Toulon Vs Edinburgh Sat 12th Jan 17:30 (GMT)

First topic message reminder :

Top against bottom

Theoretically, Toulon could overtake us if they win their next 2 games with a TBP and we get hee haw, but traditionally, French teams will chuck in the towel early doors if they're pretty much out of the reckoning. Will Toulon do that or will they come out firing and try to qualify?

With Edinburgh humping Toulon 40 to 14 last time round at HQ, will Toulon be looking for revenge or will they put out the B team?

Table

European Rugby Champions Cup Pool 5

1 Edinburgh 4 3 0 1 107 56 51 3 15
2 Montpellier 4 2 0 2 103 89 14 3 11
3 Nookie Broons 4 2 0 2 70 97 -27 0 8
4 Toulonnaise 4 1 0 3 90 128 -38 2 6

Venue: Stade Mayol

Ref: Wayne Barnes (England)  Assis Ref 1: Anthony Woodthorpe (England) Assis Ref 2: Simon McConnell (England)  TMO: Rowan Kitt (England)

Edinburgh team to face RC Toulon at Stade Felix-Mayol in the Heineken Champions Cup on Saturday 12 January (kick-off 5.30pm GMT/ 6.30pm local time) – live on BT Sport


15. Blair Kinghorn (75)


14. Darcy Graham (16)

13. James Johnstone (32)

12. Chris Dean (78)

11. Duhan van der Merwe (32)


10. Jaco van der Walt (29)

9. Henry Pyrgos (14)


1. Pierre Schoeman (12)

2. Stuart McInally (131) CAPTAIN

3. WP Nel (126)

4. Ben Toolis (101)

5. Grant Gilchrist (131)

6. Jamie Ritchie (59)

7. Hamish Watson (92)

8. Viliame Mata (50)


Replacements: 16. David Cherry (10); 17. Allan Dell (55); 18. Simon Berghan (60); 19. Fraser McKenzie (106); 20. Luke Crosbie (20); 21. Nathan Fowles (67); 22. Simon Hickey (14); 23. Juan Pablo Socino (13)


Unavailable due to injury: Pietro Ceccarelli; Rory Sutherland; Lewis Carmichael; John Barclay; Magnus Bradbury; Senitiki Nayalo; Luke Hamilton; Matt Scott; Mark Bennett; Damien Hoyland

RC TOULON

15. Mathieu Smaili,
14. JP Pietersen,
13. Mathieu Bastareaud (c),
12. Francois Trinh-Duc,
11. Julian Savea,
10. Anthony Belleau,
9. Rhys Webb,
1. Jean Baptiste Gros,
2. Guilhem Guirado,
3. Emerick Setiano,
4. Juandré Kruger,
5. Romain Taofifenua,
6. Stephane Onambele Mbarga,
7. Facundo Isa,
8. Raphael Lakafia.

Replacements:

16. Anthony Etrillard,
17. Xavier Chiocci,
18. Marcel Van Der Merwe,
19. Jean Monribot,
20. Louis Carbonel,
21. Antoine Zeghdar,
22. Yoann Cottin,
23. Mamuka Gorgodze,

Historically speaking Edinburgh are through now, no team has failed to qualify since the English strop with 19 points, only one team with 18 points has failed as a matter of fact.
I suspect that may not be the case this year. Teams seem to throw in the towel after week two a bit more and the gap between the best and the rest seems to have increased. Simple fact is however that if Glasgow and Edinburgh win all the games they have left they will qualify.

Well done to Cockers and his boys. Really hope they can complete the job next week.

Reflecting on the last 5 weeks, it's very pleasing to watch how Edinburgh's style has been able to evolve and adapt for the different challenges faced - essentially we've been able to come up with a Plan B. In each game the coaches have been able to identify a gameplan to win then have prepared the team to implement it - the players have then delivered.

Against Glasgow we knew we had superiority up front, and similarly knew if we played fast and loose they would probably win. As such our gameplan was dominance up front, box kicks to play the game in their half and a defence to put them under pressure.

Newcastle was a similar story, but we opened up more to get the BP. Kings we blew apart but that's because they're pish as much as anything.

Against Toulon it was Plan B - set piece and box kicks would play into their hands as they are bigger than us. Instead we kept the ball in hand, upped the tempo and attacked heavily in the outside channels and Toulon couldn't cope. The performance was still based on strong set piece and aggressive defence though - they are the baseline requirements.

I suspect we'll see a similar gameplan against Montpellier - they're even bigger and more physical than Toulon so we've got to up the pace.

So I think it's fair to say we should no longer be tarnished with the set piece and box kicks brush - we're so much more than that now. In the last 6 games we're 157 points for, 53 points against!

Agreed RDW, and Cockers deserves real credit for that. It's great seeing the same team adapt to different challenges and mix things up. Pyrgos has grown hugely this season and VDW has responded well to the Hickey signing. This season has been a story of getting more from players, and it's hard to think of an Edinburgh player who hasn't enhanced his reputation this season.

VDM has been superb, although his goal kicking wasn't as good as it has been. He's a fantastic attacking 10 and makes a lot of breaks. If he was SQ he'd definitely be in the conversation for the 6N.

Hickey is a different kind of 10 who is still going to be an important player for us going forward. It usually takes a foreign 10 a while to adapt to a new league too.  It's such a relief having options at 10 for once!

