Edinburgh vs Glasgow The 1872 Cup - Edinburgh's annual slaughtering of the new effeminate ones

First topic message reminder :

All in good jest folks!

It’s that time again. When Edinburgh rugby, a tough gnarly rugby team, face off against the hair gel wearing, skin moisturising, sun bed using Glasgow "Warriors".

This annual handing out of league points to Edinburgh is much welcomed as Glasgow, a team who really are living off past glory, look to try and get their hands on some silverware in this day and age.

The history speaks for itself really with the current holders Edinburgh continually handing out a spanking to the team of Avon consumers (if only the fans would follow the lead eh)

Edinburgh 20–8 Glasgow
Edinburgh 23–11 Glasgow
Glasgow 11–14 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 12–25 Glasgow
Glasgow 18–29 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 18–17 Glasgow
Glasgow 17–0 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 24–19 Glasgow

Now, let’s get ready to hear from the warrior nation about how they believe Edinburgh are the effeminates and how they think Glasgow will prevail this year!

And a superb piece of skill from P Horne for the try.

Edinburgh pack definitely dominated TJ, at least before all the subs came on  - we got several scrum penalties, had some good rolling mauls and defended their mauls well. We also had the upper hand at the breakdown which was a big reason why Glasgow struggled in attack.

Ah well, another Chrimbo ruined

jimbopip wrote:


The Annual Slaughter Of The Effeminates.... Cockers is, like all coaches, creating a team in his own image. A bunch of ugly, nasty, bassturds who have no idea whatsoever when the ball is in their hands but love the set piece and are always up for a battle against the big guys. hence over-performing in cups and getting found out in the league. Yes Luvvies that stings, but only because it's true.


The Once And Future Champions on the other hand.... have evolved from last season's "pick your best fifteen and flog them till they drop" into a squad who all know what is expected of them and are all capable of carrying out the expansive game plan. It's getting to the point where I don't care who is selected: they'll play what is in front of them and win more often than not. Much more often.

The MFL's previously successful tactic of playing the match in a mausoleum and keeping the ball hidden up Ross Ford's jumper for 70 minutes thus sending the Warriors' backs to sleep won't work this time. Whichever pack DR selects will have a bit of nastiness to it and will be looking to pocket five points while practising stuffing a turkey. In the backs it will be a no-contest. Actually, at this point I had intended engaging in some Yuletide banter but; Wee George- Young Hastings- any two of Dunbar-Furra Linee- Stafford Terrier- Jones -Grigg then two from DTH- Mad Mad Mata - Seymour- Hogg- Jackson. All playing fearless, express yourself rugby! You aren't in the same ball park.

I can't mock you anymore I feel too sorry for you.


Can't wait.

My big worry is that once I've finished eating all those words will I have room for my Christmas dinner?

One could carp on about turnover tries, possession, creativity etc but... your forwards fronted up and won the match

There had better be a backlash on Saturday.

As an aside; in the 1980's I followed the Buffalo Bills and was particularly taken by their quarterback Jim Kelly. When he was on song they were unstoppable. However, opposition coaches realised that if he was sacked early in the game his timing and composure went awry. Consequently the outcome of Bills' matches was often decided after the first three plays. I do get the sense that this Warriors side are well nigh unplayable when the hit their stride. Not so much when the opposition don't allow them to settle and get into their rhythm early on. The Luvvies kept the ball for the first 25 minutes, more or less, and it was pretty much game over after that. Rugby is far more complex than NFL, but Jonny Gray has not grown onto the Willie John McBride/Martin Johnson type of leader we wanted. BBB for all his gladiatorial spoiling nastiness doesn't lead the charge over the barricades (he's too busy strangling the sentries). At 24 minutes Gibbins caught a pass out wide and I realised I hadn't noticed him on the pitch until then. It is fine and well (actually pretty brilliant most times) to say that if we keep playing to our strengths we will win in the end: but sometimes you need players who take the opposition by the scruff of the neck and give them a good shake.  


Again, Luvvies

Mind you you should be doing that every week not just high days and holidays.

I've got to say, as much as I've enjoyed major humble pie being eaten - and I've enjoyed it a great deal - my overwhelming emotion is relief that we've picked up 4 points. Not qualifying for Europe next season will be a bit of a disaster, especially with the new stadium launch, and we've got a lot of chasing to do as it is.

Looking at the bigger picture however I'm not getting too carried away - the reality is Edinburgh probably played around 70% of their current best whereas Glasgow would be lucky to hit 20-30%. A lot of credit for this goes to Edinburgh's commited and well organised defence but Glasgow blew opportunities that on other days would have stuck and given them a big lead. We all know Edinburgh's first team is highly competitive but until we improve our attack we're not going to make the step to the next kevel.

