EPCR Champions Cup Montpellier V Edinburgh

Montpellier v Edinburgh Rugby

Saturday 13th October 2018 15:15 (BST)
Champions Cup Round 1
Pool 5
GGL Stadium
Ref: Wayne Barnes
Assis Ref 1: Matthew O'Grady Assis Ref 2: Paul Dix TMO: Rowan Kitt

Teams

Montpellier - TBC

Edinburgh - TBC

I've got to say it is quite nice being back in this! Definitely took it for granted when it was automatic that we got in  - we've been in the Challenge Cup wilderness for too long.

Certainly going to be back into the competition with a bump away to Montpellier, one of the biggest spending clubs in world rugby and last year's Top 14 finalists.

They have some absolutely beasts in the pack and some world class backs, none more so then Nadolo on the left wing who unfortunately for Edinburgh has returned from injury just in time to play us.

This is real David vs Goliath stuff, but Edinburgh do well as the underdogs so I actually think we'll put in a decent performance. Alas the best way to play Montpellier is to try and keep the tempo high but this isn't something that is in our DNA. If Cockers carries on the tactics of one out passes and running into people that we have seen so far this season we won't get very far against the Montpellier beasts.

Selection wise he will have an interesting dilemma this week having publicly critised Scott, Dean and Fife and dropped them last week. On the face of it their replacements did well, but if we go into the game with the same midfield as against the Cheetahs we will get smashed. We definitely need Scott's physicality and Chris Dean's direct running would be an asset too. The most interesting call would be does he pick 5ft 9 13st (when dripping wet) Darcy Graham against 6ft 4 20st Nadolo?? I say go for it - you don't bring Nadolo down by going high and Graham has the bravery to go low and chop him down. I'd like to see Graham in a bit of space with the ball against Nadolo too (think Cammy Murray vs Lomu!).

My team:

1 Dell
2 McInally
3 Nel
4 Toolis (although he must be knackered by now)
5 Gilchrist
6 Bradbury
7 Watson
8 Mata

9 Pyrgos (he really need to speed up his game though)
10 Hickey
11 VDM
12 Scott
13 Dean
14 Graham
15 Kinghorn

Subs - Sutherland, Ford, Berghan, Charmichael, Ritchie, Kenndy, VDW, JJ

https://theoffsideline.com/is-it-time-for-cockerill-to-really-show-faith-in-darcy-graham/

BigGee - any chance of you coping & pasting that article into here?  My work has real beef with the offside line, so can't access that site

BigGee wrote:https://theoffsideline.com/is-it-time-for-cockerill-to-really-show-faith-in-darcy-graham/

Would love him to pick Graham again and the points that Jim Renwick makes in that article are all valid.

I watched every Scotland game live at the Dubai 7s last year and Graham was by far the standout player.

RICHARD COCKERILL made a point of singing Darcy Graham’s praises after Friday night’s comfortable, in the end – but not wholly convincing – victory over the Cheetahs at Murrayfield. It was the Hawick-raised winger’s first appearance for the capital outfit this season (only his second PRO14 start since joining the staff in the summer of 2017), and the head coach was clearly impressed by the 21-year-old’s energy and desire to make an impact every time he got his hands on the ball.

“Best player on the field tonight,” stated Cockerill in the post-match press huddle. “I thought he was outstanding. A great example for young Scottish players, and old Scottish players. He just works his socks off, carries the ball as hard as he can, tackles, and I think that is the first time we’ve won back a high ball we’ve kicked this season. I can’t speak highly enough of his tenacity and his work-rate and his effort and his attitude.

“If you want an example of the effort I want to see in training and in games, he gave that tonight. I thought he was brilliant.”


‘A couple of years ago, a bonus-point win, the boys would go on the piss for two days’ – Cockerill

PRO14: flawed but improving Edinburgh see off Cheetahs

10 talking points from round 6 of the Tennent’s Premiership


Which prompted two obvious questions.

Firstly, if you rate him so highly, then why has he had so little game time at Edinburgh?

“He’s been a little bit of a victim of the system where he played [Scotland] Under-20s last summer [2017] so didn’t get a full pre-season, and then he played sevens this summer because we thought that was the right thing but he got injured which meant he missed another pre-season,” replied Cockerill.

