Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

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Part 2

The Great Aukster wrote:

clivemcl wrote:It’s all very well us in the know understanding the small squad, the IRFU restrictions, the need for testing key player, balancing the priorities of one competition against another, but what about growing the sport and fan base. Or even simply maintaining the more casual supporter/fairweather fan.

What is a 'fairweather fan' - someone who jumps on the bandwagon of success but has no loyalty to the team. Should Ulster Rugby be formulating their strategy around such fickleness?

Ulster won the European Cup with almost exclusively homegrown players and there were 49,000 fans at the final - less than a year later Ulster lost to Bourgoin in front of a 6000 strong Ravenhill crowd to finish winless at the bottom of their pool. The difference? Ulster 'strengthened' the team by signing Paddy Johns, Eric Millar, Dion O’Cuinneagain, Riaz Fredericks and Joeli Veitayaki. All arguably better players than their predecessors (including Joeli at least on paper) but they were outsiders and the team unity had gone.

Ulster have a decent first team but those players cannot play every game. They need proficient understudies and that depth has to be developed because it has been neglected for years. In the short term Ulster have to attract players other provinces don't want, but the goal has to be to produce their own. Even against Leinster 2nds the young players will have learned a lot.

It was summed up by Caleb Montgomery conceding a naive penalty, drawn by Conor O'Brien. COB has 4 senior caps despite being in the Leinster Academy and plays for Clontarf at the top of the AIL. Claleb Montgomery is a year older and in the Ulster senior squad despite having no appearances before last night. He plays for Banbridge who are in the lower half of AIL 1B. Ulster need to saturate (no more than) two teams with all their academy/development players to get at least one into AIL 1A. Otherwise the step up is too great.

Ach, c'mon. Well done O'Brien on having senior caps, but Lowry has more, Hume has more, O'Toole has more, Kernohan has more, Dalton has more, O'Sullivan has more, Curtis has more. Montgomery is an exception - he's literally there on the back of club rugby, is he not? Pouting out that O'Brien has caps as an Academy player as some sort of comparative criticism of Ulster is mind-boggling.

We are now having to rely on our academy. It's going to be a difficult season. As is next, while Hall, Dunleavy, Rea Jr, Moore, Regan et al come through. There's no shortcut. Next season will be dispiriting as well.

Leinster are streets ahead of anyone else. There were B&I Lions on that team.

Leinster and Munster prospects play in a higher standard league every week than their Ulster equivalents. It is indeed mind boggling that Ulster fans don't consider that a disadvantage.

The point is that irrespective of senior caps O'Brien is starting from a higher level.

Leinster may have had a a few more experienced players, but truthfully there were many players who had comparable low number of caps on boths ides.

The truth is, Leinsters' youngsters and squad players just hit the ground running, ours however look incredibly green in contrast. Is it training? Do we concentrate our good training on only the key top 22 of the squad?

OR is it that Leinster's youngsters and squad players are just playing better standard of rugby even when not getting Leinster caps?

It's become a bit of a cliche, and I'm not sure I believe it - but the story will go that somehow those youngsters from yesterday evening will have learned something and gained experience, and be better for Ulster down the line as a result.
Sometimes I can't help but feel that belief is utter BS.

We fielded an academy side with no intention of winning (regardless of accepting fan's money), and those lads are so far off the pace because they don't regularly play good rugby. Their only chance is to gain knowledge and skill in training and by getting the odd game along with most of the key players.

We keep being told about ulster rebuilding and thats why we've got restrictions on this or that. If IRFU really wanted to improve Ulster to Leinster's standard, the standard of rugby below Ulster senior games is the glaringly obvious place to start.

Clive I understand you are angry and disappointed but you are being incredibly harsh. I don’t know your background as a player or whether you have coached rugby before, but I have played to a decent level and coach to a high level in the women’s game too. In recent season I have been fortunate enough to produce quite a few Scarlet ladies and welsh internationals, so I do have a bit of an insight into developing raw players into high achievers. To say that those youth players won’t have gained anything from yesterday’s defeat is wrong, they will have gained a lot. Players take time to develop and mould, it’s through experiences like yesterday that that is achieved. It’s right that these players development is stifled somewhat due to the level they are playing week in week out, and that does need address.

