Pro14 is dead...

Well we are nearing the end of the normal season and going into the knock out stages, and thanks to Premier Sports I can know say with confidence that my earlier prediction has materialised and the day has killed the Pro14.

They promised 1 game on FreeSports every week. Well unless you follow Zebre or the Kings you’ve not had that game. The Ospreys have not had one game shown on FreeSports. As for free to air coverage on S4C that has also been hit or miss, with them banning the red button English cometary, and again covering games with little interest.

So , since the conception of the league, this is the first season I’ve not been able to follow with interest. No (little) live coverage of games, no magazine show I’ve been able to watch to keep up with the league. I’ve managed to get to minimum Ospreys home games this season, due to family commitments. Basically, only rugby I’ve been able to follow has been the 6 Nations.

Thanks, Pro14, you played a stormer selling out. Enjoy the cash injection it brought, as it won’t last...

Nah mate, it’s all good. I watch seven games of rugby a week as well as occasionally Scottish Cup, La Liga, Serie A plus Eredivisie, Chinese Super League, NHL and every so often some of they mad Irish sports where you batter each other with big sticks. Quality television, let me tell you.

Premier Sports is great value for money and the Pro14 is more competitive than ever before. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to watch it. You can always take yourself down some Welsh domestic rugby with the other bloke and his dog.

You really don't get much better value than the pro 14 for a tenner a week.

Keep it coming!

The pro14 is alive and kicking in my home too.
Been a cracking season so far

All games for less than a tenner - much better value than that rip off Sky Sports

It"s brilliantly covered by Premier. That being said I cancelled my subscription as they blocked me for no reason so I went with the illegal streaming sites which are much better value

Is the English Prem and Top 14 on free to air?

Kingshu wrote:Is the English Prem and Top 14 on free to air?

A few English Premiership games per season.

Just watched first half of Bridgend/Llanelli, along with 189 other people via Beeb website and what looked like a similar number in the stands. If not dead, that probably counts as comatose.

LondonTiger wrote:Just watched first half of Bridgend/Llanelli, along with 189 other people via Beeb website and what looked like a similar number in the stands. If not dead, that probably counts as comatose.

Come on now, we’ve been told the Welsh Prem is stealing a march on the Pro 14. Such big interest. Swollen stands every week.

Hi pie, I could not agree more with you. The thing is, outside of the Pro14 enthusiasts, the Pro14 is dead. Especially in Wales. The thing is, football is number one, and people will pay for SKY to watch it, they will not pay for both football and rugby.

What has this done ? Well, it's killed off any potential new fans. Anywhere outside of Newport, Llanelli, Swansea and Cardiff, the Pro14 is dead. But there are a lot of enthusiasts on here that will try and tell you different, Oracle, Risca, Phil, they are all talking nonsense.

Yes it is a good deal on Prem Sports, but people will not pay for it, and I have been saying this since day one, taking the Pro14 off free to air TV will end up being a disaster for the league, and I will honestly say as well, people should enjoy the current national team now whilst it lasts, as this will more than likely be the last one that can achive what it is at the moment.

It is already being spoken about in the Welsh media how damaging the pay per view is for the league.

The PRO14 is an invisible, convoluted mess that most people simply don't care about

The future of Welsh rugby doesn't look too bright in the PRO14

It was at a dinner table in a Cardiff Thai restaurant earlier this week that the message struck home more powerfully than for some time.

There we were, a bunch of rugby enthusiasts, discussing various issues affecting the game, when I issued my pals with a starter for 10.


"Which of the two Guinness PRO14 conferences do the four Welsh regions play in? Conference A or Conference B?"

An immediate bout of conferring ensued, but despite a variety of responses being thrown my way all five friends were forced into a resigned admission.

These were guesses. In terms of knowing the correct answer with any degree of certainty, not one of them had the faintest beginnings of an inkling of an idea.

Disturbingly, they will be far from alone.

Regional diehards will snort derision, but such derision merely underlines the point: the PRO14 is arguably less a part of the Welsh public's general sporting consciousness than at any time since the old club system was done away with in 2003 to usher in the brave new world of Welsh-Scottish-Irish-Italian combat.

And without an appeal to a more casual consumer base, its hard to see anything changing.

Over and above the stagnation - or decline - in match attendance here, data to underline the pervading sense of apathy is scarce.

Broadcaster Premier Sports recently declared subscriptions had exceeded their expectations, but such sweeping statements have little currency. Viewing figures since the paid-for channel took over coverage of the Guinness-backed tournament have been conspicuous by their absence. In fact, several requests for them by this organisation have proved fruitless.

Why? Is it because the unpalatable reality is that Guinness PRO14 rugby has become more invisible than ever since the bulk of it was removed from free-to-air TV?

Nobody disputes that the extra revenue on offer from Premier Sports was of huge importance to the regions, but if nobody's talking about what they're doing that revenue will soon start to drip away in more insidious streams.

After five months of bedding in, it is now difficult to argue that Premier Sports is not a reasonably safe pair of hands, despite one or two teething problems in the commentary box.

That shouldn't be a surprise because, let's face it, they've recruited so many who used to be involved with the BBC Scrum V programme. But how many are watching?

There are those who are adamant that the £10-a-month fee is worth every penny. Many more refuse point blank to pay yet another broadcaster for the privilege of watching rugby in their living rooms, especially when they don't particularly rate the product.

