Rugby World Cup - Eligibility, Poaching etc

by No 7&1/2 Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

LondonTiger wrote:
https://rugby365.com/countries/argentina/world-cup-players-born-abroad

To try and avoid other threads getting caught up in discussions about player eligibility and following recent comments from Agustin Pichot and Danny Care I have set up this thread with the above article as a starter. Taken from a NZ website it is as you would expect defensive of NZ. A WoL article would do the same for Wales as would joe.ie etc etc.

Some key things:

Birth does not always tell the full story.

Some examples then given where place of birth is not always relevant.

Number of Foreign-born Players per Country

19 Samoa
16 Tonga
15 USA
14 Japan, Scotland
12 Australia
8 Italy, Wales
7 England
5 France
4 Canada, Fiji, Ireland, New Zealand
1 Georgia, Russia South Africa
0 Argentina, Namibia, Uruguay
The Main Donors
48 New Zealand
18 England
13 Australia, South Africa
8 Tonga
7 Fiji
6 Ireland

It should be noted that these numbers are not necessarily correct. England have 6 players not born in England, the guys writing the article just cannot count.
Now the warning (and I may regret starting this thread):
This is not an excuse to slag off other countries. Please concentrate on your own country as much as possible, after all are you actually losing players you want to keep?

Just seen this from care as well on the bbc:

Players are just pawns. You look at it and is there much loyalty in it? Maybe not," he told Rugby Union Weekly.

"Some are given an easier route than those who worked a fair bit harder."

Subscribe to the BBC's Rugby Union Weekly podcast

Care, 32, has won 84 England caps, but only one of those has come at a World Cup. He was ruled out of the 2011 tournament with a toe injury and was third-choice scrum-half in 2015, making a solitary appearance in England's 60-3 dead-rubber win over Uruguay.

He says that he holds no hard feelings towards Heinz, who moved to Gloucester in 2015 from Canterbury-based Crusaders, but believes the current eligibility rules are unfair.

Second row Devin Toner was overlooked for Ireland's World Cup squad in favour of South Africa-born Jean Kleyn, who served out the required three-year residency period in August.

At 33, Toner is unlikely to be in contention for a place at France 2023

World Rugby vice president Agustin Pichot tweeted that he was sympathetic to Toner's predicament. The governing body has already changed the rule, extending the residency period to five years from the end of 2020.

"I started playing rugby at five in England, dreamed of playing for my country in a World Cup," continued Care.

"You do all the hard work, you stay in England, don't look to play for a club abroad to make more money because you want to play for England and win a World Cup - now that is not going to happen.

"A lot of players who have done well for whatever country and it comes to the World Cup, the pinnacle, where you hope that loyalty and hard work is paid back and it is taken away from you. That is the disappointment. That is why is hurts so much."

You can understand the bitterness but it's a little me me me and somehow being owed. Comes back for me to those comments coming out about how it's a better atmosphere in the england camp these days. Perhaps you dont want those players who perhaps spit their dummy out a little?

by SecretFly Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:20 am

Not many rugby games take place on Ben Nevis in Pro14. How long were Ulster there for, acclimatising?

by LordDowlais Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:23 am

Pal Joey wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:
Old Man wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I thought Biltong was a good poster too, and a decent mod. He wasn't keen on the welsh for sure, but back then this place was a riot with anti-welsh sentiment very commonplace (yep more-so than it is now!).

Old Man I thought you were him too. Are you from Pretoria, if you don't mind me asking?

Bloemfontein

So you're not him. He moved to some acreage just south of Jo'burg. Chatted with him a few times over the phone. Top bloke.

So what did happen to him? Just working on the acreage?

Yeah, planting a few trees and raising lion cubs if I remember correctly. He's still involved in his profession too I think.

I always thought Biltong was a top MOD and a decent member. I have spoken to him via PM. The final straw for him on here was BamBam and No 7&1/2 and their trolling and not being given the support from his fellow MOD's whilst wanting to deal with them.

Sad really. But it is an indictment of how this forum has become.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:12 am

I dont troll. I have to disagree with you about biltong however. His comments about apartheid and threatening to glass posters was distasteful to say the least.

by Old Man Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:14 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I dont troll. I have to disagree with you about biltong however. His comments about apartheid and threatening to glass posters was distasteful to say the least.

