Wales and Ireland Two warm up test series Match Thread

[maestegmafia]

First topic message reminder :

7th SEPTEMBER 2019
KO: 14:00
IRELAND VS WALES
Aviva Stadium

Ireland

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 91 caps
14. Jordan Larmour (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 15 caps
13. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 37 caps
12. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 19 caps
11. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 77 caps
10. Jonathan Sexton (St Marys College/Leinster) 83 caps
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 73 caps

1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 90 caps
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 119 caps CAPTAIN
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 35 caps
4. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 18 caps
5. Jean Kleyn (Munster) 2 caps
6. CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 32 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 18 caps
8. Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 15 caps

Replacements
16. Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 69 caps
17. Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 30 caps
18. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 17 caps
19. Iain Henderson (Queens University/Ulster) 47 caps
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 22
21. Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster) 13 caps
22. Jack Carty (Buccaneers/Connacht) 6 caps
23. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 23 caps


Wales

Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets); George North (Ospreys), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Josh Adams (Worcester Warriors); Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues); Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Elliot Dee (Dragons), Tomas Francis (Exeter), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Alun Wyn Jones (capt, Ospreys), Aaron Wainwright (Dragons), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Ross Moriarty (Dragons).

Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints), Owen Watkin (Ospreys)

[No 7&1/2]

Mentioned it on another thread but theres been several incidents which I think should have been cited completely ignored in these warms ups. Not good.

[Guest]

It’s shocking 7.5. This Toner shoulder to the head incident is a clear cut red card and ban. Crazy inconsistency between how Scott Barrett went for a skate and this gets nothing. It’s a bit disgraceful actually. And Poite the dodgy French referee with his corrupt buddy Garces on the sideline turn a blind eye.

[Collapse2005]

Barrett had no excuse, he lead with a shoulder to the face in a tackle. Toner was defending the line as Evans was diving head first to score a try so there is mitigating circumstances there. They arent that similar. Toner trying to stop a try Barrett trying to hit someone in the face.

[Guest]

Toner charges his shoulder full force into the head of Evans. Toner should be done for at least 6 weeks and probably more.

[Guest]

[Collapse2005]

Toner charges his shoulder full force into the head of Evans. Toner should be done for at least 6 weeks and probably more.

Ha, I think you might be feeling a little aggrieved over Barretts deliberate shoulder to head incident?

[Guest]

Guns, are you not concerned about rugby player welfare? Do you not see how Toner completely wipes out Evan’s head. Very dangerous. Toner is a dirty thug.

[No 7&1/2]

Again you go too far to call reds corrupt but there does seem andirectice to the cutting officers to not look too closely. The toner incident from that short clip from 1 angle looks like it should be cited but barrett's was worse. I've said biggar, may and Kearney should all have been up in front of a panel.

[maestegmafia]

Again you go too far to call reds corrupt but there does seem andirectice to the cutting officers to not look too closely. The toner incident from that short clip from 1 angle looks like it should be cited but barrett's was worse. I've said biggar, may and Kearney should all have been up in front of a panel.

Biggar and Kearney weren’t playing on Saturday, have they done something in training that deserves a citing?

[Taylorman]

but alas, nufg...

[LondonTiger]

Again you go too far to call reds corrupt but there does seem andirectice to the cutting officers to not look too closely. The toner incident from that short clip from 1 angle looks like it should be cited but barrett's was worse. I've said biggar, may and Kearney should all have been up in front of a panel.

Biggar and Kearney weren’t playing on Saturday, have they done something in training that deserves a citing?

!!!!!!!

This is an "issue" 7.5 has been concerned with for a few weeks, feeling players from pretty much all teams have gotten away with things that should have been reviewed.

Biggar - something in the second game v England. Did not see the game so cannot comment Warburton apparently suggested Biggar was lucky.
May - led with forearm when Murray tried to tackle him. Made contact with his shoulder to Murray's head. Probably got away with it as he was the ball carrier.
Kearney - attempted tackle on Curry that connects quite firmly with the head. Gets away with it as Curry gives the try scoring pass.

[Old Man]

Contact with the head whether accidental or deliberate is going to make a big impact this World Cup.