I really hope that the competition from VDW (who I assume you were talking about rather than VDM - though knowing Scottish rugbys track record of playing key players out of position...) is going to help Hickey raise his game with time.

We've definitely had flashes of what he can offer but consistency has been a problem. If he can raise his game to a similar level to where VDW is now we'll be in a great place

Yeah VDW - I usually get that right!

Anyone else slightly annoyed they didn't get the BP?

Ritchie is a class player, maybe doesn't get the plaudits that he deserves but he's a quality operator.

I wince every time Graham goes into contact but he's been fantastic this season, would love to see him get some time in 6 Nations.

VDW's goal kicking has really improved this season and he's a genuine threat.

The really most positive thing is the quality of players who are still to return and will add genuine depth/competition; Carmichael, Barclay, Bradbury, Scott, Bennett, Hoyland

reallybored wrote:Anyone else slightly annoyed they didn't get the BP?

Ritchie is a class player, maybe doesn't get the plaudits that he deserves but he's a quality operator.

I wince every time Graham goes into contact but he's been fantastic this season, would love to see him get some time in 6 Nations.

VDW's goal kicking has really improved this season and he's a genuine threat.

The really most positive thing is the quality of players who are still to return and will add genuine depth/competition; Carmichael, Barclay, Bradbury, Scott, Bennett, Hoyland

Yes! We certainly created enough chances to get one. 1 point would have made a significant difference going into the last round as well.

Agreed on Ritchie - he's had a fantastic season for club and country.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

reallybored wrote:Anyone else slightly annoyed they didn't get the BP?

Ritchie is a class player, maybe doesn't get the plaudits that he deserves but he's a quality operator.

I wince every time Graham goes into contact but he's been fantastic this season, would love to see him get some time in 6 Nations.

VDW's goal kicking has really improved this season and he's a genuine threat.

The really most positive thing is the quality of players who are still to return and will add genuine depth/competition; Carmichael, Barclay, Bradbury, Scott, Bennett, Hoyland

Yes! We certainly created enough chances to get one. 1 point would have made a significant difference going into the last round as well.

Agreed on Ritchie - he's had a fantastic season for club and country.

I'd start Ritchie at 6 against Italy, an absolute pest at the breakdown and a very smart player in the loose. Very similar to McInally imo.

What's the word on return dates for the injured guys?  I'd heard that Scott is expected back in next couple of weeks and that Bradbury is close behind, while Barclay will likely be the tail end of 6 Nations.

Mark Bennett posted on Instagram doing rehab today - lots of jumping exercises so he must be quite far on.

Sounds like most will be back towards the end of the 6N - good timing for the end of season push. They'll struggle to get in the team currently! We could do with s few for the Pro 14 games during the 6N certainly.

No word on charmichael which is a worry - he's been out since the summer with concussion.

I don't think Barclay will get back up to international speed in time for the 6N. He needs to get back playing club rugby and concentrate on the WC squad. The way Ritchie and Skinner are playing you would not say he was a shoe in to get his place back either, he is going to have to get right back into his old form, unless he makes a switch to No.8, where he used to play a lot for at Scarlets.

Barclay doing TV for the Glasgow game, says he is back running and won't be to long!

BigGee wrote:I don't think Barclay will get back up to international speed in time for the 6N. He needs to get back playing club rugby and concentrate on the WC squad. The way Ritchie and Skinner are playing you would not say he was a shoe in to get his place back either, he is going to have to get right back into his old form, unless he makes a switch to No.8, where he used to play a lot for at Scarlets.

Barclay very much is our 8 for Scotland at the moment due to sheer lack over alternatives. He's played plenty 8 for Scarlets so its not new for him (and he's rolled out there for scotland in the past)

Was actually an odd decision to move him to Edinburgh, he'd have been better going to Glasgow in all honesty as at glasgow he'd walk into the first team at 6 or 8 where at Edinburgh he's against Bradbury, Ritchie and the undroppable Big Bill. Barclay is therefore likely to play at 6 for Edinburgh which means less gametime for Ritchie which is a shame from a scotland point of view.

It was very much the right decision for Barclay to come to Edinburgh remembering what the respective clubs were like this time last year when the deal was done. Edinburgh were starting to show signs of recovery but still early days, and were desperately needing leadership. Mata wasn't the player he is now, and Ritchie and Bradbury were still young and developing.

Glasgow had plenty back rows and we're in reasonable shape, and had plenty leadership in the squad.

To be fair, both clubs could have done with him, but as RDW says, his leadership and experience would have been vital for Edinburgh when the deal was announced. Arguably now, he is more needed at Glasgow, but from his own point of view Edinburgh makes more sense. He's not going to be playing every game, he'll be a rotation option and so when the RWC comes round he's not going to have been overworked and should be in a good place.

EWT Spoons wrote:To be fair, both clubs could have done with him, but as RDW says, his leadership and experience would have been vital for Edinburgh when the deal was announced.  Arguably now, he is more needed at Glasgow, but from his own point of view Edinburgh makes more sense.  He's not going to be playing every game, he'll be a rotation option and so when the RWC comes round he's not going to have been overworked and should be in a good place.

By the time he comes back there won't be that many games left until the world cup - his challenge is going to be getting up to speed in time!

fair point

Can we at least agree that he'd walk into any place in the backrow at Glasgow?