The future of the rugby forum

[RDW]

First topic message reminder :

Folks,

For those who do not already know, Hero (the original founder of the forum) is stepping down from running the site and I am taking over from him. The first big announcement is that I’ve up-rated the rugby moderating team, with George Carlin stepping up to rugby Administrator and new mods Biggee, London Tiger and maestagmafia created. There will be an Irish/Northern Irish mod to come but they haven’t opened their PM yet asking if they want to do it!

I’m keen to get people’s opinions on the site, good or bad, and to hear ideas on how we can make the site better. I would appreciate if this doesn’t just become a moan about mods – once again worth reminding that we are all volunteers who try to do our best in our spare time. Hopefully adding more moderators will help complaints be resolved more quickly. Ultimately though if all posters treat each other with respect and act with maturity we wouldn’t have any modding to do!

So I’ll leave this as an open forum to raise any points you want to raise and hopefully we can get some ideas.

Finally, I would appreciate if you could follow our new Twitter account – we used to have one but the password for it is long gone! https://twitter.com/606v2R if you could give a retweet as well that would be super.

Cheers,

RDW (Ross)

[RDW]

So we seem to have stirred a hornets nest recently so I just want to clarify a few things:

First of all 7.5 - I'm afraid you're not going to get a polite message explaining why every post has been deleted. We've had to spend so much time recently dealing with large groups of people wumming against each other and we're not going to spend more time writing out messages explaining why we've done what we've done. This didn't happen on the old 606 and doesn't happen on any other forum that I know of - posts get deleted and that's that. This is not a democracy - the forum is run by a group of people (headed by me) who make the decisions together in the best interest of the forum. If you're not happy about something we've done then PM a mod/admin/me - don't start poo flinging on threads as it just ruins them.

To reiterate for the thousandth time, a lot of moderating is done behind the scenes with PMs and preemptively deleting things that we know are going to cause people to kick off - just because you can't see it happening doesn't mean it isn't. We discuss most issues as a group and I can assure you that no mod is doing things for personal gain or to push their own agenda - I have full transparency on what every mod does and often they are just the messenger (i.e. the person that pushes the button).

Basically we have a large group of people - pretty much a Welsh/English divide with a few others drawn into it - who just fundamentally don't get on yet also seem to enjoy baiting and taunting each other. We try and deal with this as best as we can but it is an impossible situation - if we remove a post or give someone a telling off from one side we get accused of bias for not doing the same to the other. If we do it to both at the same time we're told we're being heavy handed and not allowing the debate to happen. If we do nothing we get told that #insert name here# is constantly saying bad things about the Welsh/English and we do nothing about it. Does all this sound familiar?

You know what the common theme is here though? If people just posted in a positive manner and talked about rugby - with a bit of banter - none of the above would have to happen. Similarly if people didn't assume every post was a personal insult - someone expressing a different opinion doesn't mean they're wumming - the forum would be a much happier place.

So where do we go from here? Fundamentally we have a group who just don't get on and can't seem to be civil to each other. We have tried all kinds of tactics - warning messages, PMs, deleting posts, deleting threads, also trying to let things flow and sort itself out - and yet we're still in the same situation with threads being ruined due to this bickering. I have deliberately left handing out bans as a last resort but we're not far from that being what we have to do.

Ultimately it's up to the posters - if the usual suspects carry on as they do they will be forcing our hand. If they make a conscious effort to stop the baiting it will be recognised, and will make it even more obvious if the other side carries on in that regard.

[TJ]

My view? Its a very small amount of posters who are wrecking this forum and I am sure the mods know who they are. Just ban them.

Unless this is done the forum will simply wither and die as decent posters are driven away by their antics.

I have been on the wrong end of libellous acusations of racism from a couple of these guys and as a result I will hardly every post on here now.

The forum is at a tipping point and without action to ban the trolls it will die.

[No 7&1/2]

Thanks for the response RDW. Not able to access the DMs unless I log off and onto the web version. After checking I don't have anything but very fair point and appreciated.

[Pie]

someone expressing different opinion doesnt mean they're wumming

Unless its Tighthead

A-fooking-men to that

P.s. for people of the the Israel Folau persuasion when I refer to 'fooking men' I am not being literal and no intent to cause offense please dont send me to hell etc etc.

[mikey_dragon]

TJ all you do on this forum is moan. The last time you were here you threw a hissy fit and said you were leaving because you couldn’t get your own way; now here you are again having a whinge. It’s very strange behaviour.