Then there is the inconsistency with which these incidents are dealt with.

[No 7&1/2]

Yup. Those were the incidents LT. Those 3 in the WC will be cracked down on and at least cited or reviewed more thoroughly in the game. Shouldn't matter that these are warm ups but I cant help but feel that this has been the case.

[maestegmafia]

Again you go too far to call reds corrupt but there does seem andirectice to the cutting officers to not look too closely. The toner incident from that short clip from 1 angle looks like it should be cited but barrett's was worse. I've said biggar, may and Kearney should all have been up in front of a panel.

Biggar and Kearney weren’t playing on Saturday, have they done something in training that deserves a citing?

!!!!!!!

This is an "issue" 7.5 has been concerned with for a few weeks, feeling players from pretty much all teams have gotten away with things that should have been reviewed.

Biggar - something in the second game v England. Did not see the game so cannot comment Warburton apparently suggested Biggar was lucky.
May - led with forearm when Murray tried to tackle him. Made contact with his shoulder to Murray's head. Probably got away with it as he was the ball carrier.
Kearney - attempted tackle on Curry that connects quite firmly with the head. Gets away with it as Curry gives the try scoring pass.

Oh I see...! Thanks for clearing that I up. I hadn’t read his previous concerns.

[Collapse2005]

Looks like Toner hasn't made Ireland's RWC squad anyway.

[maestegmafia]

So re-match this weekend. Apparently a strong side to be selected by both teams.

I’m guessing for Wales that is:-

1. N Smith
2. K Owens
3. T Francis
4. A Beard
5. AW Jones
6. A Wainwright
7. J Tipuric
8. R Moriarty
9. G Davies
10. D Biggar
11. G North
12. H Parkes
13. J Davies
14. J Adams
15. L Willams

16. E Dee
17. W Jones
18. D Lewis
19. J Ball
20. J Navidi
21. T Williams
22. R Patchell
23. L Halfpenny

[RiscaGame]

It seems like all the talk is that Patchell will start on Saturday. Certainly worth seeing how it goes with him starting and Biggar doing his cameo again.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Moriarty not feature again and given his lack of action, I would maybe expect Tomos Williams to start. I wouldn't be surprised to see people like Rhys Carre start again either.

[maestegmafia]

The press quote Gats and Schmidt as saying they’ll play their strongest teams.

Some difficult calls to decide who ours is particularly at blindside and lock.

[carpet baboon]

Strongest team is quite subjective is t it.
Strongest on past performance?
Strongest in training?
Strongest for the new game plan?
Strongest singing voices?

[maestegmafia]

Strongest team is quite subjective is t it.
Strongest on past performance?
Strongest in training?
Strongest for the new game plan?
Strongest singing voices?

All welsh teams are strong singers.

[carpet baboon]

Strongest team is quite subjective is t it.
Strongest on past performance?
Strongest in training?
Strongest for the new game plan?
Strongest singing voices?

All welsh teams are strong singers.

That is true. But without Mike Phillips your and Rhys Webb your down on the model looks department

[maestegmafia]

Strongest team is quite subjective is t it.
Strongest on past performance?
Strongest in training?
Strongest for the new game plan?
Strongest singing voices?

All welsh teams are strong singers.

That is true. But without Mike Phillips your and Rhys Webb your down on the model looks department

I recommend you google Rhys Carre and consider editing your post my friend...!

[SecretFly]

Strongest team is quite subjective is t it.
Strongest on past performance?
Strongest in training?
Strongest for the new game plan?
Strongest singing voices?

All welsh teams are strong singers.

Oh here we go...Jack Hawkins time again:

"You're all going to Die!"

[maestegmafia]

Strongest team is quite subjective is t it.
Strongest on past performance?
Strongest in training?
Strongest for the new game plan?
Strongest singing voices?

All welsh teams are strong singers.

Oh here we go...Jack Hawkins time again:

"You're all going to Die!"

Zulu?

[robbo277]

Again you go too far to call reds corrupt but there does seem andirectice to the cutting officers to not look too closely. The toner incident from that short clip from 1 angle looks like it should be cited but barrett's was worse. I've said biggar, may and Kearney should all have been up in front of a panel.