Furthermore, what you can't do, for the most part, is meet your mates down the pub to watch the game.

S4C have limited rights, sure. There's also the odd match on FreeSports if Southern Kings v Connacht takes your fancy.

But, for example, walking into your local over the Christmas period to watch the Welsh derby games wasn't an option in some towns. Not mine at any rate.

Doubtless there is the odd exception, but plenty of pubs simply don't screen Premier Sports. Who can blame them when it already costs thousands to provide Sky and BT?

Late last month, on a Friday night, Glasgow and the Ospreys played out a 9-3 affair at Scotstoun and the Scarlets went down 22-17 to Leinster in Dublin in what was a far perkier encounter.

While those two games were tucked behind a subscription paywall, Arsenal were playing Manchester United in the fourth round of the FA Cup on BBC One.

Given the mass appeal of what was happening at the Emirates Stadium, I would be surprised if the Welsh television audience for the rugby ran into four figures.

The PRO14, and all of its previous guises, has, and has always had, an image problem. It has always been given short shrift by UK national newspaper sports desks who don't regard it worthy of allocating a proper resource.

The introduction of South African teams, the move to two Conferences and the greater jeopardy introduced around qualification for the Champions Cup were all supposed to address that.

I am deeply unconvinced about whether, in terms of the PRO14 appeal in Wales, any of the above have come close to having the desired effect.

The conference system has just made following how the competition is unfolding more convoluted. The presence of the South Africans? It's neither here nor there. The Kings and the Cheetahs certainly don't boost turnstile revenue, so why should they be having any tangible impact on armchair watchers?

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/pro14-invisible-convoluted-mess-most-15736120

Newsflash
Wales is not the entire World

There may well be issue in Welsh rugby - hasn't there always been ?
This does not mean that there is a lack of interest elsewhere
Take the blinkers off and look at the bigger picture

geoff999rugby wrote:Take the blinkers off and look at the bigger picture

I could say the exact same thing to you. The thing is, and it is a trait with a lot of the Irish fans, although not all, but you really do need to get down off your high horse. Nothing has changed for the Irish viewers, yo can still get all your sports under one subscription.

No wonder some people call the league the Pr'O 14.

The bigger picture is the future of the league. There isn't one in my opinion under the current agreement. Short term gain, and long term pain spring to mind.

Rugby is never going to be as big as football anywhere in the world. If that’s your metric of success then you’re always going to be disappointed with whatever the Pro14 becomes in the future.

Someone, I forget who it was, made a very apt point on this topic many moons ago in that much like Rugby League who knows who it’s demographic the pro14 can still enjoy enormous amounts of success so long as it remains well financed and understand who watches it.

So the answer to the question is the Pro14 dead is no. It just doesn’t have delusions of world domination. This year the final is in a football-mad city on the same day as the Scottish Cup final and it looks like it will be a big one. Though In a somewhat cruel twist of fate for some of us, it’s at that place, but that’s nothing some strong whisky can’t fix.

LordDowlais wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Take the blinkers off and look at the bigger picture

I could say the exact same thing to you. The thing is, and it is a trait with a lot of the Irish fans, although not all, but you really do need to get down off your high horse. Nothing has changed for the Irish viewers, yo can still get all your sports under one subscription.

No wonder some people call the league the Pr'O 14.

The bigger picture is the future of the league. There isn't one in my opinion under the current agreement. Short term gain, and long term pain spring to mind.

Really? What subscription is then?

Eejit wrote:Someone, I forget who it was, made a very apt point on this topic many moons ago in that much like Rugby League who knows who it’s demographic the pro14 can still enjoy enormous amounts of success so long as it remains well financed and understand who watches it.

Rugby league is also aided by the fact that it is on the same subscription as a certain world conquering sport that is the Premier League football. You buy SKY for the football, you have access to Rugby league as well.

Eejit wrote:Rugby is never going to be as big as football anywhere in the world. If that’s your metric of success then you’re always going to be disappointed with whatever the Pro14 becomes in the future.

Nobody has even suggested this. What a strange thing to say. The problem is, the Pro14 is dying a slow death, especially in Wales, it's popularity is going backwards, as apposed to it being stable whilst on free to air TV.

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Take the blinkers off and look at the bigger picture

I could say the exact same thing to you. The thing is, and it is a trait with a lot of the Irish fans, although not all, but you really do need to get down off your high horse. Nothing has changed for the Irish viewers, yo can still get all your sports under one subscription.

No wonder some people call the league the Pr'O 14.

The bigger picture is the future of the league. There isn't one in my opinion under the current agreement. Short term gain, and long term pain spring to mind.

Really? What subscription is then?

EIR Sports.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Take the blinkers off and look at the bigger picture

I could say the exact same thing to you. The thing is, and it is a trait with a lot of the Irish fans, although not all, but you really do need to get down off your high horse. Nothing has changed for the Irish viewers, yo can still get all your sports under one subscription.

No wonder some people call the league the Pr'O 14.

The bigger picture is the future of the league. There isn't one in my opinion under the current agreement. Short term gain, and long term pain spring to mind.

Really? What subscription is then?

EIR Sports.

