England 2019 Six Nations Discussion Thread

[LondonTiger]

First topic message reminder :

Fixtures


Ireland (a)
Saturday 2nd Feb, 16:45 - ITV

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 1: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 2: Alexandre Ruiz (France)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)


France (h)
Sunday 10th Feb, 15:00 - ITV

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
Assistant 2: Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)


Wales (a)
Saturday 23rd Feb, 16:45 - BBC


Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Alexandre Ruiz (France)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)


Italy (h)
Saturday 9th March, 16:45 - ITV

Referee: Nic Berry (Australia)
Assistant 1: Paul Williams (New Zealand)
Assistant 2: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)


Scotland (h)
Saturday 16th March, 17:00 - ITV

Referee: Paul Williams (New Zealand)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)






Squad


For First & Second Tests:

Forwards
Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), Ben Earl (Saracens) *, Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje  Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs), Brad Shields (Wasps), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Jack Singleton (Worcester Warriors) *, Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs), Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)
Backs
Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Ollie Devoto (Exeter Chiefs), Owen Farrell (Saracens) captain, George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Dan Robson (Wasps) *, Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby) *, Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

*Uncapped

Players unavailable due to injury:  Piers Francis (Northampton Saints), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby).

[Guest]

Yep, very true. But how many teams actually manage it? Or, how many teams are prioritising it? I'd say England are doing exactly that and doing it so well it's clearly been a big boon for them in the last 12 months.

[No 7&1/2]

Just failed to add any detail and ended up a bit superficial which was challenged then not responded to.

[Guest]

[No 7&1/2]

We'll leave it there then miaow as after your essays the detail just isn't there. I'll await the build up and response to Wales vs england eagerly. If that's the word.

[Presuming Ed]

I've posted on this and the original 606 under a couple of different guises and enjoyed the banter with some great posters and well as a bit of mild wummery always tongue in cheek. I have recently returned to this board and find many of the great posters have gone and it does seem rather dominated by a few overly verbose, holier than thou and intolerant posters. Knowledgable chaps they may be but seem to have forgotten what good banter is. Remember there are no certainties in sport..............other than Jonny Wilkinson is undoubtedly the finest 10 to have ever played this glorious game.

[Guest]

We'll leave it there then miaow as after your essays the detail just isn't there. I'll await the build up and response to Wales vs england eagerly. If that's the word.

Weird. It's not lacking in detail, it's the exact amount of information I wanted to collect and then post. I wanted to start a discussion ffs - have England fans bring their own thoughts and opinions on something I'd noticed/felt for a while, and then confirmed through looking into the stats. Something you haven't done. I don't know why, genuinely.

[Guest]

And to make this an England v Wales thing says it all tbh. It's petty and personal for you, right?

[No 7&1/2]

Like you said miaow. Just move on. You're not prepared to respond so I presume you just want people to admire the length of your posts and then have you condescend them.

[Guest]

I have responded in the only way I know how - telling my truth as I see it. I wrote what I wanted to; you wrote what you wanted to, and it was anything but constructive. You should try owning that for once.

I presume you just want people to admire the length of your posts

[No 7&1/2]

Almost funny. Bar the part you meant. I think I'll do the honourable thing and just mute you. Hate doing it but the forum has improved since the new mods.

[No 7&1/2]

Sigh. How do you mute someone.

[LondonTiger]

Sigh. How do you mute someone.

Click on their name, then "add to foe list". Not sure if it works in the mobile version though.

[No 7&1/2]

Thanks gone the long way round to get it. Ta.

[Guest]

Derailing: complete

[No 7&1/2]

Another thing to add to your list LT muting does not work in the mobile version.

[Taylorman]

I've posted on this and the original 606 under a couple of different guises and enjoyed the banter with some great posters and well as a bit of mild wummery always tongue in cheek. I have recently returned to this board and find many of the great posters have gone and it does seem rather dominated by a few overly verbose, holier than thou and intolerant posters. Knowledgable chaps they may be but seem to have forgotten what good banter is. Remember there are no certainties in sport..............other than Jonny Wilkinson is undoubtedly the finest 10 to have ever played this glorious game.

Great story, just gotta work on those endings

[stub]

Anyway....

Do you think Eddies chosen Ashton because of his recent French experience or is he just rotating?

Or is Ash our new secret 2nd row?

[Taylorman]

Another thing to add to your list LT muting does not work in the mobile version.

Wel on my iphone i just choose the web version and get the same version as on the desktop. On the mobile version just go to the three line menu drop down on the top right of the page and choose web version.

[Pie]

Billtong drove himself away. He was about to implode with his own self righteousness.

