The mighty Glasgow Warriors vs Ulster boo-boys, Friday 17th May

First topic message reminder :

But they were chanting Boo-urns!

While the game is still two weeks away, there’s a nice rivalry between these two sides (partially because our supposed rival Edinburgh are complete pish. It’s like arguing there’s a rivalry between Leeds United and Guiseley) so a good opportunity to get in some light-hearted abuse discussion.

Fine print: in the unlikely event that Glasgow don’t sweep Ulster aside and fail to go onto their coronation as two time champions in that dump in the East end, I do hope you pump Leinster or Munster in the final.

No problem though, Glasgow by 27 again for the second time in a month. Niko to do his best Tom Daley impression again and bravely win the penalty that leads to the first try.

Why: Pro14 Semi-final 1
Where: Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow
When: Friday 17th May, 19:35 KO

tigertattie wrote:

Hazel Sapling wrote:

BigGee wrote:

tigertattie wrote:

BigGee wrote:I think the Edinburgh boys were away on holiday even before the last time they played the mighty warriors!

No disrespect, but we were looking for a serious hit out!

Touché

another game against the property rugby team of Scotland would set you up nicely. It's also currently 2 -1 to Edinburgh for the season. Wouldn’t you like a chance to even things up? Or are you too frightened it would go 3 - 1 to Edinburgh and dent your confidence going into the semi?

Would the property team of Scottish rugby bet their mortgages on it?

typo. But yet true. Edinburgh Rugby live in a stadium owned by the SRU and we're moving into our own little SRU owned stadium one day.

Glasgow just rent thier home. Well I say rent, you're probably on housing benefit which covers things

So the Luvvies are the SRU's kept women? The Morningside Harem it is then.

DTHVDM has come back from his shoulder injury a month ahead of schedule and will be fit for the semi, to add to our riches in the back three. It is going to be quite a selection battle there and a good player is going to miss out. Lee Jones is also fit, but I think he will struggle to get picked.

Gibbins is also fit as well and will be in the mix.

Keeble and the Nuke are not quite there yet, the coaches are hopeful that they will be by next friday.

Looks like the squad is coming together well at just the right time of the season.

Would you want so many players coming back in at this late stage? Would it not be better to stick with the established dynamics of the team?

Yes you want to add your first choice players, but if you make too many changes at once it can really knock the flow of the team.

To be fair there's 3 weeks between games to the flow has probably been knocked anyway.

Gibbins or Fusaro - not really a contest is it!

RDW wrote:To be fair there's 3 weeks between games to the flow has probably been knocked anyway.

Gibbins or Fusaro - not really a contest is it!

Fusaro is injured and not in the mix in any case.

The new boy Gordon really put his hand up in the last game though, but you would imagine that he will go for the experience of Gibbins for these knock out games.

Agree, Gibbins to start with the mullet from Rotoroa to come off the bench and cause mayhem.

So Gibbins to start

DTH maybe not?

Keeble and Nuke the follwoing week? Maybe jsut Keeble?

It looks like we'll have everyone fit barring the long term injured; Tim Swinson, Matt Smith and Chris Fusaro spring to mind. However, I wouldn't be rushing Kebble or the Nuke back in. Bhatti and Ragnar have been doing a great job. Also Rae and Allan have been consistently good, although perhaps as FES frothed "good club players and no more".

Back row training sessions should be extra feisty next week; Batman, Cully, Arthur Ashe, Ragnar's brother, the Mullet and BBB all having a case for selection. Flockhart, Gordon and the Quiet American might feel they have something to add.

I think some of the 23 is pretty much set in stone (fitness permitting);

Bhatti-Brown-Ragnar (Kebble-Turner-Rae)

Jonny-Cummings (BBB will be third man, either 6 moving in later in the match or benching)

Batman-Ashe-Cully or Ashe-Fagerson-Mullet, OR BBB-Quiet American-Mullet (if we start BBB we can have two back rows on the bench and really step up the pace in the last 25 minutes)

Aldi Price (Wee George)

Haircut (Furra Linee)

Sam Sam The Stepping Man- Not A Pony

Tennessee-Farewell To Scotstoun-Seaman (Niko, just to bring some madness in the last 20. And that's just among the travelling supporters.)

Fecc I forgot DTH

As you were everyone. As you were.