Funny, I can't get that subscription

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Take the blinkers off and look at the bigger picture

I could say the exact same thing to you. The thing is, and it is a trait with a lot of the Irish fans, although not all, but you really do need to get down off your high horse. Nothing has changed for the Irish viewers, yo can still get all your sports under one subscription.

No wonder some people call the league the Pr'O 14.

The bigger picture is the future of the league. There isn't one in my opinion under the current agreement. Short term gain, and long term pain spring to mind.

Really? What subscription is then?

EIR Sports.

Funny, I can't get that subscription

Yes you can Marty. Stop trying to be clever, we all know you can get this in N Ireland. Google is you friend if you need to know how. I can provide you with a link if you like ?

The BBC coverage was half-arsed, low budget, not in HD and in languages nobody understands. I know you don't want to admit it LD, but the subscription model is sustainable and it is working.

The fact that you're still angry about the EIR Sport thing is frankly ridiculous - are you equally mad at South Africans and their SuperSport package? Honest to god mate, you are an absolute bore with this and what makes it so much worse is how indescribably misguided you are about the whole process.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Take the blinkers off and look at the bigger picture

I could say the exact same thing to you. The thing is, and it is a trait with a lot of the Irish fans, although not all, but you really do need to get down off your high horse. Nothing has changed for the Irish viewers, yo can still get all your sports under one subscription.

No wonder some people call the league the Pr'O 14.

The bigger picture is the future of the league. There isn't one in my opinion under the current agreement. Short term gain, and long term pain spring to mind.

Really? What subscription is then?

EIR Sports.

Funny, I can't get that subscription

Yes you can Marty. Stop trying to be clever, we all know you can get this in N Ireland. Google is you friend if you need to know how. I can provide you with a link if you like ?

I think it's €28 per month in rep Ireland if you don't have eir broadband.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Take the blinkers off and look at the bigger picture

I could say the exact same thing to you. The thing is, and it is a trait with a lot of the Irish fans, although not all, but you really do need to get down off your high horse. Nothing has changed for the Irish viewers, yo can still get all your sports under one subscription.

No wonder some people call the league the Pr'O 14.

The bigger picture is the future of the league. There isn't one in my opinion under the current agreement. Short term gain, and long term pain spring to mind.

Really? What subscription is then?

EIR Sports.

Funny, I can't get that subscription

Yes you can Marty. Stop trying to be clever, we all know you can get this in N Ireland. Google is you friend if you need to know how. I can provide you with a link if you like ?

Go ahead, provide the link

Eejit wrote:The BBC coverage was half-arsed, low budget, not in HD and in languages nobody understands. I know you don't want to admit it LD, but the subscription model is sustainable and it is working.

Not in Wales it wasn't. It was HD on BBC Wales and S4C, also it was in English. I am not saying that the current model is not sustainable either, again, another silly thing to come out with.

Eejit wrote:The fact that you're still angry about the EIR Sport thing is frankly ridiculous - are you equally mad at South Africans and their SuperSport package? Honest to god mate, you are an absolute bore with this and what makes it so much worse is how indescribably misguided you are about the whole process.

I am not angry about EIR sports. Again, why do you keep making these silly references ? I am annoyed that certain Irish members on here think they can tell people how it is, with regards to subscriptions when nothing has changed for them.

LordDowlais wrote:

Eejit wrote:The BBC coverage was half-arsed, low budget, not in HD and in languages nobody understands. I know you don't want to admit it LD, but the subscription model is sustainable and it is working.

Not in Wales it wasn't. It was HD on BBC Wales and S4C, also it was in English. I am not saying that the current model is not sustainable either, again, another silly thing to come out with.

Eejit wrote:The fact that you're still angry about the EIR Sport thing is frankly ridiculous - are you equally mad at South Africans and their SuperSport package? Honest to god mate, you are an absolute bore with this and what makes it so much worse is how indescribably misguided you are about the whole process.

I am not angry about EIR sports. Again, why do you keep making these silly references ? I am annoyed that certain Irish members on here think they can tell people how it is, with regards to subscriptions when nothing has changed for them.

Why do you insist on calling reasonable points that are proving you wrong as silly? There's a reason there's why multiple people are telling you that you are incorrect, just have the good grace to admit it.

Anyway, I am done arguing the toss over this, I am off again from this forum for a few days. Eejit, you are quoting things I am not even saying.

Bye.

LordDowlais wrote:Anyway, I am done arguing the toss over this, I am off again from this forum for a few days.

Bye.

Guess you couldn't find that link then?

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Anyway, I am done arguing the toss over this, I am off again from this forum for a few days.

Bye.

Guess you couldn't find that link then?

It really is beyond belief isn't it. He posts an essay of facile bullcrap, gets called on his nonsense, blames the Irish for everything and then nonces off when he gets found out. Its embarrassing.

There is honest disagreement amongst good posters and then there are toxic trolls like him that are here to stir the pot and annoy people.

Guess I'll just leave this here from the Pro14 FAQ sheet on eirSports

Q: Can I get eir sport in Northern Ireland?
A: No, eir sport is only available in the Republic of Ireland.

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2018/05/03/qa-for-eir-sport-broadcast-partnership/

Eejit wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Anyway, I am done arguing the toss over this, I am off again from this forum for a few days.

Bye.

Guess you couldn't find that link then?