From a Glasgow point of view it is a wake up call that their pack isn't yet quite as hard as they think they are. The 3 times Glasgow have come up against genuine international class packs this season - Sarries, Munster away, Edinburgh away they've lost (noting they should have beaten Munster). Like Scotland, teams know that if you're on top in the pack and put them under pressure with defence they're going to struggle.

Genuine question - is there a psychological issues with Glasgow coming to play Edinburgh? 1 win in 7 at Murrayfield is an awful return and in a lot of those losses they played really badly, despite coming into the game on really good form. Why do Glasgow fail to turn up time and time again? That was pretty much their first choice available team.

Onwards to next week - Glasgow should be a lot better and I'm sure more passes will stick. They will rightly be favourites for the game but I'm sure Edinburgh will make it tough!

Final word on Dean and JJ - they're were excellent in defence and made good ground in attack. I'd take them in my team over Horne and Grigg 100% just now.

I was at Murrayfield last night. Complete slaughter. Poor Stuart Hogg, having to resort to diving and play acting to get noticed.....

Merry Christmas to you all when it comes!

Agreed on Dean by the way. He is a 12 and not a 13, but I got him wrong when I first saw him and called him a nothing player. He's a terrific defender and picks clever lines. He'll never be a Tim Horan or Jannick Jauzion, but he's become a really handy player and seems to stay fit more than your average Edinburgh centre.

Luke Hamilton is another progressing well. Having back-up like him and Luke Crosbie is starting to give us proper depth.

Maybe my thoughts on Dean being so knickers when he first rolled up for us relate to him playing at 13???

Edinburgh are starting to form a decent spine now. Being able to knock the swagger out of the current leaders of the other conference when we’re missing Scott Bennett and Barclay just shows we’re getting there.

Glasgow playing at home and Edinburgh playing away is a completely different ballgame. I’m not saying we can’t win the return leg, but it’s not going to be easy.

As the Weedge are playing at home, would one of the warrior followers care to do a new thread for the return leg, or would you like to just continue using this one?

I new thread could be titled "Adam Hastings - This time it's personal". The thread could focus on how Glasgow are trying to salvage something from the festive period after boasting about how they are looking for 10 points from the two games but so far have diddly squat.

Perhaps some man to man match ups

Durhan vs DTH perhaps?
Big Bad Bill vs Baby Fagerson
Toolis vs Harley (did Harley ever get out of Toolis's pocket after the game?)

Maybe you want to focus on how the game, even at Scotstoun will be a difficult one for Glasgow with Edinburgh winning 7 of 9 (yes, now you know why Edinburgh get up for this game when you see the prize) - That one's for you Ian

Edinburgh 20–8 Glasgow
Edinburgh 23–11 Glasgow
Glasgow 11–14 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 12–25 Glasgow
Glasgow 18–29 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 18–17 Glasgow
Glasgow 17–0 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 24–19 Glasgow
Edinburgh 23 - 7 Glasgow

Either way, hope everyone has a merry crimbo

Well xmas is done and dusted, players have had a few days off and will be back in training today.

Let's hope the Glasgow boys have had a few days to reflect on their pre xmas offerring, which was very seasonal in its generosity towards the luvies.

Time for normal service at home to be resumed!

Yep, no excuses this time. Glasgow are a better team than Edinburgh at the moment and they need to show it.

Merry Christmas everyone - hope you had a happy holidays.

None of the weegies were able to answer my earlier question - why do Glasgow choke so often at Murrayfield when they generally into these games flying and on great form?

Why do they not only lose but generally play really badly too? Is it a psychological thing?

Again this is a genuine question.

It is an odd one, a bit of a Scottish trait as well really, not playing well and losing games that we really aught to be winning.

Glasgow have certainly developed this season, both as a first team in the big games and as a squad, but we are clearly not the finnished article yet. Underdog status suits both Scottish teams and neither like being favourites. Edinburgh have choked on a few games that they should have won as well this year.

In derby games generally, normal form often goes out of the window and it appears to have done so again.

The team that needs to win often beats the team that wants to win. It is an old adage but often true. If they had lost that game, then Edinburgh league season may well have been over.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Merry Christmas everyone - hope you had a happy holidays.

None of the weegies were able to answer my earlier question - why do Glasgow choke so often at Murrayfield when they generally into these games flying and on great form?

Why do they not only lose but generally play really badly too? Is it a psychological thing?