[LondonTiger]

Anyway....

Do you think Eddies chosen Ashton because of his recent French experience or is he just rotating?

Or is Ash our new secret 2nd row?

I think he believes Ashton is better placed to capitalise on weaknesses in the French backs from the start, with Nowell's all action game taking effect from the bench.

France have just one winger in their side, and he is playing FB. Fickou and Penaud are quick for centres but could be found out positionally on the wing.

[lostinwales]

I love the all round chaos that Nowell causes, even though he doesn't score a lot. I think Cokanasinga is very promising, a big and powerful but not one dimensional winger.

It is worth considering that with our current power runners we are going to make holes in the defense, and it may well be that Ashton is the guy to exploit those with his tracking skills.

It is great to have these different options. Ashton may not be my first choice but he may fit into this team very nicely.

[BigTrevsbigmac]

I think this is a good call by EJs I think the French defence particularly midfield will not be able to cope with our ball carriers. Basteraud is too slow.
There should be opportunities for Ashton to do what he does best & track these power runners.

I do hope we see Cockanasinga but probably have to wait until Italy.

[Geordie]

Well maybe Jones thinks theres going to be more space on this game that will suit Ashton's lines of running etc which England can exploit

He seems to feel that Nowell is more suitable for the closer tight games...after all hes a flanker...

[lostinwales]

Well maybe Jones thinks theres going to be more space on this game that will suit Ashton's lines of running etc which England can exploit  

He seems to feel that Nowell is more suitable for the closer tight games...after all hes a flanker...

Yeah all these complaints about France starting the game this week with two centers on the wing, when last week we started with two flankers...

[robbo277]

Literally just wanted to discuss England's fast starts.

https://youtu.be/gm9zeAJMVtc

Good video that touches briefly on the point I made, as well as providing some good analysis on a few different areas.

I think it's fair to say that, as 7 of the 8 tries mentioned have in fact come in the first 2 minutes, this tactic is something that's coming from kick-off. As the video says, it's about manipulating a team in a manner that stops them from getting into the rhythm of the game, as well as utilising set moves/skills to exploit weaknesses they've analysed in the defence.

Good stuff and fits in with Eddie trying to be innovative - but I will point out the bleedin obvious and say that nobody is not going to want to score early on if they can.

But I think the point Miaow is making is that there's a difference between not not wanting to score early and setting up tactically to strike early. Watching that, I'm sure England planned that lineout move and that blindiside slice from the first kick off. Kick into the 22, force the lineout, then run that move. From there they'd got into the 22 and Ireland were rattled. It's more than just scoring in the first 2 minutes, it's having an exact plan of how they're going to score.

It was similar against New Zealand, it was a very deliberate move that drew everyone to the openside before Youngs switched back to the blind.

Putting a £1 on Ashton to score in the first 5 minutes now!

[Scottrf]

I think we can start printing the Grand Slam T-Shirts.

[robbo277]

I think we can start printing the Grand Slam T-Shirts.

We beat Ireland
Who beat Scotland
Who beat Italy
Who are on par with Wales
Who beat France

Seems legit.

[Rugby Fan]

[Sgt_Pooly]

Nice to get somewhat back to the rugby chat.

Interesting move selecting Ashton. The French do have a bit of a fear of the English side apparently, especially at HQ. I think selecting Ashton is a bit of a play towards this with him doing so well over there, I think it's a clever move by Eddie.

[majesticimperialman]

I thought bringing Aston back in for Nowell was a mistake seeing how well Nowell played last week. But then again i also thought that bringing Manu back into the England fold would be a mistake. But just look how well he played last week.

I hope Ashton is a better player for his time playing in France. I guess we will see later on today.

[Scottrf]

I’m more excited about what Ashton can do than worried about him.

[majesticimperialman]

I don't was to jinx England but i do think that if England play like they did last week, and France play like they did last week, that i can see England scoring 30 odd points against France.

But then again it depends on which France team turn up.

[SecretFly]

Let's have a madcap runaround free-running, high-risk, no-defence game just for the lark!? Whatd'yis say?
I know such a game between England and France couldn't happen in the real world, of course..... but one can but dream

[Scottrf]

You miss the 55-35 or whatever game?

[king_carlos]

I've thought Nathan Hughes has looked a bit better these last two games. On both occasions he has spent time on the field alongside Billy though which is very different to acting as a primary carrier without him.

1.Genge 2.George 3.Sinckler 4.Launchbury 5.Lawes 6.Wilson 7.Curry 8.Hughes

16.LCD 17.Moon 18.Cole 19.Kruis 20.Mercer

I'd happily see a pack such as that against Italy to give the Vunipola brothers a rest and see how well the pack plays in their absence. Covering players of their quality like-for-like is unrealistic but England do need to know how to better adapt their game plan in their absence.