[RDW]

Folks,

We've been having a lot of debate in the rugby modding section recently as things have certainly taken a downturn over the last few months, which has led to a few people leaving. Going forwards therefore I want to clarify the position we're going to take on any posts that don't follow the philosophy of "debate the post, don't attack the poster".

First strike - if we have to red pen or edit one of your posts
Second strike - final warning (public or PM)
Third strike - 3 day immediate ban. which if repeated will become 5 days, 7 days then permanent.

A few points of note on this:

- We're not going to apply these retrospectively as so many people are guilty. Take this as a clean slate and an opportunity to think about changes you can make to your own posting style.
- We are all volunteers and are not going to review every single post, an as such there is a chance we might miss things. As such we would appreciate your patience and help with this - if you spot someone posting aggressively or not adhering to site rules please report it. Conversely, remember that just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they should be reported - we don't want spammed with reports.

I hope this post has been taken in the spirit that it is intended - we don't actually want to ban people, and we don't want to be headmasters constantly telling people off. We're all here because we enjoy talking about rugby - if you are here to get into aggressive arguments and wind people up then you're not going to last much longer.

[No 7&1/2]

Like Folou you can't say we haven't been warned.

[Cyril]

Is there any chance the PM and quote features can be added to the mobile version? I, am am sure many others, don’t use the web version as it’s pretty clunky. Do you have any sway with the forum providers?

[RDW]

I have looked in the past when people previously brought this up but didn't get anywhere - I'll have another dig and see if there is anyone I can contact about it.

Personally I don't like the mobile version - I like having the same format as the web page. It isn't too clunky for me but it might be different on other people's phones.

Given 90% of the posts on here are probably done while on the toilet at work I can see why people have issues with it!

[SecretFly]

Web version is a saviour - can't do nothing easy with the mobile version... like trying to make a handmade watch with polar explorer mittens on!

[RiscaGame]

I find the web version 100% easier on my iPhone (via google app).

[tigertattie]

I have looked in the past when people previously brought this up but didn't get anywhere - I'll have another dig and see if there is anyone I can contact about it.

Personally I don't like the mobile version - I like having the same format as the web page. It isn't too clunky for me but it might be different on other people's phones.

Given 90% of the posts on here are probably done while on the toilet at work I can see why people have issues with it!

Thats why 90% of posts (mostly my own) are utter Sh............

I'll get my coat

[BamBam]

Yeah I always use the web version too, don't like the mobile view

[LondonTiger]

Yeah I always use the web version too, don't like the mobile view

Same. Use web version via Chrome mobile. Have to turn phone to landscape to be able to read things and keep it full width to the page, but the mobile version sucks.

[SecretFly]

.... em, pass the roll there....

[TJ]

I made a probably unwise post on here that was moderated - probably correctly. I would however like to discuss this with the mods but my PM function appears to be turned off. Any of the mods / big gee want to discuss this with me?

[RDW]

You should be able to reply to Biggee now TJ

[RDW]

There's been a few comments lately about too many threads being locked, however the reality is of the 30 threads that have been commented on in the last week only 2 are locked - the Folau thread (which well and truly had been done to death) and the Leo Cullen one which had similarly been done to death and closed at user request. This thread was locked while we tidied up a few things (and I forgot to unlock it!) - again just because you can't see things doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Compared to a few months ago the forum is in a much better place so thanks to everyone for (generally) taking on board our comments about positive posting, and thanks also to the mods who are doing a good job in what is a very difficult job to do!

[Cyril]

The forum seems worse if anything. Just NH vs SH excrement chucking. There’s no point commenting on most threads as it’s just ‘your country/hemisphere’ is shoite’ nonsense.

[Collapse2005]

Why don't you publish an article that interests you Cyril and avoid the ones that don't? Make a positive contribution?

[BamBam]

Genuine question .. why did the final Lions 23 thread disappear?

[No 7&1/2]

To prevent a Wales vs England argument I'd think.

[BamBam]

Must have missed it

[SecretFly]

Genuine question .. why did the final Lions 23 thread disappear?

Coz I requested it.

I just don't like seeing the word Lions and the number 23 together. I'm offended by it actually. So....well, you know, I had to threaten legal action on 606. They were good sports to be fair, and told me it wouldn't happen again.

[BamBam]

I was debating writing 23 in roman numerals but thought that might have been the reason it got deleted

[No 7&1/2]

Ah to be fair now you really do need to look at your new mod. He was a wum as a poster. Hes a wum as a mod who now shuts down anything against Wales and encourages threads to be made on wums against England. He bans English posters for no reason. Failure of a choice I'm afraid. You know who he is.