Again this is a genuine question.

it seems that most of the Glasgow fans are emulating thier team and are currently going missing!

I can't see any of them creating a new match thread any time soon. In fact, I think it might be quiet on here until Glasgow win again. If Edinburgh manage to beat them again on Sat (which is by no means given, but is at least possible) then I think many fans with do a Schitz and emo-quit the whole forum which would be a shame.

But if Glasgow do win at the weekend, I'm sure many of them (including ye olde GC) will come crawling back out the woodwork.

Time for a little stab at guessing the team. You would imagine that DR will be going all out to win this one and then give a few key players a rest for the trip to Italy the following week. Can't rest to many though, as Benetton are no push over at home these days. Some selections may take care of themselves though by the poor performances last weekend.

I think we might see something like this:

Kebble
Stewart
Rae - scrum definitely looked better when he came on
Gray
Swinson
Wilson - you notice it when he does not play
Gibbins
Fagerson
Horne
Hastings
Niko - DTH hobbled off and looked in a bad way
McDowell - we need a bit of go forward this week
Jones H
Seymour
Hogg

Allen - back from suspension
Bryce
Nuke
Harley
Fusaro
Price
Horne P
Nairn

I expect Hogg, Hastings, Fagerson, Gray, Horne G, Seymour, Jones H and maybe a few others will all sit out the following week.

Not sure we need a new thread tattie - just keep this as a double header.

I'd post a suggested Edinburgh team but we all know exactly what it will be! 

Only debate is whether Berghan will come back - he may give Nel a rest  Nel is coming close to his previous top form and is going to have a busy few months ahead. Berghan hasn't shown the same form as last season so this would be a good opportunity to test him.

I like your stab at the XV Gee.

However, I think both coaches will be looking two and three matches beyond this one. Both teams can make the QF's on the Euro thingy. In fact both could actually win their group, although the Luvvies may have the better chance of doing this. So I would suggest that Cockers and DR may want to put out pretty much the same 23 for both rounds 5&6 in Europe.

To me, this would mean this week and next will be about resting players and giving people a chance to show they are fit enough to be in the reckoning. I think that the Luvvies might be struggling in terms of players requiring mandatory rests. Certainly more so than the Warriors)

So

1. Kebble (next week off, cert for the euros)/Allen
2. Stewart (no real alternative)/Bryce
3. Rae/ Du Plessis
4. Cummings (Jonny needs a rest)/Harley
5, Swinson
6. Mrs Gibbins
8. Matt Smith
7. Fozzie ( Fagerson to cover the back row. The eagle eyed among you will have noticed it's a three sevens back row: no I'm not Scott Johnson but how else do we nullify Hamish Watson? Mind you, we might see Tamilau as sub.)

9. Aldi Price/Wee George
10. Hastings (no scapegoating here, thank you) /Brandon Thompson, can cover 10/12 has a good kicking game.
11. Niko
12.
13.
14. Nairn
15. Hogg

Centres will be a big call. Nick Grigg has spent Chrimbo visiting his family in the antipodes so is unavailable. Peter Horne is on fine form but will , probably be rested until Cardiff and Sarries.
So....Dunbar-McDowall-H Jones two starting and one benching. personally I'd be tempted to start with McDowall-Jones as Dunbar can play 12 & 13 when he comes on.

I think the mixture of home advantage, hurt pride, a changed line up for the Luvvies and people playing to be in the euro games should hand the initiative to Glasgow.

Has Kev Bryce reverted back to hooker permanently or is it a case of needs must?

It always seemed an odd shout him going to tighthead at his stature.

Edinburgh will surely go all out for this one and then rest en masse for the Southern Kings game the following week. They really should be winning that at home even with a lot of rested players.

The non international players from both teams will be able to be flogged a bit more than usual for the next few weeks as they will get a natural break during the 6n in any case.

The only changes Cockers will make will be injury related and even Glasgow may not make as many as we might think, especially after such a poor showing last week.

Squads play a big part in the league.

Cockers has a decision to make. Does he throw all the big names at Glasgow to try beat them (again) or does he go “ach, we took points off you last week, you lot can have a chance this week” and put out a perceived weaker team.

It comes down to if he thinks A: if the first XV or the second XV can get points off Glasgow and B: if he thinks he needs to keep players to get points off the Kings

Personally I’d chuck the kitchen sink at the weedge and then put the nippers out against the kings. If we can’t beat the kings at home with a squad then we’re in trouble anyway. They don’t travel well.

So yeah. 4 more points (at least) from sat I say!

