The Rugby World Cup - Japan 2019

First topic message reminder :

We're getting there folks. Less that 50 days to go til lthe big event.

Here's a place to talk about all things world cup as we lead into this most spectacular of events.

https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/

Full fixture list
https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/matches

Teams that are going
https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/teams

Pools:

Pool A

Ireland
Scotland
Japan (Hosts)
Russia
Samoa

Pool B

New Zealand (3x cup holders) Reigning champs
South Africa (2x cup holders)
Italy
Namibia
Canada

Pool C

England (1x cup holders)
France
Argentina
USA
Tonga

Pool D

Australia (2x cup holders)
Wales
Georgia
Fiji
Uruguay


Who do you think has the best chance?
Who will provide this competition's upset?
What pool will see the biggest fight for qualification?
Which of the non seeded teams are looking like they could do well?
Who has the current momentum going into the W/C?


I can't wait. If I could have swung it, I'd have gone over for it.

Fans mixing together    and top quality rugby being played over 6 weeks  

Ah yeah, I forgot they had a warm up game tonight. SA lineup suggests they are going all guns blazing.

SecretFly wrote:This 'Time Together' thing is quite important in reference to World Cup run-in periods v other ordinary year 'friendly' encounters.

World Cup 'Time Together' can have a big impact on performance levels, and mostly that impact is more evident in the considered lesser sides.  Now of course, any improvement in cohesiveness is relative, and top sides still expect to get the better of the 'minnows' but as we've witnessed in the past, that expectation can prove foolhardy and embarrassing.

It's a World Cup, it's giant killer Japan, it's at home.  Any lack of respect or appreciation for the possibilities of 'upset' and yep, Ireland could stumble.  But I really do think Ireland have honestly learned all these lessons by now.  I don't expect lethargy or complacency this time.  I just don't.

Japan could still win of course...fate and all that.  But they'll have to work for it.  It won't be delivered on a plate of surprise.

Ireland for all their depth and talent have not been playing to the sum of their parts since November last year. Whether that turns around tomorrow or in Japan I don’t know but they should be performing at a higher level than they are at the moment.

Hence I think this pool is probably closer than we preconceive.

That's what I'm factoring in Maes.

On current form, based on the year so far, you'd dump over half the players off the plane in an idealised world. You would. Let's not pretend otherwise. On current form showing, extremely few if any Irish players would make it onto an England or Wales team...except perhaps for Conway and Stockdale. They just don't rate high enough at anything right now...

...but there they are, same old heads.... on the plane.
I sense a serious build up of intent to hold much of their growl for the World Cup.  You could say that about all sides of course, but not all sides get the constant ridicule about the QF cut off habit.  So there is special reason for Ireland and Irish players to resist the poison chalice this time of heading to a WC pumped with hope only to blow out when the Schidt hits the fan.
I think this effort will be our most clinical effort to date.  Could be wrong and our current form could be all we've honestly got.  I just can't believe it though.  I just don't believe Furlong has become a fat harmless impotent puppy within the space of a few months.  Time will tell.

SecretFly wrote:That's what I'm factoring in Maes.

On current form, based on the year so far, you'd dump over half the players off the plane in an idealised world. You would.  Let's not pretend otherwise.  On current form showing, extremely few if any Irish players would make it onto an England or Wales team...except perhaps for Conway and Stockdale. They just don't rate high enough at anything right now...

...but there they are, same old heads.... on the plane.
I sense a serious build up of intent to hold much of their growl for the World Cup.  You could say that about all sides of course, but not all sides get the constant ridicule about the QF cut off habit.  So there is special reason for Ireland and Irish players to resist the poison chalice this time of heading to a WC pumped with hope only to blow out when the Schidt hits the fan.
I think this effort will be our most clinical effort to date.  Could be wrong and our current form could be all we've honestly got.  I just can't believe it though.  I just don't believe Furlong has become a fat harmless impotent puppy within the space of a few months.  Time will tell.