To develop these guys we need to expose them to higher playing standards. Some of those young guys will have had a rude awakening that they weren’t as good as they thought they were and that they have to start pushing themselves harder if they realistically want to break into the firsts. It’s true that uslter are in transition, but it takes time to build strong foundations.

The Great Aukster wrote:Yes it is short term - but only until more players start coming into the system. There are too few players of the required standard to spread them over lower divisions. They aren't getting the exposure or the intensity to ready them for the next level.

Except if you plump them all n one place the rest fall further behind and you also damage a development pathway in the club game.

Not only that but anytime Ulster need a raft of young players you significantly weaken those clubs whereas currently that isn't always felt

BelfastDickVet wrote:Clive I understand you are angry and disappointed but you are being incredibly harsh. I don’t know your background as a player or whether you have coached rugby before, but I have played to a decent level and coach to a high level in the women’s game too. In recent season I have been fortunate enough to produce quite a few Scarlet ladies and welsh internationals, so I do have a bit of an insight into developing raw players into high achievers. To say that those youth players won’t have gained anything from yesterday’s defeat is wrong, they will have gained a lot. Players take time to develop and mould, it’s through experiences like yesterday that that is achieved. It’s right that these players development is stifled somewhat due to the level they are playing week in week out, and that does need address.

To develop these guys we need to expose them to higher playing standards. Some of those young guys will have had a rude awakening that they weren’t as good as they thought they were and that they have to start pushing themselves harder if they realistically want to break into the firsts. It’s true that uslter are in transition, but it takes time to build strong foundations.

How many of the young players though would have benefited from playing with Best, Cooney, Stockdale or Addison? Too often we see the young guys all thrown in at the deep end together. How much better would it have been to spread resources across three games? Of the 4 I mentioned would it have been to much to split those four over the 3 games and sprinkle it with an AOC in two games a Nagle in two and a Treadwell in one a Dalton in one etc and have the young guys spread out too with some of the squad guys. Would the intensity and accuracy have improved against Leinster? Would guys learn more?

I don’t disagree with you there and yes the game may not have been as much of a white wash if they had some “older heads” out there.

Many on here have been quite critical of Cooney this year, and Shanahan is actually our top try scorer this season so far, I actually thought McBurnley was one of the best players on the pitch, he had a real edge and showed more than herring has this year. Our props were seasoned players, albeit they haven’t had much gametime due to injury, AOC has captained the team a fair bit this year, Sean Reidy and Nick Timmoney have had a fair amount of game time too. Arguably Coetzee would have been in that backrow had he not been out with concussion. That could have made a huge difference, experience wise.

I think the backs really did lack experience and a strong defensive leader which addision would have brought. I like Cave but he looked as though he was trying to do everything leading to him achieving very little. The old cliché that you won’t win championships with kids, is true and exposing our young guns in games like this is very important long term, but as suggested it may serve them better to give them a bit more support in the form of more senior dispersed amongst the team. I would also say this can’t be their only outing this season and that we need them on the pitch more often.

There are Pro’s and Con’s here, I was just addressing the point that Clive made that he thought that belief that the players gained from last night’s defeat was BS. At the end of the day this is those fellas full time job, when you get a hammering like that, it’s a stark reminder to them how good they actually have to be to make it as a pro rugby player and it may have been the incentive they needed to push them onto hitting that next level or accepting they will never get to that point. Being a coach is brutal, as everyone is a critic, everyone knows how to do things better and the problems are always obvious. It’s tough, but these guys know what they are doing.

Is there really that much of a quality difference between division 1A and 1B? There are platy of Ulster clubs in 1B.
Even if 1A is a good bit better than 1B the Welsh Prem would be even higher, yet the Welsh youngsters don't come into the regional teams as better thab the Leinster players because of it. It would be better to have teams in 1A but its not the magic solution.