[RDW]

7.5 once again a reminder that we work as a team and regularly discuss issues on the forum. I sound like a broken record here but if people just posted in a positive manner and debated the post instead of attacking the poster we wouldn't even need mods - that's the key issue here, not supposed biased modding

Our 3 strikes system is working well and has made a difference - we have our hit list of how many strikes each poster has and every main nationality on the forum is represented.

[No 7&1/2]

It's got to the point that I need to say it. You can see clearly from today that there isnt the consistency. If you want to take collective responsibility for enough. You're getting wrong. If you're censoring tighthead for wumming Wales fine. Don't ignore ebop then certainly don't encourage to create a tread based on a lie. Not consistent. Everyone can and does have a snide remark every so often the mods in my mind need to be whiter than white. Let's face it one isnt. I'll leave it there for tonight as frankly I'm annoyed on here for the first time in a good while. I guess he wins.

[mikey_dragon]

The English don’t like being moderated, plain and simple.

[BigGee]

Truth is Mikey, no one likes being moderated. Generalisations like that are probably not very helpful, nor are they true.

Being moderated generally means that you have massively overstepped the mark, which plenty of posters do acknowledge in the cold light of day or you are out of kilter with the philosophy of the forum.

Remember the strength of this forum, that it is multi-national and encourages debate from all perspectives, is also its weakness, in that it opens up old feelings and rivalries and we can all get more than a little bit one eyed about our teams.

It is very easy to say something that crosses the line of contention and into antagonism in a medium such as this. In the printed word, without any other visual clues as to what really is meant, it can be very easy to misinterpret things and that initial misunderstanding is often the cause of things degenerating and things then becoming personal, which we cannot allow.

Everyone needs to take some responsibility for what they post and if it is misinterpreted, it is actually easy enough to row back and correct it.

It might also be helpful if we all tried to move away from nationality monikers a bit more, they are almost guaranteed to get heckles rising and are the underlying cause of a lot of the issues that require moderating. A bad post is a bad post and does not necessarily need assigning to a whole nation!

In my experience on here, all nationalities can come out with some old tripe at times, the Scots as much as anyone.

Probably worth saying as well, just how little moderating actually does go on. I was concerned when I took on the role that it was going to become all consuming and wondered whether I would have the time to do it properly.

Happy to report that it has not been and the majority of threads come and go without any input from us, which can leave us more time to talk about rugby, which is what we all like to do at the end of the day.

[mikey_dragon]

So why are they only complaining about it now? There seemed like there was some reluctance to moderate the usual suspects ruining the Wales threads, until now where we have a welsh moderator, hence the crying. Just stop ruining our threads and you’ll be fine.

[BigGee]

Mikey
Just have a think about my previous post and then ask yourself if you think what you have just written is constructive in any shape or form?

I will leave it at that

[mikey_dragon]

It’s probably not a constructive post. All I’m saying is that a few right here like to give it out but dislike being moderated, and actually have the audacity to complain about it.

[BigTrevsbigmac]

...

It’s the main reason I very rarely contribute anymore.

[LondonTiger]

It’s the main reason I very rarely contribute anymore.

Trev, I edited your post removing the section you quoted. I do not feel we needed the quoted portion to be restated, however your full post has been noted.

[SecretFly]

Make me the Mod of Mods!  Give me the power to ban mods for being over-modidistic!

Go on.  Yis know you want me ruling 606 with the Sword of Righteousness in one Hand and Tony Montana's AR-15 in the other.

[LondonTiger]

Make me the Mod of Mods!  Give me the power to ban mods for being over-modidistic!

Go on.  Yis know you want me ruling 606 with the Sword of Righteousness in one Hand and Tony Montana's AR-15 in the other.

You have the button - you just need to find it.

[SecretFly]

It’s the main reason I very rarely contribute anymore.

Trev, I edited your post removing the section you quoted. I do not feel we needed the quoted portion to be restated, however your full post has been noted.

A little point though, Tiger.  By removing a section of Trev's post, it now appears that Trev is agreeing with the direct post above him (Mikey).  From my memory of the entire post, (I could be wrong) I don't think that was Trev's intention?
Think much care has to be taken in modifying people's comments here and making the abridged versions appear as authentic posts with the ensuing potential of implying a very different meaning to the poster's original words.
I think posters should simply be asked to they want to modify their words themselves to omit a presumed offending passage or have the post completely deleted.  Better a post completely deleted than to change/abridge quotes of another contributor to potentially change meaning.

