Glasgow and Edinburgh 21st Century Banter

by **BigGee** Tue 23 Oct 2018, 9:05 am

Something is going on this year

Both Glasgow and Edinburgh are playing quite well!

Is it a dream, am I imagining it, am I going to wake up in a cold sweat and find out that we are really cr*p again?

Someone please reassure me!!

by **BigGee** Tue 23 Oct 2018, 9:18 am

https://theoffsideline.com/cockerill-faces-anxious-wait-before-learning-of-scotland-releases/

Another amusing interview from Cockers, from where RDW cherry picked his quote on the Edinburgh - Toulon thread.

He gives a hint of the team for this weekend. Mungo Mason (in the sevens squad) and CHH get name checked and seem likely to play.

Preparations seem to have been badly trashed by the international call ups and the Scotland camp this week, but he is hopeful of getting some players back in time for the game.

by **RDW** Tue 23 Oct 2018, 12:44 pm

I'm surprised all the non-Scotland based players were released for the training camp - I'm assuming this is a World Rugby sanctioned window.

I bet Cockers and Rennie are hating it though - just as they're building a bit of momentum they lose all their players.

by **BigGee** Tue 23 Oct 2018, 3:37 pm

http://glasgowwarriors.org/news/18/10/23/alainuuese-finalises-toulon-move

The Big Brian saga finally comes to an end with Warriors confirming his move to Toulon. Clearly there was a bit of wrangling about money but it all seems to have been sorted out.

Wishing him all the best there, but you do wonder what he has let himself in for. He leaves Glasgow with a bit of the 'what might have been' about him, injury never really letting him fulfil his early promise.

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Tue 23 Oct 2018, 6:12 pm

Isn’t he still injured at the moment? It seems odd to push for early release of a player who is currently injured and has spent most of the last year injured!

by **BigGee** Tue 23 Oct 2018, 6:32 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Isn’t he still injured at the moment? It seems odd to push for early release of a player who is currently injured and has spent most of the last year injured!

I guess that is Toulon's issue now. He was meant to be coming back to fitness and he was down there recently so you would imagine that they had done some kind of medical on him.

Anyway, I guess as long as the cheque does not bounce!

I wonder if he might run out against Edinburgh for the return Toulon game in January?

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Tue 23 Oct 2018, 6:53 pm

They’ll need more than a perma-crocked Brian to defeat the mighty Edinburgh!

Too much too soon?

by **RDW** Tue 23 Oct 2018, 6:55 pm

I still can't get past the fact he's only 24 and not 64.

by **BigGee** Tue 23 Oct 2018, 6:58 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:They’ll need more than a perma-crocked Brian to defeat the mighty Edinburgh!

Too much too soon?

Be careful!

by **BigGee** Tue 23 Oct 2018, 10:56 pm

https://theoffsideline.com/alainuuese-completes-toulon-move-warriors-munster/

Big Brian gone, Davidson is now back with Newcastle and apparently the young prospect Marshal Sykes did his knee at the weekend and is out for 3-6 months!

Slightly more promisingly, McDonald is almost back, this week or next and Swinson within the month.

I would say it will be Peterson and Cummings in the row for this weekend at Munster, hopefully Harley will get released to cover the bench.

by **BigGee** Thu 25 Oct 2018, 11:19 am

Carl Hogg to coach the U20s this season, assisted by Nikki Walker and Scott Lawson.

On paper that is a pretty impressive set up and as a lot of last year's team are returning this time around, along with some excellent U18s coming up, there is every chance of a decent season.

I thought Redpath did z decent job last summer and definitely improved things from a poor 6N performance.

He probably did not want the job full time though, seemed happy to step away from rugby now. I expect he was just helping them out as they were in a mess.

by **RDW** Thu 25 Oct 2018, 11:21 am

I wonder when Ben Cairns will be given his chance at pro/under 20s level. He's done a great job at Currie and well and truly served his apprenticeship there having been coach for several years now. He's also said he wants a career as a coach.

Given that they're not a Super 6 team his future opportunities there may be limited.

by **RDW** Thu 25 Oct 2018, 12:13 pm

https://www.606v2.com/t68115-zebre-v-edinburgh#3745824

by 123456789. Fri 26 Oct 2018, 2:37 am

Scott Lawson is coaching the University of St Andrews Rugby Club at the moment, think they're second in the Scottish Unis league (although Edinburgh, Glasgow, Strathclyde and Stirling all play at higher levels) and gave a good account of themselves at the Varsity game against Edinburgh. Probably should have won by all account against a team two divisions above them. Think Nikki Walker has had a pretty decent coaching career so far too.

by **BigGee** Sun 28 Oct 2018, 12:50 am

Interesting to see quite a few current or ex Scotland U20s players on the fringes of Ep clubs getting a run out in the new English league cup competition which has replaced the Anglo Welsh cup.

