HSBC Sevens 2018/2019

First topic message reminder :

The men's tournament kicks off this weekend in Dubai. This one is key for Olympic qualification in Tokyo, as only the top four teams will be guaranteed automatic qualification. Four years ago, that was Fiji, South Africa, New Zealand and England (i.e. GB). Last year, Australia claimed fourth, with England a point behind in fifth. It will be a major surprise if the other three don't finish in the top 4, so the main fight is likely to be for that final place, with Australia, USA, Argentina, Kenya and Canada among the challengers to keep Team GB out.

There was talk after Rio of combining Wales, Scotland and England into Team GB for the overall Sevens series but that didn't really go anywhere.

England are without one of last season's best players, Ruaridh McConnochie, who signed a contract with Bath. Simon Amor has said the squad is slightly smaller this year but is optimistic about quality. He's got two school players who couldn't get academy contracts, which gives you some idea of how things work in the short code. It's crazy that we have no access to promising academy players.

We've lost Tony Roques from the coaching squad, so James Rodwell and Charlie Hayter have stepped into player-coach roles, with responsibility for coaching Women Sevens too, now that the England Mens and Womens programmes have been combined (the Womens Sevens also has a round in Dubai. It has kicked off already, with England going unbeaten on the first day, managing a surprise win over Australia, and a last-gasp victory over USA)

Simon Amor has said this is the most competitive year for Sevens, with qualification at stake. In the season just before the Olympics, teams tend to switch things around, to try different tactics, or look to keep players fresh.

England's pool in Dubai includes Australia, Canada and Japan, so that's a good chance to measure ourselves, and try to get an early advantage in the qualification race. Wales are in a pool with New Zealand, Spain and USA, while Scotland match up against Fiji, France and Kenya.

Thanks for putting these reports together Rugby Fan.

Great semi final between USA and NZ.
Great win for USA with the last play, game tied at 19-19. Isles with the deciding try.

USA without Baker and Barrett

After the disappointment of missing out on a potentially smooth route to the final, England did as well as they could today. A convincing win over Australia, and a late winner against Fiji gives us 5th place in Vegas.

The Fiji match was a thriller. Ryan Olowofela (Jordan's twin brother) came off the bench and scored, which made it a one point game, with 20 seconds left. He then made the key break to set up our winner.

That gives us a good couple of scalps, which is handy, because we have a patchy record against some of the traditionally strong sides recently. Importantly, we also get more ponts this round than South Africa and Australia, who are probably our main rivals for an Olympic qualifying spot. As it stands now, halfway through the season, Fiji, NZ and USA look good for the other three places.

USA held Samoa scoreless in the Vegas final, winning 27-0. That's their first win this season, after four second-place finishes, and takes them clear of New Zealand at the top.

Samoa couldn't live with USA but it is significant they made the final. Samoa won't get a top four spot but will be competitive in the Oceania qualification play-off, and final reperchage.

If South Africa miss out of a top four spot, then they will almost certainly win the Africa play-off, at the expense of Kenya, who aren't the force they were. However, If England and Australia miss out, then their qualification routes will be much harder.

After 5 rounds, the top 4 sides are currently USA, NZ, Fiji and England. They all have British coaches, which is not something you'll hear noted very much in the south. If I have got my sums right, England only have a point advantage over South Africa, so that's by no means a safe position to be in.

Thanks for all the info RF.

Who are the coaches of those 4 sides? Interesting that they're all British, it's not something you see much in 15's.

USA - Mike Friday (English - former captain, then coach of England Sevens. Also, Kenya)
NZ - Clark Laidlaw (Scottish - Former Scotland 7s, Roy Laidlaw's son & cousin to Greig)
Fiji - Gareth Baber (Welsh - former Wales U20 coach. Also Cardiff Blues & HK Sevens)
England - Simon Amor (English - former England sevens & IRB 7s Player of the Year)

Canada is coached by Englishman Damian McGrath. He's a former league player, who was an assistant coach with England, before taking the head coach role with Samoa. He took the Canada job in October 2016, and they won their first series title under him.

Another non-national among the top teams is Sir Gordon Tietjens, the former NZ sevens head coach, who took over from McGrath with Samoa.

Former Welsh sevens coach Paul John was appointed coach of the Hong Kong sevens side, after Gareth Baber left for Fiji. John was coach when Wales won the sevens World Cup in 2009. Hong Kong are not a core side on the HSBC circuit but, as Japan qualify automatically for the Tokyo Olympics, they could win the Asian qualifying round.