Well, 4 days to go until the big match this Friday night. It seems to have been a long time coming around but we can start to focus in on it now.

So time for my stab at the Warriors team:

1. Bhatti - Played very well in big Ollie's absence and gives away less pens
2. Brown - an easy one
3. Fagerson Z - again no great dilemmas here
4. Gray J - back to his best and no longer 'going at both ends mate'
5. Cummings - this is a tricky one, could easily be Harley
6. Wilson
7. Gibbins - fit and ready to go
8. Fagerson M - getting better and playing for a WC place!
9. Price
10. Hastings
11. Seymour - the only easy wing choice!
12. Johnson
13. Steyn - just impossible to leave out the way he has been playing
14. Nico - DTH is fit, but is he match fit? Nico been playing very well
15. Hoggy

Subs:

Keeble - I like the idea of a 20 min cameo by big Ollie against a tiring scrum
Stewart - I go with him, but do wonder if they might bring Turner back in
Nuke - 20 mins at full pace will do fine
Harley - could easily be Cummings
Gordon - I think has earned another crack after his MoM last time out
Horne G
Horne P
Jones H - He has to be in there somewhere and Steyn can cover wing


I think the pack largely picks itself, the only real questions are about who partners Gray in the second row and if Nuke and Keeble are fit enough and what sort of a part they might play assuming they are.

In the backs it is about whether we bring Huw Jones in anywhere at all and which of Nico or DTH gets left out. Those are both really tough calls.

However it pans out though, we get a very decent team out on the night and a good bench to back them up. It could be just about the strongest team we have managed to put on the field all season.

Not wanting to stir a hornets nest but....... Is Jonny Gray Scotlands equivalent to Chris Robshaw? Main strength seems to be a massive workrate with no obvious weaknesses, yet no single attributes (other than workrate) that is actually top notch. The not-so-young-as-he-was Scot is lauded for this tackle rate and completions, yet he very rarely dominates in the tackle. Looks good on the stats but perhaps does not help his team as much as a guy who misses the odd one, but also puts in some massive hots that drive the opponents backwards.

I really rate the guy, but looking at what he does I can understand (may not agree) why Gatland ignored him in 2017.

No hornets needed LT - we've all been saying the same thing about him for the last few years!

There's nothing wrong with a lock with huge work rate - he'll go onto be a great player for Scotland if he keeps that up - but we all think he has the ability to take that to the next level. He's just not showing it so far.

He is only 25 - he's got plenty time!

Jonny Gray is very much in the AWJ category of being there all the time and putting in a shift but doesn’t have the explosive highlights reel.

Lawes can put his big hits highlight reel on youtube
Bakkies Botha could put his enforcer highlights reel on youtube
Brodie Retallick can put his ball carrying highlights reel on youtube
Itoje can put his clapping enthusiastically highlights reel on youtube

Jonny just works away. He doesn’t miss tackles so he's stopping the opponent from getting any gain, but he doesn’t drive them backwards like some players do. This big collision driving them back tackles are the ones that the TV guys pick out for highlights. Is Jonny Gray less of a defender as he doesn’t smash his opponent? Its arguable. I'd say Jonny's strength is that he tackles then gets up and is ready to make the next one. Would you rather he made 20 tackles and missed zero or that he made 10, 3 of which were bonecrunchers, but he also missed a couple (which happens when you look for the big smash sometimes)

The one area I'd love to see him working on though would be his ball carrying.

PS, I also rate Robshaw as a very good player.

LT, as Flounder says, no hornets there.

May I suggest that part of our "problem" with Ickle Jonny is that we tend to judge players on the basis of what they can't do, or what they aren't, rather than what they can, or are.

Looking at Jonny and Ritchie Gray standing side by side one doesn't need to be Sigmund Freud to spot that one is a fairly classic extrovert and the other an introvert. No Tiger Tattie I will not be providing hints; work it out. This difference in their personalities is amplified on a rugby pitch; Ritchie arrived on the scene and stunned us all by covering more ground than most open side flankers, Jonny gets all the attention by being self-effacing and working harder than anyone one the pitch. These two brothers are extremely competitive human beings: I'm willing to bet that at a young age both adopted these diametrically opposed positions in order not to have to compete (and suffer the pain of losing) for attention and affection at home.

