The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
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geoff999rugby
RDW
rodders
Sin é
Standulstermen
Cyril
bluestonevedder
formerly known as Sam
Margin_Walker
LeinsterFan4life
TightHEAD
Brendan
SirBurger
Heaf
clivemcl
Pete330v2
yappysnap
Rinsure
LondonTiger
No 7&1/2
SecretFly
Collapse2005
Gooseberry
Irish Londoner
The Great Aukster
marty2086
Kingshu
the-goon
32 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: Club Rugby
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The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
First topic message reminder :
There will always be good reason to discuss the influence and the effects of corporate money input sport.
There will always be good reason to discuss the influence and the effects of corporate money input sport.
the-goon- Posts : 890
Join date : 2011-05-31
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Heaf wrote:Rinsure wrote:So I think Deageo are the second sponsor to review their position / pull out regarding Jackson's signing. I read that Cash Convertors have also pulled sponsorship.
I'm not sure what value that has to the club, but if it proves to be the start of a chain reaction, then it could prove a problem for Irish.
He's an objectionable person, but he was found innocent. There were similar issues about that footballer who served his sentence, and was re-signed (Karl something, Sheff Utd?? Might be mis-remembering). Rightly or wrongly, there is nothing to stop him playing for whomever he likes.
Apparently Cash Converters and LI ended the arrangement BEFORE any signings were announced, so they look like they are making a cynical attempt to 'cash-in' on the story - bit like their business model really, taking advantage of others' misfortune ...
Diageos timing is interesting alright.
Collapse2005- Posts : 7155
Join date : 2017-08-24
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
"He's an objectionable person"
You know him personally I take it?
You know him personally I take it?
Pete330v2- Posts : 4554
Join date : 2012-05-04
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
How have we reached the point where a faction of society are not willing to give a man a second chance for something he didn't even do (in respect of the abusive messages sent)? The only logical conclusion is that these people are not really protesting the content of the messages (as pointed out, Gilroy got off scot-free), but instead are protesting the outcome of the trial. I find this truly horrifying.
SirBurger- Posts : 1261
Join date : 2011-11-24
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
SirBurger wrote:How have we reached the point where a faction of society are not willing to give a man a second chance for something he didn't even do (in respect of the abusive messages sent)? The only logical conclusion is that these people are not really protesting the content of the messages (as pointed out, Gilroy got off scot-free), but instead are protesting the outcome of the trial. I find this truly horrifying.
Agreed, its shocking, I would understand if there were lots of details of the trail that simply don't add up and it seemed obvious that someone got away with a crime. However, that really doesn't seem to be the case at all here based on all details in the media.
Collapse2005- Posts : 7155
Join date : 2017-08-24
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
I wonder how many of the people protesting have gone to France when he was there. Olding getting a player of the division award in Pro D2. I guess the protesters only think their view matters in an English speaking world, or more likely only the English speaking world is driven by social media and the judge Dread justice.
Brendan- Posts : 4253
Join date : 2012-04-08
Location : Cork
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
These things were easier to keep quiet in the good old days.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31361
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Was there ever a definitive answer on whether Irish will be able to play all their foreign stars?
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31361
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Pete330v2 wrote:"He's an objectionable person"
You know him personally I take it?
No, and it's a valid point. My attitude to him is based on the facts around the case, which while not enough to convict him, were enough to convince me - not in a court of law - that he is not someone I would want to associate with. Hence my objection to him. I appreciate my moral compass is not the be-all-and-end-all, but that is my opinion based on the facts I know.
I don't think I'm in the minority, either.
That said, I'm going to stick to rugby now!
Rinsure- Posts : 482
Join date : 2011-03-04
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
What a society we live in whereby trial by media and hearsay is taken more seriously than a court of law finding someone not guilty when presented with the facts.
I don't know him, maybe he is a little **** but surely he gets another chance?
I don't know him, maybe he is a little **** but surely he gets another chance?
TightHEAD- Posts : 6192
Join date : 2014-09-25
Age : 62
Location : Brexit Island.