Until last year, New Zealander Damian Karauna coached Japan, but his contract wasn't renewed, and the JRU appointed Kensuke Iwabuchi, who used to captain the sevens side (and once signed a pro contract with with Saracens).

The pools are out for Vancouver. They are an indication of how important the draw is to your prospects. Scotland might beat Argentina or England (and would have been a good bet to do so in previous seasons) but they aren't functioning right now, so it would take a one-off effort to do so. Always possible in sevens, of course.

Still, if Argentina and England do qualify for the quarter finals, they face one of the top two teams in Pool A, which will almost cetainly be SA and USA. You probably want to avoid USA right now but South Africa aren't much weaker so that's a tough quarter final either way.

Meanwhile, New Zealand and Australia will fancy their chances at qualifying from Pool C, and their route will put them against one of Fiji, Samoa, Kenya, or Canada. Without doubt, the one to avoid there is Fiji. Get one of the other three, and you'd fancy your chances at making the semi-final (albeit Samoa did beat Australia in Vegas).

Probably England's best outcome would be to top the pool, face SA and beat them, while Australia get knocked out in a quarter final by Fiji. That would mean, whatever happened afterwards, we would earn more points than both Australia and SA, who are our direct rivals for that fourth Olympic qialifying spot.

Invariably, though, when I project forward like that, England go and get a fistful of yellow cards, and never make it out of the pool.

Pool A
USA
SA
Chile
Wales

Pool B
Samoa
Fiji
Kenya
Canada

Pool C
NZ
Australia
Spain
France

Pool D
Argentina
England
Scotland
Japan

Well, that would be a turn for the worse.

The England Sevens team is facing the axe as part of 'brutal' cost- cutting measures being considered by the Rugby Football Union.

The move comes as Twickenham sources claim the governing body must make deeper than expected savings of up to £10million in the next financial year because of its troubled financial position...

...It is understood the squad could be disbanded as early as July, with the RFU hoping to switch permanently to a Team GB model in order to save around £2m a year. The RFU believes savings could be made as the Scottish and Welsh Unions would share in the costs, and it would also attract Olympic funding from UK Sport.

Twickenham insiders hope that incoming chief executive Bill Sweeney, who is joining the governing body from the British Olympic Association this year, will have the clout to be able to deliver on this model, otherwise the entire sevens programme, including the women’s side, could be wound up.

The men’s sevens programme, which includes around 20 players on full-time contracts ranging from around £25,000 up to £90,000 per year, is also at particular risk because it is one of the few areas of professional investment where the RFU can make significant cuts.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-sevens/2019/03/06/england-sevens-facing-axe-rfu-scramble-cut-costs/

Rugby Fan wrote:Well, that would be a turn for the worse.

There is an argument for making Team GB the centre of our sevens programmes but that's a debate you want to have properly, and not knee-jerking into it. All teams will still need to compete separately at the Commonwealth Games, where Rugby Sevens has no danger of being dropped from the schedule. The Olympics reviews sports all the time, and team sports are especially vulnerable because of the number of athletes involved. I haven't heard that Sevens is under threat but, as a new sport, it will be monitored closely.

The news breaking now is bad timing because the England team is in the middle of a hard-fought Olympic qualification season. You don't want players taking the field worried about their financial future in the game. The other sadness is that the sevens programmes have been great nurseries for coaching talent. As mentioned above, the top four teams in the HSBC Sevens series right now, are coached by two Englishmen, a Scot, and a Welshman. We carry a lot of weight in this code, and reducing opportunities by 66% will threaten our overall involvement.

There’s no real correlation between 7s and the union side these days, so maybe a good thing in terms on financing for the RFU. It’s not like any English players come through 7s and benefit the proper international squad like in the past. Save money and join it up for GB.

Cyril wrote:There’s no real correlation between 7s and the union side these days, so maybe a good thing in terms on financing for the RFU. It’s not like any English players come through 7s and benefit the proper international squad like in the past. Save money and join it up for GB.

That assumes that the other UK countries would want to do that.

Scotland certainly do use their sevens program as a development pathway, with several internationals, Horne, Graham and Bennett amaonst others, all having spent some time in the program.

I can almost guarantee zero interest from Scottish fans if they were to play under the GB banner outside of the Olympics and I can't see the SRU touching that with a bargepole.

Yep, sorry. I was only looking at it from the RFU point of view. It’s a real anomaly as a sport. Similarly with the news that there will be GB League side touring again which will be basically England.

Cyril wrote:There’s no real correlation between 7s and the union side these days

There isn't but there should be. Almost every other team uses 7s as a way to nurture talent for the larger code , and England used to do that too.