We all got angry when Gats took AWJ over Jonny but I think the Fat Controller was quite cute when he presented that as the choice, AWJ is more of a Ritchie Gray lead from the front extrovert type personality. Jonny would probably have complemented AWJ perfectly in the same way he complements his brother at international level, and Smiling Scott Cummings at Glasgow.

Jonny's biggest problem so far is that he is so good at what he does that everyone expects him to be that good at everything else. But players like that are few and far between....and tend to be called John Eales.

When the Ruck Inspector retired ( on health  grounds; he was suffering chronic back pain from all that bending and pointing) Jonny succeeded him by universal acclaim: he was the outstanding player so he must be captain. No,  you can be an average player and a great captain: Will Carling and Big Al spring readily to mind. Being an outstanding captain is about personality rather than on field ability. The club relieved Jonny of the captaincy because it was adversely affecting his game.

In a sense Jonny's career has mirrored that conundrum: he is so good we expect him to be leading Scotland to glory every time.
DR and Humphries seem to have been astute in asking Jonny to fine tune aspects of his game so now he is doing more carries in open field rather than trucking up the first ball to set up the ruck. Also, when he is first defender from the ruck he makes a lot of close quarter tackles from a standing start so tends not to make the momentum shifting big hits, but again he is making his presence felt more often away from the tight areas this season. Gradually, Dr is pushing him into the limelight. I'm not sure he'll ever be a John Eales / AWJ type of second row (certainly not while Ritchie is playing...I think they would not want to compete for the same role) but he is working towards being the best Jonny Gray that Scotland could have.

Are you accusing Ritchie of being an extrovert because he gallops around the open field with a bleached blonde mop?

tigertattie wrote: because he gallops around the open field with a bleached blonde mop?

Careful now, That was Bru's average Saturday night before the Hagia Sophia took pity on him.

jimbopip wrote:

tigertattie wrote:   because he gallops around the open field with a bleached blonde mop?

Careful now, That was Bru's average Saturday night before the Hagia Sophia took pity on him.

Nah, Bru used to cut about with a mop with bleach on it, this was during his kill 99.9% of all bacteria phase!

The neutral officials for Friday night are...all Irish.

They include Cagney and Clownshoes

I see from the pictures of the press day at Glasgow today that DTH was being wheeled out in front of the cameras along with Hoggy and Fraser Brown.

Does that mean that DTH is going to be starting or on the bench for this game. It would be a big call bearing in mind he has not played for three months but we do know that he has the pedigree.

Does that knock Nico out of the starting team or Shuggy off the bench?

Who would be a selector?

jimbopip wrote:The neutral officials for Friday night are...all Irish.

They include Cagney and Clownshoes

To be fair clownshoes will be fecking awful for both sides

And statistically speaking Irish times lose more than they win when reffed by an Irish official.

So really it's your game to throw at this point

BigGee wrote:I see from the pictures of the press day at Glasgow today that DTH was being wheeled out in front of the cameras along with Hoggy and Fraser Brown.

Does that mean that DTH is going to be starting or on the bench for this game. It would be a big call bearing in mind he has not played for three months but we do know that he has the pedigree.

Does that knock Nico out of the starting team or Shuggy off the bench?

Who would be a selector?

The last time Ulster came for a semi final DTH returned early from what was considered a season ending injury to come off the bench and score in the 77th minute.

The voices in my head are saying;

Aldi 9, haircut 10, Steppin Sam the hand-off man paired with Not A Pony, Tennessee and Seaman on the wings, Last Night At Scotstoun full back. Wee George, Furra Linee and MadMad Mata waiting to really rip it up at 60 minutes.

Referee: John Lacey (IRFU, 80th competition game)
AR1: Andrew Brace (IRFU), AR2: George Clancy (IRFU)
TMO: Olly Hodges (IRFU).

Awesome.

Not ideal as it feeds the conspiracy theorists amongst us. Not ideal because Pro14 made it clear their goal of neutral refs in all games. I would have thought neutral refs would have been available for a knockout game.
Irish officials won't go easy on Ulster. Wait until after the game before making judgement.

carpet baboon wrote:

jimbopip wrote:The neutral officials for Friday night are...all Irish.

They include Cagney and Clownshoes

To be fair clownshoes will be fecking awful for both sides

Just massively relieved Clancy isn't in the middle.

