviso taking any points from this game

Looks like a try. VDM should have held him - poor defence again.

Good try Benetton. Hat trick for the winger

Good try Benetton. Hat trick for the winger

I hate being an Edinburgh fan sometimes!

McNally just went off on the trolley. That is not good

Apparently not McInally, was Mekenzie.

Cherry on in the back row

I'm gonna be watching the last 15 from behind the sofa - we've lost all shape and treviso have been dangerous all night

Here we go 

Again Owens immediately penalises a maul collapse!! We didn't get anywhere

Here we go.

I've got to say the momentum swung when we made 4 changes - i dont think that was the right decision from the coaches. Especially taking Matt Scott off who was giving us a great platform.

I take it back - Gilchrist's was definitely a pen.

Edinburgh scrum unsurprisingly dominated with Edinburgh a man down and no 2nd rows

Not sure a scrum helps us

Ooft that's a big call!

Well I would have been delighted with 5 points before the game but that was just awful.

Credit to Treviso - much the better team after 30 minutes.

Get out of jail card played there by Edinburgh. Hardly deserved that in the end. Good job the Italians can't kick!

How long can one wait to get the ball out of play after a penalty?

Absurd finish of the game.

Benetton are a half decent side now though. They will give a few sides a fright if they play like that

Feel for Treviso, but after the Ulster result Edinburgh probably deserved a get out of jail free card themselves.

McKinley cost Treviso that game, as well as the missed place kicks his decision to chip with Treviso's last piece of possession was pure folly. That needed to be kept in the hands.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Bit harsh TJ, especially given he only was responsible for one of the penalties - Bradbury and Mcinally the others!

 I thought Gilcrest was at least one of the others - and second half he pulled another maul down almost losing us the game.

I really do not see what anyone sees in Gilcrest.  He is ineffective on the field - Like Kellock without the leadership in his observation of rucks  ;-)  and everytime I see him play he gives away hatfuls of penalties.

I really want him dropped for good.  I'd be more than happy if he never played for Edinburgh or Scotland again.

Questions have to be asked about our fitness given we've faded badly on every game so far. This is despite lots of positive noises come out from Edinburgh about the new S&C coach.

I expect it is self belief rather than fitness that is the issue. Not having that winning feeling just causes self doubt and even the games they have won have hardly been convincing this season.

Hard to say if getting the 5 points in that way will make them feel any more confident going into the next game.

They also need to remember how to tackle, it is not optional!

It's been like watching the old Edinburgh of 10 years ago!

I suspect they'll be pretty deflated after that and the performance certainly didn't answer any questions about this Edinburgh team.

We need to level out the peaks and troughs in our performances over the 80 - currently when we're on it we look like a top class team. Problem is when we're not on it we look like we just met in the carpark, there's no consistency just now.

Sounds worryingly similar to the pattern of the Connacht game. Am in Portugal this week so "sadly" couldn't be there.

I think BigGee is right about the mental fragility side of things. We know the team are capable, we scored 4 tonight, but we lack the intensity and belief of the top sides like Leinster. What's worse is that opponents will know this, and I think the Cheetahs will fancy Murrayfield if those pacy backs can run at those soft Edinburgh shoulders. Kinghorn is starting to worry me at 15. A bit too flimsy, despite the Great attacking potential.

I think Bennetons comeback was three issues - the subs and injuries robbed Edinburgh of cohension, Gilcrests stupidity in giving away pens and getting sent off and some very good play from Benneton

I was watching the Cardiff game, is it worth watching this game through on catch up do you think or best avoided?

Best avoided - the highlights will show you all the tries and there wasnt a lot to write home about apart from that!

Gilcrest 3 pens and a YC

I wouldn't mind so much if it was trying to steal ball or was a potent force  but two mauls pulled down and one maul blatantly in the side right in front of the ref.  Its his usual tally.  He has single-handedly lost us games before and came very close this time to costing us the game.

http://edinburghrugby.org/match-report/edinburgh-rugby-vs-benetton-rugby-fri-28092018-1935

Good to see Cockerill isn't sugar coating our performance. The outside backs in particular really need to work on their defence - as incredible as VDM is going forwards he's beginning to make Visser look like Bakkies Botha in comparison!

Positives?
Is Hickey the 10 we have needed for about 5 years?  He looked very good I thought.  Calm, controlled, good passer, good kicks both from hand and the tee.
Deans - made some really nice breaks.  Van de Merve - deadly in attack and very hard to put down.  Watson - continuing where he left off last season.  Nellie the scrumephant playing well.  the backs actually got some decent Ball.  Pyrgos - a competent display.  Does this mean we actually have some proper half backs now?

there ia decent rugby team trying to appear from the Edinburgh dross

TJ wrote:Positives?

I thought Nel was back close to his best, scrummaging wise. He had been a bit underwhelming so far this season.