“He’s missed two pre-seasons so he’s a little bit behind, but, as we saw tonight, you give him the opportunity, which he deserved, and he’s taken it. So, the best thing to do is pick him again if he plays like that.”

Which segues nicely into the second obvious question: has he played himself into the team to face Montpellier in the European Heineken Champions Cup this coming Saturday afternoon?

“Well, of the wingers on the field tonight playing for Edinburgh, who was the best?” was Cockerill’s response.

“Darcy versus [Nemani] Nadolo might be interesting,” he then added with a wince, which suggests that the coach has concerns about the compact Graham (5ft 10ins and tipping the scales at 13st 3lbs) going up against the Fijian powerhouse (6ft 4ins and 20st 7lbs).


Apartments in Leith
Fortune favours…

Selecting Graham would certainly be a brave call, but another Hawick man who knows a bit about ability, pace and desire being more valuable commodities in rugby than sheer bulk believes that Edinburgh aren’t realistically going to win the Champions Cup, so leaving Graham back in Edinburgh playing club rugby with Watsonians (who he has been drafted to this season and has scored two tries for in two appearances) would be a wasted opportunity.

“The big thing is that he needs to play,” says Jim Renwick, who represented Scotland 52 times between 1972 and 1985, and who toured South Africa with the Lions in 1980, before going on to have distinguished club coaching career. “I just don’t buy that you blood a player by giving him ten minutes one week then dropping him out the squad the next week.

“If he plays and he struggles then they can take him off,” Renwick adds.“Darcy isn’t going to be put off by one tough afternoon – that’s not his style”.


“He wants to be a good player, he wants to test himself, you can see that in the way he plays – if he gets put on his backside he gets right back up and has another go.”

Renwick has not been directly involved in Graham’s development but has kept an impressed eye on the youngster from a distance.


“A lot of people down here [in Hawick] think he was better than Stuart Hogg coming through. Now, that’s a big call. He’s not got Stuart’s balance, but what he does have is that explosiveness when he gets the ball and when he goes into contact,” says Renwick.

“He’s great to watch – he always has a go – he’s not content with just getting tackled and recycling the ball. He reminds me of Ian Chalmers (who was a prolific try-scorer in the Hawick team which swept all before them in the early 1970s) – a fireball of energy and the defender never knows what’s coming next.

“He’s not long on the ground either. If they get him down, he bounces right back to his feet and gets back in the game. If you think about it, that’s like having an extra man.

“The issue they’ll have with him is his size, but that shouldn’t stop him. If you aren’t big then you have to be special, and if you look at what Shane Williams has achieved in the modern game then there’s no reason why Darcy can’t make it.

“He’s a good handler, a good kicker, a great runner and he’s gutsy – in fact, that’s probably his weakness because he’s too brave at times and gets himself hurt or takes too much on – but he’ll learn.

“Robin Charters (who coached that great Hawick team Renwick played in alongside the legendary Derrick Grant) used to say that young players run before they think, and old players think before they run. I suppose every player is trying to find the balance between the two, and that will come for Darcy with the more games he plays.”


Watch Darcy Graham score a wonder try against Fiji at the Dubai Sevens in December 2017 –




Graham was a constant threat in attack on Friday night and scrambled over the line just before half-time for the second of Edinburgh’s four tries. But it won’t have escaped Cockerill’s notice that his opposite number, Rabz Maxwane, created the Cheetah’s first try with a 60-yard dash after ball was turned over while Graham was out of position looking to get involved in the middle of the park, or that the South African scored two quick-fire tries just after the break to haul his team back into the match.

“The big thing about defending as a winger is knowing when to stay out and when to come in and take the man inside,” says Renwick. “Sometimes it is about the men you have inside you – what they are doing and telling you. I’ve seen British and Irish Lions players get it wrong, so it’s not easy. It’s another thing that you only really learn by doing it in games. That’s why he needs to play.”

Demographics, genetics and finance mean that Scotland have to bring something different to the table if they are going to survive, let alone flourish, on the world stage.

Darcy Graham is something different.

Time to see what he can do.

thanks

I hope he plays as well. I do think that despite his size he has the chance to become a special player if he is given the opportunity.

I would actually like to see him running at Nandolo (who pulled out of the game this weekend late as his injury flared up again). I think with his speed, footwork and the difference in size, he would really struggle to get hold of him!