The ones I spotted looking at the line ups Devante Onojaife and Fraser Strachan playing for Saints; Jack Cosgrove and Reiss Cullen for Bristol; Jake Kerr for Tigers; George Thorton for Wasps; Alex Craig, Charlie Chapman and our old friend Kyle Traynor for Gloucester!

Kyle Traynor is amazing and just when you think he is retiring, seems to pop up at another club. He was never really an international class player, but seems to have made a decent living as a journeyman LH prop that all clubs want and need. Fair play to him for going on the road and plying his wares.

Am looking forward tomorrow afternoon to watching the Exeter offerring where Sam Skinner (the new addition to the Scotland squad in the second row) younger brother is playing FH for Exeter. Could it be that we have another half decent SQ FH kicking around the system to keep an eye on.

In some respects it seems amazing that two brothers could end up being as different as a second row and a FH, then you think about the Barrett brothers in NZ and realise what is possible!

by **RDW** Mon 29 Oct 2018, 9:02 am

Well it's amazing how quickly things change in rugby - back to earth with a bump this weekend, although Glasgow can certainly hold their heads up high after a huge performance.

Things are only going to be more difficult this weekend with the Wales game, plus the back up players who will have to travel to cover injuries. I'd be amazed if Berghan is released again for example as a 3rd travelling reserve prop will be needed for Cardiff. Apparently Crosbie broke his cheekbone so our resource are going to be even more stretched.

by **RDW** Tue 30 Oct 2018, 8:52 am

Bit more chat from Cockers on the injury front - Bradbury is out for 4 months so will likely miss most of the 6N, Charmichael still has concussion symptoms but has returned to training (a big worry given how long this has been going on) and McKenzie should return mid-December

by EWT Spoons Tue 30 Oct 2018, 9:11 am

Gutted that Bradbury is out for so long, and Carmichael has been out with concussion since preseason so as you say RDW that is a bit of a worry.

by EST Tue 30 Oct 2018, 9:51 am

Really bad news for both Carmichael and Bradbury. The latter was probably in pole position to start at 6 in the AI's and maybe beyond.

by **BigGee** Tue 30 Oct 2018, 9:57 am

Bradbury just needs to regroup and put himself back into the frame for the WC squad. Hopefully he will get plenty of games in the back end of the season to show himself.

With Carmichael, hopefully this is a reflection of better management of head injuries and an acknowledgment that there is no need to rush back. John Barclay had a spell away last season for similar reasons and he came back all guns blazing. The most important thing is not to come back to soon.

Perhaps more worrying is that Dave Denton is also sidelined for the same reasons. He has a bit of a history of this and has already had a few spells on the sidelines because of it. I seem to recall there being talk that one more bad head injury could end his career at one point. Fortunately that was a good few years ago and he seems to have been fine since then. Hopefully this is just precautionary as well.

by EWT Spoons Tue 30 Oct 2018, 9:58 am

Rory Darge, Ally Miller and Lewis Wynne have all been called into the Edinburgh squad. Apparently Darge could play this weekend.

offside line wrote:RICHARD Cockerill may have a reputation for being quick-tempered, but he is just as capable of being calm and contemplative. No matter how much he was annoyed by Edinburgh’s second-half capitulation against Zebre on Friday night, for example, the head coach was still able to see the bigger picture – that, while victory would of course have been far preferable to the 34-16 defeat, the experience some of the team’s youngest players gained from that PRO14 match could be invaluable in the years to come.

The same attitude will obtain again on Friday night, when the Edinburgh squad to play Scarlets at home will again be down to its bare bones. Cockerill was due to learn last night which of his Scotland-squad members would be released to play in the Murrayfield match, but between international duties and injuries he expects to have about 20 absentees.

One player he had already known would be out is Magnus Bradbury, who withdrew from the Scotland squad last week with a shoulder injury. “We’re just deciding whether Magnus needs surgery, which is probably the case,” the coach said. “If he has surgery that will be, I would say, 16 weeks.”

Luke Crosbie, meanwhile, has a broken jaw and will be out for around six weeks. Jaco van der Walt, who was ruled out of the Zebre match with a pulled hamstring, will not play on Friday but could be back by the end of next month. And Matt Scott, out of Scotland contention with concussion, will go through the customary protocols.

Cockerill has brought in Ally Miller from the Sevens squad and Lewis Wynne from London Scottish, while Melrose’s Rory Darge will train with the squad and could play at the weekend.