There is a lot to be said about a team culture and ethos, Leinster have a winning formula which breeds a certain type of confidence in all their players, from Jonny sexton right down to their academy boys. The issues don’t necessarily lie just in the standard of the Ulster teams in the AIL. I believe this change in ethos in Ulster is part of the rebuild, but that does take time to filter through the ranks.

I see it here in wales in the women’s game, Swansea women have the same formulae, the same self-belief, which feeds into the Ospreys and is why they get so many into he national15’s and 7’s team.

A very real issue is that we are obsessed by the two extremes - Best, Hendo, Addison, Cooney, Stockdale or the pups.

We have a raft of players - our stalwarts - who, at this stage, have never played knockout rugby. Has O'Connor? Has Reidy? Has Timoney? Treadwell? The latter two are forwards and are 23 - they have years to improve. Take Chris Henry as an example. At 22/23 he was an underpowered Ulster 8. It was another what? - three or four years? - before his first cap, and another few years after that before Joe Schimdt spoke about cooking up a gameplan to nullify him when Leinster took the pitch.

Chris completely grew into his role. But part of that was high-pressure HEC games and league knockout games surrounded by Pienaar, Ferris, Jackson, Spence, Trimble et al. We need those kinds of players I've mentioned to get that experience. If we get enough points from the remaining two European games to get to a quarter-final, that will be a first for a lot of our guys - and I'm not just talking about the Humes, O'Sullivans and Lowrys.

We have the smallest squad of the provinces by a distance. Less reliable, experienced NIEs than any other province. We need to pick and choose our battles. Maybe McFarland et al think if we can focus on these two HEC games, we can learn more, and still get some knockout rugby in the Pro14. Are they right? I hope so.

This is Payne's apprenticeship as a defence coach. And Leinster are the best club/provincial side in Britain or Ireland, possibly there are one or two at their level in France. Was it pleasant to support Ulster in that game? No, it absolutely was not. But if you think this is the same as last year, you are 100% wrong. Even if we ended the season at precisely the same position in the league and won our game to get into the HEC the following season, it would not have been the same. At the end of Lam's first season, a good few Connacht fans wanted rid. Because they were having a very hard time, while he disassembled and rebuilt the team. But Connacht's management stood by him. Let's allow McFarland the same latitude.

Anyone else hear anything about McCall picking up a season ending injury?

marty2086 wrote:Anyone else hear anything about McCall picking up a season ending injury?

Only what's been speculated upon on t'other site but they are claiming it's season over for him.

Pete330v2 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Anyone else hear anything about McCall picking up a season ending injury?

Only what's been speculated upon on t'other site but they are claiming it's season over for him.

He looked absolutely gutted and disappointed - I wouldn't be surprised.

I'm just challenging the viewpoints I've heard from other people over the months.

Is it youngsters getting lack of gametime, or is it that we concentrate our good training on only the key seniors?
Leinsters similarly low number of caps youngsters seem to adapt better/quicker.

To me that's not so much about senior gametimes, and more about either training or the quality of the other rugby they regularly play.

Some have said the solution is to give youngsters gametime, and that getting rid of some contracts was necessary for both that, and to save money.

In terms of money, you won't encourage more through the gates by fielding teams like that. In terms of gametime for youngsters - the experience given to some of our youngsters didn't exactly help them when they were left high and dry without their key players next to them. In terms of contracts - I wouldn't have complained if we had the likes Diack or Tuohy or Browne etc available this past weekend.

Give our youngsters better training, and give them better quality of rugby before they play for seniors - no?

If he is out, Ulster need a medical joker and that'll take time so we'll have two looseheads and 3 locks for the next few months

clivemcl wrote:I'm just challenging the viewpoints I've heard from other people over the months.

Is it youngsters getting lack of gametime, or is it that we concentrate our good training on only the key seniors?
Leinsters similarly low number of caps youngsters seem to adapt better/quicker.

To me that's not so much about senior gametimes, and more about either training or the quality of the other rugby they regularly play.

