PGA Tour: Where Have All The Americans Gone?: Notes from the Ballwasher

1).The Tour has two events this week, the WGC-HSBC Champions, in China, and the Sanderson Farms Championship "opposite field" shindig at the excellent Jackson (Mississippi) Country Club.
The fields at each are weaker than might reasonably be expected, with many leading Americans avoiding the WGC in their droves, and the (almost) $800K-to-the-winner Sanderson action being shunned by many of the better players who weren't qualified for China. Bill Haas, Chris Kirk, Badds, Lucas Glover and Hunter Mahan are some who need to get their career back on track.

2).Among those qualified for the WGC but not making the trip are:
Justin Thomas, BDeC, Spieth, Fowler, Woods, Mickelson, Bubba, Simpson, Kisner, Berger, Wise, Kuchar, Woodland, plus Garcia, Leishman, Oosthuizen and the surgically repaired Stenson.
Strangely, or not(?), some of these will be playing in Las Vegas next week.
(Whilst Mickelson & Woods are rumoured to be on Ryder Cup duty at Whistling Straits with Steve Stricker and Pete Dye - in his wheel-bulldozer - walking the course and poring over design blueprints trying to figure out how they can fit in 300-yard fairways by 2020.)

3).Whichever way one looks at things, the undeniable fact is that many double-dipping players will have ticked off up to three limited field, guaranteed pay/points events before others have even started their season.
Rafa and Casey are the leading Europeans on the Asian swing, but others including Cam Smith, Leishman, Oosthuizen already have at least two events under their belts with, in some cases at least, another one in prospect.

4).Most of the qualified Europeans will be playing, hoping to follow in the footsteps of Kaymer, Molinari, Poults, Knox and Rose; Dustin Johnson is the only past US winner in this week's field.

5).The Sanderson event is pretty much a battle of the "journeymen", but important to those playing nevertheless. Seamus Power and Martin Laird, for instance, need to jump start their season and take some momentum forward to "Vegas", Mayakoba and the RSM McGladrey. Dylan Frittelli has migrated from the European Tour and could similarly use a good result, while I'm interested in Aussies Curtis Luck (is he the real thing?) and their Open winner Cameron Davis.

5).Round 2 of the Champions Tour starts Friday in California, at Sherwood CC, one of my favourite venues for armchair watching - still remember Harrington absolutely ripping up the course when he won the Tiger exhibition a few years ago. Regardless, last week's 72 eligible players have been reduced to 54. Langer's leading, surprise, so far and he won here last year, but he's been less consistent and hopefully The Mechanic will have Rioja'd his gearbox and lend some Spanish swagger to the action.

6).And Second Stage Q-School gets underway next Tuesday, no significant European Tour refugees expected, but plenty of familiar names from the outer fringes of PGA Tour membership.

Cheers kwini,
Any idea why so many americans are the WGC? It’s not like some of them don’t travel travel to Asia.

No idea,
But there's nothing much financially to separate this WGC from, say, last week's effort in Korea. Perhaps they just prefer Korea to China?
And others just want a breather.

Also: One or two (e.g. Spieth) are playing Las Vegas next week just to get in their required "plus one" extra tournament. Not as if most need the loot, or even the collateral benefits/exemptions.

Before people start flinging the financial angle at me, I know. But the WGC designation of this event has always seemed pretty off. You could have given the label to one of the bigger ET events in the desert swing or even a popular event in the summer like the scottish or Irish opens when people are actually watching golf.

I have always thought this "WGC" might start to face field strength problems and maybe we are seeing the start of that.

Yet there are more FedEx cup points at stake at the WGC, plus, AFAIK, subsidised OWGR points. Should be sufficient incentive to at least most players.

No subsidy of owgr points - in fact, I think they went down with the withdrawal of Pepperell & Wood - but why did they withdraw? Food poisoning? Saw a tweet about Eddie p1ssing into a bottle, but no explanation . . . . . . .
(Strange seeing Eddie's mug-shot under Jason Scrivener's entry on the pgatour.com "leaderboard".)

kwinigolfer wrote: Saw a tweet about Eddie p1ssing into a bottle, but no explanation . . . . . . .

Probably hungover. Or drunk. Or both.

pedro wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote: Saw a tweet about Eddie p1ssing into a bottle, but no explanation . . . . . . .

Probably hungover. Or drunk. Or both.

Back to back by the sounds of it - doesn't say much for First Class on whatever airline they were flying. Never heard of Eddie having back problems before.