“We’ve got a very difficult period coming up,” Cockerill acknowledged. “It is what it is. We’ve got to work hard with the players we’ve got. We’ll beg, borrow and do whatever we can to get a team out.

“It will be a challenge, won’t it? But the only way for young players to get blooded and learn is you have to take a bit of pain on the way. We’ll just see how much pain on Friday. We turn up and win, I think we should all go on the piss.”

The coach may well have felt like turning to drink after seeing his team lose to Zebre, but, while accepting that individual errors had contributed to the defeat, he was adamant that there was no point in getting carried away by rage.

“It was a difficult game to review – we played reasonably well for most of the game. First half we controlled the game very well, but if you make simple errors . . . . There were three really cheap tries for nothing and the game was away from us.

“We gave them cheap points. We’ve got some young guys in there that were playing for the first time and they slowly started to run out of energy. You have to learn the lessons of that.

“I expected us to stay in the fight a little bit more, and I expected a bit more from some of our senior players at times. They had all their internationals back in the squad, which was pretty unhelpful to us. But that’s what you get if you’re inaccurate and you miss vital parts of the game when it’s a really tight fixture anyway.

“I’m just disappointed, because we’re better than that. I don’t feel let down, because the players worked hard. We had the majority of our team away until Wednesday, Parma is the hardest place in the world to get to – that’s not an excuse, but it’s not a perfect week. However, with the start that we had and the tactics we had . . . But you can’t give cheap tries away.

“I’m pretty cheesed off that we didn’t get anything from the game. But in the context of where we’re at, we’re playing very deep into our squad, and sometimes there’s a bit of pain that comes with that.”

It remains to be seen how badly affected Scarlets are by Wales call-ups, but Cockerill still expects them to have greater numbers and experience from which to select. “I think they’ve got a deeper squad and they’re a more experienced squad – that’s what money buys. It’s ironic that Blade Thomson is going to be playing against us.

“Given we’ve got probably 20-plus players missing from our squad of 45, it doesn’t take much to get down to the bare bones, does it? So we’ll see. Who knows? The season’s not over – it’s two games. At the moment things are conspiring against us a little bit.”

by **BigGee** Tue 30 Oct 2018, 10:06 am

Lewis Wynne seems to have been playing very well for London Scottish, I think he has played every game for them and will no doubt be benefitting form regular game time at a very good standard.

It would be a bit ironic if Ally Miller, who never got a sniff last season and was parcelled off to the sevens now takes his chance to show that he is a decent player!

by tigertattie Tue 30 Oct 2018, 12:59 pm

Areas of concern for me

1. Players showing prolonged concussion symptoms. Never a good thing and while not meaning to sound doom and gloom, this kind of thing really can ruin a players career (or worse, thier long term health). I relaly hope all the players are being carefully looked after, from thier point of view and not whats best for the club/union. Which I'm sure they will be.

2. Gutted Bradbury is out for so long. If he doesnt get a run out in the 6Ns then you've got to think he won't be featuring in the world cup! We really need to hope that Blade hits his straps and nails down that elusive ball playing 8 position. Wilson at 6 doesn't worry me as much as Wilson at 8. It would be great thoguh is we got a Bradbury/Thomson/Watson backrow though. Even though it sounds like a firm FES would work for, i would be a rough tough backrow!

3. The youngsters running around in the English Cup - Vellacott seemed to play pretty well again for the cherries. Would it be worth the SRU approaching him again or has that ship sailed? With Price apparently getting his mojo back, SHC getting on well in Wales and Horne still a young livewire, is Vellacott surplus to requirements though?

by **RDW** Tue 30 Oct 2018, 2:27 pm

Some news that has come out of the blue - Johnnie Petrie is leaving Edinburgh to become Ulster's CEO!

The SRU statement didn't say when he was leaving Edinburgh but Ulster say he's starting at the beginning of 2019.

Ulster were the first to break the news which I always find a bit Poopie given none of the Edinburgh fans knew anything about it.

by **BigGee** Tue 30 Oct 2018, 3:04 pm

That's a shame, he seems to have done a pretty good job at Edinburgh steadying the ship and pushing through the appointment of Cockers, improved recruitment and mini Murrayfield.

I guess Ulster is currently a much bigger organisation and there will be a decent pay rise associated with that job. You always get the feeling that it is the SRU that really pull the strings with the Pro clubs and he may have found that frustrating.

by **BigGee** Wed 31 Oct 2018, 11:25 am

https://www.606v2.com/t68130-ospreys-v-glasgow-warriors-friday-2nd-november

by **RDW** Thu 01 Nov 2018, 12:03 pm

https://www.606v2.com/t68135-edinburgh-v-scarlets#3748021

by tigertattie Thu 01 Nov 2018, 3:49 pm

Fowles can bugger off

by jimbopip Thu 01 Nov 2018, 6:37 pm

Chentlemen, a word please.