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Aside from a colourful message in a private chat and an unsubstantiated accusation there isn't a lot to suggest he is a terrible person. No worse than a large section of players in my view anyway.
I would nearly say the recent antics of the two former Leinster players are worse.
I would nearly say the recent antics of the two former Leinster players are worse.
Collapse2005- Posts : 7155
Join date : 2017-08-24
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Out of interest is there a majority of support for Jackson et all in Ireland?
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31361
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
No 7&1/2 wrote:Out of interest is there a majority of support for Jackson et all in Ireland?
Hard to tell. As with most western countries there is a large cohort of unemployed gender studies students who have nothing better to do with their time than to protest over matters they don't really understand nor in many cases do they want to understand they simply want to believe that there is something noble to protest about as is their want having just completed a degree in a subject that qualifies them for little else.
They tend to make the most noise while privately I'm sure a significant portion of the population think he should be left alone to get on with his life.
Collapse2005- Posts : 7155
Join date : 2017-08-24
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Of you think there aren't plenty of 'objectionable' people across all pro sporting teams, you live in a fantasy land.
The unfortunate thing here is that an accusation alone is enough to get you taken to court and all your private messages read out to the public. And then in the end, after your private chat has been uncovered to the world (ruining your career), and it was determined there was no evidence of your guilt, you won't get so much as an apology for the invasion of privacy.
And despite the ruining of somebodies career and invasion of privacy without evidence there is also nobody holding to account those in the world who still quite publicly claim him to be 'guilty'.
For me, the system should either not be allowed to name those charged or at least not make public the trial details until the jury decision is made. If guilty, all details released, if not guilty, media band remains.
But of course, in 2019 we apparently still can't trust juries and judges not to be biased towards the male, and that's why it's all public so every top dick and harry can make their own judgements and cherry pick which ever parts of the trial they want to support their view.
It's just not right.
I don't like what he was involved in, nor do I like his messages or language, but I don't believe it was right for the public to hear it all based on so little.
There are many like Jackson and much worse in whatever sports team you follow. I guarantee it.
The unfortunate thing here is that an accusation alone is enough to get you taken to court and all your private messages read out to the public. And then in the end, after your private chat has been uncovered to the world (ruining your career), and it was determined there was no evidence of your guilt, you won't get so much as an apology for the invasion of privacy.
And despite the ruining of somebodies career and invasion of privacy without evidence there is also nobody holding to account those in the world who still quite publicly claim him to be 'guilty'.
For me, the system should either not be allowed to name those charged or at least not make public the trial details until the jury decision is made. If guilty, all details released, if not guilty, media band remains.
But of course, in 2019 we apparently still can't trust juries and judges not to be biased towards the male, and that's why it's all public so every top dick and harry can make their own judgements and cherry pick which ever parts of the trial they want to support their view.
It's just not right.
I don't like what he was involved in, nor do I like his messages or language, but I don't believe it was right for the public to hear it all based on so little.
There are many like Jackson and much worse in whatever sports team you follow. I guarantee it.
clivemcl- Posts : 4674
Join date : 2011-05-09
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Ah. The silent majority etc vs the educated!
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31361
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Back to the rugby are Irish in danger of not having enough EQ players to get the RFU payment or did they just not have alot of foreigners to begin with. Most of the players signed seem to be starters who will be available for all their games (no boosting with academy players during the internationals)
Brendan- Posts : 4253
Join date : 2012-04-08
Location : Cork
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
No 7&1/2 wrote:Ah. The silent majority etc vs the educated!
You set a low bar if you consider a gender studies student as educated in this context. How about a judge?
Collapse2005- Posts : 7155
Join date : 2017-08-24
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Brendan wrote:Back to the rugby are Irish in danger of not having enough EQ players to get the RFU payment or did they just not have alot of foreigners to begin with. Most of the players signed seem to be starters who will be available for all their games (no boosting with academy players during the internationals)
EQ payments are not significant. I think it is based over all three competitions though, so imagine we will be under for Premiership games, but then try and use the cup matches to up the average. If we miss out on the payments but stay in the league it will probably be a price worth paying.
