Fury v Wilder

First topic message reminder :

Firstly, I didn't think this would happen. Not at all. Even when Warren announced it.

Looks like it might, so let's talk.

Can Fury win? With two fights in 3 years, the weight, the lack of a real trainer -- it is all against him.

I will say this. Prime Fury can outbox Wilder. But I rewatched Fury's last effort and that version of him cannot win.

Where will his skillset be by December?

Who wins?

... he got up because he is the new Ali and was emulating the last round of Ali Frazier 1

Marky wrote:Draw. Both men walk away laughing, much richer, both still undefeated and with more money to make from a summer rematch in the UK, while Joshua has to make to with the winner of Whyte/Chisora.

If you support my thought process, it's a 25/1 shot...

I'm just gutted I only had 50p on it

Often say the problem with Boxing is the scoring system..

Fact is I only need to edge 9 minutes and knock you down in two other rounds and I get a draw..

You can pretty much dominate the other 27 mins and there is no robbery pertaining to the rules.

Did Fury deserve to win yes....Was he robbed.. No.

I don't think it was a robbery as such as the scoring is relatively subjective, but I had Fury by 4 rounds even after the knockdowns, Wilder was poor although Fury made him look poor.

I think the majority of fans had Fury up.

milkyboy wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ali was around 205 against Cooper....Probably could of made Cruiser if pushed....

but I will give you that.....

Hope your Wife and my kids are doing well......

The wife’s fine but the kids are ugly and stupid.

Hope all is good with the red baroness and team trussy

Good stuff

10-8 rounds are a problem for me..

Thought Fury had the better of the 9th apart from the knockdown..10-8 always seems harsh when that happens..

Personally you could have a case for Fury winning 10-2 in rounds...

But I had..

Wilder sneaking 1..2...7....and chuck in 9 and 12.

But Fury for me was the better man on the night.

Have a good day..

I don't like either fighter but feel that it was Fury's fight. The look on Wilder's face in the final round when Fury got back up was priceless.

Joshua won't get a look at either of them for at least a year now as they'll be tied up in rematch land. AJ will fight his mandatories, the other two will deride him as a bum. And so it shall continue.

kingraf wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Round nine was incredible

Really tight going into the final two

Two rounds later, one of which was a 10-8 Wilder round...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Boxing is so rigged man

Boxing judges have essentially become Vince McMahon - ignoring what’s in front of their eyes and just trying however they can to get the best result which will make most money. A real shame.

Like Kingraf and the British judge, I also scored it 113-113. The rounds Fury won were mostly clear ones, while Wilder was very canny and often nicked rounds. It certainly wasn't a robbery, and not even close to being a Lewis-Holyfield type decision. I fail to see, however, how it could be scored 115-111 to Wilder.

At times, Fury was putting on a masterclass. Other times, he simply wasn't doing enough. Wilder got his tactics completely wrong with a very passive workrate. He should have traded blows with Fury, as the Brit simply doesn't have enough power to compete with the American. I can't see Fury getting this close in a rematch.

Lots of moaning in the press, again, about judges. I think there should be far more judges for a bout - say between six and eight - with the outlier scores struck off (like in diving and skating) to ensure fairness. They should also watch fights on a television feed, not with the often obstructed  view they get from ringside.

From what I saw of the fight (which was none of it), I had Fury winning 6 rounds but Wilder doing just enough to take 5, and with the added two points for the knockdowns and one even round. I therefore think Wilder should have been given the nod.

Duty281 wrote:Like Kingraf and the British judge, I also scored it 113-113. The rounds Fury won were mostly clear ones, while Wilder was very canny and often nicked rounds. It certainly wasn't a robbery, and not even close to being a Lewis-Holyfield type decision. I fail to see, however, how it could be scored 115-111 to Wilder.

At times, Fury was putting on a masterclass. Other times, he simply wasn't doing enough. Wilder got his tactics completely wrong with a very passive workrate. He should have traded blows with Fury, as the Brit simply doesn't have enough power to compete with the American. I can't see Fury getting this close in a rematch.

Lots of moaning in the press, again, about judges. I think there should be far more judges for a bout - say between six and eight - with the outlier scores struck off (like in diving and skating) to ensure fairness. They should also watch fights on a television feed, not with the often obstructed  view they get from ringside.