They have proved they can mix it with the best, just need to find a bit of colour and they’ll go far.

7-0 so far in Japans match v SA to SA

14 - 0 now. It looks as though it's going to be a long day for Japan.

HALFTIME - JAPAN 0-22 SOUTH AFRICA
That is the is the break and it has been a good intense opening half of the game, both sides pushing each other to the max.
The scoreline might suggest the Boks have had it easy but it is the hosts who have enjoyed much of the ball possession (61%) forcing the Boks to make 58 tackles in the half.

Maybe Japan won’t be such a threat to Ireland and Scotland then

maestegmafia wrote:Maybe Japan won’t be such a threat to Ireland and Scotland then

Maybe Japan will run those teams ragged

ebop wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Maybe Japan won’t be such a threat to Ireland and Scotland then

Maybe Japan will run those teams ragged

Maybe they will. Maybe they will.

Maybe a Typhoon will save us. It's a draw if a game is called off isn't it?

SecretFly wrote:

ebop wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Maybe Japan won’t be such a threat to Ireland and Scotland then

Maybe Japan will run those teams ragged

Maybe they will.  Maybe they will.

Maybe a Typhoon will save us.  It's a draw if a game is called off isn't it?

Indeed, typhoon and 2pts, not a bad return. But what about that humidity and heat?! Damn, some teams with a lot of fatties are going to be feeling that hard. Heat/humidity and headaches and stuff. Some of those big teams like England and SA are going to feel it over a prolonged period.

ebop wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ebop wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Maybe Japan won’t be such a threat to Ireland and Scotland then

Maybe Japan will run those teams ragged

Maybe they will.  Maybe they will.

Maybe a Typhoon will save us.  It's a draw if a game is called off isn't it?

Indeed, typhoon and 2pts, not a bad return. But what about that humidity and heat?! Damn, some teams with a lot of fatties are going to be feeling that hard. Heat/humidity and headaches and stuff. Some of those big teams like England and SA are going to feel it over a prolonged period.

Yeah, I think it is a misnomer to think SA players are big. Looking at the individual players only Bok carrying excess weight is Frans Malherbe. The rest are in peak condition.

Old Man wrote:

ebop wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ebop wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Maybe Japan won’t be such a threat to Ireland and Scotland then

Maybe Japan will run those teams ragged

Maybe they will.  Maybe they will.

Maybe a Typhoon will save us.  It's a draw if a game is called off isn't it?

Indeed, typhoon and 2pts, not a bad return. But what about that humidity and heat?! Damn, some teams with a lot of fatties are going to be feeling that hard. Heat/humidity and headaches and stuff. Some of those big teams like England and SA are going to feel it over a prolonged period.

Yeah, I think it is a misnomer to think SA players are big. Looking at the individual players only Bok carrying excess weight is Frans Malherbe. The rest are in peak condition.

For sure, SA players are big boned and seem to be in peak condition, cut, muscular. But what about that heat/humidity? Tough conditions for a big person. Some teams are going to be run off their feet over the course of the RWC. This won’t be a grind / kick points RWC. European teams are going to suffer.

ebop wrote:

Old Man wrote:

ebop wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ebop wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Maybe Japan won’t be such a threat to Ireland and Scotland then

Maybe Japan will run those teams ragged

Maybe they will.  Maybe they will.

Maybe a Typhoon will save us.  It's a draw if a game is called off isn't it?

Indeed, typhoon and 2pts, not a bad return. But what about that humidity and heat?! Damn, some teams with a lot of fatties are going to be feeling that hard. Heat/humidity and headaches and stuff. Some of those big teams like England and SA are going to feel it over a prolonged period.

Yeah, I think it is a misnomer to think SA players are big. Looking at the individual players only Bok carrying excess weight is Frans Malherbe. The rest are in peak condition.