[robbo277]

I've thought Nathan Hughes has looked a bit better these last two games. On both occasions he has spent time on the field alongside Billy though which is very different to acting as a primary carrier without him.

1.Genge 2.George 3.Sinckler 4.Launchbury 5.Lawes 6.Wilson 7.Curry 8.Hughes

16.LCD 17.Moon 18.Cole 19.Kruis 20.Mercer

I'd happily see a pack such as that against Italy to give the Vunipola brothers a rest and see how well the pack plays in their absence. Covering players of their quality like-for-like is unrealistic but England do need to know how to better adapt their game plan in their absence.

I'd be happy with a pack like that for the Italy game. Maybe give Robson and Ford a start as well.

[Geordie]

Is Shields due to be fit this 6n? What about Underhill? And Hartley?

[LondonTiger]

Is Shields due to be fit this 6n? What about Underhill?

Shields was fit to play today. Underhill will not be back I believe.

[Geordie]

Ahh right well I think Shields should be considered for the Italy game.
It's no secret I'm biased towards Wilson but I think we need to give Shields a run out so we can have another run out with him and have options in the back row.

[lostinwales]

Is Shields due to be fit this 6n? What about Underhill?

Shields was fit to play today. Underhill will not be back I believe.

Yeah we are not tackling hard enough without Underhill...

To be honest Curry has been great. Everybody has been great pretty much. Manu wasn't so hot today but still did damage, and having seen it again think that although his pass to Ashton wasn't the best, Ashton should have caught it.

[Geordie]

I think Curry and Wilson have been top drawer and Curry is a long term future England player, but ì just think it be nice to give a couple of other a run out v Italy.

[LondonTiger]

I think Curry and Wilson have been top drawer and Curry is a long term future England player, but ì just think it be nice to give a couple of other a run out v Italy.

Shields, Curry, Hughes works for me against Italy.

[Geordie]

Yeah LT..we need to give players who will be going to the world cup, a couple of starts in games.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Is Shields due to be fit this 6n? What about Underhill?

Shields was fit to play today. Underhill will not be back I believe.

Don't worry Sgt. It's taken shields to be out injured for Wilson to come in.

But if Shields was fit....how come he didn't start ahead of Wilson? (I will not let this lie!)

Seriously though....how well have Curry and Wilson played as a tandem, they just suit each other so well. The amount of times they arrived to a tackle/ruck/support a pair ahead of everyone else was insane, they must have some insane fitness scores.

I'm really loving what Wilson brings to the side. His enthusiasm and just pure happiness to be playing for his country is evident the whole game.

[No 7&1/2]

Jees Sgt. Don't take my comment out of context as you did last week as that was specifically about Ireland as shields was the guy in possession of the shirt. Let's face it after 2 weeks no one in the entire team has played badly. Shields and Cokanasiga coming back to fitness don't jump ahead again and good performance hardly ground breaking. Wilson has played well and taken his chance after an injury to shields be happy.
Personally I wouldn't make too many changes for Italy which is still a mile away. We may be on for a slam we may be locking our wounds. I'd be giving curry a rest out of the back row. He's taken some knocks is only 20 and may need a break.

[Sgt_Pooly]

I'm only messing...

Just giving you a bit of payback.

[No 7&1/2]

Ha not sure payback is deserved! Hope you kee0 ppint8ng this out to London too like as he also said he felt Jones would go with Shields. It's 1 of those things that I'm not overly fussed by as it's a much nicer discussion than when they're all playing uselessly!

[BamBam]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-6701755/Baths-giant-prop-Beno-Obano-opens-year-hell.html

I know it's the Mail, but this is a good read. Didn't realise how bad his injury was, hope he can get back fit and firing quickly

[No 7&1/2]

Retiring to the relative safety of this thread away from hearing how great the Welsh are and then go read that. Ouch.
Slip of the tongue regarding hoping it was an accident but you can imagine rubbing people up the wrong way in a hard training session and someone looking to smash you back?

[BamBam]

Yeah, reading that it sounds like he backtracked very quickly and said "I hope, no I believe that it was an accident"

Its forgivable though, must still be a very painful memory given it cost him a year of his career.

His wider point is very true though, the levels of contact deemed acceptable in a "light contact" session are completely dependent on individual players, and especially when the environment is as competitive as it is, there's almost an inherent risk. You're far more likely to get injured if you're going at half speed against someone at full speed than in a match setting where you're both going all out

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