Biggar and Kearney weren’t playing on Saturday, have they done something in training that deserves a citing?

!!!!!!!

This is an "issue" 7.5 has been concerned with for a few weeks, feeling players from pretty much all teams have gotten away with things that should have been reviewed.

Biggar - something in the second game v England. Did not see the game so cannot comment Warburton apparently suggested Biggar was lucky.
May - led with forearm when Murray tried to tackle him. Made contact with his shoulder to Murray's head. Probably got away with it as he was the ball carrier.
Kearney - attempted tackle on Curry that connects quite firmly with the head. Gets away with it as Curry gives the try scoring pass.

Biggar incident: https://www.rugbydump.com/news/that-dan-biggar-tackle-on-maro-itoje-that-miraculously-escaped-punishment/

I'm not 100% on the new contact with the head protocols, but it looks like a yellow card to me. If it is a red it's low end.

[maestegmafia]

Again you go too far to call reds corrupt but there does seem andirectice to the cutting officers to not look too closely. The toner incident from that short clip from 1 angle looks like it should be cited but barrett's was worse. I've said biggar, may and Kearney should all have been up in front of a panel.

Biggar and Kearney weren’t playing on Saturday, have they done something in training that deserves a citing?

!!!!!!!

This is an "issue" 7.5 has been concerned with for a few weeks, feeling players from pretty much all teams have gotten away with things that should have been reviewed.

Biggar - something in the second game v England. Did not see the game so cannot comment Warburton apparently suggested Biggar was lucky.
May - led with forearm when Murray tried to tackle him. Made contact with his shoulder to Murray's head. Probably got away with it as he was the ball carrier.
Kearney - attempted tackle on Curry that connects quite firmly with the head. Gets away with it as Curry gives the try scoring pass.

Biggar incident: https://www.rugbydump.com/news/that-dan-biggar-tackle-on-maro-itoje-that-miraculously-escaped-punishment/

I'm not 100% on the new contact with the head protocols, but it looks like a yellow card to me. If it is a red it's low end.

Any footage of the incident..? I don’t remember it. Though the twitter posts by Alex Hudson and Toby Baker are very compelling.

[Collapse2005]

I dont think Biggars tackle was that bad. He wrapped his arms and then rode Itoje like a donkey.

[LondonTiger]

Strongest team is quite subjective is t it.
Strongest on past performance?
Strongest in training?
Strongest for the new game plan?
Strongest singing voices?

All welsh teams are strong singers.

That is true. But without Mike Phillips your and Rhys Webb your down on the model looks department

I recommend you google Rhys Carre and consider editing your post my friend...!

 Because stood next to Carre even Francis looks like a supermodel?

[robbo277]

Any footage of the incident..? I don’t remember it. Though the twitter posts by Alex Hudson and Toby Baker are very compelling.

Yes, at the bottom of the page on that link.



There's contact with the head as the image shows. I don't understand why Biggar jumped when making the tackle, but it was a proper attempt at a tackle (i.e. arms wrapping) and I don't think he deliberately tried to club Itoje in the head.

Looking at the high tackle framework I'd say:
High tackle (not a shoulder charge)
The high contact was with the tackler's arm (not shoulder or head)
The contact was with the head/neck (not a seatbelt tackle)
There was a low degree of danger (although the tackler left the ground, there was no swinging arm)

So a yellow card per the framework. Therefore not really worthy of a ban if we're talking about citings.

[RiscaGame]

During the game coverage, Warburton said shoulder to the head with force (or similar) and that was his reasoning why Biggar was lucky not to be red carded. Obviously following the new framework, he's wrong and hence why it wasn't cited (as mentioned by Robbo above).

[RiscaGame]

I haven't watched the game back from the weekend (and given the result probably won't rush to ), but was it mentioned with Toner how it could've been a penalty try? Just from that clip I've seen, it does seem like we may score if it hadn't have been for the challenge.

[Guest]

You've got to whack the big 'uns a bit harder or they won't go down! Biggar on a 2nd row colossus like Itoje? C'mon! He needed to jump him and ride him like a donkey (nicely put Collapse!) or he would have been swatted away like a fly.