For sure, SA players are big boned and seem to be in peak condition, cut, muscular. But what about that heat/humidity? Tough conditions for a big person. Some teams are going to be run off their feet over the course of the RWC. This won’t be a grind / kick points RWC. European teams are going to suffer.

Nah European teams are fair fit, the all blacks have been looking a bit more chonky than usual and Hansen doesn't know how to fix this beyond picking props who are less good at scrumming and therefore "more mobile"

Tramptastic wrote:

ebop wrote:

Old Man wrote:

ebop wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ebop wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Maybe Japan won’t be such a threat to Ireland and Scotland then

Maybe Japan will run those teams ragged

Maybe they will.  Maybe they will.

Maybe a Typhoon will save us.  It's a draw if a game is called off isn't it?

Indeed, typhoon and 2pts, not a bad return. But what about that humidity and heat?! Damn, some teams with a lot of fatties are going to be feeling that hard. Heat/humidity and headaches and stuff. Some of those big teams like England and SA are going to feel it over a prolonged period.

Yeah, I think it is a misnomer to think SA players are big. Looking at the individual players only Bok carrying excess weight is Frans Malherbe. The rest are in peak condition.

For sure, SA players are big boned and seem to be in peak condition, cut, muscular. But what about that heat/humidity? Tough conditions for a big person. Some teams are going to be run off their feet over the course of the RWC. This won’t be a grind / kick points RWC. European teams are going to suffer.

Nah European teams are fair fit, the all blacks have been looking a bit  more chonky than usual and Hansen doesn't know how to fix this beyond picking props who are less good at scrumming and therefore "more mobile"

On what evidence are you saying ‘European teams are fair fit’ Tramptastic? Seems a bit fanciful. They’re fair skinned and susceptible to sunburn and heat stroke is probably more factual.

Looking at the stats, seems like Japan ran around like crazy while SA tackled and kicked.

LondonTiger wrote:Looking at the stats, seems like Japan ran around like crazy while SA tackled and kicked.

The theory in studio before the match was Boks must playto their structures, not play helter skelter rugby.

Japan had around two thirds possession, they made most of the running, the Boks however were lethal on counter and executed well for the most part.

This world cup the handling errors are likely to be a big issue.

ebop wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:

ebop wrote:

Old Man wrote:

ebop wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ebop wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Maybe Japan won’t be such a threat to Ireland and Scotland then

Maybe Japan will run those teams ragged

Maybe they will.  Maybe they will.

Maybe a Typhoon will save us.  It's a draw if a game is called off isn't it?

Indeed, typhoon and 2pts, not a bad return. But what about that humidity and heat?! Damn, some teams with a lot of fatties are going to be feeling that hard. Heat/humidity and headaches and stuff. Some of those big teams like England and SA are going to feel it over a prolonged period.

Yeah, I think it is a misnomer to think SA players are big. Looking at the individual players only Bok carrying excess weight is Frans Malherbe. The rest are in peak condition.

For sure, SA players are big boned and seem to be in peak condition, cut, muscular. But what about that heat/humidity? Tough conditions for a big person. Some teams are going to be run off their feet over the course of the RWC. This won’t be a grind / kick points RWC. European teams are going to suffer.

Nah European teams are fair fit, the all blacks have been looking a bit  more chonky than usual and Hansen doesn't know how to fix this beyond picking props who are less good at scrumming and therefore "more mobile"

On what evidence are you saying ‘European teams are fair fit’ Tramptastic? Seems a bit fanciful. They’re fair skinned and susceptible to sunburn and heat stroke is probably more factual.

You ever been to France? It's quite warm... some would say hot even... especially in the south of france where all the good rugby is played...

2 other good examples are Townsends declaration of playing the fastest rugby in the world which, you'd imagine, the players fitness levels would have to be through the roof. Also Gatland is famous for his cryo chambers and hyper intensive training sessions.