High %age of those Americans who DID make the trip at the top of the leaderboard.

Question: "PGA Tour: Where Have All The Americans Gone?"

Answer: To the projected top of the RtD"

https://twitter.com/EuropeanTour/status/1055472801862152192

Projected RtD standings after HSBC Rd1:

======================

Thoughts from Austin Cook's caddie on why US (and some Int'l) players skip the HSBC

https://twitter.com/KipHenley/status/1054842812804489216

Kwini, please do yourself a favor, don't read Kip's twitter timeline, it will upset you.

Good for Patrick Reed!

I only follow two twitter accounts, GPB; most of what I read from retweets etc is such utter garbage from the Oval Office down.
Only Ian Darke & Tony Johnstone worth the occasional look.

Perhaps this is why some Tour players avoid overseas; they can't drive their bus:

https://www.pgatour.com/champions/tour-insider/2018/10/24/mark-calcavecchia-invesco-qqq-championship-drives-bus-cross-country.html

Calc obviously plays the Champions Tour, but several PGA Tour players drive different versions of this type of behemoth; quite the campground at Shinnecock for instance.
Easy to see why it's not popular in GB&I; I've only been to one Open venue, but it wouldn't navigate the lanes to RSG too well, to name but one.

Catching some of the china event, its just very meh, with no crowd in a smog filled country with horrendous human rights. Is this what golf wants or needs? Players just going through the motions.

GPB wrote:Question:  "PGA Tour: Where Have All The Americans Gone?"

Answer:  To the projected top of the RtD"

https://twitter.com/EuropeanTour/status/1055472801862152192

Projected RtD standings after HSBC Rd1:

======================

Thoughts from Austin Cook's caddie on why US (and some Int'l) players skip the HSBC

https://twitter.com/KipHenley/status/1054842812804489216

Kwini, please do yourself a favor, don't read Kip's twitter timeline, it will upset you.

Bad excuse. They should just take a taxi to the city. It’s not that far away. It’s an interesting place with loads of good restaurants and bars.

Stadler missed the cut in his first PGATour event in over 3 years.

He is in the Vegas field, as is Freddie Jacobson who will be playing his first PGATour in nearly 18 months.

Rory must be thinking he got a on a slow boat to China.

Two triples and one double on par 5's this week.

Where have all the 606v2 dot com posters gone?

Nice come from behind win for the X-Man and Cam Champ wins the Mississippi event.

Champ led the webbie tour with a 340 yd avg off the tee last season.

He led the Sanderson Farms in driving avg with a 334 avg.  I don't know who was 2nd (PGATour sucks at reporting this kind of info) but I do know Patrick Rodgers  was 4th with a 306.8 yd avg

A ~10% difference between 1st and 4th is HUGE!

Edit, Tom Lovelady was #2 in driving distance.  314.9 yds. about a 6% difference.

GPB

This event was on early weekend mornings for European viewers so most folk were probably not following it. Also golf needs to take a break at some point and if it doesn't officially then I think the viewers will mentally give less of a toss about it at this point in the year. I know the R2D is still to conclude but the football season is warming up and the weather is cooling down so golf is moving to the back burner.

Lots happening though, even if it is on the other side of the world.


Didn't see a stroke of the WGC so have no idea why the huge disparity of scoring on each and every day, unless, as beninho suggests, it's just "Players going through the motions". I'd say that, somehow, that's true of just about every WGC.

Not least, guys like Rafa C-B, Casey and Aphibarnrat getting tournaments under their season's belt AND already well on their way to Top 125 qualifying for the Play-Offs.

Yup, Good to see Freddie Jac back, and even Stadler - both have played on the ET without much success.

Not sure if Cameron Champ is the latest Cody Gribble or another Justin Thomas (to name just a couple "fall" first-timer winners), but he was impressive yesterday, especially his brilliant shot into his 72nd hole. Don't imagine he'll be rushing to play the French Open though.

Sad to see the strength of next week's fields sees Las Vegas ahead of "Turkey".

I think PD is over-rating Vegas, I am getting a weakish 40, not 44 as PD projected in one of his tweets.

I didn't do the analysis for Turkey.

Mac, if Rose had won, I think there would have been a little more action on the threads.

2019 EuroTour schedule released

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/tournament/Season=2019/index_full.html

Some highlights and low lights.

Less tournaments (lost 4 events, mitigated with 3 new tournaments)

Abu Dhabi gets promoted to Rolex event. French Open loses Rolex status, and gets moved from its coveted spot between two Opens. I thought that date was sacrosanct (Keith Pelley said as much in 2016)

What is the typical weather in Paris in Mid to late October? Is the French Open withering on the vine?