SirBurger- Posts : 1261
Join date : 2011-11-24
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Just a joke collapse. Theres plenty of highly educated people who would want people to accept rulings and welcome people back to continue their lives as if nothing happened.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31361
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
What's your anticipated match day squad then burger.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31361
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Who is complaining about Jackson going to LI - have they received bundles of letters from disgruntled fans?
Has the fire on social media been lit and fanned by Diageo?
Have LI invoked a bigger sponsorship clause conditional on promotion?
Could Cash Converters and Diageo both have been looking for a way out of their contracts?
Given the context it is ironic that it all comes down to how much bang you get for your buck.
Has the fire on social media been lit and fanned by Diageo?
Have LI invoked a bigger sponsorship clause conditional on promotion?
Could Cash Converters and Diageo both have been looking for a way out of their contracts?
Given the context it is ironic that it all comes down to how much bang you get for your buck.
The Great Aukster- Posts : 5246
Join date : 2011-06-09
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
I'm sorry, but do people actually believe these companies have some sort of moral code that they follow? This is nothing more than great advertising for these companies.I had never heard of cash converters before but from looking on LI fans forum they are delighted they are gone which just shows what kind of a company they are.
Also Connacht have serious egg on their face now that they refused to let Sevu Reece to the club. Nobody is talking about his past (which is far worse than both Olding and Jackson) and he's now being lined up by the ABs.
Also Connacht have serious egg on their face now that they refused to let Sevu Reece to the club. Nobody is talking about his past (which is far worse than both Olding and Jackson) and he's now being lined up by the ABs.
LeinsterFan4life- Posts : 6160
Join date : 2012-03-13
Age : 34
Location : Meath
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
LI state they separated from Cash Converters before PJ was signed so if that's true it appears they may be being deliberately misleading about the circumstances in an attempt to take the moral high ground to divert attention from their morally questionable business/interest rates ... personally I'm glad to see the back of them.
Heaf- Posts : 7000
Join date : 2011-07-30
Location : Another planet
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
No 7&1/2 wrote:What's your anticipated match day squad then burger.
Think I did this a few pages ago, but best 23 on paper (not my preferred 23) is probably:
1. Dell
2. Matu'u
3. Kepu
4. Coleman
5. Botha
6. Ioane
7. O'Brien (big if)
8. Rogerson
9. Phipps
10. Jackson
11. Loader
12. Hepetema
13. Rona
14. Naholo
15. Veitokani
Bench: Porecki, Hobbs-Awoyemi, Hoskins, Van der Merwe, Tuisue, Meehan, Myler, Parton/Stephenson
SirBurger- Posts : 1261
Join date : 2011-11-24
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
So can they field that with the 2 foreigner rule? Or is it going to be heavy rotation.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31361
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
As far as I am aware, all of them are Kolpak covered due to various passport arrangements.
SirBurger- Posts : 1261
Join date : 2011-11-24
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
How many academy players there? Genuinely curious, will fans be happy to see their club lose its identity and become a barbarians side if it means they do well, or would fans prefer more academy players and EQ players but potential worse results?
yappysnap- Posts : 11993
Join date : 2011-06-01
Age : 36
Location : Christchurch, NZ
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
There will actually be more academy graduates in the senior squad next year than we've had in s long time. Flown under the radar a bit but 7 have been promoted from the academy for next season (Loader, Parton, Brand, Williams, Atkins, Curtis-Harris, Cooke). Would expect a few of those to break through and receive a decent amount of GP gametime next season, before making their debuts for Bath in 2020.
We lose our best English players every summer. Even this summer we lost McNally who will leave a big hole in the squad. I'm willing to take a punt on a few big name foreigners to attempt to break that cycle.
We lose our best English players every summer. Even this summer we lost McNally who will leave a big hole in the squad. I'm willing to take a punt on a few big name foreigners to attempt to break that cycle.