And then there's Eddie Jones' training sessions which are famous for being psychotically tortuous fitness wise. So yeh, I'd bank on northern hemisphere players to be in fairly good nick come the world cup! I mean they all play in warmer countries, or as warm, as new zealand so I'd suggest they'd handle the heat better than the all blacks

Tramptastic wrote:

ebop wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:

ebop wrote:

Old Man wrote:

ebop wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ebop wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Maybe Japan won’t be such a threat to Ireland and Scotland then

Maybe Japan will run those teams ragged

Maybe they will.  Maybe they will.

Maybe a Typhoon will save us.  It's a draw if a game is called off isn't it?

Indeed, typhoon and 2pts, not a bad return. But what about that humidity and heat?! Damn, some teams with a lot of fatties are going to be feeling that hard. Heat/humidity and headaches and stuff. Some of those big teams like England and SA are going to feel it over a prolonged period.

Yeah, I think it is a misnomer to think SA players are big. Looking at the individual players only Bok carrying excess weight is Frans Malherbe. The rest are in peak condition.

For sure, SA players are big boned and seem to be in peak condition, cut, muscular. But what about that heat/humidity? Tough conditions for a big person. Some teams are going to be run off their feet over the course of the RWC. This won’t be a grind / kick points RWC. European teams are going to suffer.

Nah European teams are fair fit, the all blacks have been looking a bit  more chonky than usual and Hansen doesn't know how to fix this beyond picking props who are less good at scrumming and therefore "more mobile"

On what evidence are you saying ‘European teams are fair fit’ Tramptastic? Seems a bit fanciful. They’re fair skinned and susceptible to sunburn and heat stroke is probably more factual.

You ever been to France? It's quite warm... some would say hot even... especially in the south of france where all the good rugby is played...

2 other good examples are Townsends declaration of playing the fastest rugby in the world which, you'd imagine, the players fitness levels would have to be through the roof. Also Gatland is famous for his cryo chambers and hyper intensive training sessions.

And then there's Eddie Jones' training sessions which are famous for being psychotically tortuous fitness wise. So yeh, I'd bank on northern hemisphere players to be in fairly good nick come the world cup! I mean they all play in warmer countries, or as warm, as new zealand so I'd suggest they'd handle the heat better than the all blacks

There is such a thing as over training, body also needs recovery time, dehydration and fitness will be a balancing act this world.

Exactly Old Man, it’ll be a balance between power, speed, skill, stamina, fatigue management under conditions that a RWC has never been played under. SR players play in Japan. NH players do not.

Tramptastic wrote:I mean they all play in warmer countries, or as warm, as new zealand so I'd suggest they'd handle the heat better than the all blacks

Yeah, Scotland, Ireland, England and Wales are warm countries. I’ve lived in the UK and it’s our equivalent of winter for 9 months, lol

Conditions are a better argument than players may get sub burnt tbf. It's why they're training in similar conditions.

True, sun burn won’t determine the RWC 7.5, very good observation there. But big fat muscular teams that fatigue themselves after a game or two probably should rule themselves out already.

ebop wrote:True, sun burn won’t determine the RWC 7.5, very good observation there. But big fat muscular teams that fatigue themselves after a game or two probably should rule themselves out already.

Indeed, teams like New Zealand!

Surely depends on tactics. Get yourself a big fat muscular pack and let them ground the opposition into the ground and it'll be fine. Beauty of rugby is theres not 1 way of playing. By the sounds of it you'll be favouring Scotland.

Scotland will give Japan a good run for their money

No 7&1/2 wrote:Surely depends on tactics. Get yourself a big fat muscular pack and let them ground the opposition into the ground and it'll be fine. Beauty of rugby is theres not 1 way of playing. By the sounds of it you'll be favouring Scotland.

As a Scotsman it's heresy to suggest but I'm looking forward to watching England at the world cup (not supporting them, that would be too far) but their power game they have when they get going is pretty awesome to watch at times.