I disagree. Yes, 7s was an avenue for England players years ago. The game has moved on. Most top sides (NZ etc) sees 7s as a side show ( and quite rightly). If the RFU needs to cut costs to help the international side then good, cut the 7s.

Cyril wrote:..Most top sides (NZ etc) sees 7s as a side show...

Most sides see sevens as subordinate to fifteens but that doesn't mean they haven't found a way to use sevens as a development tool. Look at the current Argentinian squad. A lot of those players got a start in sevens, including Jerónimo de la Fuente, Bautista Ezcurra, Matías Moroni, Javier Ortega Desio and Pablo Matera.

Here are some players who have turned out for the New Zealand sevens side in recent years: Beauden Barrett, Adam Thomson, Ben Smith, Jerome Kaino, Charles Piutau, Rieko Ioane & Liam Messam.

England have had nothing remotely like that kind of participation. The last top English Test player with a half-decent sevens career was Danny Care in 2005/6. Ruaridh McConnochie and Marcus Watson can play well enough in the longer code, but no-one is talking about international careers for them.

Matt Tait did well in the 7's too didn't he?

Ollie Lindsey-Hague as well I think, although I think he is now only a 7's player.

yappysnap wrote:Matt Tait did well in the 7's too didn't he?

Mat Tait is almost a perfect example of how the 7s programme should work. Brian Ashton saw he was a talent, and got him involved with Sevens, when the junior game was less well-developed. After Robinson selected him, then dropped him, he used the Sevens programme as a way to get his mojo back, which led to a place in the 2007 World Cup squad. He never went back, but his England Test career also  stopped in 2010. If he had stayed in the shorter code, his body might have lasted longer.

Ollie Lindsay-Hague would have been a great 7s player, up there with Tom Mitchell and Dan Bibby, but started his career a bit too late. He's still a fine, creative sevens player but should have been identified earlier, and encouraged to play sevens when he was young, as Tait was.

Here are some Scottish players who have featured in both Sevens and full tests:

Dougie Fife, Stuart Hogg, Blair Kinghorn, Richie Vernon, Mark Bennett, Sean Lamont, Lee Jones, Nick Grigg, Magnus Bradbury & Darcy Graham

Can't really remember the Welsh players as much but the squad at the last Commonwealth Games included Justin Tipuric and Hallam Amos, while James Davies was a Team GB medallist.

Should note that Ben Ryan welcomes the idea of a Team GB set-up. Here are three tweets he sent earlier.

I think Team GB is a good idea from a performance angle and at the top end of international rugby, it’s all about performance. The piece around RFU cost cutting I hadn’t heard of before for a reason to cut the programme.

I know some supporters won’t be fans - it’s my opinion and it all depends what the home nations want. If it’s development then keep it as it is. If they want genuine and consistent chance of Olympic golds and a World Series title then it needs to be a GB team.

A combined GB team still develops talent from all the home nations & they get a better chance to be successful whilst reducing everyone’s budgets.

A combined GB team will effectively be England with a GB moniker attached to it and funding from other sources than the RFU. It is not going to appeal to anyone other than England.

BigGee wrote:A combined GB team will effectively be England with a GB moniker attached to it and funding from other sources than the RFU. It is not going to appeal to anyone other than England.

Just as in football, Scotland and Wales are concerned that folding into Team GB will undermine their claims to stand alone as independent unions in other areas. I don't think it's impossible they will consider some kind of more permanent Team GB arrangement but there's a lot of work to be done. Sevens isn't just a way to get experience for players, it's also a framework for coaching, strength & conditioning etc. If I was Wales or Scotland, I'd want some guarantees about how many of my people were going to be involved. As soon as you start having that kind of conversation, though, the project has weak foundations. This is in the Telegraph.

The RFU believes the savings would be made as the Scottish and Welsh unions would have to help with the costs, while it would then also attract Olympic funding from UK Sport.

The Scottish Rugby Union, however, has given no indication that it is prepared to switch its own Sevens programme permanently to a Great Britain model outside of Olympic years.

“The Scotland Sevens programmes are an integral part of our player development pathway, providing competitive environments to support the objective of developing players for the 15-a-side game,” said a spokesman.

“We are in regular dialogue with the RFU and WRU, as was the case ahead of Rio 2016, around the qualification process and forward planning for the 2020 Olympic Games in Tokyo, where the aim again is to have Team GB Sevens sides competing.”

I am generally for anything that brings British sport closer together, including a British national team in football but without some major concessions from the RFU I can't see this ever happening. As we only have two pro teams, the sevens programme is tremendously important and the SRU won't get rid of it just because the RFU have overspent again.