Odd that there was no Welsh refs available for this one, it would certainly have looked better.

You would assume that they will be doing the Scarlets- Ospreys playoff for the last euro spot but they could have been swapped easily enough with the ones doing this game.

Pretty much my thinking, BigGee. Seems odd to me, but the officials will treat each side equally or possibly tougher on Ulster.
I would like PRO14 to explain it though.

Lagon wrote:Pretty much my thinking, BigGee. Seems odd to me, but the officials will treat each side equally or possibly tougher on Ulster.
I would like PRO14 to explain it though.

In all seriousness, Lacey used to be an Olympic diver, so it makes sense that they want him to officiate Glasgow.

I shouldn't laugh. That defeat still hurts

Lagon wrote:
I shouldn't laugh. That defeat still hurts

https://www.facebook.com/RugbyWarfare/videos/1064719903568123/

Well if we are going by the (now largely discredited) method of seeing who might play for Glasgow by the photos they release during the week, then Huw Jones was prominent in them again in the ones they released today!

I guess we find out on Thursday lunchtime!

We can use the bibs/non bibs theory too - he was photographed without a bib. No idea if that means he's playing or not though! Pete and George Horne were also seen without a bib....

RDW wrote:We can use the bibs/non bibs theory too - he was photographed without a bib. No idea if that means he's playing or not though! Pete and George Horne were also seen without a bib....

Well I doubt if all three of them won't be playing!

I just think it's tragic that Glasgow players still need to wear bibs!

I've heard that Ryan Wilson is still on Rusks!

Which one of you Glasgow people has hacked the Ulster website?? Eh???   Fess Up!!!
https://www.ulsterrugby.com/2019/05/glasgow-warriors-three-key-strengths/

Pete, that article has been cut and pasted straight from the pro 14 Final website. Not a bad article, but if anything it slightly understates how awesome Glasgow are.

I fully expect a close game, but Glasgow seem to have cut out all the "running around as if your hair's on fire" nonsense that undid us far too often last season. The excellent Squidge Rugby did a feature on Scotland's weaknesses and came to the conclusion that when they were behind they lacked the confidence in themselves to be patient, go through the phases and wait for the openings to appear. Instead they tried to make something out of nothing, went for the miracle play and usually got turned over. This analysis was echoed by DR's recent comments on Haircut being "potentially a better 10 than Finn Russell" mainly due to the fact that Haircut has learned to be patient and keep the pressure on opponents until they crack rather than get frustrated and lose possession.

Another massive improvement this season has been in defence. Jonny Gray's tackle statistics have always been among the best but recently we have run out of superlatives to describe his performances. The defence against Ladyboys was exceptional, with every member of the side putting in a big shift. I can't see us shipping too many points on Friday to be honest.

Finally, we could have; George Horne, Huw Jones and Niko Matawalu on the bench. If they come on against a tiring defence, or a team who are chasing the game and playing a more open, less structured game than usual, they could run riot.

As I say the article didn't really flatter us.

Pete330v2 wrote:Which one of you Glasgow people has hacked the Ulster website?? Eh???   Fess Up!!!
https://www.ulsterrugby.com/2019/05/glasgow-warriors-three-key-strengths/

"The Warriors don’t just execute with authority when they construct attacking opportunities"

That’s a fancy way of saying "good at scoring tries" so it could be jimbo and his thesaurus that has hacked you, but then there would be a level of technical expertise required so that’s him out the picture!

There are pictures?

Are you in them Tattie? Is it a wide angled lens then?

Are any of you Luvvies venturing through to the Dear Green Place for the final?

Dear Green Place is not a reference to the ticket prices at Parkhead.

This was posted on the Ulster thread;

My guess at the team, from what I have been told

Stockdale, Balacoune, Marshall, McCloskey, Ludik, Burns, Coney

O'Sullivan, Best, Kane, Henderson. Treadwell, Timoney, Coetzee. Murphy

Bench: Warwick, Herring O'Toole, O'Connor, Reidy, Shanahan, Lowry, Lyttle

My, subjective , response;

Stockdale -Balacoune-Ludik are a pretty big back three. I would imagine that a back three of Hogg-Seymour-Steyn (DTH benching) would be the best to counter it. Advantage Glasgow

Timoney-Coetzee-Murphy  Should be facing BBB-Ragnar's brother- Cully. Advantage Glasgow

Team's oot

Bhatti-Brown-Ragnar

Cummings-Ickle Jonny

BBB-Ragnar's Brother-Cully

Aldi-Haircut

Seymour-Sam Sam The Hand off Man-Seaman-DTH DTH DTH

Hoggy

Subs; Student, Ollie, D'arcy, Batman, Mullett, Wee George, Furra Linee, Not A Pony.

