Wales and Ireland Two warm up test series Match Thread

[maestegmafia]

First topic message reminder :

7th SEPTEMBER 2019
KO: 14:00
IRELAND VS WALES
Aviva Stadium

Ireland

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 91 caps
14. Jordan Larmour (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 15 caps
13. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 37 caps
12. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 19 caps
11. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 77 caps
10. Jonathan Sexton (St Marys College/Leinster) 83 caps
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 73 caps

1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 90 caps
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 119 caps CAPTAIN
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 35 caps
4. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 18 caps
5. Jean Kleyn (Munster) 2 caps
6. CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 32 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 18 caps
8. Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 15 caps

Replacements
16. Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 69 caps
17. Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 30 caps
18. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 17 caps
19. Iain Henderson (Queens University/Ulster) 47 caps
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 22
21. Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster) 13 caps
22. Jack Carty (Buccaneers/Connacht) 6 caps
23. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 23 caps


Wales

Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets); George North (Ospreys), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Josh Adams (Worcester Warriors); Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues); Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Elliot Dee (Dragons), Tomas Francis (Exeter), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Alun Wyn Jones (capt, Ospreys), Aaron Wainwright (Dragons), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Ross Moriarty (Dragons).

Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints), Owen Watkin (Ospreys)

[mikey_dragon]

In that replay the Toner challenge looks pretty bad, although mitigating circumstances as you say, Rob Evans was running low. They've certainly let a few slide during these warm-ups. Interestingly, some fans posted stills of the Irish LH collapsing the scrum, which was pretty clear at the time. They seemed to swap over; first the Irish LH and then the TH, and then repeat. Both Brown and Lee were incorrectly penalised and you know what else happened there. It just proves what I said the other day. It'll be considered good play by the Irish front row, but it's incredibly poor from Garces to not notice it happening that often.

[BigTrevsbigmac]

You may possibly be right Mickey all down to interpretation. However. The Welsh scrum was pinged in all 3 games with different refs and it will be an area where other teams think they can target Wales in the WC.
I actually thought Rob Evans was the best LH scrummager for Wales & he has been omitted.

[maestegmafia]

In that replay the Toner challenge looks pretty bad, although mitigating circumstances as you say, Rob Evans was running low. They've certainly let a few slide during these warm-ups. Interestingly, some fans posted stills of the Irish LH collapsing the scrum, which was pretty clear at the time. They seemed to swap over; first the Irish LH and then the TH, and then repeat. Both Brown and Lee were incorrectly penalised and you know what else happened there. It just proves what I said the other day. It'll be considered good play by the Irish front row, but it's incredibly poor from Garces to not notice it happening that often.

I doubt that the condition of our current scrummaging powers are that big an issue. Not much benefit in playing your hand in the warm ups. Hopefully we will see more work done in the build up and results in the pool games.

I have been pretty happy with how the warm ups have gone so far. Considering who we have selected and how we chose to play I don’t feel there are any major issues and any area we were weaker than our opponents we have highlighted.

I know many people would have liked to have seen and all conquering and all star performance by the lads but would that really benefit us? It’s very easy to do your analysis on a team that is playing well. Very hard to do it on a team that is performing averagely and not showing their best.

[BigTrevsbigmac]

Mr Price knows

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-one-really-concerning-problem-16773118

[maestegmafia]

Mr Price knows

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-one-really-concerning-problem-16773118

Everyone takes Graham Price’s column with a pinch of salt.

[Cyril]

Maestegmafia, I would say that Wales have probably played their hand more than other sides in terms of team selection and tactics.

They are the only side to have put out practically full strength in two games so far.

You would want to be winning more than losing, or at least putting down a marker in these games too.

[Guest]

We’ll be ok Cyril. You just concentrate on yourselves!

Saying that, I don’t agree with the notion that Wales have somehow held something back in the scrums and not shown their hand (if that’s what Maes is suggesting). Not going in fully in the scrums would risk injury so that would be daft. So I think what you saw, scrum-wise, in those games is what it is. However, as someone posted elsewhere I think Wales will be fine against most teams at scrum time and have at least parity with our first choice. It’s just against the top scrummaging teams like England that we’ll struggle a bit. But then historically I think we often have.

