Pro14: Dragons vs Edinburgh 25/11

by EWT Spoons Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:15 am

Dragons vs Edinburgh

Venue: Rodney Parade

Sunday 25th November

KO 17.30

TV: Premier Sports & S4C

Last time out: Dragons 12 - 25 Edinburgh
Record: Played each other 30 times, Edinburgh edging it (only marginally) 16 wins to 13 (with 1 draw in the mix as well)

Both teams are likely to be missing a number of players with Wales and Scotland in action the day before.
Also the sh*ttest KO time going, if you factor in the internationals the day before, I would imagine there will be max 5 Edinburgh fans travelling for this game.

by EWT Spoons Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:24 am

With the Scotland squad being announced I'm going to take a stab at the Edinburgh team. Want to see how wrong I get it when it's announced later today.

1. Shoeman
2. Ford
3. McCallum
4. Hodgson
5. CHH
6. Wynne/Crosbie (if fit)
7. Miller
8. Hamilton
9. Pyrgos
10. Hickey
11. Duhan
12. Dean
13. JJ
14. Brown
15. Fife

by **BigGee** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:31 am

That back row looks a lot lighter without Mata in it. The whole back 5 in fact is very inexperienced.

Crosbie is out, Cockers already said that in his interview earlier in the week.

It won't be an easy game this one, the Drags don't give up many players to Wales and will probably fancy this one. They will be good points in the bag if they can get them.

by EWT Spoons Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:36 am

The BR played well last time out against Scarlets, but obviously as you say Mata was in there.

It's a young team, but CHH and Hodgson are developing well and are both big lads.

With that said, Dragons have to be favourites for this game.

by **RiscaGame** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:40 am

This game is on S4C too. We’ve given up 6 (now 7) players to Wales this autumn, which is significant when there isn’t much/any depth as it is.

We apparently will have just Amos and Tyler Morgan back from Team Wales. I wouldn’t be surprised if Amos started and Morgan was on the bench.

Be interested to see what is selected in a bit. It seems like Tovey is starting, which is a bit of a surprise given we have other tens available again.

by **RDW** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:42 am

All of the Scotland players not playing this weekend have been released to Glasgow so I'd be surprised if Toolis isn't playing, which will add a great deal of bulk and experience to that back 5!

As Biggee said the Dragons will be gunning for this game given the number of players Edinburgh have lost and the fact that they won't have lost as many. We have a strong front row and if Toolis plays the 2nd row will be competitive too. Back row is a concern but that backline is only 3 or so players off our first choice. Darcy Graham will be on the right wing I reckon.

We should still have enough to win if we perform (especially given most of that squad beat the Scarlets last game out) but it is going to be a tough one.

by EWT Spoons Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:58 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:All of the Scotland players not playing this weekend have been released to Glasgow so I'd be surprised if Toolis isn't playing, which will add a great deal of bulk and experience to that back 5!.

Forgot about Toolis possibly being released.

Although given he's played in a lot of games in the Autumn I'm not sure if he's due a rest

by Stone Motif Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:19 am

Are Edinburgh fans genuinely worried about this one?

by **RDW** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:29 am

Yes! Even if Toolis plays we have a very inexperienced back 5, and we have generally struggled this season when we don't have out Scotland players available.

by **BigGee** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:51 am

You would imagine that both Gilchrist and Toolis will need a match off prior to Euro double header with Newcastle. You might think that it would make more sense to rest BT this week, then GG the next. Straight after the Newcastle games is the double header with Glasgow as well, so there is a lot of high intensity rugby to come.

I would be very surprised if he does not have to rest Nel, McInally, Berghan, Watson and Ritchie next weekend as well or at least some of them.

by **RDW** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:54 am

Edinburgh have actually been hit quite hard this series (can't imagine we'll get any sympathy from Glasgow fans!) with Dell, McInally, Nel, Berghan, GG, Toolis, Ritchie and Watson all with high minutes across the 4 games - that's our entire starting pack almost!

They'll definitely need a rest before the Euro double header.

Good point about resting Toolis but this is a game we must win so I think he might play - chances of us winning in Munster are slim (especially given all their big test players are being rested this weekend so might be playing next weekend)

by Stone Motif Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:56 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Yes! Even if Toolis plays we have a very inexperienced back 5, and we have generally struggled this season when we don't have out Scotland players available.

You know how sh1te we are right?

by **RDW** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:57 am

Stone Motif wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Yes! Even if Toolis plays we have a very inexperienced back 5, and we have generally struggled this season when we don't have out Scotland players available.
You know how sh1te we are right?