I wonder if there is a real risk of Nadolo conceding a lot of pens against Darcy (before I go on, I realise this is blatantly wishful thinking), with the height difference and Darcy's quick feet, it's going to be hard for Nadolo to get low enough to tackle him below the shoulders/nipple

Aye - the wee guy will always be able to change direction quicker.

I used to do this with a pal who was smaller than me.  He couldn't catch me as I was quicker in a straight line, but I couldn't catch him as he could turn quicker

this is why we need the midget team - think of all the high tackle pens!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45785856

Cockers is of course completely right here. It is win win for Edinburgh and lose lose for Montpellier. Anything less than a stuffing for Edinburgh will be looked upon quite favourably.

Anyone who has done their homework as well, will realise that Edinburgh have actually travelled quite well in euro comps recently, beating Quins and Stade away from home in the lesser cup, which even if they were not giving their full focus, these sides would not have enjoyed losing at home.

If Pelly only think they have got to turn up and/or it is close at 70 mins, it may get very interesting!

BigGee wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45785856

Cockers is of course completely right here. It is win win for Edinburgh and lose lose for Montpellier. Anything less than a stuffing for Edinburgh will be looked upon quite favourably.

Anyone who has done their homework as well, will realise that Edinburgh have actually travelled quite well in euro comps recently, beating Quins and Stade away from home in the lesser cup, which even if they were not giving their full focus, these sides would not have enjoyed losing at home.

If Pelly only think they have got to turn up and/or it is close at 70 mins, it may get very interesting!

To be fair the way Edinburgh have played so far this season, they only have to turn up for 20-30 mins after half time and they'll be grand, the 2nd half at most. 

Don’t know what you guys are worried about, we’ve totally got this.

In other news it’s wonderful to have the use of my arms again after escaping from that straightjacket

Things are looking ever so slightly less scary with stand off Goosen going off with a bad injury at the weekend (get well soon) and Nadolo pulling out late before the game (best he takes his time to recover properly). Now there's another 13 people to worry about (plus the bench) but every little helps....

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Don’t know what you guys are worried about, we’ve totally got this.

In other news it’s wonderful to have the use of my arms again after escaping from that straightjacket

Blow for Edinburgh with VDM injured. Graham will line up against Nadolo if he's in the team!



Scotland star Matt Scott has been named in the Edinburgh backline for his side’s first Heineken Champions Cup fixture in four years.

Edinburgh face former Scotland Coach Vern Cotter's Montpellier side in their first Pool 5 encounter at the GGL Stadium tomorrow afternoon (Saturday 13 October, kick-off 3.15pm BST/ 4.15pm) - live on BT Sport.

The Edinburgh team selection sees three changes - two of those in the back division - with Scott named in midfield and Dougie Fife selected on the wing in the place of the injured Duhan van der Merwe.

Head Coach Richard Cockerill makes just one alteration to the pack as Allan Dell – making his 50th appearance for the club – is selected at loosehead prop.

Ahead of the fixture, Cockerill, said: “It’s going to be a huge test for us mentally and physically -especially for some of our younger players who haven’t played at this intensity.

“We’re not going to force them into an arm wrestle because that’s going to make it tough for us. If we can keep lots of ball, get quick service and put them under pressure, then we’ll create opportunities.

“Our form has been getting there, but we’ve not played anyone near the quality of Montpellier. We’ll go and enjoy ourselves, play with a smile on our faces and give it our best shot.”

Blair Kinghorn is named at fullback, with Darcy Graham – a try-scorer in last weekend’s win over Cheetahs – and Fife named on the flanks.

Scott is joined by outside-centre James Johnstone in midfield, while stand-off Simon Hickey and Henry Pyrgos continue at half-back.

Up front, hooker Stuart McInally captains the side and packs down alongside Dell and the experienced WP Nel.

Scotland duo Grant Gilchrist and Ben Toolis are named in the second row, while Hamish Watson, Magnus Bradbury and Fijian international Bill Mata complete the back-row.



Edinburgh team to face Montpellier at the GGL Stadium in the Heineken Champions Cup on Saturday 13 October, kick-off 3.15pm BST/ 4.15pm local time – live on BT Sport.