Dave Rennie has made six changes to his starting XV as Glasgow Warriors prepare to face Edinburgh for the second time in seven days.

The capital side won the opening fixture 23-7 at BT Murrayfield and tomorrow’s sold out game at Scotstoun is the second of three derby games this season with the teams facing off again in Glasgow in April.

Alex Dunbar is involved for the first time since starting against Saracens in the Heineken Champions Cup back in October.

He starts in midfield alongside Pete Horne who made his 150th appearance for the club in Edinburgh last weekend.

Ali Price starts alongside Adam Hastings and Niko Matawalu also comes into the starting XV, with Tommy Seymour and Stuart Hogg completing the back-line.

Co-captain Ryan Wilson returns and fellow skipper Callum Gibbins joins him in the back-row alongside Matt Fagerson.

Tim Swinson is brought in to join Jonny Gray in the second-row while D’Arcy Rae starts at tight-head. Oli Kebble and Grant Stewart are the other front row forwards

On the bench, Sam Johnson has recovered from a knee injury sustained against Munster in October to be involved in the matchday 23.

Glasgow Warriors Head Coach Dave Rennie said: “Defensively we played well last weekend but we didn’t ask enough questions of Edinburgh in attack. We’re going to have to be better in that department tomorrow.

“We’re in a position where we can replace quality with quality. Five of the six players we’re bringing in to the starting line-up are internationals, all six have played over 50 games for the club and four are centurions. We’ve named a very strong side.

“It’s also a positive to welcome Sam (Johnson) back to the mix. He’s battled a bit this season so we’re looking forward to seeing him get back out there and do what he does best.


Glasgow Warriors team to play Edinburgh in the Guinness PRO14, 1872 Cup (second leg) at Scotstoun Stadium, Saturday 29 December, kick-off 3pm - live on Premier Sports 1. You can follow the game on Twitter @GlasgowWarriors. Glasgow Warriors appearances in brackets:


1. Oli Kebble (22)
2. Grant Stewart (13)
3. D’Arcy Rae (53)
4. Tim Swinson (117)
5. Jonny Gray (96)
6. Ryan Wilson (CC) (147)
7. Callum Gibbins (CC) (28)
8. Matt Fagerson (37)

9. Ali Price (67)
10. Adam Hastings (20)
11. Niko Matawalu (104)
12. Pete Horne (150)
13. Alex Dunbar (117)
14. Tommy Seymour (124)
15. Stuart Hogg (112)

Replacements

16. Kevin Bryce (17)
17. Jamie Bhatti (35)
18. Siua Halanukonuka (21)
19. Rob Harley (197)
20. Chris Fusaro (154)
21. George Horne (31)
22. Sam Johnson (42)
23. DTH van der Merwe (110)

Not available due to injury: Fraser Brown (knee), Zander Fagerson (ankle), Rory Hughes (shoulder), Huw Jones (chest), Lee Jones (knee), Lelia Masaga (calf), Kiran McDonald (calf) and George Turner (ankle).

A few changes as predicted.

Rae, Swinson and Wilson all start, to give a bit more of an edge to the Glasgow pack.

The lesser spotted Alex Dunbar comes back in at OC to see if he can stay in the mix. Sam Johnson on the bench makes a timely come back from injury as well to put himself into euro contention and hopefully a 6N squad place.

Scotland international back-row Jamie Ritchie will return to Edinburgh’s starting XV for tomorrow afternoon’s 1872 Cup second leg against Glasgow Warriors at Scotstoun Stadium (Saturday 29 December, kick-off 3pm) – live on Premier Sports.
The inclusion of Ritchie – who missed the capital club’s last two fixtures through injury – is the only alteration to the side that defeated Glasgow 23-7 at BT Murrayfield last weekend.
Ahead of the second leg of the world’s oldest inter-city derby fixture, Head Coach Richard Cockerill said: “We were delighted with result and the performance against Glasgow last weekend, but we know they’ll be hurting and we expect them to come back at us even stronger.
“There were a lot of positives to take out of last weekend’s win. We were really happy with our physicality and our set-piece, whilst we were really solid defensivley.
“The boys have enjoyed a little bit of time off over Christmas, but we’ve come back in, trained really well and we’re excited for the challenge that awaits us at Scotstoun tomorrow.”
An unchanged back-three sees fullback Blair Kinghorn named alongside wingers Darcy Graham and Duhan van der Merwe, with the latter grabbing a brace of tries in last weekend’s win over the Warriors.
James Johnstone and Chris Dean are named in midfield together for the fourth straight match, whilst stand-off Jaco van der Walt – who grabbed 13 points in last Saturday’s win – and experienced scrum-half Henry Pyrgos continue at half-back.
In the front-row, Pierre Schoeman – who made his first 1872 Cup appearance last weekend – continues at loosehead prop alongside captain Stuart McInally and WP Nel.
Club centurions Ben Toolis and Grant Gilchrist continue in the second-row, whilst the inclusion of Ritchie at blindside flanker is the only alteration to an otherwise unchanged back-row as Hamish Watson and Fijian No. 8 Viliame Mata complete the pack.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Replacements: 16. David Cherry (9); 17. Allan Dell (54); 18. Simon Berghan (58); 19. Callum Hunter-Hill (9); 20. Luke Crosbie (18); 21 Nathan Fowles (65); 22. Simon Hickey (13); 23. Juan Pablo Socino (11)
Unavailable due to injury: Lewis Carmichael; John Barclay; Magnus Bradbury; Senitiki Nayalo; Matt Scott; Mark Bennett; Damien Hoyland