I hear you duty, but the is that judges are seated in different positions to get a different perspective on a fight so the amalgamation of them irons out if one misses a shot because of ring position. They are central on the side they have so get a pretty good view. Also in theory they are not influenced by the marking of the other judges who’s card they can’t see. Reality is, fight scoring is subjective by nature and open to bias and corruption. So no doubting what we have has never worked well except to promote discussion and controversy.

Re wilder not trading blows as a tactic. I think the answer to that is it’s not as easy as it looks against a guy with better footwork and boxing skills.

I can see how the fight can be scored a draw by virtue of the two knockdowns so on that basis I dont think it was a "robbery". Wilder was the luckier of the two fighters to get out with a draw as it required him to get given the benefit of the doubt in most of the closer rounds.

But one judge only gave Fury five rounds it seemed. Thats inept scoring. The kind of card which should be thrown out. Fury can count himself unfortunate to be on the wrong side of a card like that when there is a good chance a more competent judge would have seen him get the nod. These kind of cards keep appearing in high profile fights now. Blatant favoritism toward one fighter.

I think Fury starts a rematch as favourite, especially if a rematch is in the UK. I think he showed he has the better boxing skills and although Wilder can floor him its going to something really big to keep him on the floor. His powers of recovery are legitimately good. He has another championship fight under his belt now as well which will serve him better in a rematch.

If you deem a draw a fair result you don't have a clue about boxing tbh. Until the 6th round Wilder's punch connection % was at a pathetic 9%, so therefore it's near enough impossible for him to have won any of the first half of the fight. At best Wilder won 3 rounds, two with knockdowns. 115-111 for Fury should've been the lead scorecards. The Mexican idiot with 115-111 gift for wilder is merely corrupt

Score it as a boxing match then Fury wins

Score it as a fight then a draw is fine

Fight highlighted why it would be madness to create a super heavyweight division

BT production much slicker than Sky

Just like the first Lennox Lewis fight with Holyfield. The American Judge had Holyfield winning and the British Judge had it a draw. It goes against the grain but I think Fury did enough to get the nod despite bring put on the deck twice. Whether he could do it again if the have a rematch is another matter.

The only fighter that lost Saturday was Joshua..

This fight caught the imagination and lived up to the hype..

Wilder v Fury 2.....or.... Joshua v stiff.

The rematch will catch all the attention..

Love the American pie at the post fight conference..

Irritating or Endearing...Fury certainly is hard to ignore.

Punch stats had Fury landing 84 punches to Wilder's 73. In the 9 rounds Fury outlanded Wilder, 8 were by less than two punches. Speaks to how I saw the fight, Fury made Wilder miss, often wildly so. But he maybe coulda done a little more to put his foot on Wilder's throat. Especially as the contender

the result as such wasn't a robbery, it was a close fight and whilst i'd have no argument with fury getting the nod, can't argue too heavily over the draw. That card though was ridiculous, if your gonna fudge it at least try and make it look like your not biased.

I kind of agree with Truss that Joshua is the loser from this but still think he'll sell out Wembley regardless of next opponent in record time whilst others have to hope it's a sell out come fight night.

If I was Fury and the rematch isn't held somewhere neutral or in the UK then i'd be talking to Joshua to get the bout with him. Fury could cause him real problems and he's shown he can take a punch (oh how he can take a punch)

Derbymanc wrote:the result as such wasn't a robbery, it was a close fight and whilst i'd have no argument with fury getting the nod, can't argue too heavily over the draw. That card though was ridiculous, if your gonna fudge it at least try and make it look like your not biased.

I kind of agree with Truss that Joshua is the loser from this but still think he'll sell out Wembley regardless of next opponent in record time whilst others have to hope it's a sell out come fight night.

If I was Fury and the rematch isn't held somewhere neutral or in the UK then i'd be talking to Joshua to get the bout with him. Fury could cause him real problems and he's shown he can take a punch (oh how he can take a punch)

Hearn won't agree a percentage with Fury while he isn't a 'Champion'...Fury certainly wouldn't be offered the split he deserves..

Make better sense for Fury to beat Wilder in a rematch and then be the number 1 Heavy which he will be regardless of who Joshua fights..