[Cyril]

Oracle, that’s cool. My post was aimed towards MM, who seems to think (unless I’ve misread his postings) that it’s better to perform badly in the warm-ups than give any hint of different options. He also seems to think that Wales are keeping their powder drier than others, which I doubt. If I was a cynic, I’d think it was a veiled dig at England’s performance against Ireland. Luckily, that’s not me

[maestegmafia]

Cyril we have had enough of your trolling, and re-interpreting people’s posts thanks.

Take Oracles advise and post something about rugby not other posters for a change.

[Pie]

Ah i see so thats what trolling is....'re interpreting people's posts'.

There is no need for the 're'....he's just interpreting them...but surely he was just having a laugh and not doing anything to offend you anyone

[mikey_dragon]

Wasn’t it Gatland that suggested some things were being held back? I really don’t see how a poster repeating that could be considered a dig at England’s recent performance against Ireland (headscratch).

[Pie]

Depends on your megalomaniacal quotient

[Cyril]

Could another moderator please look above and explain why I’ve been red-penned? I can’t PM or ask this on the feedback forum (as it’s been closed). This is getting a bit silly. Thanks.

[stevetynant]

Can't help thinking Ireland will give another disjointed display this weekend - Sexton, Henshaw and Earls have yet to play this year. I know Schmitt wants to give everyone a chance but perhaps these sides should be a gradual evolution changing just a handful of players each match until they find rhythm not wholesale changes each time. Its a fine line between shaking off rust and risking Injury but Ireland need to win the Scotland game to avoid unneccesary pressure in the remaining games - hopefully they will then be up to speed by the quarters to have any chance.

I think it will be close this weekend but Wales will have their scrum examined once again and Ireland their Line out - looking forward to it.

[Guest]

Could another moderator please look above and explain why I’ve been red-penned? I can’t PM or ask this on the feedback forum (as it’s been closed). This is getting a bit silly. Thanks.

I certainly didn't think you were trolling!

[Collapse2005]

Can't help thinking Ireland will give another disjointed display this weekend - Sexton, Henshaw and Earls have yet to play this year. I know Schmitt wants to give everyone a chance but perhaps these sides should be a gradual evolution changing just a handful of players each match until they find rhythm not wholesale changes each time. Its a fine line between shaking off rust and risking Injury but Ireland need to win the Scotland game to avoid unneccesary pressure in the remaining games - hopefully they will then be up to speed by the quarters to have any chance.

I think it will be close this weekend but Wales will have their scrum examined once again and Ireland their Line out - looking forward to it.

It looks that way alright. This is the most important warm up game in my view. Need a big performance in this one to get on track.

[LondonTiger]

Could another moderator please look above and explain why I’ve been red-penned? I can’t PM or ask this on the feedback forum (as it’s been closed). This is getting a bit silly. Thanks.

Cyril,

I am sending you a PM. If you are unable to read PMs please let me know (on this thread I guess). 


All,

While I am sure some of you quite enjoy watching spats, and occasionally like to stir the pot a little  , I am choosing to respond to Cyril by PM to try and help this thread return to discussing the match just finished and the one coming up.

[SecretFly]

Can't help thinking Ireland will give another disjointed display this weekend - Sexton, Henshaw and Earls have yet to play this year. I know Schmitt wants to give everyone a chance but perhaps these sides should be a gradual evolution changing just a handful of players each match until they find rhythm not wholesale changes each time. Its a fine line between shaking off rust and risking Injury but Ireland need to win the Scotland game to avoid unneccesary pressure in the remaining games - hopefully they will then be up to speed by the quarters to have any chance.

I think it will be close this weekend but Wales will have their scrum examined once again and Ireland their Line out - looking forward to it.

We're holding things back.........

[Guest]

So going back to rugby and strong teams - I think the starting 15 posted by MM would be my choice as 'strongest' 15 too (ignoring players injured and out of the tour).  So this is the strongest team I think we could pick for the return fixture, but I think Gats could end up trying some other players like Patchell and Tomos Williams again:

1. N Smith
2. K Owens
3. T Francis
4. A Beard
5. AW Jones
6. A Wainwright
7. J Tipuric
8. R Moriarty
9. G Davies
10. D Biggar
11. G North
12. H Parkes
13. J Davies
14. J Adams
15. L Willams

Whats the strongest Ireland could put out?  Would be good to see them side by side.