You're still a competitive team playing at home on a Sunday afternoon which is a crap time to play - it's certainly not a foregone conclusion we'll win this.

by **RiscaGame** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:00 am

Cheers Edinburgh supporters for doing your best to turn super doubters, into just doubters.

If Jackman gets his selection right, I might consider a losing bonus point. Sadly, there’s always something up his sleeve.

by Stone Motif Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:04 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Yes! Even if Toolis plays we have a very inexperienced back 5, and we have generally struggled this season when we don't have out Scotland players available.
You know how sh1te we are right?

You're still a competitive team playing at home on a Sunday afternoon which is a crap time to play - it's certainly not a foregone conclusion we'll win this.

You've got a different definition of competitive than me. And team.

by **RDW** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:07 am

The problem is that Edinburgh's gameplan relies heavily on out muscling the opposition. That's all fair and well with all the Scotland players I mentioned previously but we're going to have kids in the 2nd row and back rows. Cockers generally hasn't been able to adapt his tactics - I bet we still do one out passes and pick and goes getting us nowhere for 30 phases!

by Stone Motif Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:11 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:The problem is that Edinburgh's gameplan relies heavily on out muscling the opposition.

Not so much a problem as a foregone conclusion against our lot. Kids and vets are our meat and tatties, as it were.

by EWT Spoons Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:32 am

Charlie Sheil has been left out of the currie squad this weekend, most likely option is that he's injured/being rested/rotated.

Total balls out suggestion - He's making his way to Wales to be part of the squad taking on the Dragons.

I'm mean it's massively unlikely given he'll have a young pack ahead of him, so to put him behind them would be pretty harsh for a debut. But.....

by munkian Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:52 am

I hope we get absolutely smashed off the park.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 23 Nov 2018, 11:12 am

munkian wrote:I hope we get absolutely smashed off the park.

Why on earth would you say that?

by Stone Motif Fri 23 Nov 2018, 11:43 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
munkian wrote:I hope we get absolutely smashed off the park.

Why on earth would you say that?

Gwlad-tastic schadenfreude

by EWT Spoons Fri 23 Nov 2018, 12:01 pm

Well as predicted, I did terribly at suggesting the Edinburgh team. Totally forgot Graham had been released from the Scotland squad as well.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 23 Nov 2018, 12:01 pm

Dragons: J Williams, J Rosser, T Morgan, J Sage, H Amos, J Tovey, R Williams, R Bevington, R Hibbard (captain), L Fairbrother, R Landman, L Evans, H Keddie, N Cudd, O Griffiths. Replacements: R Lawrence, A Jarvis, L Brown, B Nansen, J Benjamin, R Davies, A Robson, A Warren.

by EWT Spoons Fri 23 Nov 2018, 12:07 pm

Edinburgh Rugby wrote:Scotland internationalists Ben Toolis and Darcy Graham return to Edinburgh’s starting XV as Head Coach Richard Cockerill makes three changes to his team to face Dragons at Rodney Parade in the Guinness PRO14 this Sunday (25 November, kick-off 5.30pm) – live on Premier Sports and S4C.

The capped duo are named in the starting line-up alongside Italian international prop Pietro Ceccarelli, who makes his first start for the club after featuring from the bench against Zebre and Scarlets in recent weeks.

Ahead of the fixture – which sees Edinburgh return to Guinness PRO14 duty following a two-week international break - Head Coach Richard Cockerill, said: “We had a few days off after the win over Scarlets, but Dragons is a really big game for us.

“There’s a lot of noise that it’s a really important game for them, but it’s a really important game for us too. With Scarlets playing Ulster, they’ll knock each other off, so If we can get a positive result at Dragons then it puts us right in the mix for the playoffs.

“I expect us to perform well and I expect us to win on Sunday. We’ve got a good group of guys who showed against a vastly experienced Scarlets team that we can stand up and play. We need to keep up those levels of intensity and physicality this weekend."

In the back-three, Dougie Fife retains his place at fullback and starts alongside wingers Duhan van der Merwe and Graham, with the latter returning to domestic action after making his Scotland debut against Wales earlier this month.

An unchanged centre pairing sees Chris Dean and James Johnstone once again line-up in midfield, whilst Henry Pyrgos – who is named captain – and Simon Hickey continue at half-back.

In the front-row, hooker Ross ford packs down alongside props Pierre Schoeman – a try-scorer in the recent win over Scarlets – and Ceccarelli, with up-and-coming locks James Hodgson and Callum Hunter-Hill named in the second-row.

The inclusion of Scotland internationalist, Toolis – who is named at the unfamiliar position of blindside flanker – is the only alteration to an otherwise unchanged back-row as Ally Miller and Luke Hamilton keep their place in the starting XV.