You have to think of player safety..... Biggar's!

[LondonTiger]

The still used gives the misleading impression that Itoje is falling into contact. He is actually at his full height when Biggar leaps into the air. Really not sure why Biggar does that unless he wanted a piggy-back, but even so while contact is quite clearly made with the head and by jumping in the air it is most definitely reckless, the amount of contact means that it was Yellow card at worst. Certainly not a red. How it was not penalised I have no idea.

[maestegmafia]

Any footage of the incident..? I don’t remember it. Though the twitter posts by Alex Hudson and Toby Baker are very compelling.

Yes, at the bottom of the page on that link.



There's contact with the head as the image shows. I don't understand why Biggar jumped when making the tackle, but it was a proper attempt at a tackle (i.e. arms wrapping) and I don't think he deliberately tried to club Itoje in the head.

Looking at the high tackle framework I'd say:
High tackle (not a shoulder charge)
The high contact was with the tackler's arm (not shoulder or head)
The contact was with the head/neck (not a seatbelt tackle)
There was a low degree of danger (although the tackler left the ground, there was no swinging arm)

So a yellow card per the framework. Therefore not really worthy of a ban if we're talking about citings.

Ha ha ha

That’s one of the worst tackles I've ever seen, what was he thinking? It’s like he was trying to get a piggyback ride from Itoje....

Not sure there is any need for a citing other than pure comedy value. Foxy must have been giggling helplessly.

Note to kids:- they come down faster if you tackle their ankles, if you want a piggyback ask after the game is over. Ha ha ha

[Guest]

I haven't watched the game back from the weekend (and given the result probably won't rush to ), but was it mentioned with Toner how it could've been a penalty try? Just from that clip I've seen, it does seem like we may score if it hadn't have been for the challenge.

Really?! If Toner hadn't done his shoulder charge it wouldn't have changed the play, IMO. The ball would still have been placed down on the ground and we'd still need to recycle and get it out. There was no guarantee we'd make something from it. And I don't think our player (was it Rob Evans?) would have been able to reach out and touch down if you remove Toner from the equation.

[Guest]

You've got to whack the big 'uns a bit harder or they won't go down!  Biggar on a 2nd row colossus like Itoje?  C'mon!  He needed to jump him and ride him like a donkey (nicely put Collapse!) or he would have been swatted away like a fly.  

You have to think of player safety..... Biggar's!

I actually think Biggar has looked up and thought "F*ck, it's Itoje! I'm going to have to do a super human hit/tackle to get him down" and then ended up jumping him!

[robbo277]

Yeah it was comically poor but not overly dangerous.

To be honest if I did that I'd feel aggrieved to get a yellow, let alone a red. But we had a referee come and ref one of our live training sessions the other day and there were a number of incidents he said would have been yellow cards which I personally disagreed with or felt would be harsh - so this is probably another of them.

[robbo277]

I haven't watched the game back from the weekend (and given the result probably won't rush to ), but was it mentioned with Toner how it could've been a penalty try? Just from that clip I've seen, it does seem like we may score if it hadn't have been for the challenge.

Really?!  If Toner hadn't done his shoulder charge it wouldn't have changed the play, IMO.  The ball would still have been placed down on the ground and we'd still need to recycle and get it out.  There was no guarantee we'd make something from it.  And I don't think our player (was it Rob Evans?) would have been able to reach out and touch down if you remove Toner from the equation.

If you tackle someone illegally and it's a penalty, to consider if it was a penalty try I think you have to consider what would have happened if the player was not there, not what would have happened had the player made a legal tackle. In which case, if you gave a penalty against Toner in that incident then you would have to consider "were Toner not there, would Evans(?) have scored?" Basically the mitigation against a penalty try would be if there was sufficient cover from other defenders.

[Guest]

I haven't watched the game back from the weekend (and given the result probably won't rush to ), but was it mentioned with Toner how it could've been a penalty try? Just from that clip I've seen, it does seem like we may score if it hadn't have been for the challenge.