As a Scotsman, I do also enjoy their occasional implosions though

ebop wrote:Scotland will give Japan a good run for their money

I hope we can scrape by in a close 6-3 game, it's all we deserve really

Well 2 teams who you think suit the conditions. They'll be battling out in the final wont they ebop. I mean japan showed today that have a big pack like south Africa and you'll really struggle.

Dont remember Tramp....

No 7&1/2 wrote:Dont remember Tramp....

Is it 40 minutes of glorious play followed by 40 minutes of white noise?

to be fair, 2 years prior to that we had to witness a 60-21 drubbing so at least England havent been on the receiving end of that!

I had the pleasure of watching the latest instalment in Edinburgh next to a welsh stag do.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I had the pleasure of watching the latest instalment in Edinburgh next to a welsh stag do.

You have my sympathies!

ABs didn’t even bother putting another on with 15 to go as Tonga we’re down one. All 23 got on beforehand anyway. Bit of a game of touch for the boys. A chance to stretch the legs, nothing more.

Taylorman wrote:ABs didn’t even bother putting another on with 15 to go as Tonga we’re down one. All 23 got on beforehand anyway. Bit of a game of touch for the boys. A chance to stretch the legs, nothing more.

Been a day of cricket scores

ABs 92-7 Tonga

Japan 7-43 SA

Scots 36-9 Georgia

England 37-0 Italy

The typhoon has delayed the arrival of the Australian team. There's no real sign of it in Tokyo yet but the main overhead train operator has cut back services until tomorrow morning. Schools are telling parents to judge for themselves whether to keep kids at home until the wind and rain dies down.

If there had been World Cup matches on today, there's a good chance they would have been cancelled. You have to consider not only the window of the match, but the logistics of people getting to and fro.

England could also be delayed but their route to Japan takes them over Russia, and the top of the globe, so they may not be affected. Australia come from the south, so they have no clear route to Japan until the typhoon has passed.

Temperatures tomorrow may reach as high as 37 degrees, which is definitely very hot for the time of year but not exceptional. It was close to that today, and I wouldn't have wanted to play rugby. Everyone is hoping we get a sudden change for the cooler again.

With all that heat and wind and rain drama potential, you'd begin to wonder why Japan was chosen to host in a Typhoon 'season'?

The WC will be a bit of a non-event if games are cancelled and draws awarded. The winner, any winner, won't have the kudos they'd hope to have if it happens.

I think the dangers of cancellations and draws might require teams to be even more prepared to WIN any and all pool games they do get to play. In the past it hasn't been absolutely necessary but the fear of games being called off might make these pool games intense.

1 week to go people, 1 week to go!!!!!

excited? nervous? giddy with delight that international rugby is back with a vengence?

Yeah cant wait. Its getting really exciting.

It seems many are tipping SA to win this, are they really that good?

I think England have the pace and power to do it, plus the depth. However they have a tough pool and their record in big games hasn't been great over the past few seasons, so I expect they will slip up somewhere.

NZ on paper don't look as strong but they know how to win these.

Beyond that Wales will be tough to beat but with Anscombe out I'm not sure they have the depth to go all the way.

Ireland more and more, I think have been holding something back this season, I believe we'll see a return to their 2018 intensity plus a few new tricks.

Something tells me France may grow into the competition if they qualify and could be dark horses.

Outside of that I don't think anyone else will challenge.

My prediction:-

QF 1: - Ireland v SA
QF 2 :- Eng V Wales
QF 3 :- France v Australia
QF 4 :- NZ V Scotland  

SF 1: Ireland V Wales
SF 2 : NZ V France

Final: Ireland v France

Winners: Ireland

Love your prediction Rodders. I think Ireland are going to check out at the semis.

No SA arent as good as people think in my view but they are good. In my view SA, NZ, Ire, Wal and Eng are all around about the same level.

I think SA's chances will fall apart if Pollard gets injured. Ireland's might too if Sexton who has never started a world cup quarter final gets injured.

I think Sexton will be wrapped in cotton wool if we beat Scotland, probably Rob Kearney too.