Margin_Walker- Posts : 789
Join date : 2013-06-05
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Fair enough couldn't find anywhere which said New Zealand and Australia were kolpac.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31361
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
NZ and Aus aren't kolpak, but the players in question would have family ties to countries that are (enough to get a passport). Coleman (Tonga), Naholo (Fiji) etc. Having international caps for another country doesn't impact this.
For example even Ben Franks wasn't classed as a foreigner when he was with us as he had an English mother.
Not sure if Phipps has an English grannie knocking around. He's the only one I wouldn't be sure on
For example even Ben Franks wasn't classed as a foreigner when he was with us as he had an English mother.
Not sure if Phipps has an English grannie knocking around. He's the only one I wouldn't be sure on
Margin_Walker- Posts : 789
Join date : 2013-06-05
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Ah. Makes sense then.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31361
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
It's a bit like six degrees of separation - find a concept that lets everyone claim a 'playability' loophole.
...incidentally, which makes the idea that NZ and Aus are outside kolpac, yet have the British Monarch as their Head of State, a might weird in a funny way. The warped world of crazy politics continues into and through sport.
...incidentally, which makes the idea that NZ and Aus are outside kolpac, yet have the British Monarch as their Head of State, a might weird in a funny way. The warped world of crazy politics continues into and through sport.
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
yappysnap wrote:How many academy players there? Genuinely curious, will fans be happy to see their club lose its identity and become a barbarians side if it means they do well, or would fans prefer more academy players and EQ players but potential worse results?
Having supported Irish for 11 or 12 seasons, the one thing I can say is that the only period where we have had any success in retaining our top academy talent for more than one or two seasons is when we had international stars. You need success to allow these guys to break through and then keep their place in the side. If the likes of Kepu, Coleman and Naholo can keep us safe then it will be a better environment for these young lads to make their name. Personally, I don't feel like we owe England anything. I am a club fan first and international fan second. Of course, it is nice if we produce England talent, but we are the "Exiles" and I am just as happy seeing us pluck a relative unknown from the pacific islands and allow him to earn a few quid and help out his family back home.
SirBurger- Posts : 1261
Join date : 2011-11-24
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Margin_Walker wrote:NZ and Aus aren't kolpak, but the players in question would have family ties to countries that are (enough to get a passport). Coleman (Tonga), Naholo (Fiji) etc. Having international caps for another country doesn't impact this.
For example even Ben Franks wasn't classed as a foreigner when he was with us as he had an English mother.
Not sure if Phipps has an English grannie knocking around. He's the only one I wouldn't be sure on
I remember when Mauger signed for Tigers in order to get him in and not count towards the foreign rule there was some family tree work done and he had a Haitian mother/grandmother who was able to claim French citizenship through some convoluted scheme and so he was able to as well.
Tigers were also over the moon when Argentine loosehead Marcos Ayerza married his Spanish girlfriend and could claim Spanish citizenship.
I guess the legal advisors make a lot of money out of this fun and games.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21030
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 37
Location : Leicestershire
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Yep, it's all good fun. You really have to go out if your way to actually fall into the 'foreign' player classification.
Margin_Walker- Posts : 789
Join date : 2013-06-05
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Highlights again how difficult it is to bring in rules for competitions. Presumably a majority of prl clubs have agreed to this rule but theres some/all who realise they have no intention of keeping to the spirit?
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31361
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
No 7&1/2 wrote:Highlights again how difficult it is to bring in rules for competitions. Presumably a majority of prl clubs have agreed to this rule but theres some/all who realise they have no intention of keeping to the spirit?
So like the Salary Cap rules then ? :-)
Irish Londoner- Posts : 1612
Join date : 2011-07-10
Age : 62
Location : Wakefield
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Oh we is gonna keep to the spirit okay. We like the spirit of it all...and all... ; but we ain't gonna be tied to the laws of the spirit, coz it's against our human rights as carbon based units of Planet Earth.