Really?!  If Toner hadn't done his shoulder charge it wouldn't have changed the play, IMO.  The ball would still have been placed down on the ground and we'd still need to recycle and get it out.  There was no guarantee we'd make something from it.  And I don't think our player (was it Rob Evans?) would have been able to reach out and touch down if you remove Toner from the equation.

If you tackle someone illegally and it's a penalty, to consider if it was a penalty try I think you have to consider what would have happened if the player was not there, not what would have happened had the player made a legal tackle. In which case, if you gave a penalty against Toner in that incident then you would have to consider "were Toner not there, would Evans(?) have scored?" Basically the mitigation against a penalty try would be if there was sufficient cover from other defenders.

Yeah, that's what I meant by my last line. If he was not there (removed from the equation) I still don't think Evans could have reached out and scored. I think we'd have needed to recycle and then it's anyone's guess if we should have scored. So no penalty try for me.

[maestegmafia]

Yeah it was comically poor but not overly dangerous.

To be honest if I did that I'd feel aggrieved to get a yellow, let alone a red. But we had a referee come and ref one of our live training sessions the other day and there were a number of incidents he said would have been yellow cards which I personally disagreed with or felt would be harsh - so this is probably another of them.

I hope they lose that tackle from the archives for Biggar sake. It will haunt him for the rest of his rugby days.

Usually a very good defender, must have been dying for a piggyback that afternoon...? Ha ha ha

[BamBam]

During the game coverage, Warburton said shoulder to the head with force (or similar) and that was his reasoning why Biggar was lucky not to be red carded. Obviously following the new framework, he's wrong and hence why it wasn't cited (as mentioned by Robbo above).

I might be wrong, but wasn't Warburton talking about the tackle on Itoje that was defending the tryline rather than this one? I can't find a video of it now, but through a semi drunken stupor I remember thinking there was a possibility of a shoulder to the head

[maestegmafia]

On the positive note for the match the turn over by the Irish in the last welsh attack was a work of art. Wales were really in the ascendence at that point and sniffling the ball away closed the game.

Looking forward to this weekends match in Dublin. Very intrigued to see what the teams will be

[robbo277]

I haven't watched the game back from the weekend (and given the result probably won't rush to ), but was it mentioned with Toner how it could've been a penalty try? Just from that clip I've seen, it does seem like we may score if it hadn't have been for the challenge.

Really?!  If Toner hadn't done his shoulder charge it wouldn't have changed the play, IMO.  The ball would still have been placed down on the ground and we'd still need to recycle and get it out.  There was no guarantee we'd make something from it.  And I don't think our player (was it Rob Evans?) would have been able to reach out and touch down if you remove Toner from the equation.

If you tackle someone illegally and it's a penalty, to consider if it was a penalty try I think you have to consider what would have happened if the player was not there, not what would have happened had the player made a legal tackle. In which case, if you gave a penalty against Toner in that incident then you would have to consider "were Toner not there, would Evans(?) have scored?" Basically the mitigation against a penalty try would be if there was sufficient cover from other defenders.

Yeah, that's what I meant by my last line.  If he was not there (removed from the equation) I still don't think Evans could have reached out and scored.  I think we'd have needed to recycle and then it's anyone's guess if we should have scored.  So no penalty try for me.

Okay, fair assessment then. If it has to go another phase it can't be a penalty try I don't think.

[RiscaGame]

Was just a question from the clip from earlier really. Admittedly it wasn't that clear, but it looked like there was a possibility he could've scored. Not something I am chasing or hinting at, just curious really whether it was mentioned in the coverage at all.

[Collapse2005]

On the positive note for the match the turn over by the Irish in the last welsh attack was a work of art. Wales were really in the ascendence at that point and sniffling the ball away closed the game.

Looking forward to this weekends match in Dublin. Very intrigued to see what the teams will be

Dont remember that, how did they get the turnover?

[RiscaGame]

During the game coverage, Warburton said shoulder to the head with force (or similar) and that was his reasoning why Biggar was lucky not to be red carded. Obviously following the new framework, he's wrong and hence why it wasn't cited (as mentioned by Robbo above).