So he was a racist?

by No 7&1/2 Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:20 am

Its nowt to do with eligibility but his comments will be still around on here somewhere.
Dan Leo launched a mini twitter thread on France over the weekend. Tonga being picked on and picking up on french flair actually being fijian flair. Also seemingly complaining of French born players representing france as they had heritage elsewhere. Given he considers himself a kiwi and represented Tonga it was quite something to behold.maybe it should just be heritage we go on. How many grandparents are irish etc

by mikey_dragon Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:38 am

Old Man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I dont troll. I have to disagree with you about biltong however. His comments about apartheid and threatening to glass posters was distasteful to say the least.

So he was a racist?

No.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:43 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Its nowt to do with eligibility but his comments will be still around on here somewhere.
Dan Leo launched a mini twitter thread on France over the weekend. Tonga being picked on and picking up on french flair actually being fijian flair. Also seemingly complaining of French born players representing france as they had heritage elsewhere. Given he considers himself a kiwi and represented Tonga it was quite something to behold.maybe it should just be heritage we go on. How many grandparents are irish etc

I do feel that Samoa can feel hard done by from this weekend. The Japanese player (Moore) seemed to have gotten away with a challenge that should have seen a YC and caused a Samoan to have to leave the field for an HIA (failed). It was probably worse than the tackles they had that saw players binned.

by Heaf Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:45 am

Wrong thread LT?

by **LondonTiger** Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:51 am

Heaf wrote:Wrong thread LT?

Probably, but was meaning to continue the theme of PI teams being picked on.

by Heaf Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:59 am

Ah sorry - thought you were continuing the debate on the England thread about high tackles ...

by **LondonTiger** Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:03 pm

Heaf wrote:Ah sorry - thought you were continuing the debate on the England thread about high tackles ...

Nope, definitely derailing a different thread Very Happy

by Heaf Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:05 pm

by LordDowlais Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:12 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I dont troll. I have to disagree with you about biltong however. His comments about apartheid and threatening to glass posters was distasteful to say the least.

You de-railed a whole Wales V South Africa match thread with your pedantry. It was the last one from last Autumn, go and checked, if memory serves me, it even got locked.

by BamBam Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:14 pm

Genuinely don't think I ever crossed a word with Biltong, so no idea what his problem with me would be

Unless its another fairytale conjured up during a particularly heavy session inhaling carpet fumes

by No 7&1/2 Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:17 pm

I dont think you know what trolling is LD but as I'm sure you're not a hypocrite try to keep your comments to eligibility.
I'm 100 per cent a pedant though and only make limited apology for that!

by **Rugby Fan** Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:30 pm

LordDowlais wrote:...I always thought Biltong was a top MOD and a decent member....

I liked Biltong. Not sure about his stint as a mod but it was good to have a South African viewpoint. If I recall the idea of Springbok rugby was core to his identity, and I think he let his emotions off the leash a bit during some of his team's darkest days. A lot of that was related to the topic of this thread, since he felt the slide in fortunes was down to politics and quotas.

I always think rugby in a lot of countries is hostage to the success of the national team. We see signs of that in Australia, and I do wonder what would happen to support in Wales, Ireland, New Zealand or Japan if their Test sides should go through a barren patch. Ironically, sport's the popularity in the Pacific Islands so far seems little affected by their lack of success at Test level. Players are still attracted to the rugby for the personal opportunities it can offer.

by **RiscaGame** Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:50 pm

I've deleted my previous post. I think my memory of Biltong might've been confused, having read the previous posts I have seen on his profile. So if he saw that, I apologise.

I wouldn't say I agreed with his style as a mod still, but that's a pretty difficult job I guess.

by mikey_dragon Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:57 pm

You must have been thinking of Notch, the Ulster-biased mod Wink

. No backchat to Ulster posters was allowed - it should be noted that they're the most one-eyed of the Irish boxing

by **LondonTiger** Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:13 pm

BamBam wrote:Genuinely don't think I ever crossed a word with Biltong, so no idea what his problem with me would be

Unless its another fairytale conjured up during a particularly heavy session inhaling carpet fumes

All Posters,

Not sure who first brought up the issue of running a carpet business as it seems to have bounced around this board for a long time, often in Welsh internecine fighting. It should be obvious to all that the target gets wound up by it and that many people use it to try and get a rise. So, unless the target is using their employment to justify a point, I would recommend that people stop bringing it up.

BamBam,

This use was especially pointed and unnecessary - drawing attention away from the point you wished to make.

by BamBam Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:43 pm

Perhaps the member in question shouldn't accuse me of driving posters away from the board based on nothing other than his own imagination, then I wouldn't have to think of plausible reasons for said weird imagination

by Guest Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:51 pm

I don't think people should pile into LD the way they do. There's a sinister edge that underlays these comments. We can't just sweep it under the rug!

by **LondonTiger** Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:52 pm

The Oracle wrote:I don't think people should pile into LD the way they do. There's a sinister edge that underlays these comments. We can't just sweep it under the rug!

by SecretFly Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:09 pm

The Oracle wrote:I don't think people should pile into LD the way they do. There's a sinister edge that underlays these comments. We can't just sweep it under the rug!