Celtic Manor lost its event soon after hosting a Ryder Cup
Gleneagles lost its event soon after hosting a Ryder Cup
and now Le Club Nationale is losing some prestige.

One good thing, assuming it comes to pass, is the report that Tommy Fleetwood has offered to host the British Masters, for a year anyway, according to the Mail & golfchannel.com.

GPB,
My sources suggest that the French Open has been shifted to October at the request of the PGA Of America amidst reports the US Ryder Cup Team want to play, October being more convenient than June/July . . . . . have another go as it were. Special request of Messrs Mickelson & Woods apparently.

Hey all you slappies... How are you all doing?

Just wanted you to know I posted an updated Tour Schedule down below in a new post...

Regards to all of you.... Robo

"Slappies"?
That's a bit divisive with an election coming up.

Brilliant, Thanks for the post.

GPB wrote:

Mac, if Rose had won, I think there would have been a little more action on the threads.

You are probably right. Also Rory stinking it out doesn't really help. But I think in general this was a week for the harder core golf viewing fan, and I tend to get the feeling most of us on here are about playing rather than watching golf.



On the French Opens loss of Rolex status and change of date it does seem like it was just given the extra kudos as part of the RC hype train and now that is over an event (Abu Dhabi) that has recently had better fields gets the Rolex status. Makes the melt down about the French Open vs WGC seem pretty petty now if the French Opens date was as flexible as it now seems.

Strange story coming from Davis Love in the aftermath of the Ryder Cup:

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/report-davis-love-ii-dropped-ball-patrick-reed-paris


Too many chiefs in Furyk's camp, confusing the Indians? Made worse by Mickelson and Woods turning up without their arrows of course.

Kwini

Interesting and thanks for posting.  The key line for me is from Stricker; "We didn't see (Reed and Spieth not playing together) as an issue while we were there,".


Of course they didn't, Reed and Spieth are not children and you would think that they would just shut up and play with whoever they were told to play with.  Not sure why Love is blaming himself for Reed and/or Spieth behaving so petulantly.

Bar the rookies there seemed to be just one Indian on the US team:  Reed...

pedro wrote:Bar the rookies there seemed to be just one Indian on the US team:  Reed...

Sharma, Atwal, Bhuller, Lahiri aren't eligible

I see Spieth concludes his penance at Mayakoba - Tricky Rickie signed up there as well.

Guessing that Spieth's Bachelor Party is in Vegas this week, and Honeymoon practice in Cancun next week.

There was also a Coca-Cola corporate event in Vegas today, so I imagine Spieth (Brand Ambassador) made an appearance at Shadow Creek earlier today.

Rickie is playing Vegas as his new event this week. Last year he played Mayaboba

kwinigolfer wrote:I see Spieth concludes his penance at Mayakoba - Tricky Rickie signed up there as well.

what makes you think that's the end of Spieth's penance? Playing just two events this year is no real penalty at all, playing one each in 2 years or 2 in one year equal the same thing.

I think it's just the start of it. He'll probably be playing a 3rd new event this season, or he's going to have to play more than one new event for a number of years. If not, then it's entirely toothless regulation (unless the fine was a hell of a lot more than we think it was, and that's doubtful)

McLaren wrote:

Of course they didn't, Reed and Spieth are not children and you would think that they would just shut up and play with whoever they were told to play with.  Not sure why Love is blaming himself for Reed and/or Spieth behaving so petulantly.

we know Reed was a tool, but don't know how you bring Spieth into it? How do you imagine he was childish or petulant in any of this?

GPB wrote:I think PD is over-rating Vegas, I am getting a weakish 40, not 44 as PD projected in one of his tweets.  

I didn't do the analysis for Turkey.

You think Turkey's taking a hit, just wait till you see the field strength for Nedbank. It's going down for mid 40's to 32-34.  I think the top players learned last year that last 4 weeks of travel is just BS. (China to Turkey to South Africa to Dubai).  

Or maybe they just don't give a damn about this Rolex Series. The top eight highest-ranked Euro players have played a sum total of 4 regular ET events between them since the Tour Championship. And only 2 are entered this week and only 1 entered next week. 4 of the top eight ranked ET players will have played only 4 ET events assuming they all play Dubai.