15. Blair Kinghorn (69)



14. Darcy Graham (7)

13. James Johnstone (23)

12. Matt Scott (78)

11. Dougie Fife (112)



10. Simon Hickey (5)

9. Henry Pyrgos (5)



1. Allan Dell (49)

2. Stuart McInally (125) CAPTAIN

3. WP Nel (120)

4. Ben Toolis (94)

5. Grant Gilchrist (125)

6. Magnus Bradbury (57)

7. Hamish Watson (86)

8. Bill Mata (41)


Replacements: 16. Ross Ford (183); 17. Rory Sutherland (65); 18. Simon Berghan (53); 19. Luke Hamilton (5); 20. Jamie Ritchie (54); 21. Sean Kennedy (63); 22. Jaco van der Walt (20); 23. Chris Dean (69)

It is a shame VDW isn't fit - he would have wanted to have played, having been at Pelly for a while. Other than that, its a strong squad with the obvious lack of 2nd row on the bench - Toolis has been run ragged this year!

With Goosen and Cruden out, it looks like they are playing Piennar at 10 - which doesn't really weaken them although it might make them even more conservative? Best bet we have is to keep the tempo high, and sustain that with the inclusion of Hamilton and Richie around the 60 min mark - if we do that, I think it could be closer than many of the pundits think.

LondonTiger wrote:MONTPELLIER

• 15. Henry Immelman, 
  
• 14. Benjamin Fall, 
  
• 13. Vincent Martin, 
  
• 12. Jan Serfontein, 
  
• 11. Gabriel N'gandebe, 
  
• 10. Ruan Pienaar, 
  
• 9. Enzo Sanga, 
  
• 1. Mikheil Nariashvili, 
  
• 2. Bismarck Du Plessis, 
  
• 3. Jannie Du Plessis, 
  
• 4. Nico Janse van Rensburg, 
  
• 5. Paul Willemse, 
  
• 6. Fulgence Ouedraogo, 
  
• 7. Wiaan Liebenberg, 
  
• 8. Louis Picamoles (c).
  

Replacements:

• 16. Vincent Giudicelli, 
  
• 17. Grégory Fichten, 
  
• 18. Antoine Guillamon, 
  
• 19. Kevin Kornath, 
  
• 20. Kelian Galletier, 
  
• 21. Julien Tomas, 
  
• 22. Yvan Reilhac, 
  
• 23. Alexandre Dumoulin,
  

That pack is colossal

Decent team out for Edinburgh, but they have some task to face,

Still they are not at full strength and not unbeatable. Glasgow stayed in the game in both fixtures last year and really should have taken more from the fixtures. They were certainly not outclassed.

Big shift required from Toolis and Gilchrist, no second row cover on the bench. You would imagine that Bradbury or Mata will go in if required.

Oh dear.  I think we might get eaten alive.  Our only hope is to keep the tempo high and move them around and thats not much of one

That pack is monstrous and the Pelly front row is harder than nail pie.

Still, onwards and ever sideways and all of that. Best of luck to the lads.

That is probably going to be the Scotland front row for the AIs though - now's the time to step up to the plate. Our pack in general is an international pack too.

The backs not so much...

Tom English setting the scene nicely

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45839754

RDW_Scotland wrote:Tom English setting the scene nicely

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45839754

I imagine the scene will something like Omaha Beach, June 6th 1944. Stern Vern riding a tank and Dougie Fife frantically trying to reattach Magnus Bradbury's leg.

Bit dark Eejit...

It came out a little darker than intended, yes.

Anyway, I said so half joking in another thread that I reckon Edinburgh will get out this group and Montpellier aren't as good as they think they are. This is where Cockers will earn his salary.

I'm only able to watch in bursts but Edinburgh holding their own well, just being let down by mistakes.

Certainly in the game.

Spoke too soon! 21-7 Montpellier.

21-10 HT. Montpellier well in control but an early try and Edinburgh are tighr back in it.

Edinburgh shafted by Barnes - dominated their scrum and he gave no penalty.

Gaaaaaah so close! So proud of that performance but we could have won that. All Edinburgh in the 2nd half and we had the chances to take the game.

Edinburgh absolutely deserving of the LBP - a huge performance

RDW_Scotland wrote:Gaaaaaah so close! So proud of that performance but we could have won that. All Edinburgh in the 2nd half and we had the chances to take the game.

Edinburgh absolutely deserving of the LBP - a huge performance

Munster & Leinster use to build their progression on getting a LBP and denying a TBP. So well done. On the board and maybe the hardest game played.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Gaaaaaah so close! So proud of that performance but we could have won that. All Edinburgh in the 2nd half and we had the chances to take the game.