First match in Vancouver was England vs Scotland, which had an extra edge after news that the RFU might de-fund the England sevens programme. England won 21-7

England beat Argentina to top the pool, which is something we couldn't manage last week.

Meanwhile Canada beat Fiji, Spain beat NZ, and France beat Australia, which jumbles things up a bit. If NZ can beat Australia, then the Australia might miss out on the quarter final, which would be handy for our Olympic chances. If NZ lose, then they will miss out. France beat Spain, so are already qualified, and may have enough points to top the group.

If Canada can beat Kenya, and Samoa beat Fiji, then Fiji might miss out on the quarters too. It would be good for the Vancouver crowd to see Canada go through instead.

Chile gave USA a scare but eventually lost. England will play the loser of USA v South Africa. Both are dauntig prospects but, since we are trying to fight off South Africa for fourth place, then that's probably the match we'd rather have.

Fiji beat Samoa, so they both progress at the expense of Canada. New Zealand handily beat Australia, which means they didn't qualify, and England will outscore them in this round. South Africa beat USA, which was a bit of a surprise, and leaves England needing to beat USA in the quarter final. We haven't had a great record against them this season, so this weekend is as good a time as any, to put it right.

This was an outrageous piece of skill.

We ran USA close, but went down 19-21. The best we can hope for now is a 5th place finish. We beat Samoa but now have to down New Zealand to get those points.

Meanwhile, South Africa have a chance to leapfrog us. because they made it into the semis by beating Argentina. They are playing Fiji now for a place in the final. Even if they lose their remaining matches, the Blitzbokke will secure 15 ponts, while the best England can manage is 13, so we'll be swapping places one way or another.

Well, South Africa beat Fiji quite comfortably, And France did what we couldn't do, and smashed USA in their semi.

That's two bits of bad news for England. Not only will South Africa go above us, but we are also reminded that the European Olympic play-off will be highly competitive. France have beaten current top team USA, while Spain dispatched New Zealand. Both sides will have an eye on that Olympic qualification berth, as will Ireland.

This has been a bizarre season when you consider it’s a bit of a surprise that SA made the final and a shock that the USA didn’t.

South Africa claim the Cup, with France in second place. This is the first round to break the NZ/USA monopoly, which is good to keep things fresh. Unless England can come to the party in subsequent rounds, then we'll miss out on that all important fourth spot.

As it is, I've seen suggestions that Australia may try to draft in some Test talent to improve their chances. They are now 24 points behind South Africa, so I think they are, realistically, out of contention with four rounds to go.

England are also under the gun. Our gap is 9 points, which is doable, but we will probably need top four finishes at the same time the Blitzbokke miss out on points, so the odds are against us.

If Oz and England miss out on Olympics this time around will they miss out on funding? Most things are money orientated, so if the Unions miss out on that Olympics money perhaps they'll decide to invest in the game more for the subsequent Olympics.

yappysnap wrote:If Oz and England miss out on Olympics this time around will they miss out on funding? Most things are money orientated, so if the Unions miss out on that Olympics money perhaps they'll decide to invest in the game more for the subsequent Olympics.

Not sure. I think one of the reasons the RFU is looking at folding the England Sevens into a Team GB programme, is that it can get lottery funding in a way it doesn't now. However, lottery funding rewards success, so it may be moot if we don't qualify.

If Australia and England miss out on automatic qualification, then they will have to go through the respective regional qualifiers. As the top ranked teams in both, they would be favourites but it is no wash. Australia will face Samoa, who have started to regain the form which saw them regularly challenge for titles a decade ago. In a one-off meeting, Samoa could prevail. Similarly, England would usually have the measure of France and Spain but both are capable of beating us. Add to that, the wild card of Ireland, who showed up well during their invitation events last season, and England would have a hard route.

There is a remaining reperchage but it wouldn't be much weaker, since one of Australia and Samoa would be in competition, along with the other losing European teams.

...It is also understood the plan by Nigel Melville, the RFU’s interim chief executive, to establish a permanent Team GB sevens side to replace the England Sevens as part of a bid to save up to £2 million is in jeopardy as it is unlikely to gain the support of the Scottish and Welsh unions.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2019/03/29/rfu-hit-multimillion-pound-bill-replace-stand-roofs-twickenham/

Pool C in Hong Kong this weekend is a mega group of death: Fiji, NZ, Australia & Kenya.

England face USA, Wales and Spain in Pool D. The Spanish can be tricky customers but we'd be disappointed not to make it to a Cup quarter Final.