PS. Can somebody tell me more about this new 4 event minimum... & how Reed still thinks he's eligible playing only 3? Or does the Ryder Cup count as one of the 4?  Seems to me all this new 4 minimum regulation is accomplishing, is making it easier for carpetbagging PGAT guys to swoop in and scoop up some easy bonus money, while at the same time incentivizing the top dual-tour players to play the European tour even less. Makes no sense to me at all.

robopz wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:I see Spieth concludes his penance at Mayakoba - Tricky Rickie signed up there as well.

what makes you think that's the end of Spieth's penance? Playing just two events this year is no real penalty at all, playing one each in 2 years or 2 in one year equal the same thing.

I think it's just the start of it. He'll probably be playing a 3rd new event this season, or he's going to have to play more than one new event for a number of years. If not, then it's entirely toothless regulation (unless the fine was a hell of a lot more than we think it was, and that's doubtful)

I hope you're right robo, I naively assumed two events would be the penalty. Fines on millionaires are a waste of time though. Unless they're in the $M's.

kwinigolfer wrote:

robopz wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:I see Spieth concludes his penance at Mayakoba - Tricky Rickie signed up there as well.

what makes you think that's the end of Spieth's penance? Playing just two events this year is no real penalty at all, playing one each in 2 years or 2 in one year equal the same thing.

I think it's just the start of it. He'll probably be playing a 3rd new event this season, or he's going to have to play more than one new event for a number of years. If not, then it's entirely toothless regulation (unless the fine was a hell of a lot more than we think it was, and that's doubtful)

I hope you're right robo, I naively assumed two events would be the penalty. Fines on millionaires are a waste of time though. Unless they're in the $M's.

assuming that it's more than just these two events, I like the nature of the penalty. The object of the new event regulation to begin with was to help out sponsors of some of the lesser events. Suspending a player certainly doesn't serve that end, but having to play even more certainly does.

And you're right about the fine. But no freaking way the PGA Tour is going to fine these rich guys enough to make it hurt. The Tour is owned and run by the players after all.

My take on the new ET schedule. Abu Dhabi and the BMW PGA come out the big winners. Irish open and Scottish open might be marginally improved. Dubai final maybe a tich better if a few of the full-time PGA Tour guys decide to carpetbag next year.

But almost everything else on the schedule is either not improved, or as many take a hit for any that are improved. The problem for the ET next fall is, The Duel tour guys are going to have to play some PGAT events too. The way it's been, a dual tour Euro could skip the 7 weeks of fall schedule except for maybe the HSBC and probably be OK. But next season that's going to be 10 or 11 weeks they would have to skip. They're going to realize real quick they can't do that and be competitive for that end of the season Mega Money grab. Plus it's going to be that much harder to make their 15 minimum on the PGA tour if they don't pick up some fall events. And that 4 minimum on the ET now, just exacerbates the problem.

Bottom line: IMO, looking at each individual element of the new ET schedule structure and ET membership rules, all of it looks fine on the surface. But once you put them all together, and add in the PGAT obligations for the dual tour guys (and recognizing there's no way Monahan simply lays down and let's the ET takeover the fall), there's some really really big issues brewing. And not just brewing, they're already showing up.

robopz wrote:My take on the new ET schedule.  Abu Dhabi and the BMW PGA come out the big winners.  Irish open and Scottish open might be marginally improved. Dubai final maybe a tich better if a few of the full-time PGA Tour guys decide to carpetbag next year.

But almost everything else on the schedule is either not improved, or as many take a hit for any that are improved.  The problem for the ET next fall is, The Duel tour guys are going to have to play some PGAT events too. The way it's been, a dual tour Euro could skip the 7 weeks of fall schedule except for maybe the HSBC and probably be OK. But next season that's going to be 10 or 11 weeks they would have to skip. They're going to realize real quick they can't do that and be competitive for that end of the season Mega Money grab. Plus it's going to be that much harder to make their 15 minimum on the PGA tour if they don't pick up some fall events.  And that 4 minimum on the ET now, just exacerbates the problem.  

Bottom line: IMO, looking at each individual element of the new ET schedule structure and ET membership rules, all of it looks fine on the surface.  But once you put them all together, and add in the PGAT obligations for the dual tour guys (and recognizing there's no way Monahan simply lays down and let's the ET takeover the fall), there's some really really big issues brewing. And not just brewing, they're already showing up.