End Wlad's unbeaten run and beat Wilder you have to be number 1.......Then Joshua can come to him begging for a fight..

A guy who made £20m fighting a 40 year old Povetkin in the second biggest British PPV of all time is not going to beg anyone for a fight.

Yanks score for aggression don’t forget and Wilder was on the front foot most of the fight

Was it effective aggression though that’s for the individual? Whilst not consistently effective with two kd’s one quite heavy there’s a case to say it was

Two kd’s on away soil no complaints really no second knockdown Fury wins. If Wilder got dropped twice in UK but out pointed Fury let’s be real he wouldn’t get a draw

Mexican judge wasn't a yank...

I don’t really know how to respond to that Truss

But what an exciting division light heavy now is

What a threesome that is. I was wrong to say Gvozdyk not up there with Bivol and Beterbiev wasn’t I. Is it Gvozdyk who’s the best? Winner of Álvarez/Kovalev too what a mix

Atlas- ‘We can’t be a gavone’

https://youtu.be/8QFB6t9i8Ws

Not going to be writing about 175 until I know Stevenson is going to be okay..

Not going to write about his victims who he used to put cigarettes out on and beat mercilessly and he was 21 years old at the time old enough to know what extreme sadism is

Back to the heavyweights the guy on the back foot needs to be landing the heavier shots doesn’t he? That’s wasn’t necessarily the case was it?

Fury the better boxer and outpointed him you could say but the second kd evened the fight out

Whataboutery alert...

No way Khan against Crawford is ppv worthy bored with Crawford already going for the weakest links it could have been Prograis then Mikey or Spence instead we get Horn, Benavidez now Collazo or Khan

Better than Sugar Ray yeah right

https://www.boxingscene.com/khan-considering-5m-top-rank-offer-fight-crawford-323--134288

Sure Khan will take this never going to fight Kell and frankly I don’t blame him anymore

Sorry but why you hating on Bud Crawford? Haymon won't let any of his welterweights fight a top rank fighter.

Crawford is great and doesn't need to prove jack

5 million is a lot of dollar for what will almost certainly be a knockout loss for Khan after what might be an entertaining few rounds.

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Sorry but why you hating on Bud Crawford? Haymon won't let any of his welterweights fight a top rank fighter.

Crawford is great and doesn't need to prove jack

You’re right of course Haymon a cancer and trying to freeze Bob out can’t the organisations force some mandatories or something this is no good for the fans and the sport?

Bob of course loves being frozen out. Can keep it in house and/or fight lesser oppo. As I said before he knew the Spence fight wasn’t happening

Progress not with Haymon though is he. Progress was Bud’s next fight had Crawford chosen to stick around at 140 and properly clean out the division

Naturally Bud could've fought Regis, but I think he was pissed at being forced the fight the IBF mandatory and once his undisputed crown was fragmented there was little to achieve at 140.

Secondly Manny indicated he was gonna leave Top Rank, therefore Arum couldn't risk losing the WBO to wherever Manny ended, so naturally he squashed Manny vs Horn 2, allowing Bud to get that title.

Bloody boxing politics

Have watched it 3 times now and Fury looks even more dominant with each watching, i had it to Fury by 3 rounds and that was even giving Wilder a round could easily have been scored Fury. The big lump was absolutely superb and was robbed of a great win, let also remember that was with him not yet in tip top condition and still not fully sharp after a long layoff. Its hard to make a case for anything other than a clear Fury win. Wilder has been shown up for the limited fighter he is very crude, leaky in defence, not great at fighting inside and lacking in any ring generalship. If he had been fighting Joshua last night he would have been starched in a couple of rounds. He also had no answer to the sheer physical strength of Fury. Only fight now i want to see is Fury and AJ to see who the true best is, Wilder i dont think would even beat Povetkin.

The fight confirmed what we all already knew- Fury can box, but can't punch, and Wilder can punch but he can't box. Joshua can have only gained confidence from watching this.

horizontalhero wrote:The fight confirmed what we all already knew- Fury can box, but can't punch, and Wilder can punch but he can't box. Joshua can have only gained confidence from watching this.

Fury's boxing skills are far too good for a plodder like Joshua. Joshua was mesmerised by Wlad's jab and he was essentially semi retired. Joshua is too slow to cause any issues to Fury. Wilder pancakes Joshua.