It really is beyond belief isn't it. He posts an essay of facile bullcrap, gets called on his nonsense, blames the Irish for everything and then nonces off when he gets found out. Its embarrassing.

There is honest disagreement amongst good posters and then there are toxic trolls like him that are here to stir the pot and annoy people.

Eejit, who do you think you are ?

That essay I posted was not my work, it was from the Welsh national news outlet. So I guess you need to take your issues up with them. I even posted a link.

But I suppose you know more about the Pro14 than people who are payed to report about it.

Eejit wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Anyway, I am done arguing the toss over this, I am off again from this forum for a few days.

Bye.

Guess you couldn't find that link then?

It really is beyond belief isn't it. He posts an essay of facile bullcrap, gets called on his nonsense, blames the Irish for everything and then nonces off when he gets found out. Its embarrassing.

There is honest disagreement amongst good posters and then there are toxic trolls like him that are here to stir the pot and annoy people.

It's what he does, can never provide anything to substantiate anything he claims, everything is always anecdotal and opinion but he digs in rather than admitting he's wrong

Here's a screenshot of the eirSport twitter for a NI resident. All videos are geoblocked...strange they'd cut themselves off from a section of their potential customers like that  

Exiledinborders wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Is the English Prem and Top 14 on free to air?

A few English Premiership games per season.

And all matches available in full on the website.

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/videos/premiership-rugby-tv/

LordDowlais wrote:

Eejit wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Anyway, I am done arguing the toss over this, I am off again from this forum for a few days.

Bye.

Guess you couldn't find that link then?

It really is beyond belief isn't it. He posts an essay of facile bullcrap, gets called on his nonsense, blames the Irish for everything and then nonces off when he gets found out. Its embarrassing.

There is honest disagreement amongst good posters and then there are toxic trolls like him that are here to stir the pot and annoy people.

Eejit, who do you think you are ?

That essay I posted was not my work, it was from the Welsh national news outlet. So I guess you need to take your issues up with them. I even posted a link.

But I suppose you know more about the Pro14 than people who are payed to report about it.

You reposted an article you seem obsessed with, you still can't explain what made those who were asked the question about the conference enthusiasts. The writer says that's exactly who the PremierSports deal attracts yet these so called die hards don't know what conferences the teams belong to?

It's almost like someone made up an anecdote to support their viewpoint, who do we know that does that?

hawalsh wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Is the English Prem and Top 14 on free to air?

A few English Premiership games per season.

And all matches available in full on the website.

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/videos/premiership-rugby-tv/

Are replays of the Pro14 games not all shown on FreeSport too?

Without wanting to stir the pot, I do agree with LD/WOL.

Big problems in Welsh rugby for years, true. Just look at the decline in attendance at the Ospreys from 2009-2019. Coincides with Swansea City's rise.

Reality is, rugby is the people's game in Wales in a way it isn't in any other part of the UK. Maybe hotbeds of England, Ireland, and Scotland would lay claim to that as well - the South West, Munster, the Borders - but still, not quite in the same way in Wales. There isn't the same societal affluence driving and supporting the game as there is in the other 3.

Things weren't perfect before the recession in 2008 but they've got a lot worse since. You can't discount the impact it's had on 'working families' (I hate that politicians' phrase), not least in Wales. Less money means less spending on things like going to the rugby.

But there are loads of other issues as well. Football's rise, the novelty of Celtic league wearing off, the apathy with the regions v clubs, the lack of success with the regions, the rise better of screen technology, the loss of interest in rugby at all levels.

Key to that is the fact that the 'product' of Pro14 rugby is very variable and, often, very poor. I think it's worse to watch than it was 10 years ago - the play-offs made things interesting but the conference system has effectively removed the added jeopardy there in a convoluted, confusing way. Add in the VERY variable team selection from some of the better sides and the Pro14 feels as much like an obligation as a celebration. It's a far cry from any professional football league, whether the Premier League or League Two, where every game matters, every week is important.

But also, removing it from free to air TV is crazy. Wales is a fairly big place - the regions are all packed in to a thin corridor along the south of the country. You're suffering massively with denying a large proportion of the country and 'easy' way to follow the regions, who might then go along to 1 (or 2, or 3 etc.) games in person during the season. With all those things added up that weaken the attachment and meaning for casual fans, you lessen that likelihood. As we've seen with cricket, you also lose out on a generation of youngsters if you take sport off terrestrial TV - hopefully we never have to worry about that happening with the international game (another point feeding in to apathy in Wales - care about Wales but not about the regions or clubs).

The move to Premier Sports was a cash grab that has undoubtedly suited the most powerful country in the league: the Irish. So be it. It's about making the 'brand' of the league more commercially appealing as I sense the aim is to spread it out in to places like America and hope that old-world, top-of-the-morning Irish charm you wheel out for wealthy, 5th generation 'Irish' American tourists will play its part in tapping in to some of the success that 7s has made in places like Chicago etc. Not sure how viable it is, but I think that's the plan.

Anyway, Irish rugby is clearly 'fine'. Loads of money, big crowds, really good player development pathways as far as I can tell. Rivalling England in many ways - so it's a bit stupid to compare Wales and Scotland to them.