So from next season, we're going to play 18 players per game, + 18 subs. Other teams can do what they feel suits them. If they want to stick to the rule of 15 players on the field, we'll support their right to do so
So from next season, we're going to play 18 players per game, + 18 subs. Other teams can do what they feel suits them. If they want to stick to the rule of 15 players on the field, we'll support their right to do so
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Exactly Irish.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31361
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
SecretFly wrote:Oh we is gonna keep to the spirit okay. We like the spirit of it all...and all... ; but we ain't gonna be tied to the laws of the spirit, coz it's against our human rights as carbon based units of Planet Earth.
So from next season, we're going to play 18 players per game, + 18 subs. Other teams can do what they feel suits them. If they want to stick to the rule of 15 players on the field, we'll support their right to do so
Oi, do not exclude Transhumans from this debate.
LondonTiger- Moderator
- Posts : 23485
Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
By all accounts it is Sean O'Brien who has recently been on the war path and has been in front of the IRFU committee.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/irish-star-sean-obrien-in-probe-by-irfu-amid-allegations-of-incident-in-pub-38195392.html
You can find out what the incident was pretty easily, but let's just say it won't wash away easily.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/irish-star-sean-obrien-in-probe-by-irfu-amid-allegations-of-incident-in-pub-38195392.html
You can find out what the incident was pretty easily, but let's just say it won't wash away easily.
bluestonevedder- Posts : 3952
Join date : 2011-08-22
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
It's been out awhile, bluestone..... I mean the story not the..... I ... I ..mean ...he put it away when he was finished. At least he had the decency to do that much.
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
SecretFly wrote:It's been out awhile, bluestone..... I mean the story not the..... I ... I ..mean ...he put it away when he was finished. At least he had the decency to do that much.
Bet he didn't wash his hands though!
The IRFU have done well to keep it under wraps. I imagine if this was an England player it would be everywhere.
bluestonevedder- Posts : 3952
Join date : 2011-08-22
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
bluestonevedder wrote:By all accounts it is Sean O'Brien who has recently been on the war path and has been in front of the IRFU committee.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/irish-star-sean-obrien-in-probe-by-irfu-amid-allegations-of-incident-in-pub-38195392.html
You can find out what the incident was pretty easily, but let's just say it won't wash away easily.
Can you imagine how many people would be out protesting if he had done what he did to a woman? He didn't though so it will all blow over fairly quickly.
Collapse2005- Posts : 7155
Join date : 2017-08-24
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
bluestonevedder wrote:SecretFly wrote:It's been out awhile, bluestone..... I mean the story not the..... I ... I ..mean ...he put it away when he was finished. At least he had the decency to do that much.
Bet he didn't wash his hands though!
The IRFU have done well to keep it under wraps. I imagine if this was an England player it would be everywhere.
Haha. He definitely didn't.
Collapse2005- Posts : 7155
Join date : 2017-08-24
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
bluestonevedder wrote:SecretFly wrote:It's been out awhile, bluestone..... I mean the story not the..... I ... I ..mean ...he put it away when he was finished. At least he had the decency to do that much.
Bet he didn't wash his hands though!
The IRFU have done well to keep it under wraps. I imagine if this was an England player it would be everywhere.
Can English players not aim then?
Pete330v2- Posts : 4554
Join date : 2012-05-04
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
Pete330v2 wrote:bluestonevedder wrote:SecretFly wrote:It's been out awhile, bluestone..... I mean the story not the..... I ... I ..mean ...he put it away when he was finished. At least he had the decency to do that much.
Bet he didn't wash his hands though!
The IRFU have done well to keep it under wraps. I imagine if this was an England player it would be everywhere.
Can English players not aim then?
Not at all- terrible aim. Rumour has it EJ has requested that they all sit down when they go now.
bluestonevedder- Posts : 3952
Join date : 2011-08-22
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
bluestonevedder wrote:
The IRFU have done well to keep it under wraps. I imagine if this was an England player it would be everywhere.
Yes, a good quality condom has many uses. A bit late for O'Brien but now I think they'll be mandatory kit for boy's nights out in future. Blue and yellow of course for a bit of free advertising.
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
What did he do?
Cyril- Posts : 7162
Join date : 2012-11-16
Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread
He got drunk and peed on someone in a bar.
Collapse2005- Posts : 7155
Join date : 2017-08-24
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