Joshua is no plodder he is a well rounded boxer with a huge punch, if Wilder had even half the skills of AJ on saturday night then it would have been a vastly different fight. Wilder i would put level with Whyte and Parker now and behind AJ, Fury and Povetkin he would be a very routine fight for AJ and Fury will humilate him in a rematch. Its really not hard to see why Wilder never fought anyone of note until nearly getting beaten by a pensioner and totally outclassed by a still flabby and slighty ring rusty Fury.

There have been three heavyweight fights that have captured the imagination and have come as a shock for its entertainment / surprise value / consequences in recent years.

Klitschko versus Fury in Germany.  Fury was a complete underdog.   Many on reflection blamed it on an underperformance of Klitschko.   A few said it was due to Fury's brilliant defence and ring intelligence.

Joshua versus Klitschko in London.  This was evenly divided as to who was favorite.  Many had felt Joshua had been hyped, lacked stamina, had not been really tested (apart from that punch from Dylian Whyte when Joshua was rocked).  Whilst many had Klitschko as past-it.  The fight itself was dazzling - with both putting on a great performance and Joshua showing tremendous spirit as well as power.

Wilder versus Fury in America. I think most had Wilder as an overwhelming favorite.  The fight itself was astonishing.  Fury gained a huge number of admirers.  Wilder's power in his hands became undisputed.

Easy to fix, get rid of the scoring system!

A winner has to win the match by knocking out his opponent or his opponent (or his corner) chucks inthe towel because they are done!

You may end up with 20 round matches, but hey how. Sometimes football games go on for over 2 hours!

Think how exciting Saturday’s fight might have been if was fifteen rounds

This angle clearly shows no long count


https://youtu.be/oCFrI6Rxs9E

Yes Fury did well to get off the canvas from those shots from Wilder, but he did and finished the round well. Is it a rule that if there is a knock down it's an automatic 10 8 score even though the man who was knocked down would have won the round except for the knock down? I remember when Holyfield met Moorer the first time and Moorer went down in the second round and Gerry Roth scored the round even which gave the fight and the title to Moorer.

I don't think anyone can begrudge Wilder getting a 10-8 in the final round, it was a heavy heavy knockdown. And the count then if it stated the exact moment the he went down it was maybe marginally long but I think the ref gets the benefit of the doubt there.

Steve Bunce though said that from the moment the punch landed 25 seconds passed before they were told to fight on by the ref. I think thats too long, Fury should have been stopped or told to fight within 5 seconds I would say is fair. Having said that I have not timed it myself…

Either way Fury getting up form that knockdown is one of the most incredible things I have seen in a ring. I am far from his biggest fan but fair play and credit where it is due.

Herman Jaeger wrote:This angle clearly shows no long count


https://youtu.be/oCFrI6Rxs9E

It also shows how flabby Tyson Fury was (is). If you look at his back - there are rolls of fat hanging over his trunks. It looks like he has a spare tyre around him. Between his fight with Francesco Pianeta and Deontay Wilder he only lost 1 1/2 pounds. He could have and should have lost a full stone to get him to around 17 1/2 stone. Deontay Wilder looked chiselled. In terms of athletic build it looked like a chiselled prize fighter versus a pub fighter. Wilder is very light compared to his large build - but seems to be all bone and muscle with no flab.

Anthony Joshua has a build similar to Wilder but is about two stones heavier. He is another muscle man. Wilder seems to generate the power through rapid shoulder movement and movement into his hands. Joshua doesn't have the same speed of movement into his hand - he relies more on straight muscle power and grounding / pushing through his leg.

No name Bertie wrote:It also shows how flabby Tyson Fury was (is)

He doesn't exactly look like an athlete, does he?!! But at the end of twelve rounds, Wilder was the one who looked exhausted. Fury is obviously very fit, despite the surplus fat. But I can't help thinking he'd move around even better if he trimmed down a bit.

I was reading an interview a while ago with his nutritionist. Given the size Fury was when they started working together, he was against the idea of very rapid weight loss as it could do more harm than good to the body... he was more interested in fueling the body for the training, and the weight would come off gradually with careful control of carbs.

There's also a genetic factor when it comes to fat retention and muscle definition.