However, the move to Premier Sports is a weird one. The Aviva/Jeff was one of the shining second stars on Sky Sports for years. In the fight for telecommunications, BT Sport has probably surpassed Sky as the best sports broadcaster in that they have 50% of 'good' PL football games (might have changed as I'm seeing more and more back on Sky again), every Champions League game, and the English Premiership in rugby. Sky dabbled by picking up some Pro14 but they did a shocking job and clearly their heart wasn't in it, it was just a case of them trying to stop BT siphoning off broadband users.

But this is the point - sport was always 'used' as a way of getting in to peoples' phonelines. It's about internet and phones, not actual sport subscriptions. Sky had that association of aspiration that existed in the 90s, of having Sky Sports as way of 'broadening' your televisual horizons, but the world's changed a lot in that regard. Streaming and free things like YouTube makes subscribing to Sky/BT SOLELY for their TV service absolutely crazy.

I don't even know what Premier Sports' packages are, whether they offer broadband etc., but even if they do, I'm not choosing them over BT. Why? Because I've had shocking internet connections and speeds almost my whole life, and BT is the most reliable and fastest one I could find. Not a fan of Murdoch, either, but ultimately the decision isn't based on sport/entertainment, it's based on function and online access. Sport's a secondary thing: and one of those secondary things is being able to watch the English Premiership from time to time.

If the future of the Pro14 is vibrant, it needs to be on a big/common subscription package like Sky or BT. BT would be ideal as Sky feels tacky and a bit dumbed down in everything they do: everything has to be 'the best thing ever'. It feels very American in its approach, whereas I like the fact BT have taken terrestrial TV elements - like Lineker for football etc. - and just said 'this is good enough'. But even then, it doesn't really matter. Just get it on so it's visible, first of all. I understand why buying an Irish/Welsh/Scottish/Italian/South African league is probably monetarily useless for a broadcaster who's English subscribers make up 90% of the whole, but outside a really core group of fans, LD/WOL is right: no-one is buying Premier Sports just for the rugby, even pubs. You weigh up each decision - is the product good enough, will it get enough punters through the doors etc. - and it seems pretty obvious to just ignore it and go with something else, effectively allowing rugby to die out.

I have no idea about the Irish Premier Sports package, whether it is avaialable as a mainstream subscription service like Sky or BT, but if it is that feels really, really galling.

Any death of rugby in Wales is down to the Welsh.
But LD would never admit that, no it's easier to blame the TV, eir sport, the Irish.
What are the Welsh clubs doing to promote rugby? The WRU?
Look at the social media of Ulster, Bristol Bears, London Irish, Glasgow they are out to in the communities helping out, raising the profile.
Even Saracens, who I'm not always very impressed by, are opening a school ( well last year they were has that changed?) Getting involved in the wider communities, helping with social issues, selling rugby as a way to help everyone not just rugby fans.

Now maybe the Welsh are and it isn't working.
But I can tell you now if you invest in your community you will gain a hell of a lot more than you will by having the rugby on free to air.

Let me get this straight miaow, you don't know what packages PremierSports have? Do you not subscribe?

But yet again though the Irish are blamed for it all because the Pro14 as an entity chose a broadcaster for THE UK

It's funny how Scotland and Ireland don't have issues with subscription services airing their teams and they all faced issues with recessions. I mean it's not like NI has some of the most impoverished areas in Western Europe yet Ulster were able to grow attendances in the same period.

I've said this before but in addition to the Pro14 which is their flagship programming Premier Sports also have Serie A, La Liga, Eredivisie, Scottish Cup, NHL, SHL, KHL, Nascar and various Gaelic sports that I don't quite understand but oddly enjoy. It costs £9.99 a month. Its a bloody great platform and an absolute bargain for the consumer. As part of the deal, the Pro14 has ensured that the broadcaster puts the effort in, that the BBC were just not arsed with.

As other's have said, the onus is on the clubs to develop their fanbase firstly by winning games but also by getting involved in their community.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Take the blinkers off and look at the bigger picture

I could say the exact same thing to you. The thing is, and it is a trait with a lot of the Irish fans, although not all, but you really do need to get down off your high horse. Nothing has changed for the Irish viewers, yo can still get all your sports under one subscription.

No wonder some people call the league the Pr'O 14.

The bigger picture is the future of the league. There isn't one in my opinion under the current agreement. Short term gain, and long term pain spring to mind.

Really? What subscription is then?

EIR Sports.

Funny, I can't get that subscription

Yes you can Marty. Stop trying to be clever, we all know you can get this in N Ireland. Google is you friend if you need to know how. I can provide you with a link if you like ?

He is not being clever he is being truthful - We pay the monthly subscription the same as people in Wales for Premier Sports

If the Pro14 is dead then being alive must be were every team has a shout at the playoffs.

With one game left we still have no idea who the quarter between Conference A second and Conference B third will be.

Pro14 will never be as popular as Man Utd.  If Man Utd v anyone and the WC final in rugby were on at the same time all over the world and no other sport was on Man Utd would probably get more views.

The Pro14 don't expect to be in a place were 10m watch a game live on TV and 20k are in the stadium.  The PRL tried to build a product and have paid for it.

marty2086 wrote:Let me get this straight miaow, you don't know what packages PremierSports have? Do you not subscribe?

But yet again though the Irish are blamed for it all because the Pro14 as an entity chose a broadcaster for THE UK

It's funny how Scotland and Ireland don't have issues with subscription services airing their teams and they all faced issues with recessions. I mean it's not like NI has some of the most impoverished areas in Western Europe yet Ulster were able to grow attendances in the same period.