Some have said the solution is to give youngsters gametime, and that getting rid of some contracts was necessary for both that, and to save money.

In terms of money, you won't encourage more through the gates by fielding teams like that. In terms of gametime for youngsters - the experience given to some of our youngsters didn't exactly help them when they were left high and dry without their key players next to them. In terms of contracts - I wouldn't have complained if we had the likes Diack or Tuohy or Browne etc available this past weekend.

Give our youngsters better training, and give them better quality of rugby before they play for seniors - no?

Leinsters youngsters tend to get blooded with seasoned pros though, the likes of Stockdale, Kernoghan, EOS etc when they come in with most of our senior 15 seem to perform. When they aren't there the overall performance sees to drop

Yea and it's a shame Marty - you wonder if it impacts their own mentality. Previous to the weekend, most probably viewed Lyttle and Kernohan as fairly hot prospects. Neither seemed to be from that game IMO.

I should add I blame the approach to the game as part of the problem, everyone viewed it as a defeat going in

This is why I think the mix and match approach would have been better long term. If we approach all three games equally as if we had to rotate but want to win and put the pressure on to perform then it may have had a bigger impact on the players and created that bit more of a learning experience.

I saw one fan on Facebook talking about Cave later in the game when it was already lost joking and laughing with some of the other players. If it is true, it maybe says a lot about the attitude the players had in the game

Like I said, UR straight away had an interview with Houston on Youtube. I don't mean to be harsh, he's only young and probably nervous on camera. But he must have said 'great' ten times and 'amazing' 8 times. And at no point was the loss mentioned never mind any sign of disappointment.

I just don't think there was ANY pressure at all on anyone in this game. Not even in terms of 'putting your hand up' - almost like they were told 'you will not be judged on this'.

Cave is on the Rugby Pod again this week, I'm sure he'll be talking about it

Looks like the clearout continues too, being reported in SA Herbst is going to the Blues before the Super Rugby season starts

Are we that hard up for cash? It would be one thing if he was NIQ bit he's IQ (now).
Are we saving up for some big marquee signings or something?


Edit: He was maybe on more money than he now warrants though, and maybe wasn't happy with a pay cut offer.

Herbst would be a shame. He's a sicknote, but a decent enough player when he's fit. Not amazed but solid enough. Pay cut maybe, but can't imagine Blues would pay him what we are.

On the culture bit, I appreciate what everyone is saying. For context though, it is 1 game against the best team in Europe. We've been incredibly lucky with injuries thus far but the starting XXIII is beginning to fall apart because of overuse. If we want to blame anyone it's the squad management over the last 4 months rather than the last couple of weeks. We played more youngsters at the start of the season than we have recently and they look suitably rusty.

On the game itself, I actually though it was could have been worse. Much worse. I thought our defensive structures were pretty good, it was just horrific individual (Kernohan had about 3 nightmare attempts at a tackle in 10 mins) mistakes and/or sustained Leinster pressure which saw us concede.
The forwards looked like they had been coached and while they didn't make much, if any, distance in contact they all looked like they knew what they should be doing. The backs less so, we're still playing too much from 9.

Individually,

Hume looked our best player. Trying to make things happen. Not as big as McCloskey but certainly physical
Stewart just isn't rated. Most of the comments I see thought he upped the tempo when he came on (as you'd expect from a sub 9) but that they gave him 9 mins considering Cooney has had a number of knocks recently .... our management team just don't fancy him.
Kernohan had a mare in defence. He just didn't look upto the task, which in itself is shocking. We've known that Speight was leaving. Kernohan knew that Speight was leaving. He needed to be ready, he wasn't. Maybe that's to Clive's point about attitude. I just don't know how he could be so off the pace.
Lyttle I thought showed up quite well. He's small-ish but big enough to play and though he'd been out for a long time he looked lively, which is something considering he's a wing playing in a team with zero go-forward ball.
Lowry took another heavy knock. I really don't want to write him off. I want someone to be able to convince me that he's going to make it but my brain just doesn't allow for it. Yes he's taken a bad knock but then he's of that sort of size that he's always going to be taking those sorts of knocks. In the games he's played he's been a high tackle magnet, which while might be good for Ulster, is incredibly bad for such a young player. I can't remember the other games but I'm sure he's taken blows to the head before. At the very least Ulster need to be keeping a very keen eye on his recovery. On the Cronin's tries I'd say a hooker would score both chance 60-70% of the time, but neither attempt did he even make a dent in his progress. He'll need to score a lot from 15 to make up that sort of size differential.
McPhillips ...... I don't really remember much about. I suppose that's a fair to middling comment given the lack of possession, let alone good possession, that we enjoyed. I guess his kicking was fine. I do like that he takes 20+ seconds for the kicks to touch to max out the distance.