[SecretFly]

Make me the Mod of Mods!  Give me the power to ban mods for being over-modidistic!

Go on.  Yis know you want me ruling 606 with the Sword of Righteousness in one Hand and Tony Montana's AR-15 in the other.

You have the button - you just need to find it.

I wouldn't use it of course.

[BigGee]

That is a fair point Fly, but the reason we modify post is to try and stop situations escalating and in reality, that has to be done in real time.

On a personal level, I try to modify things as infrequently as possible and to take out as little as possible, without losing the meaning.

I would accept though that we don't always get it right. It is far from an exact science and I would hope that most posters would appreciate that.

[SecretFly]

That is a fair point Fly, but the reason we modify post is to try and stop situations escalating and in reality, that has to be done in real time.

On a personal level, I try to modify things as infrequently as possible and to take out as little as possible, without losing the meaning.

I would accept though that we don't always get it right. It is far from an exact science and I would hope that most posters would appreciate that.

As always with me, BeeGee, and increasingly now in the present climate, I think of how potentially dangerous certain things can be in the wider context.  It's just an age of heightened sensitivity to the rights of the individual to a voice verses the role of 'society' in controlling aspects of that society.  In the hands of a despot, moderation of online voices might see individuals in society 'say' things they never said, have 'opinions' they never sanctioned.
So I don't just think of here.  I think of the wider context deeply into all levels of social media.  We all have opinions on what kind of society we want, we all have the right to engage in that online conversation.  Our opinions must be electronically recorded accurately.  That's a big responsibility because not to do so could be personally dangerous for the welfare of the individual but also risks giving one world view a falsely rated preference over another.

Just thoughts, BeeGee.  I know you guys are just trying to keep some sports pages respectful.

[No 7&1/2]

Again. You need to review your mods. A welsh member accusing clubs among corruption and calling other posters racist is fine. Questioning hypocrisy ends in a ban.

[LordDowlais]

The moderating is done as a team, not one single moderator makes a decision. You do realise this ? If somebody has been banned, for whatever reason, I am sure the moderating "team" have good cause.

[Collapse2005]

Who was banned?

[Pie]

Again. You need to review your mods. A welsh member accusing clubs among corruption and calling other posters racist is fine. Questioning hypocrisy ends in a ban.

isn't identifying their nationality, which is otherwise irrelevant, be racist?

[Cyril]

Wasn’t the racist call-out for someone using the word ‘bleating’? Not sure how that could be considered racist or even, given a nation was mentioned, xenophobic.

All that being said, there’s some heavy-handed modding going on. The red pen is out!

[SecretFly]

I thought we'd all left school quite a time ago...ok, some of us quite quite a long time ago
.... but, isn't it way past time mature people on the internet started acting that way?  

"Miss, Miss!  He pulled my hair from behind and jabbed a pencil into my ear but you blame me for causing it just coz I flung his books across the classroom and jabbed him in the arm with my compass!"

Christ it's often like being straight back in school with all the complaining and running to the teachers to get your biggest enemy expelled.  The Horror!  I'm getting PTS symptoms now........ AND I BLAME YOU LOT!!!!!

[BigGee]

There have been a few unpleasant post just put up on here concerning the moderating team. Therse have been removed, as they were personal and unnecessary.

The point of this thread was to allow people to make some constructive comments about the future of the forum.

I think it is probably fair to say that the slating of moderators is not a very constructive process.

As has often been pointed out, our moderating is done collectively and not by any one individual. It works much better that way, both for posters and moderators.

Most people would probably agree that moderating is a necessary evil.

We actually moderate very little on here and never without some thought or discussion first.

Can we please return this thread to the the subject for which it was meant. If it has become just a place for people to moan and vent their spleen at moderators, then it is probably serving no purpose.

[RDW]

I've removed a few posts from the last hour - being a mod doesn't mean you should have to take personal comments like has been posted, no different from any other poster.

I get people can be frustrated when they get a short term ban, and without going into details of individuals a few bans were handed out for not heeding warnings to move on, plus it was their 3rd strike which leads to a short term ban. People often focus on their last post as a reason for a ban but that's generally not the case - the ban is the result of a build up over the last weeks and months as opposed to a single post.

As Biggee says this thread was not intended to just be a moan about moderating so it will be locked for good the next time this happens. You're welcome to PM me or any of the mods or admins if you have an issue.

[RDW]

Double teamed!

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