I don't subscribe, no, because I'm not going to pay £X a month to watch something I can "stream" for free on various channels of the internet. I don't care enough to pay that much money when I only really want to watch Scarlets games away from home. It's a monetary decision - it would be ridiculous for me to subscribe, particularly when S4C has the odd Pro14 game on terrestrial TV as well/I'm often not around to actually watch games when they're being played.

As for the Pro14's decision to choose Premier Sports, it seems a short-sighted money grab. Is it Ireland's fault? Not sure, but Premier Sports is so massively Ireland-centric it's painful. As far as I can tell its slightly better than the start of the season, but still painful.

As for your other points I'm not sure you're even trying to be fair. I don't see Premier League level football teams in and around Belfast, for starters, siphoning off sports fans (particularly youngsters) in the way Swansea and Cardiff have done recently. Wales has many, many problems, as I said. I think you're being disengenous really, trying to pretend that I'm saying none of those issues apply to other areas: of course they do, just not in the same way because of traditional demographics. Cba getting more in to this if you're treating it as a 'gotcha' debate rather than a discussion.

marty2086 wrote:Guess I'll just leave this here from the Pro14 FAQ sheet on eirSports

Q: Can I get eir sport in Northern Ireland?
A: No, eir sport is only available in the Republic of Ireland.

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2018/05/03/qa-for-eir-sport-broadcast-partnership/

The way Brexit is going wait a few years.......

Eejit wrote:I've said this before but in addition to the Pro14 which is their flagship programming Premier Sports also have Serie A, La Liga, Eredivisie, Scottish Cup, NHL, SHL, KHL, Nascar and various Gaelic sports that I don't quite understand but oddly enjoy. It costs £9.99 a month. Its a bloody great platform and an absolute bargain for the consumer. As part of the deal, the Pro14 has ensured that the broadcaster puts the effort in, that the BBC were just not arsed with.

As other's have said, the onus is on the clubs to develop their fanbase firstly by winning games but also by getting involved in their community.

Does it come with broadband/phone line etc.? Or is it just a sports' package?

miaow wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Let me get this straight miaow, you don't know what packages PremierSports have? Do you not subscribe?

But yet again though the Irish are blamed for it all because the Pro14 as an entity chose a broadcaster for THE UK

It's funny how Scotland and Ireland don't have issues with subscription services airing their teams and they all faced issues with recessions. I mean it's not like NI has some of the most impoverished areas in Western Europe yet Ulster were able to grow attendances in the same period.

I don't subscribe, no, because I'm not going to pay £X a month to watch something I can "stream" for free on various channels of the internet. I don't care enough to pay that much money when I only really want to watch Scarlets games away from home. It's a monetary decision - it would be ridiculous for me to subscribe, particularly when S4C has the odd Pro14 game on terrestrial TV as well/I'm often not around to actually watch games when they're being played.

As for the Pro14's decision to choose Premier Sports, it seems a short-sighted money grab. Is it Ireland's fault? Not sure, but Premier Sports is so massively Ireland-centric it's painful. As far as I can tell its slightly better than the start of the season, but still painful.

As for your other points I'm not sure you're even trying to be fair. I don't see Premier League level football teams in and around Belfast, for starters, siphoning off sports fans (particularly youngsters) in the way Swansea and Cardiff have done recently. Wales has many, many problems, as I said. I think you're being disengenous really, trying to pretend that I'm saying none of those issues apply to other areas: of course they do, just not in the same way because of traditional demographics. Cba getting more in to this if you're treating it as a 'gotcha' debate rather than a discussion.

So you watch the Scarlets and criticise the league as a whole?

PremierSports isn't available in RoI only NI, so why would they be Irish centric when it's not available to anyone but Ulster and even then not all of Ulster?

I'm not being fair? I didn't mention the Premier League, I specifically mentioned the recession, since you mentioned the Premier League, which ticket is cheaper, one for a Swansea match or one for an Ospreys match? I'm going to take a stab at Ospreys here yet the recession affects the cheaper option but not the more expensive one?

Brendan wrote:If the Pro14 is dead then being alive must be were every team has a shout at the playoffs.

With one game left we still have no idea who the quarter between Conference A second and Conference B third will be.

Pro14 will never be as popular as Man Utd.  If Man Utd v anyone and the WC final in rugby were on at the same time all over the world and no other sport was on Man Utd would probably get more views.

The Pro14 don't expect to be in a place were 10m watch a game live on TV and 20k are in the stadium.  The PRL tried to build a product and have paid for it.

Agree with this to a point. I still think the structure of the league since it became the Pro14 is clunky and needs some serious work. Its lost any semblance of a league structure, really. It lacks clarity to the casual and even the dedicated fan. But more importantly, talking just about rugby, the Pro14 doesn't have the jeopardy of the English league. Lots of 'tiers' to qualify for, like Europe, play-offs, finishing above country rivals etc., but it's very much a breeding ground for the respective test teams. With weakened teams being played regularly - just look at Treviso's success this season, undoubtedly helped by opponents rotating - and it just feels like a bit 'shrug' of a torunament. Everything in rugby seems to rotate around the RWC, even the 6Ns is struggling to keep its place and importance. As a competition, sadly, the Pro14 is something of an afterthought.