Agreed 100%.
No sign that Pelley has any sort of strategerie. The ET can never expect to be the biggest, but they can be the best, albeit perhaps to a smaller membership. Falling badly between two stools as things stand. It feels the buzz from RC domination has already fizzled.

robopz wrote:

McLaren wrote:

Of course they didn't, Reed and Spieth are not children and you would think that they would just shut up and play with whoever they were told to play with.  Not sure why Love is blaming himself for Reed and/or Spieth behaving so petulantly.

we know Reed was a tool, but don't know how you bring Spieth into it? How do you imagine he was childish or petulant in any of this?

I brought Spieth in because he was the other party in the disagreement and Spieth didn't exactly spend the year running up to the event cosying up to Fatprick. I am sure Reed was the main instigator of the spat but until we hear otherwise it takes two to tango.

McLaren wrote:

robopz wrote:

McLaren wrote:

Of course they didn't, Reed and Spieth are not children and you would think that they would just shut up and play with whoever they were told to play with.  Not sure why Love is blaming himself for Reed and/or Spieth behaving so petulantly.

we know Reed was a tool, but don't know how you bring Spieth into it? How do you imagine he was childish or petulant in any of this?

I brought Spieth in because he was the other party in the disagreement and Spieth didn't exactly spend the year running up to the event cosying up to Fatprick. I am sure Reed was the main instigator of the spat but until we hear otherwise it takes two to tango.

I guess I must have missed something then. The only ones I saw having a spat was Reed, his wife, his mother-in-law having a spat with everyone. I didn't see Jordan or Furyk or anybody else having a spat back with Reed.

I really didn't think it was a controversial point to say that Reed and Spieth had a falling out. But to return to the article posted by kwini, should the captain and VC's really have to take the blame for players not having the maturity to follow basic orders?

McLaren wrote:I really didn't think it was a controversial point to say that Reed and Spieth had a falling out.  But to return to the article posted by kwini, should the captain and VC's really have to take the blame for players not having the maturity to follow basic orders?

I wouldn't see it is controversial either, if it happened. I'm just not sure it did, before anyway. But in light of Reeds comments after, I can see it very likely now.

I guess I must really have my head in the sand here. Who and what players didn't "follow orders"? I haven't heard any such thing... Can you give me specifics? From everything I saw/read before, during and after, all the players, captains and everybody involved were happy with the pairings, except ONE guy (who also played like crap in his two partner sessions)

The way I see it... USA got their ass beat mainly because 3 of our 4 Captain's picks stunk up the joint, and most of the rest of them couldn't hit France if the Tee Box was on the Eiffel Tower. In retrospect, it's a wonder it turned out as close as it did.

robo,
Does Reed still hang out at The Woodlands?

On a whole other topic, amazing to see the resumees of some pros who won't qualify for Final Stage qualifying for the web.com . . . . most likely further evidence that so much of the game is played between the ears.

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
Does Reed still hang out at The Woodlands?

On a whole other topic, amazing to see the resumees of some pros who won't qualify for Final Stage qualifying for the web.com . . . . most likely further evidence that so much of the game is played between the ears.

Yeah, Reed still works on his game on the back range at The Woodlands, abt a par-5 and a half from my backyard. That's where I first met him & Justine. And sheesh... talk about a couple of people who are entirely different in private. Just sitting around and shooting that the "chit" with that guy, you wouldn't have a clue he can be such a tool. And I mean not a single clue.

I haven't followed Q-school much this year. But yeah, from what I have seen, it's been a pretty rough go for quite a few recognizable named veterans. I did go over to the stage qualifier at the Gary Player course here. I went for lunch and intended to maybe walk 9 witb a local guy trying to advance, (friend of the family), in his 2nd round. But he had spit the bit in the morning, so I just watched a couple 3-4 groups tee off and then took a powder.

Only time I followed PR he was wearing some Ryder Cup strides - in Hartford! But he was fine on the course. JR seems a piece of work - strange couple.

NedBank Euro Tour Rolex Series "playoff" event... OUCH... Looks to be 30-32 range. WAY down from it's usual mid-40's. Mayakoba will be 38-40 range.

I mentioned earlier about golfers fulfilling the ET obligations. I thought Reed had to play 2 more ET events. If he doesn’t play Nedbank is he still eligible for Dubai?

I'm never wrong wrote:I mentioned earlier about golfers fulfilling the ET obligations. I thought Reed had to play 2 more ET events. If he doesn’t play Nedbank is he still eligible for Dubai?

I've been wondering about that. He talked like he was playing Dubai. But unless the Ryder Cup counts as an event I don't see how.  But maybe Pelley will give him another free pass, you know, being one of the heroes of the Ryder Cup for the Euros and all...