Starting to look like there's cost cutting going on, it's one Im torn on. When fit he's a decent option to have and I'd have him ahead of O'Toole for now but problem is he's not fit enough of the time and like eyou guys are saying he may be getting more than Ulster are willing to pay.

He came in as a very good player then just seemed to regress year on year under Clarke and injury didn't help. I'll go back to the S&C staff again, are they getting it right when it comes to prepping some of the players? Do we even have a new Head of S&C yet?

Redman it wasn't just 1 game though, it was the three. We targeted Munster, Connacht was we'll see what we can get and Leinster was written off. For this season it may well work out for the best but for creating young players who thrive under pressure I'd question it, surely the attitude should be going to win every game, I doubt Leinster do anything less than that

Folks. If an Ulster team with a rested, revitalised O'Sullivan, Best, Murphy, Coetzee, Cooney, Burns, Stockdale, McCloskey, Addison and Ludik get the win against Racing, no-one will ever think about that Leinster game again.

In fact, a draw or both bonus points might be enough.

Or... if we don't get the Europe wins, followed by a typical Ulster slip up against a Treviso team (who are now above us in the conference), and suddenly we are a useless team again and ticket sales fall and season tickets drop again for next season...

... then the rebuild will continue.

We have fired Ah You, Van Der Merwe and now Herbst out of a cannon. There is clearly zero appetite for letting our situation go on as is. There is nothing conservative about this year. No "ah, but we still need to win games". No "we've already lot a load of players, let's keep these average ones on the books; we know they can play to Pro14 level".

This is open heart surgery on the province. The timescale given to rebuild has been given as three to five years. We're six months into it. They are gearing up the rotten roots. I for one am glad.

Yep, it very much looks like we are aiming for the QF, not out of endeavour to win competitions, but simply to bring money into the business.

We have managed to win some games well, but the club don't seem at all to be getting carried away about any notions of 'success'.

Unfortunately it looks and feels like being hamstrung. Hope they don't put off more fans than they already have in the process.

I think it was probably the right decision not to send the first team down to Leinster. I think from a playing perspective in all likelihood we would still have lost and then could have had injuries that were not necessary and certainly tired players heading into 2 european games we could win and qualify from.

In terms of casual fans I don't think many will have been put off by that. Simply because I don't think any will have been watching. The match was away so there wasn't any showing up to Kingspan because Leinster were in town and I suspect the only casual tv viewers we will get this season are on the European games.

Not because of the quality of opposition but because of the channel. The European games are on BT Sport and so a fair few people will have this channel to watch other things like the football, boxing, ufc etc and so may think lets watch the Ulster game.

The league games are on Premier Sports which is something you again like BT Sport have to pay for. However with the best will in the world you would likely only buy it for rugby since there is nothing else on there of any real interest unless you like Nascar.

Therefore a casual fan won't shell out for it and anyone who has shelled out is likely to know the story behind Ulster this year and understand the result.

Yea Neil, you are likely right. If any damage was done to casual fans, it is likely minimal compared to the Premier Sports deal as a whole.

I for one know a few people who would have watched Ulster games fairly regular, but were no way going to pay for Premier Sport.

Good luck exciting them into more committed support of the team or attendance!