[rodders]

I guess we will see a close to full strength line up -

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Kleyn
5. Ryan
6. Ruddock
7. VDF
8. Stander
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Larmour
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose
14. Earls
15. Kearney

Bench: Kilcoyne, Cronin, Ryan, Henderson/Beirne, Conan, McGrath, Carty, Farrell

[Collapse2005]

I think Wales might shade this one.

[LondonTiger]

I guess we will see a close to full strength line up -

6. Ruddock

Because he needs gametime, or because he is the best 6?

[rodders]

I think Wales might shade this one.

Noooooooo!

[rodders]

I guess we will see a close to full strength line up -

6. Ruddock

Because he needs gametime, or because he is the best 6?

The former, we haven't seen him since the Italy game so I'm sure he will feature. POM started the last 2 games.

[SecretFly]

Ireland will play much better than against England.  (They just gotta!!!). To a degree, pressure now off.  Now is the time to hone the machine when the players know that barring injury, they're the chosen ones.

Yes of course if Wales come with the intention of winning (and why wouldn't they to kill off Joe's last home game just as Ireland killed off Gatland's?) they have the capability.  Gats would enjoy turning the tide for sure, and with his main boys on the field, he'd like it done in fine style too.

I have a feeling though that Ireland will be in a mood now and what better way to stir those juices than Wales, who seldom play a casual game of jogging.  Whether Ireland want to play a full on game or not, this Welsh side will goad it out of them.

It's there for either side but I sense Ireland will want to now test a tempo they haven't gotten to since 2018.  Time will tell how well it functions.

[RiscaGame]

I’m certain Gatland has pretty much hinted in interviews, that Patchell would probably start this test. He even mentioned it when interviewed after the squad announcement.

It makes perfect sense to, as well.

He also didn’t say strongest team for this game, he said a strong team.

[maestegmafia]

I was just looking at the ESPN Stats pages for the last two clashes between Ireland and Wales

Six Nations match

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstats?gameId=294259&league=180659

Last weekends game

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstats?gameId=294134&league=289234

[BigTrevsbigmac]

Interesting those stats but as we all know they never tell the whole story.
What stands out for me in that second game is Wales missed over 20% of their tackles which is very ‘unWales’ like.

[maestegmafia]

Interesting those stats but as we all know they never tell the whole story.
What stands out for me in that second game is Wales missed over 20% of their tackles which is very ‘unWales’ like.

A huge amount of missed tackles.

That is possibly due to it being a weaker selection, possibly because it was not the climax of a campaign rather than the start of one a training match if you will.

Ireland’s missed tackle stats are up in the last match compared to the six nations game, probably for similar reasons.

[Guest]

Plus first game in months for a number of those Wales players last week (not sure about Ireland). Still not good enough. But perhaps answers the 'why'.

[LondonTiger]

Sean Edwards will probably not be happy with the tackle stats across all 3 matches. 78% at Twickenham followed by two x 77% at Principality.

What will have made Edwards happier was Wales "red zone" defence at Principality against England. The visitors made 14 clean breaks yet failed to score a try. In the end the point of defence is to stop the opposition scoring - though the high tackles missed and line breaks conceded is something he will want to sort out.

[Collapse2005]

Tackle count will be low until players have 1 foot on the plane I suspect.

[Collapse2005]

Just re-watched the game there. Looks like Wales' first try was a fairly clear forward pass. Not that it really matters in a warm up game but kind of surprised they didnt review it on the TV.

Also technically when Luke McGrath stopped a try on the tryline he made contact with his shoulder and the Welsh guys face. I assume likewise with Toner there must be some sore of mitigation at play for tackles on the line.

https://youtu.be/-5pROGqnVME

[mikey_dragon]

Just re-watched the game there. Looks like Wales' first try was a fairly clear forward pass. Not that it really matters in a warm up game but kind of surprised they didnt review it on the TV.

Also technically when Luke McGrath stopped a try on the tryline he made contact with his shoulder and the Welsh guys face. I assume likewise with Toner there must be some sore of mitigation at play for tackles on the line.

https://youtu.be/-5pROGqnVME

Where as Ireland collapsed the scrum several times and were unpunished. Wales were incorrectly penalised so much so to the point a penalty try had to be awarded. Interesting that Ireland’s last two wins over Wales were heavily reliant on some dumbfounded interpretations by Glen Jackson and Jerome Garces.