Sadly, Caz the quiet Bokkie has unfortunately been taken ill and won't be journeying to Murrayfield for the Boks' game.

This means his ticket is available, the downside is it's beside the Brumeister and meself.

Also there is a flight from Stansted to Luvvietoon on the Saturday morning and back on the Sunday morning. Caz has written off the cost, but if anyone wants them and is willing to make a contribution that would be nice.

I have organised an Airbnb for the three of us which is paid for for whether its just Bru and me or if there are three of us so that's a free place to doss. Can't be bad.

PM me if interested.

by **RDW** Thu 01 Nov 2018, 7:37 pm

I really hope someone takes Jimbo up on his offer so we can hear all about it - it definitely has the makings of a horror/kidnap story!
Very Happy

P.s. I hope your mate is ok

by jimbopip Thu 01 Nov 2018, 8:10 pm

RDW, he's my mate:how could he not be OK? Oh! Right you are there. picard

Anyhoo, we'll smash these Welsh peasants and get some solace for the shambles that was our last visit to Cardiff. And by shambles I do not mean drinking in The Yard with Tattie Scones and his Posse after the game. They would have to up their game somewhat to even get in the same postcode as Shambles.

by RugbyFan100 Fri 09 Nov 2018, 12:28 pm

Any truth in the rumour that Stuart Hogg is off to Exeter?

by **RDW** Fri 09 Nov 2018, 12:36 pm

First I've heard of it! What's the source?

To be fair of all the teams he could go to Exter might be a good fit given their philosophy and ethics as a club (i.e. it's not full of world superstars bought in for quick gain) - should keep him grounded and help him develop. I'm amazed if they could compete financially though.

by RugbyFan100 Fri 09 Nov 2018, 1:01 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:First I've heard of it! What's the source?

To be fair of all the teams he could go to Exter might be a good fit given their philosophy and ethics as a club (i.e. it's not full of world superstars bought in for quick gain) - should keep him grounded and help him develop. I'm amazed if they could compete financially though.

Exeter are minted mate. Big wage bill. Was £7m in 2015 and has likely increased a good £1.5m since.

by Hazel Sapling Fri 09 Nov 2018, 1:09 pm

Exeter could finance it and would be a decent fit. I would prefer him going to play for Cotter though.

Newcastle have Welsh, Davidson and Gary Graham starting their league cup game on the weekend. Hardie is on the bench.

by jimbopip Fri 09 Nov 2018, 1:21 pm

Hoggy to Execeterr??? Shocked

I think after MadMata they may think twice about signing mercurial backs from Glasgow who have difficulties with speaking in English. Whistle

by jimbopip Fri 09 Nov 2018, 1:24 pm

Seriously though, it seems that according to a French Journalist Montpellier have been trying to sign him and that has fallen through because he is off to the Chiefs. Sad

by **BigGee** Fri 09 Nov 2018, 10:05 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/46159637

The Hoggy to Exeter rumour really beginning to get some legs now. Alan Tait talking it up now as well.

I would rather he stayed, though I can see why he would take the money that is on offer, it is a short career at the end of the day. If he does go though, then the Chiefs is far from the worst place for him to go to, he could really suit their style.

At the end of the day there will be a limit to what the SRU can put on the table. As a marquee signing, he would be outside the salary cap and he could probably double it down south.

Piateau is supposedly on a million a year at Bristol if that is any kind of yardstick.

by **RDW** Sun 11 Nov 2018, 8:27 am

http://glasgowwarriors.org/news/18/11/11/hogg-leave-end-season

He's off!

by **BigGee** Sun 11 Nov 2018, 9:30 am

Well it was probably inevitable, even if it is still disappointing. I expect Glasgow needed to know what was going on with him earlier rather than later, as this was likely to effect all their other recruitment for the season. I hope this at least means that we will have a better shout at retaining some of our other out of contract players.

As we know with FR leaving, life does go on, though we don't have a ready made FB cover in the way that we did with AH ready to step in at stand off.

Maybe we will look to bring someone in or maybe there is another young starlet out there that we just do not know about yet. I will watch the u20s this year with even more interest than usual.

by **RDW** Sun 11 Nov 2018, 9:50 am

No mention of where he's off to - for once the SRU have got in there before the new club announces it. Given the high profile of Hogg it wouldn't have gone down well if the Glasgow fans were the last to know (and they love a moan!)