Edinburgh team to face Dragons at Rodney Parade in the Guinness PRO14 on Sunday 25 November, kick-off 5.30pm – live on Premier Sports and S4C.

15. Dougie Fife (116)

14. Darcy Graham (10)

13. James Johnstone (27)

12. Chris Dean (73)

11. Duhan van der Merwe (25)

10. Simon Hickey (9)

9. Henry Pyrgos (9) CAPTAIN

1. Pierre Schoeman (6)

2. Ross Ford (187)

3. Pietro Ceccarelli (2)

4. James Hodgson (2)

5. Callum Hunter-Hill (4)

6. Ben Toolis (96)

7. Ally Miller (1)

8. Luke Hamilton (8)

Replacements: 16. David Cherry (4); 17. Rory Sutherland (68); 18. Murray McCallum (44); 19. Callum Atkinson (2); 20. Lewis Wynne (1); 21. Sean Kennedy (65); 22. Jaco van der Walt (22); 23. Juan Pablo Socino (6)

Unavailable due to international selection: Allan Dell; Stuart McInally; WP Nel; Jamie Ritchie; Hamish Watson; Blair Kinghorn; Simon Berghan; Grant Gilchrist; Bill Mata

Unavailable due to injury: Cameron Fenton; Fraser McKenzie; Lewis Carmichael; John Barclay; Magnus Bradbury; Senitiki Nayalo; Luke Crosbie; Mungo Mason; Matt Scott; Mark Bennett; Damien Hoyland

by PhilBB Fri 23 Nov 2018, 12:07 pm

Bloody hell. This has to be a 5-0 home win.

by **RDW** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 12:08 pm

Toolis at 6??

by EWT Spoons Fri 23 Nov 2018, 12:15 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Toolis at 6??

Yeah it's a strange one. I can't imagine he's played much (if any) at 6. Plus given he's only just back from the international setup, I assume he's not trained much there either.

by **RiscaGame** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 12:59 pm

PhilBB wrote:Bloody hell. This has to be a 5-0 home win.

There’s no chance of that.

Not convinced by our starting props. I still feel Evans is a scrummaging disaster waiting to happen too.

How Williams keeps his place at fullback, after what he did against Connacht is beyond me. At least Landman is included this week.

by munkian Fri 23 Nov 2018, 1:17 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
munkian wrote:I hope we get absolutely smashed off the park.

Why on earth would you say that?
Gwlad-tastic schadenfreude

Dragons season ticket holder for 11 years actually old boy, I just don't want a win over Embra 3rds to justify Bernie keeping his job.

by EWT Spoons Fri 23 Nov 2018, 1:35 pm

munkian wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
munkian wrote:I hope we get absolutely smashed off the park.

Why on earth would you say that?
Gwlad-tastic schadenfreude

Dragons season ticket holder for 11 years actually old boy, I just don't want a win over Embra 3rds to justify Bernie keeping his job.

If it helps, we'll happily take a 5 point BP win now, and just call the whole thing off. Here to help

by munkian Fri 23 Nov 2018, 1:42 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
munkian wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
munkian wrote:I hope we get absolutely smashed off the park.

Why on earth would you say that?
Gwlad-tastic schadenfreude

Dragons season ticket holder for 11 years actually old boy, I just don't want a win over Embra 3rds to justify Bernie keeping his job.

If it helps, we'll happily take a 5 point BP win now, and just call the whole thing off. Here to help

Top lad

by **RiscaGame** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 2:53 pm

munkian wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
munkian wrote:I hope we get absolutely smashed off the park.

Why on earth would you say that?
Gwlad-tastic schadenfreude

Dragons season ticket holder for 11 years actually old boy, I just don't want a win over Embra 3rds to justify Bernie keeping his job.

I got what you meant and to be honest, I would see a win as papering over the cracks. A lot of Dragons supporters (on FB) don’t need encouragement to treat one win, as a sign of progress.

by munkian Fri 23 Nov 2018, 2:59 pm

Its our first game without our previous defence coach, it really has to be better.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 23 Nov 2018, 3:10 pm

I'm sure it was tongue in cheek, but even so, there's a difference between wanting a change of management and wishing for a heavy defeat. I can't get my head around that.

by **RiscaGame** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 3:41 pm

I’m sure nobody wants a defeat really. I just wouldn’t want a win to forgive all previous sins Wink

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 23 Nov 2018, 3:42 pm

The comeback starts here. We'll make the playoffs, you watch!

by **RiscaGame** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 3:49 pm

I believe.

by **RDW** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 5:05 pm

Just noticed we play Munster away 5 days later - pretty crappy scheduling!

by **BigGee** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 5:30 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Just noticed we play Munster away 5 days later - pretty crappy scheduling!