[Collapse2005]

Mikey, its just a warm up game. Also Ireland has a quality scrum, its no disgrace for Wales B/C to be dominated by the Irish scrum.

[mikey_dragon]

Mikey, its just a warm up game. Also Ireland has a quality scrum, its no disgrace for Wales B/C to be dominated by the Irish scrum.

Well then why are you complaining about a forward pass that never was? We’ve already discussed dominance. It’s not dominance if you have to resort to illegality, it just shows the incompetence of Garces who didn’t notice it.

[maestegmafia]

As I said earlier the result matters little in dire lies with under strength teams. The main thing is that both got a lot out of the game, certainly selecting the squads.

Looking forward to this weekends match. Do we know when the teams are announced?

[mikey_dragon]

Do we know when the teams are announced?

When Guns says so?

[maestegmafia]

Do we know when the teams are announced?

When Guns says so?

Great can’t wait

[Collapse2005]

It was just for you Mikey

[SecretFly]

Who is reffing at the weekend?

And is he in your little black book too, mike?

[Cyril]

In response to LondonTiger,

I don’t have access to PMs. You’re welcome to post your message on here. The feedback thread is locked so there’s nowhere else really.

[Collapse2005]

In response to LondonTiger,

I don’t have access to PMs. You’re welcome to post your message on here. The feedback thread is locked so there’s nowhere else really.

In trouble again Cyril?

[Collapse2005]

I can see this game being a pretty intense test match with both teams fairly hungry for a win. Weather for Saturday is 18 degrees and dry

[maestegmafia]

Sam Warburton’s Wales XV: Liam Williams; George North, Jonathan Davies, Hadleigh Parkes, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Nicky Smith, Ken Owens, Tomas Francis; Alun Wyn Jones (C), Adam Beard; Aaron Wainwright, Josh Navidi, Ross Moriarty

Subs: Elliot Dee, Rhys Carre, Dillon Lewis, Jake Ball, Justin Tipuric, Tomos Williams, Rhys Patchell, Owen Watkin

[Guest]

Sam Warburton’s Wales XV: Liam Williams; George North, Jonathan Davies, Hadleigh Parkes, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Nicky Smith, Ken Owens, Tomas Francis; Alun Wyn Jones (C), Adam Beard; Aaron Wainwright, Josh Navidi, Ross Moriarty

Hang on, isn’t that the same team you and I picked as our strongest team?! C’mon Warburton, do your own work! Don’t just copy and paste from 606v2!

[Guest]

Sam Warburton’s Wales XV: Liam Williams; George North, Jonathan Davies, Hadleigh Parkes, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Nicky Smith, Ken Owens, Tomas Francis; Alun Wyn Jones (C), Adam Beard; Aaron Wainwright, Josh Navidi, Ross Moriarty

Hang on, isn’t that the same team you and I picked as our strongest team?! C’mon Warburton, do your own work! Don’t just copy and paste from 606v2!

Oops, sorry. Just noticed he’s gone for Navidi over Tipuric. Sorry Sam, I take it back. As you were......!

[RiscaGame]

That’s what Warburton’s “World Cup Final” team would be, isn’t it? I saw some headline pop up on FB earlier?

Gatland also seems likely to start Dee on Saturday, as well as Patchell.

[maestegmafia]

That’s what Warburton’s “World Cup Final” team would be, isn’t it? I saw some headline pop up on FB earlier?

Gatland also seems likely to pick Dee on Saturday, as well as Patchell.

I thought Dee did a great job when he came on. Elias was having a decent game too

[mikey_dragon]

Dublin would be quite the test for those two. Hopefully Stockdale isn't playing, he could pick off a few stray passes from our No.10 quite easily. I imagine Gatland is trying to create a strong bench? I think we were stronger last year, so I can't agree with Gatland that it's our strongest squad ever. We're without Jenkins, Faletau, Webb and Anscombe. Add in those and we'd look very good. Also, without Faletau there then I think our best back-row is with Shingler, Navidi and Tipuric; although I can appreciate that Shingler might not be back to his best just yet. I guess I'm still not entirely sold on Moriarty at 8. Wainright is probably the new super-sub.

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