Edinburgh absolutely deserving of the LBP - a huge performance

Bearing in mind the domestic form of Newcastle and Toulon, I reiterate that Edinburgh can have a really good go at this group.

We had the try to take the leads but 2 forwards got in the way of each other - if the other forward has been given the ball it would have been a try.

Still annoyed at that Barnes decision scrum on their line!

RDW_Scotland wrote:We had the try to take the leads but 2 forwards got in the way of each other - if the other forward has been given the ball it would have been a try.

Still annoyed at that Barnes decision scrum on their line!

Good to see the pack stand up to a big pack. The forwards are allowed a bit of whiteline fever after their effort.

Only second Pro14 loss of the weekend so maybe you and Zebre should hang your head in shame.

Also, whoever made that last ditch tackle on Picamoles at the end deserves a a knighthood!

Watched the game when I got home from work last night.

Great game, which Edinburgh should have won, but probably the best they have played all season. They stood up to the monster Montpellier pack just fine and probably looked more creative in the back line than we have seen recently.

Unfortunately Kinghorn's tackling is the one thing that is stopping him becoming a really good international player. He should have got him down, no excuses really, that was a soft try to give away.

Hickey missed him as well and to be honest was probably outshone by VDW when he came on as the sub. A really good impact he had and maybe they will swap roles next weekend. Good to see him rising to the challenge, the competition between the two of them can only be a good thing.

McInally had been ill all week apparently but insisted on playing but was completely spent at half time, still he put in quite a shift in that first half.

How did they manage to butcher that try chance at the end?

A bonus point away to a top French side is not to be sniffed at. If they can beat Toulon next weekend, then the pool is wide open and qualification is a possibility. They have everything to play for.

Gutted that this was so close - that has to give us a lot of confidence.

George Carlin wrote:Gutted that this was so close - that has to give us a lot of confidence.

Ah so you're an Edinburgh fan when we do well again?? 

RDW_Scotland wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Gutted that this was so close - that has to give us a lot of confidence.

Ah so you're an Edinburgh fan when we do well again?? 

Not worth of you, my chubby green capitan. Regular supporter of both clubs.

Highlights here - shame they didn't show the try that almost was as it was fantastic build up play, with an excruciating mess up at the end.

https://twitter.com/EdinburghRugby/status/1051438839489810433?s=09

Our tries were fantastic - great to see Mata now adding offloading to his game, which is causing carnage to add to his brute strength.

I hope everyone bought Chris Dean a drink that night for the last ditch tackle on Picamoles - no idea how he managed to hold him up. Credit to Darcy Graham who put in a big hit soon after too which was another crucial intervention.

Cockerill will be frustrated with the Montpellier tries - Kinghorn really can't be missing those tackles, and I think it was Graham that just got completely lost for the cross field kick. Montpellier were actually pretty underwhelming - credit to Edinburgh for containing them.

Oh to add to the list of complaints against Barnes, the clear out in the ruck before their cross field try was both in from the side and a no arms shoulder charge. Right in front of him!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Cockerill will be frustrated with the Montpellier tries - Kinghorn really can't be missing those tackles, and I think it was Graham that just got completely lost for the cross field kick. Montpellier were actually pretty underwhelming - credit to Edinburgh for containing them.

I think it was HP, who was meant to be sweeping, but truth was Edinburgh defence was all over the place by then, they were killed by the turnover and the quick counter attack, so hard to blame him.

If Pinnear had not kicked it, they could probably have walked it in!

Well Newcastle B team just beat Toulon in France, what a result. That just opens this pool right up. You wonder how much interest Toulon are going to have in the rest of the games now, going to be very hard for them to qualify now.

Puts the onus well and truly on Edinburgh to beat Toulon next week - hopefully they lose interest now. Shame we didn't have them first up away to try and catch them cold as well.

Hopefully the weather is minging and they turn up really not wanting to play!

None of the winners got try BPs so the group is well and truly open. If we can beat Toulon and Newcastle lose next week our double header with them will be very interesting!

The Toulon model is a farce.  No academy to speak of, buy in a stupid amount of star players to win a couple of the European Cups and now it's starting to unravel.  They are currently 12th in the Top 14.  

There for the taking next week, no doubt about it.