Neither are particularly durable these days so I expect they'll be used sparingly during the pool stages.

rodders wrote:I think Sexton will be wrapped in cotton wool if we beat Scotland, probably Rob Kearney too.

Neither are particularly durable these days so I expect they'll be used sparingly during the pool stages.  

Yeah I agree although I think it is a little over played how injury prone they both are given they have 95 and 91 (Sexton) caps each. Kearney could become a centurion at the world cup and Sexton could get to 98 at most.

Imagine earning your 100th and last cap at a RWC final.

SA are a team that are nto as good as people think but they have vastly improved over the last two years.

With SA, they are very much a team that look to out muscle you in close and pummel you into submission. If you manage to keep them moving, change the points of attack and spread things wide, they can start to struggle.

Let them pull you into a close quarters arm wrestle and its game over for you!

rodders wrote:It seems many are tipping SA to win this, are they really that good?

I think England have the pace and power to do it, plus the depth. However they have a tough pool and their record in big games hasn't been great over the past few seasons, so I expect they will slip up somewhere.

NZ on paper don't look as strong but they know how to win these.

Beyond that Wales will be tough to beat but with Anscombe out I'm not sure they have the depth to go all the way.

Ireland more and more, I think have been holding something back this season, I believe we'll see a return to their 2018 intensity plus a few new tricks.

Something tells me France may grow into the competition if they qualify and could be dark horses.

Outside of that I don't think anyone else will challenge.

My prediction:-

QF 1: - Ireland v SA
QF 2 :- Eng V Wales
QF 3 :- France v Australia
QF 4 :- NZ V Scotland  

SF 1: Ireland V Wales
SF 2 : NZ V France

Final: Ireland v France

Winners: Ireland

It seems plenty of people are putting faith in Rassie Erasmus. I just don’t know how youjust erase what has happened under Allister Coetzee that easily.

All Rassie has done is made SA dangerous, but to win the RWC you need to put away NZto win the pool, then Scotland to win the QF, then likely England to get to the final and then who ever is left standing in the final.

Or

Lose to NZ, then put away Ireland, then Wales/Oz and then whoever is in the final.

Personally I don’t see that happening.

Looking at the squad the 1-10 is good, might even say world class, then you get to an i experienced backline with Willie le Roux not in great form.

Question is will they handle the pressure and will their backline defence be found out?

As far as predictions are concerned, only a brave man will confidently predict this RWC, which is about as open as a barn door.

There are sure to be one of the contenders to disappoint, maybe two, who knows?

tigertattie wrote:SA are a team that are nto as good as people think but they have vastly improved over the last two years.

With SA, they are very much a team that look to out muscle you in close and pummel you into submission. If you manage to keep them moving, change the points of attack and spread things wide, they can start to struggle.

Let them pull you into a close quarters arm wrestle and its game over for you!

There is a bit more to this SA team, yes they play a basic game, Rassie has not had enough time to complicate their game plan or evolve it into something spectacular.

Their pack is more mobile than you think and they have boat loads of pace out wide.

Old Man wrote:
As far as predictions are concerned, only a brave man will confidently predict this RWC, which is about as open as a barn door.

There are sure to be one of the contenders to disappoint, maybe two, who knows?

Yes you see I agree with a lot of that and also that there isn't much between the top 6.

So with that in mind I predict, with some confidence, the winner will not come from pool B or C. Whoever comes from those pools will have a much tougher run and therefore need to be considerably better than the other teams, which we all agree they aren't.

Therefore the winner will come from A or D, wait and see....

So you suggest Ireland, Wales or Australia?

Old Man wrote:So you suggest Ireland, Wales or Australia?

Not me Sherlock Holmes -

"when you have excluded the impossible whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

rodders wrote:

Old Man wrote:So you suggest Ireland, Wales or Australia?

Not me Sherlock Holmes -

"when you have excluded the impossible whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

Well my dear Watson, we should have a new name on Bill this October.