A very good 23.

Mon the Warriors.

Student? That's a new one!

For those who struggle with the nicknames:

Glasgow Warriors: 
Stuart Hogg; Tommy Seymour, Kyle Steyn, Sam Johnson, DTH van der Merwe; Adam Hastings, Ali Price; Jamie Bhatti, Fraser Brown, Zander Fagerson, Scott Cummings, Jonny Gray, Rob Harley, Callum Gibbins (capt), Matt Fagerson
Replacements: Grant Stewart, Oli Kebble, D’Arcy Rae, Ryan Wilson, Tom Gordon, George Horne, Peter Horne, Huw Jones

Ulster: 
Jacob Stockdale; Robert Baloucoune, Luke Marshall, Stuart McCloskey, Louis Loudik; Billy Burns, John Cooney; Eric O’Sullivan, Rory Best (capt), Ross Kane, Ian Henderson, Kieran Treadwell, Nick Timoney, Jordi Murphy, Marcel Coetzee
Replacements: Rob Herring, Andrew Warwick, Tom O’Toole, Alan O’Connor, Sean Reidy, David Shanahan, Michael Lowry, Darren Cave


PS: Took this from the official Pro14 announcement. Is it really Loudik?

RDW wrote:Student? That's a new one!

Flounder, GC came up with it. Stewart Grant is very young so...Student Grant.

As I said at the time it's very funny if you are old enough to remember the days when as a society we believed in investing in the future by providing student grants.

PS: Took this from the official Pro14 announcement. Is it really Loudik?[/quote]

Yeah he's back from injury with added volume

LondonTiger wrote:For those who struggle with the nicknames:

Glasgow Warriors: 
Stuart Hogg; Tommy Seymour, Kyle Steyn, Sam Johnson, DTH van der Merwe; Adam Hastings, Ali Price; Jamie Bhatti, Fraser Brown, Zander Fagerson, Scott Cummings, Jonny Gray, Rob Harley, Callum Gibbins (capt), Matt Fagerson
Replacements: Grant Stewart, Oli Kebble, D’Arcy Rae, Ryan Wilson, Tom Gordon, George Horne, Peter Horne, Huw Jones

Ulster: 
Jacob Stockdale; Robert Baloucoune, Luke Marshall, Stuart McCloskey, Louis Loudik; Billy Burns, John Cooney; Eric O’Sullivan, Rory Best (capt), Ross Kane, Ian Henderson, Kieran Treadwell, Nick Timoney, Jordi Murphy, Marcel Coetzee
Replacements: Rob Herring, Andrew Warwick, Tom O’Toole, Alan O’Connor, Sean Reidy, David Shanahan, Michael Lowry, Darren Cave


PS: Took this from the official Pro14 announcement. Is it really Loudik?

Two very evenly matched teams. I would say that in Coetzee, Henderson and Best the Ulster team has players with really big game experience that perhaps the Warriors are lacking. Still, home advantage is huge - Glasgow to sneak it in a closely fought encounter.

EST wrote:

Two very evenly matched teams. I would say that in Coetzee, Henderson and Best the Ulster team has players with really big game experience that perhaps the Warriors are lacking. Still, home advantage is huge - Glasgow to sneak it in a closely fought encounter.

Glasgow lack big game experience?

8 players with (winning) Pro12 final experience
17 full internationals
2 British and Irish Lions

Both teams look about as strong as they can manage with current injuries.

Should be a very good game

There’s a championship winning team in this Ulster squad but maybe not quite yet. Glasgow are a year or two ahead of them I think.

This is all in Glasgow’s hands, if they play well they’ll win - if not then it will be a lot closer.

Ulster fans, why is Ludik on the wing and Stockdale at FB? Don't they normally play the other way around?

Do they see Stockdale as a FB going forward? He may get more ball there sand be more effective