Upon reflection I think the team probably had enough experienced guys on paper. But truth is, some guys don't really step up from being a supporting role in a starting XV to being a key player in a weaker side. Reidy or Timoney for example. Cave... well... I think he's just past it. So many times he thought he saw a gap and the door was way too easily shut in his face.

I do think it is harder to get new supporters and attract fans when you are on a network that really doesn't have much else attracting people. You then very much rely on people decided to go for a night out to Kingspan or something along those lines.

Its one thing being on Sky or BT which are both pay channels but channels with things that attract a lot of people to them and there is more chance of picking up some other viewers. Having a highlights show on BBC or something would at least be something.

neilthom7 wrote:I do think it is harder to get new supporters and attract fans when you are on a network that really doesn't have much else attracting people.  You then very much rely on people decided to go for a night out to Kingspan or something along those lines.

Its one thing being on Sky or BT which are both pay channels but channels with things that attract a lot of people to them and there is more chance of picking up some other viewers.  Having a highlights show on BBC or something would at least be something.

Didn't Ulster grow the attendances while the league games were being shown on Setanta?

Few observation

Whilst the 1999 were largely home grown there were at least 3 born elsewhere - Mason, Fitzpatrick, Ward so not entirely home grown
Coaching questioned - the coaching is of the highest standard and a million miles better than the last 5 years
Attitude questioned - sorry that is bull. This is a motived group of players doing their best
Should we have split the team so some front liners were playing against Leinster. Absolutely not.
After Cardiff, Scarlets x2 and Munster our front liners were collectively out on their feet - particularly O'Sullivan, Moore and Treadwell.
Questioning whether the youngsters learnt anything away to Leinster - they would have learnt loads
Questioning whether or not putting out such sides affects crowds - not at all. What does effect crowds is the home performances

We really need to understand how bad things were in the summer - 3 years of gross incompetence both on and off the field.
We will have to target games in the short term - this year and next given the realities we face.
There are more Munster away and Leinster away type matches to come - learn to live with it

We are in a poor financial state and will not be signing mega stars - well  maybe 1/2 half decent but that is it

As Bryn said this is a 3 year rebuild there are no short cuts
Will we win anything in 18-19 - not a chance
Will we win anything in 19-20 - not a chance
Will we win anything in 20-21 - very unlikely
Will we win anything in 21-22 - maybe

What's the mood like as you prepare for Racing?

geoff999rugby wrote:
We are in a poor financial state and will not be signing mega stars - well  maybe 1/2 half decent but that is it

When you say we're in a poor financial state do you mean the coffers are bare or purse strings need tightening?

clivemcl wrote:Yea Neil, you are likely right. If any damage was done to casual fans, it is likely minimal compared to the Premier Sports deal as a whole.

I for one know a few people who would have watched Ulster games fairly regular, but were no way going to pay for Premier Sport.

Good luck exciting them into more committed support of the team or attendance!

The last thing Ulster need right now is to pander to unrealistic expectations of casual fans and certainly it shouldn't factor into team selection.

Injury update

Kyle McCall sustained a significant hamstring injury and will see a surgeon later this week for further opinion.

Angus Kernohan sustained a hamstring strain and is expected to be unavailable until mid-February.

Michael Lowry sustained a concussion and will follow the return to play protocols.

geoff999rugby wrote:
We really need to understand how bad things were in the summer - 3 years of gross incompetence both on and off the field.
We will have to target games in the short term - this year and next given the realities we face.
There are more Munster away and Leinster away type matches to come - learn to live with it

If we keep going in with an attitude of that's not a winnable game year on year, does that not risk becoming accepted practise though?

I understand the reality but it can be a risky too

LondonTiger wrote:What's the mood like as you prepare for Racing?

Despite a disappointing interpro series, I'm pretty positive about these next couple of games. I'm expecting a big performance on Saturday and think we have a great chance of getting QF spot.

Henderson is a massive loss though.

I think it’s defeatist to say we won’t even ‘maybe’ win silverware till 21/22.

And it wouldn’t be wise of a club to voice such a pessimistic outlook.

This season, most fans and pundits have gotten understandably buoyant after a string of good wins and performances.