That’s a good looking Glasgow bench.

Just one of the many things odd in Glasgow, this whole co captain thing!!!

You get a penalty 40 metres out. Batman points at the posts, Gibbons points at the touchline. What happens?

Vice captains I get but co captains..........

tigertattie wrote:Just one of the many things odd in Glasgow, this whole co captain thing!!!

You get a penalty 40 metres out. Batman points at the posts, Gibbons points at the touchline. What happens?

.........

Wee George taps and goes.

Actually, at that moment you need a wise old head to calm things down and make a reasoned judgement: so Niko taps and goes    

Ahhh jimbo, welcome back.

I still say Glasgow are missing a trick with Niko, he needs to have a spell at 9. His madness will keep Edinburgh guessing.

tigertattie wrote:Just one of the many things odd in Glasgow, this whole co captain thing!!!

You get a penalty 40 metres out. Batman points at the posts, Gibbons points at the touchline. What happens?

Vice captains I get but co captains..........

Stafford McDowell decides.

NeilyBroon wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Just one of the many things odd in Glasgow, this whole co captain thing!!!

You get a penalty 40 metres out. Batman points at the posts, Gibbons points at the touchline. What happens?

Vice captains I get but co captains..........

Stafford McDowell decides. Everything. For everyone. Evrytime.

Fixed that for you, Neily

jimbopip wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Just one of the many things odd in Glasgow, this whole co captain thing!!!

You get a penalty 40 metres out. Batman points at the posts, Gibbons points at the touchline. What happens?

Vice captains I get but co captains..........

Stafford McDowell decides. Everything. For everyone. Evrytime.

Fixed that for you, Neily

The Edinburgh penalties too

First blood Edinburgh - we got some points at scotstoun this time!

Glasgow trying to rile Edinburgh up and so far we're taking the bait - need to keep a cool head

Glasgow love an interception! 

Why the long pass Hogg? We were in real trouble there.

Real rollercoaster of a game this!

That's a soft pen but if the ref warned both teams before the game Glasgow can have no complaints

Was a stupid move by Wilson.

There was a lot of space on the blindside there but we were blinkered again - should have been 7 not 3

Welly wrote: Was a stupid move by Wilson.

But he makes the rest around him play better

Lots more Glasgow mistakes again!

Nice counter attack from Edinburgh

Have we taken a bung here?

Yet more mistakes

Glasgow seem to be struggling again. Getting bogged down in an arm wrestle again. Playing right into Edinburgh’s hands

Sounds like the ref is having the most impact on this game.

Who is the older commentator?
Knows nothing about the scrum but will say who should win the pen...

Not impressed with how Gibbons speaks to the ref - just sounds like he's whining

Welly wrote: Who is the older commentator?
Knows nothing about the scrum but will say who should win the pen...

Doddie Weir

Similar game to last week - Edinburgh the better team but not making the most of it. Glasgow lots of penalties and mistakes

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Welly wrote: Who is the older commentator?
Knows nothing about the scrum but will say who should win the pen...

Doddie Weir

Ahh Doddie.

TBF to him that prob would be a pen Glasgow in his era, Shows how much the laws have changed.

Glasgow lack a leader that can control them against a nasty pack.

Welly wrote: Glasgow lack a leader that can control them against a nasty pack.

That's what Wilson is meant to do according to Glasgow fans...

From a Glasgow fan perspective that was a pish half of rugby. From a rugby fan perspective that was also a pish half of rugby.

If I had an ounce of sense I’d go watch Treviso Zebre.

Given that Glasgow had a big wind behind their backs that's definitely advantage Edinburgh