Add to that the fact the broadcaster has removed the traditional boxing day and new year's day games in Wales. Why? For viewing figures, of course! Because people are much more likely to be out for a meal and/or doing other family things on a day where lots/most/all people in a family aren't working. Put those games on the 28th and the 3rd instead, when they can come back in and watch them in the evening, instead. I'm fairly certain attendances dropped at these games this season because of the non-traditional kick off times: whether viewing figures went up is another thing. You can guarantee they were significantly lower than last season, when they aired on the BBC and S4C for free!

So yes, they're never going to get 10m people watching on TV, but they're going to do their level best to try and eek out a few more hundred, perhaps thousand, watchers if they can - even if that means tearing up one of the last remaining vestiges of traditional community rugby in the pro regional game.

miaow wrote:
So yes, they're never going to get 10m people watching on TV, but they're going to do their level best to try and eek out a few more hundred, perhaps thousand, watchers if they can - even if that means tearing up one of the last remaining vestiges of traditional community rugby in the pro regional game.

What does an extra thousand or two watching on BBC do for the Pro14?

marty2086 wrote:

miaow wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Let me get this straight miaow, you don't know what packages PremierSports have? Do you not subscribe?

But yet again though the Irish are blamed for it all because the Pro14 as an entity chose a broadcaster for THE UK

It's funny how Scotland and Ireland don't have issues with subscription services airing their teams and they all faced issues with recessions. I mean it's not like NI has some of the most impoverished areas in Western Europe yet Ulster were able to grow attendances in the same period.

I don't subscribe, no, because I'm not going to pay £X a month to watch something I can "stream" for free on various channels of the internet. I don't care enough to pay that much money when I only really want to watch Scarlets games away from home. It's a monetary decision - it would be ridiculous for me to subscribe, particularly when S4C has the odd Pro14 game on terrestrial TV as well/I'm often not around to actually watch games when they're being played.

As for the Pro14's decision to choose Premier Sports, it seems a short-sighted money grab. Is it Ireland's fault? Not sure, but Premier Sports is so massively Ireland-centric it's painful. As far as I can tell its slightly better than the start of the season, but still painful.

As for your other points I'm not sure you're even trying to be fair. I don't see Premier League level football teams in and around Belfast, for starters, siphoning off sports fans (particularly youngsters) in the way Swansea and Cardiff have done recently. Wales has many, many problems, as I said. I think you're being disengenous really, trying to pretend that I'm saying none of those issues apply to other areas: of course they do, just not in the same way because of traditional demographics. Cba getting more in to this if you're treating it as a 'gotcha' debate rather than a discussion.

So you watch the Scarlets and criticise the league as a whole?

PremierSports isn't available in RoI only NI, so why would they be Irish centric when it's not available to anyone but Ulster and even then not all of Ulster?

I'm not being fair? I didn't mention the Premier League, I specifically mentioned the recession, since you mentioned the Premier League, which ticket is cheaper, one for a Swansea match or one for an Ospreys match? I'm going to take a stab at Ospreys here yet the recession affects the cheaper option but not the more expensive one?

What do you mean the league as a whole? As a concept, yes. It's deeply flawed. Don't get me wrong, I, personally, enjoy what's happened with regular trips to Ireland and Scotland. Adding the Italian teams wasn't a bad idea, particularly when Treviso were looking good around 2013, but that hasn't really worked too well. The South African teams joining just feels like a mess, and in terms of cash grab, with rumours of two of the Super Rugby teams joining in 20/21, it'll be an even bigger mess as you cannot have home and away games in a league with 15 opponents without seriously endangering players (it's already gone too far, tbh).

The broadcast itself is the same whether you're watching in Wales, NI, or ROI, right? It's the same people presenting, editing, producing the actual show - so hopefully that answers the 'front of house' bias. As for actually selling the broadcasting rights off to a minor subscription service, bar the odd game, as I said, the Irish provinces want to move in to new markets like America. They see what PRL and England are doing, with the investment going in there, and it's clear they don't want to be left behind. Hence based on the Irish needs more than any other. And let's not mention the refereeing which...it feels like a bad joke but somehow persists in being awful. Not least Andrew Brace, the Welshman-turned-Irishman who does his level best to fit in to his adopted country by being as useless and one-eyed as possible. But as I said...let's not mention that...

Yes, the recession hit Wales and the areas where the regions play/represent harder than it would have hit the likes of Leinster, with the financial clout, links to big business, and public schools in Dublin. Or Edinburgh. Not really sure that's particularly contentious unless you have no idea about what life's like in Wales, but there we go. As for the tickets: what's more expensive - two season tickets to a League One Swansea City and galactio-era Ospreys, or choosing either Premier League Swansea City or swirling-the-plughole Ospreys? Not going to answer another scenario like that - as I said, you're being disengenous and trying to 'disprove' me for personal/parochial reasons.

Hint: try listening.

marty2086 wrote:

miaow wrote:
So yes, they're never going to get 10m people watching on TV, but they're going to do their level best to try and eek out a few more hundred, perhaps thousand, watchers if they can - even if that means tearing up one of the last remaining vestiges of traditional community rugby in the pro regional game.

What does an extra thousand or two watching on BBC do for the Pro14?