It doesn’t seem like s good idea for mentality of either the players or the fans to be dousing that with a bucket of cold water and a ‘catch yer self on’ response.

I’m curious to better understand what has caused the sudden lack of money? Down on ticket sales, but surely up in tv deal? We’ve only one  NIQ contract and we had a lot of probably higher earners retire, and  a heck of a lot of mid level contracts have left or been terminated.

Annual report had it that cut backs were made with the knowledge ticket sales and season tickets would be down with a breakeven forcast, not a surplus.
I guess that the sponsorship, Naming rights etc wasn't used a little each year but blown by Logan in an attempt to get silverware before he left, rather than leave heathly accounts for the next person coming in.

clivemcl wrote:I’m curious to better understand what has caused the sudden lack of money? Down on ticket sales, but surely up in tv deal? We’ve only one  NIQ contract and we had a lot of probably higher earners retire, and  a heck of a lot of mid level contracts have left or been terminated.

Allegedly the IRFU have cut funding due to a variety of reasons.
- The higher earners retiring is no coincidence, as the IRFU weren't going to continue paying Trimble, Bowe and Henry and that money doesn't keep coming to UR.
- Ulster Rugby had to pay the full remainder of the Jackson/Olding contracts, including the IRFU contribution.
- The IRFU also helped fund past as well as current project players, but that was withdrawn hence the exodus of Ah You, Diack, SVdM, and now possibly Herbst.
- Fringe Test players from Ulster aren't justifying their cut from the IRFU ahead of the provincial competition
- UR had to pay severance to the contracted backroom staff who were 'let go'.

Just going back over some annual reports, Ulster had cash reserves of £1.5m at the end of April 2017, a year later this was £700k. They blamed slower ticket sales last season as the reason, total ticket sales fell 14553 in total last year, most expensive ticket though is about £40 a head which works out at £580k at most.

I'm sure that's an overinflated figure so that leaves another £200k at least the report doesn't state what has eaten into it. Professional Game costs though increased by £300k so that could be it but that doesn't include the fact sponsorship and other revenues were up.

Factor in though that the fall in attendances isn't just at the gate that's felt, concessions and merchandise sales will be affected too.

Given the forecast, you'd expect that £700k reserve to be eaten into this season too

Cutting funding is a bit different from us struggling financially.

I feel a bit better about hearing that now. Should we regain the IRFU's trust there's always the hope that the funding could return or they would allow us specific cash for specific purposes. I.e. re-signing Coetzee.

The IRFU haven't reduced Ulsters budget they've increased it, as with all the provinces this year.

The belt tightening is due to projected wage inflation and Ulster have been hit by the devalued pound against the Euro, which they are trying to mitigate against as is forecast to worsen.

Surely if our funding is in €s converting to £s then that'd be a good thing for us? A weakening £ would hurt our contribution back to the IRFU.

The wage bill savings of Jackson, Olding, Bowe, Trimble, Henry and co. must be nearing £700k.

Lots of different factors but I suppose I just can't understand how we're struggling financially.

Because the previous regime blew the budget following a go broke attempt at success which didn't work.
At the same time the infrastructure was being ignored and now is in drastic need of repair.
Also a fair bit of waste and incompetence...
I really hope that the true stupidity of Logan fully comes to light one day

As an aside have a friend who works for Bryson House, he has already sussed out Logan for the bullshitter he is

My guess on the Team is:

O'Sullivan, Best, Moore, Treadwell, Nagle, Reidy, Coetzee, Murphy
Cooney, Burns, Balcoune (sp?), McCloskey, Addison, Stockdale, Ludik
Bench:Warwick, Herring, Kane, AOC, Timoney, Shanahan, McPhillips, Lowry/Cave

EDIT: AOC could swap for one of the 2nd Rows

Are we that bare that we are down to Balacoune? That gives me some concern I must say. I’d probably have Lowry and Ludik on wing. But Lowry may not be available since he didn’t return to pitch after HIA.

Any update on Luke Marshall - anyone in the know?