Pool D plays off against the top two from Pool A, which includes SA, Samoa, Scotland and Japan. If England finish second, the we'll likely go against South Africa who we our main rivals for an Olympic qualifying spot. If we finish top, and get someone else, then that line-up is probably our best chance in a long time at a semi-final spot.

Still, a lot can go wrong.

The other key event at Hong Kong this weekend is the play-off for a place on the World Series. Japan won last year, and, this year, Ireland are major contenders.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/ireland-set-for-world-rugby-sevens-qualifier-in-hong-kong-1.3845709

Ireland beat Jamaica 26-0 in their opening match today. Uruguay are up later, with Russia tomorrow.

Scotland Women beat Japan, and will now face Brazil in the final qualifier for a spot on the Womens Sevens Series next season.

A narrow escape for Ireland against Uruguay, with the match finishing in a 26-26 draw. It was on the cards to be a comfortable Irish win, with Conroy looking as dangerous as ever, and a secodn half score of 26-7 at one point. However, Ireland didn't protect their own ball, and Uruguay started winning some easy counter-rucks.

Uruguay got to 26-21 with seconds left on the clock. They kicked to Ireland, so all the Irish had to do was take it safely, and clear. Instead, Uruguay gathered the ball and raced off for a try to tie the score It should have been an easy conversion, only a couple of yards off centre, but the kicker scuffed it horribly. He pulled his shirt over his head in embarrassment.

Sadly for Scotland, they fell short against Brazil, losing 28-19. Brazil will be on the HSBC Women's series next season.

England beat Wales 36-19. Unless there are odd results elsewhere in the pool, a win against Spain should see us in the Hong Kong quarter finals (USA are comfortably beating Spain right now).

New Zealand spanked Australia 40-19. Australia might yet beat Fiji, but odds favour them missing out on a Cup quarter final, which would push them further awat from that 4th Olympic qualifying.

I suspect it's a shoot-out between England and South Africa as we run into the end of the season, with the Blitzbokke in pole position. The main subplot in Hong Kong for England is wther we can make up ground, or fall further behind.

If you haven't seen Seb Chabal at the HK Sevens yet, then click this tweet.

https://twitter.com/WorldRugby7s/status/1114101699621326848

Ireland beat Russia 33-7, which is a big result. Russia had easily beaten Uruguay, who went on to cause problems for Ireland, so this looked like a potential banana skin. Ireland will now go through to the quarter finals.

As it turns out, Ireland will face Russia in the quarter finals (there were twelve teams in three pools, so only the worst 4 have been eliminated so far). I'd expect the Russians to be a stiffer challenge in the knock-out rounds. ireland have what looks like the harder side of teh draw, with Germany or Uruguay as potential semi-final opponents.

England beat Spain 54-5, which is a record margin for us against them.

Just realized that usual captain Tom Mitchell is 13th man this weekend. He picked up a hamstring strain, and Amor didn't think it was worth risking him from the start. Phil Burgess has taken over the captaincy.

And WOAH! Wales just beat USA 19-21. Wales have been absolute pants this season but showed what they can do when they are in the groove. They gave England an early scare yesterday, and USA seemed to take them too lightly.

That's not great for England, of course. If we lose to USA, and Wales beat Spain, then there'll be a 3-way tie in our group. If it comes down to points difference, then England will need to keep the USA match tight, and hope that Wales can't rack up a big win over Spain. The Wales vs Spain game comes up first, so England and USA will both know what they need to do.

Wales reverted to type against Spain. Needing to win big, they let in three tries before scoring one themselves, finally going down to a 10-26 defeat.

Think I heard a commentator mention that's the seventh time in a row Spain have beaten Wales.

It means England have already qualified, and USA would have to lose by 59 points or more not to do so themselves.

England beat USA in a good match. We raced out to a 21-0 lead, only to have USA get back to 21-17. We have had a habit of losing early leads this season but didn't panic, and had the game won when USA got a yellow card.

This means we play Samoa in the quarter final, while USA face South Africa. A week ago, that looked like the best outcome but USA looked off the boil today. If they play the same way tomorrow, then they won't be much opposition for a confident looking Blitzbokke. Since we need to outscore South Africa, we might have been better off facing them, and trying to stop their progress ourselves.

Heartbreak for Uruguay. They led Germany, one of the favourites, by 7-5, and had a man advantage but couldn't hold their discipline. Germany scored with the last play, to win 7-12.

Ireland up next against Russia

Ireland swept Russia away 47-0. They face German tomorrow, while CHile play HK in the other half of the draw.

A little video from here from the beeb

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/47840196

Dammit I now see Rugby Fan got there first - still worth a view

Wales beat no 1 team in the world