Glasgow have enough class in the backs to not require a top class replacement, but they will need someone to fill the void. Jackson is a component replacement without being anything special and like Biggee I don't know if there are any young guns coming through.

If Maitland was a couple of years older I could see him coming back but at 30 he's still right in his prime, and is a regular starter in one of the best team in Europe. Let's see if he gets offered a new contract when his runs out. His current deal runs out in 2020.

by 123456789. Sun 11 Nov 2018, 9:56 am

As long as Jackson isn’t seen as the long term option. I am disappointed but understand, I hope he’s off to Exeter which seems a fairly good club when it comes to rotating their players as opposed to a French one that would flog him.

by Welly Sun 11 Nov 2018, 9:57 am

What's Mata contract situation?
Asking for a friend.

by 123456789. Sun 11 Nov 2018, 9:58 am

The other thing is this will force a rethink of Glasgow’s tactics, so often their moves leave the full back one on one with the defender. With Hogg it’s an almost guaranteed line break, with Jackson it’s a turnover risk every time.

by **BigGee** Sun 11 Nov 2018, 10:08 am

123456789. wrote:The other thing is this will force a rethink of Glasgow’s tactics, so often their moves leave the full back one on one with the defender. With Hogg it’s an almost guaranteed line break, with Jackson it’s a turnover risk every time.

To be fair, it has not been going so badly this season without him in all the big games so far. Jacko looked a little off the pace early on in the season, but has come more onto his game now.

Still he is not the future and is definitely coming towards the end of his career. Tommy S deputised at FB very adequately in one game, but he is 30 now as well and is definitely a better wing than FB.

I suspect we do need a replacement and maybe we need DR to get out his contact book of players back in NZ while we attempt to grow another one here.

by **RDW** Sun 11 Nov 2018, 10:28 am

Welly wrote: What's Mata contract situation?
Asking for a friend.

Got another year left, not that that'll discourage the big French clubs. Can't imagine he's on huge money either.

by **BigGee** Sun 11 Nov 2018, 10:39 am

Jamie Lyall on twitter saying it is definitely Exeter for Hoggy. It will be announced in the next few days.

I don't think that is the worst place he could have gone to. They are like Glasgow in many ways, a local based club, who are well managed and play some decent rugby. They probably feel they need a point of difference to stay at the top level and to compete with the moneyed clubs like Sarries.

You would imagine he will be reasonably well looked after there.

They must be mortgaging the place to pay for him though, he won't be cheap!

by 123456789. Sun 11 Nov 2018, 4:43 pm

BigGee wrote:
123456789. wrote:The other thing is this will force a rethink of Glasgow’s tactics, so often their moves leave the full back one on one with the defender. With Hogg it’s an almost guaranteed line break, with Jackson it’s a turnover risk every time.

To be fair, it has not been going so badly this season without him in all the big games so far. Jacko looked a little off the pace early on in the season, but has come more onto his game now.

Still he is not the future and is definitely coming towards the end of his career. Tommy S deputised at FB very adequately in one game, but he is 30 now as well and is definitely a better wing than FB.

I suspect we do need a replacement and maybe we need DR to get out his contact book of players back in NZ while we attempt to grow another one here.

I'd imagine that Damian McKenzie is almost certainly intending to retire from international rugby and move to Glasgow following the world cup. He's got his eye on a nice house in the Milngavie area and he's fed up with the New Zealand rain.

by **BigGee** Sun 11 Nov 2018, 4:51 pm

123456789. wrote:
BigGee wrote:
123456789. wrote:The other thing is this will force a rethink of Glasgow’s tactics, so often their moves leave the full back one on one with the defender. With Hogg it’s an almost guaranteed line break, with Jackson it’s a turnover risk every time.

To be fair, it has not been going so badly this season without him in all the big games so far. Jacko looked a little off the pace early on in the season, but has come more onto his game now.

Still he is not the future and is definitely coming towards the end of his career. Tommy S deputised at FB very adequately in one game, but he is 30 now as well and is definitely a better wing than FB.

I suspect we do need a replacement and maybe we need DR to get out his contact book of players back in NZ while we attempt to grow another one here.

I'd imagine that Damian McKenzie is almost certainly intending to retire from international rugby and move to Glasgow following the world cup. He's got his eye on a nice house in the Milngavie area and he's fed up with the New Zealand rain.

In our dreams!

by Eejit Sun 11 Nov 2018, 9:01 pm

In terms of replacements there are far too few Fijians in the Glasgow team now. I expect DR to attend the next Fijian Drua training session with a big sack of money and swipe a couple of those gentlemen.

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