You would imagine that Cockers will be pretty much writing that one off, especially if he has to rest all the Scotland players. Still it was never a game that anyone expected them to win and it won't really impact their season.

by **RDW** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 5:33 pm

It's not like he can rotate the squad either - we're down to the bare bones so the guys that play on Sunday will probably have to back up again on Friday.

I really hope they don't play Stander et al....

by **RiscaGame** Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:37 pm

Uncle Bernard has a stadium ban, so now I’m confident of a win Sunday. I know we’ve still been trained by him but he can’t be quite as hands on now, on Sunday.

by Stone Motif Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:40 pm

PhilBB wrote:Bloody hell. This has to be a 5-0 home win.

Alright Bernard, calm down.

by Stone Motif Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:44 pm

munkian wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
munkian wrote:I hope we get absolutely smashed off the park.

Why on earth would you say that?
Gwlad-tastic schadenfreude

Dragons season ticket holder for 11 years actually old boy, I just don't want a win over Embra 3rds to justify Bernie keeping his job.

Said in jest. Who am I to talk anyway having just laughed my t7ts off at the Ospreys and Blues results.

by Stone Motif Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:46 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Uncle Bernard has a stadium ban, so now I’m confident of a win Sunday. I know we’ve still been trained by him but he can’t be quite as hands on now, on Sunday.

Shame it's not two years. Though again the spreys and blues results tonight do put things in perspective a little.

by Guest Sun 25 Nov 2018, 8:34 am

Whats the matter with Nansen, do you reckon? He was hailed as a big signing. The enforcer we needed in the 2nd row. Yet once again we bench him and put Lewis Evans, a guy with 200 caps as a flanker, in at 2nd row. In fairness Evans did well on the stats front last time out at lock. Well, excellent flanker stats - tackles made, etc. Not sure how he did in the lineouts and scrummaging. But what gives with Nansen? Is he not up to it (in Bernard’s eyes)? Does he lack the fitness to start?

by **RiscaGame** Sun 25 Nov 2018, 8:41 am

I know Bernard sees him as the saviour. Before this premiership draft thing, he wasn’t readily made available to a premiership team (whereas others were). It won’t be long until he’s starting again, I just think he has got a little while to prove he is completely past his concussion.

by Stone Motif Sun 25 Nov 2018, 9:05 am

The Oracle wrote:Whats the matter with Nansen, do you reckon? He was hailed as a big signing. The enforcer we needed in the 2nd row. Yet once again we bench him and put Lewis Evans, a guy with 200 caps as a flanker, in at 2nd row. In fairness Evans did well on the stats front last time out at lock. Well, excellent flanker stats - tackles made, etc. Not sure how he did in the lineups and scrummaging. But what gives with Nansen? Is he not up to it (in Bernard’s eyes)? Does he lack the fitness to start?

Set piece has been OK with a flanker in the second row, weirdly.

A better coach than Bernard would struggle with who starts and who benches in selecting our team, given the drop off from the first xv is generally a chasm. That's his fault as well though, for spending money on luxury players like Jordan Williams instead of hoovering up all the second rows he could find, locking them in a weight room (pun intended) for the off season and only feeding them steak and roids.

by EWT Spoons Sun 25 Nov 2018, 1:53 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Just noticed we play Munster away 5 days later - pretty crappy scheduling!

Apparently Edinburgh asked for this game to be played earlier. Prem sports and the league were fine with that, but dragons said no. Apparently their reasoning was to give their fans time to get to the game. Didn't realise dragons fans were coming from that far away.

by **RDW** Sun 25 Nov 2018, 2:17 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Just noticed we play Munster away 5 days later - pretty crappy scheduling!

Apparently Edinburgh asked for this game to be played earlier. Prem sports and the league were fine with that, but dragons said no. Apparently their reasoning was to give their fans time to get to the game. Didn't realise dragons fans were coming from that far away.

That's pretty crappy if true.

by Stone Motif Sun 25 Nov 2018, 2:21 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Just noticed we play Munster away 5 days later - pretty crappy scheduling!

Apparently Edinburgh asked for this game to be played earlier. Prem sports and the league were fine with that, but dragons said no. Apparently their reasoning was to give their fans time to get to the game. Didn't realise dragons fans were coming from that far away.

That's pretty crappy if true.

Why? Game kicks off at the scheduled time and getting around our neck of the woods on public transport is a worse nightmare than watching our defence in action.

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