On terrestrial TV, you can probably make it tens of thousands. And it keeps people interested in the sport, more likely to attend in person if they feel a connection that is already tenuous with regionalism and/or they live outside the 4 cities, it keeps kids interested in the sport and offers them an easy way in. All sorts of things that benefit RUGBY - which is more important than a league, and certainly more important that a broadcaster. But then that's why it's a cash grab...selling your soul for a bit more money. Just ask cricket how that's working out!

carpet baboon wrote:Any death of rugby in Wales is down to the Welsh.
But LD would never admit that, no it's easier to blame the TV, eir sport, the Irish.
What are the Welsh clubs doing to promote rugby? The WRU?
Look at the social media of Ulster, Bristol Bears, London Irish, Glasgow they are out to in the communities helping out, raising the profile.
Even Saracens, who I'm not always very impressed by, are opening a school ( well last year they were has that changed?) Getting involved in the wider communities, helping with social issues, selling rugby as a way to help everyone not just rugby fans.

Now maybe the Welsh are and it isn't working.
But I can tell you now if you invest in your community you will gain a hell of a lot more than you will by having the rugby on free to air.

This just tells me you have absolutely no idea whatsoever what it's like in Wales. Socially, culturally, economically. To even mention Saracens in the same breath is ridiculous. The regions do great outreach work. At least, the Scarlets do. The issues with Welsh rugby are Welsh-based but you come across as unbelievably ignorant of some simple realities as to why the game is dying here.

miaow wrote:

What do you mean the league as a whole? As a concept, yes. It's deeply flawed. Don't get me wrong, I, personally, enjoy what's happened with regular trips to Ireland and Scotland. Adding the Italian teams wasn't a bad idea, particularly when Treviso were looking good around 2013, but that hasn't really worked too well. The South African teams joining just feels like a mess, and in terms of cash grab, with rumours of two of the Super Rugby teams joining in 20/21, it'll be an even bigger mess as you cannot have home and away games in a league with 15 opponents without seriously endangering players (it's already gone too far, tbh).

You obviously haven't watched any of Treviso this season, the SA teams joining was mess because of how it had to come about

miaow wrote:The broadcast itself is the same whether you're watching in Wales, NI, or ROI, right? It's the same people presenting, editing, producing the actual show - so hopefully that answers the 'front of house' bias. As for actually selling the broadcasting rights off to a minor subscription service, bar the odd game, as I said, the Irish provinces want to move in to new markets like America. They see what PRL and England are doing, with the investment going in there, and it's clear they don't want to be left behind. Hence based on the Irish needs more than any other. And let's not mention the refereeing which...it feels like a bad joke but somehow persists in being awful. Not least Andrew Brace, the Welshman-turned-Irishman who does his level best to fit in to his adopted country by being as useless and one-eyed as possible. But as I said...let's not mention that...

This makes no sense at all, you obviously don't watch the games as the presenting teams differ depending on where the game is played. There are Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish hosting teams. PremierSports doesn't air in RoI, eirSports present the games there presented by Tommy Bowe...this is all basic stuff maybe you should try listening yourself or just doing some basic research rather than making stuff up as you go along

Can you show any evidence of the Irish pushing for a move into the American market? Also not sure what PremierSports have to do with any of that

miaow wrote:Yes, the recession hit Wales and the areas where the regions play/represent harder than it would have hit the likes of Leinster, with the financial clout, links to big business, and public schools in Dublin. Or Edinburgh. Not really sure that's particularly contentious unless you have no idea about what life's like in Wales, but there we go. As for the tickets: what's more expensive - two season tickets to a League One Swansea City and galactio-era Ospreys, or choosing either Premier League Swansea City or swirling-the-plughole Ospreys? Not going to answer another scenario like that - as I said, you're being disengenous and trying to 'disprove' me for personal/parochial reasons.

Hint: try listening.

You didn't answer anything, instead you asked questions and it was still Swansea who were more expensive. You said the recession was to blame yet it had no impact on Swanseas ticket sales but it did on Ospreys, why isn't it just the case that fans are fickle and follow success, why do you go looking for other reasons especially when you can show nothing to substantiate? Especially when I referred to Ulster but you counter with Leinster?

miaow wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

miaow wrote:
So yes, they're never going to get 10m people watching on TV, but they're going to do their level best to try and eek out a few more hundred, perhaps thousand, watchers if they can - even if that means tearing up one of the last remaining vestiges of traditional community rugby in the pro regional game.

What does an extra thousand or two watching on BBC do for the Pro14?

On terrestrial TV, you can probably make it tens of thousands. And it keeps people interested in the sport, more likely to attend in person if they feel a connection that is already tenuous with regionalism and/or they live outside the 4 cities, it keeps kids interested in the sport and offers them an easy way in. All sorts of things that benefit RUGBY - which is more important than a league, and certainly more important that a broadcaster. But then that's why it's a cash grab...selling your soul for a bit more money. Just ask cricket how that's working out!

If that's the case then why were fans disappearing when it was on terrestrial tv? Why is it that's still on terrestrial tv to a similar level in Wales as it was before yet apparently PremierSports is killing it?

How exactly does clubs struggling to pay bills and threatening to go bust benefit rugby exactly? Or is all that interest and goodwill going to pay the bills?