Our scrum dominated with the starting 3, and Owens was far too linient with Treviso (something he even admitted). Sutherland made good impact off the bench and was one of our best carriers when he was on


Watson and Mata were everywhere, but Bradbury had a quiet game and was the right choice to sub off for Ritchie.

The 2nd rows were disappointing and could do with rotating as theyve played a lot - McKenzie being injured won't help going forward but hopefully Charmichael will be back soon.

Not completely sure about pyrgos either - he's a fully competent 9 but is lacking spark. We have no flair players in that backline - all big strong runners, Kinghorn has the X-factor - but I think we need someone like Hoyland and Graham to step up to the plate and offer something different.

I seriously hope Cockers doesn't think the one out pass and run attack is going to work against Montpellier and Toulon - we'll get nowhere against those beasts.

I think Callum Macrae and Roddy Grant need to get their act together. The forwards appear to not be as imposing as last year, and defensively the team appear to have lost focus.
Maybe with the arrival of Shaun Wane from RL in the national set up, with his defensive expertise will filter into the 2 regions. Both Edinburgh and Glasgow's defences have been weak this season.

Chris Dean also had a decent game and has probably earned the 13 shirt going forward. I've always liked him as a player - if he continues to develop he may be a dark horse for the world cup depending on injuries at the time. His ability to cover 12 and 13 is a real bonus.

Socino continues to offer nothing off the bench - would much rather have JJ. Was a strange decision to bring him on so early for Scott and that contributed to the swing in momentum.

We seem to be going through a bit of a phase of when one part of our game picks up another falls off. Some of the backline play in attack was looking much better last night but our defense went to pot. Hopefully we can start to get all of the areas of our game to click at once and we might start too actually see the performances this group of players are actually capable of!

Anglobraveheart wrote:I think Callum Macrae and Roddy Grant need to get their act together. The forwards appear to not be as imposing as last year, and defensively the team appear to have lost focus.
Maybe with the arrival of Shaun Wane from RL in the national set up, with his defensive expertise will filter into the 2 regions. Both Edinburgh and Glasgow's defences have been weak this season.

To be fair to Roddy he is still an apprentice coach - Cockerill is very much in charge of the forwards.

Our defence has strange parallels with our attack - we're very physical and committed in close quarters but when someone does something more adventurous we struggle to contain it. Our success rate at defending in our own 22 is incredibly low this season too - that's got to improve as teams are scoring pretty easily.

I fear what the cheetahs will do to us out wide next week. I'd actually bring in Tom Brown for Fife - he may not have the same attacking threat as the others but he is fearless and clever in defence, and we've got to be better out wide defensively.

So when do Edinburgh fans start using the #GetCockerillOUT?

Not for a good while yet.  Not a great start to the season but given last year as our best for a long time and we have been able to find some pride in our team Cockers has a lot of slack yet.

Anyone want to enlighten me as to what the coaches see in gilcrest?  Argue the cse he is worth having on the pitch?

Scotland were dreadful in their own 22 for a long time, the regional sides seem to have replicated that.
We need to find the grit and organisation at Glasgow and Edinburgh to close the opposition down.

For me, I have never seen anything in Gilchrist to suggest he was an assett at international level. Unfortunately I can only recall his brain fart penalty give-aways. Usually when we least need them.
I do not recall him having a 'good' game that I could be positive about. He's anonymous or a liability.

Thats how I see him.  I just don't get it.

Gilchrist is certainly a marmite player with people on here but I think the comments are a bit unfair. After a few years of average performances he was transformed last season under Cockerill and had a big season. He was also fantastic for Scotland in the 6N and collosal against France and England. Some people have short memories! 

He's had a quiet season so far and was poor last night, but let's not forget that several top class, well respected coaches obviously rate him. He's got to up his performances this season though as they're back to pre-Cockerill levels of average.

Gilchrist is the most physically powerful lock available to Scotland. I've never felt he quite punches his weight, but he remains a important player for Edinburgh and Scotland.

Some of the comments regarding Gilchrist on the thread are nonsense. I missed the game on Friday, so can't comment on his performance, but I do rate him highly. For me he starts for Edinburgh and benches for Scotland (behind the Gray brothers).

Gilchrist is the most physically powerful lock available to Scotland

More than the gray brothers?

I have never seen him make any contribution worth his penalty count.  I have seen him cost Edinburgh and Scotland games with his penalties
something is weird tho 'cos as you say the coaches rate him but to me he is Kellock lite with added penalties.  fortunatly I ain't picking the teams ;-)

Which Scotland games did Gilchrist cost us TJ?

Also, I don't class pulling down a maul to prevent a try as being a stupid penalty to give away - it is a collective failing from the entire pack who were not able to contain the maul so he tried to stop it illegally. This happens all the time in rugby, he just wasn't overly subtle in doing it.

Our maul defence has been poor this season and if you have a bad maul defence you'll inevitably see yellow cards.

A stupid penalty would be things like doing that on the halfway line, knocking the ball out of the 9's hands, giving away a ruck penalty when the opposition are trying to get out their own 22 etc etc