I might be wrong, but wasn't Warburton talking about the tackle on Itoje that was defending the tryline rather than this one? I can't find a video of it now, but through a semi drunken stupor I remember thinking there was a possibility of a shoulder to the head

I am not sure. I thought they highlighted the piggyback tackle, but it was a few weeks ago now ha.

[Poorfour]

Following the World Rugby framework:

VIDEO SIGNS INDICATING HIGHER DEGREE OF DANGER

Preparation
a- Tackler draws the arm back prior to contact
b- Tackler may leave the ground
c- Arm swings forward prior to contact

Contact
d- Tackler is attempting an active/dominant tackle, as opposed to passive/soak, or “pulling out” of contact
e- Tackler speed and/or acceleration into tackle is high
f- Rigid arm or elbow makes contact with BC head as part of a swinging motion

Follow through
g- Tackler completes the tackle (as opposed to immediate release/withdrawal)

MITIGATING FACTORS
i) Tackler makes a definite attempt to change height in an effort to avoid ball carrier’s head
ii) BC suddenly drops in height (e.g. From earlier tackle, trips/falls, dives to score)
iii) Tackler is unsighted prior to contact
iv) “Reactionary” tackle, immediate release
v) Head contact is indirect (starts elsewhere on the body and then slips or moves up resulting in minor contact to the BC’s head or neck)

(Source: High Tackle Framework)

In Biggar's case, it looked bad in real time from a reverse angle. From the front-on angle it looks even worse:
a - no
b - yes
c - probable: as Biggar runs into the tackle, he swings his leading arm up across Itoje's chest
d - probable: "dominant" tackle is defined above by reference to what it *isn't*, and it is definitely neither a "passive" tackle nor "pulling out of contact" in any way shape or form
e - yes
f - yes - he grabs Itoje's right shoulder with his left arm before jumping up bringing his forearm into Itoje's face
g - yes

i) no. Tackler makes a deliberate effort to change height in order to hit the ball carrier's head
ii) no. Ball carrier does suddenly change height, but as a result of Biggar jumping on his head
iii) no. Ball carrier is unsighted, though, as a result of suddenly getting a forearm in his face
iv) no. Jump is premeditated (otherwise why do it?) and Biggar hangs on for dear life
v) no. Contact does start on the shoulder but then slides up because Biggar jumps, and the contact is prolonged.

The bottom line is that Biggar is moving at high speed, makes contact between his forearm and an upright player's face and jumps into a tackle he has no reason to jump for. It meets between 4 and 6 of World Rugby's criteria for a dangerous tackle. The only real mitigation is that he didn't do Itoje any real damage - but that's not a valid reason for something so clearly against the framework to go without punishment.

I am very disappointed that this tackle - and the other clear head contacts in the warm ups - didn't get cited. World Rugby had an opportunity to demonstrate how the new framework should be applied by putting a number of cases through it in the citing process. Even if most of them hadn't resulted in any further sanction, it would have given refs some clear precedents.

[maestegmafia]

On the positive note for the match the turn over by the Irish in the last welsh attack was a work of art. Wales were really in the ascendence at that point and sniffling the ball away closed the game.

Looking forward to this weekends match in Dublin. Very intrigued to see what the teams will be

Dont remember that, how did they get the turnover?

POM I think. At the breakdown. Game over.

[Collapse2005]

On the positive note for the match the turn over by the Irish in the last welsh attack was a work of art. Wales were really in the ascendence at that point and sniffling the ball away closed the game.

Looking forward to this weekends match in Dublin. Very intrigued to see what the teams will be

Dont remember that, how did they get the turnover?

POM I think. At the breakdown. Game over.

I thought Wales knocked it on, then Ireland got a scrum and closed it out from there.

[BigTrevsbigmac]

On the positive note for the match the turn over by the Irish in the last welsh attack was a work of art. Wales were really in the ascendence at that point and sniffling the ball away closed the game.

Looking forward to this weekends match in Dublin. Very intrigued to see what the teams will be

Dont remember that, how did they get the turnover?

POM I think. At the breakdown. Game over.

I thought Wales knocked it on, then Ireland got a scrum and closed it out from there.

Yep Ringrose tackle forced a knock on.

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