Now that's the kinda Wum that keeps people who enjoy funny Wumers on site!

by Guest Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:48 pm

Old Man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I dont troll. I have to disagree with you about biltong however. His comments about apartheid and threatening to glass posters was distasteful to say the least.

So he was a racist?

2 minute response time. Are you sssssuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrreeeeee you're not Biltong?

by Guest Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:53 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Its nowt to do with eligibility but his comments will be still around on here somewhere.
Dan Leo launched a mini twitter thread on France over the weekend. Tonga being picked on and picking up on french flair actually being fijian flair. Also seemingly complaining of French born players representing france as they had heritage elsewhere. Given he considers himself a kiwi and represented Tonga it was quite something to behold.maybe it should just be heritage we go on. How many grandparents are irish etc

Dan Leo's Samoan. Half Samoan, I believe. Shame about what he came out with on twitter - posting the HQs as if that's going to get you anywhere. Who's the audience? Whose minds are you trying to change? France had 2 Fijians in their backline, I believe. Tonga have never been known for flair - always the head-threatening, bone-shattering tackle.

If there's any team that profits from PIs while giving little back, it's France, though, so can understand the emotional furstration. To lose by 2 points...yeah. It's just - remember that Samoan player in 2011 complaining about scheduling? I see a point there. I'd be livid, cbecause Samoa were class then, and pushed Wales and SA close in the groups with bad turnarounds. Dan Leo's not a player. I don't really see the same excuse to lose sight of what you're trying to do for the sake of making a hamfisted political point. It's stupid comparing France to Tonga in any systemic way. Pointless.

by Guest Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:55 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:If I recall the idea of Springbok rugby was core to his identity, and I think he let his emotions off the leash a bit during some of his team's darkest days. A lot of that was related to the topic of this thread, since he felt the slide in fortunes was down to politics and quotas.

All fair and reasonable points, and I liked Biltong as well. Added difference. No doubt he's happier with the state of his team now compared to 2 years ago.

by Guest Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:57 pm

Agreed. Top WUM from Oracle. But the carpet comments are a bit odd and harsh. 'He deserved me trashing his business and life as he said somethng mean'. Oh, right...na.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:57 pm

Samoan. Quite right, not tongan.

by Brendan Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:17 pm

miaow wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Its nowt to do with eligibility but his comments will be still around on here somewhere.
Dan Leo launched a mini twitter thread on France over the weekend. Tonga being picked on and picking up on french flair actually being fijian flair. Also seemingly complaining of French born players representing france as they had heritage elsewhere. Given he considers himself a kiwi and represented Tonga it was quite something to behold.maybe it should just be heritage we go on. How many grandparents are irish etc

Dan Leo's Samoan. Half Samoan, I believe. Shame about what he came out with on twitter - posting the HQs as if that's going to get you anywhere. Who's the audience? Whose minds are you trying to change? France had 2 Fijians in their backline, I believe. Tonga have never been known for flair - always the head-threatening, bone-shattering tackle.

If there's any team that profits from PIs while giving little back, it's France, though, so can understand the emotional furstration. To lose by 2 points...yeah. It's just - remember that Samoan player in 2011 complaining about scheduling? I see a point there. I'd be livid, cbecause Samoa were class then, and pushed Wales and SA close in the groups with bad turnarounds. Dan Leo's not a player. I don't really see the same excuse to lose sight of what you're trying to do for the sake of making a hamfisted political point. It's stupid comparing France to Tonga in any systemic way. Pointless.

How can you say France profit the most and give nothing back. Who is paying the PIs the best wage for their services. Have they capped more players born on the islands than NZ/Oz in the last 10/20 years. I would say the wages alone that make their way back to the Islands more than makes up for a few players.

How many PI born players play domestic in NZ/Oz/Japan and are in their home country squad v in the country they moved too. If you expand it out by league which league has the most internationals players playing at the WC that are not from there. So all the Tongan players who were born in NZ don't count or Nambians born in SA. Players like Mcginty with the USA not English playing in England or Bill Mata. I think we would find that SR wouldn't be doing as well as it thinks while England and France would be top (maybe MLR would beat them). Super Rugby and in turn SANZAAR only care about themselves and if you are going to play for one of those teams declare your desire to play for the host nation.

The PIs are a T2 nations that T1s don't care about. They will use them for their own gain. If the WL had of been down to the 6Ns telling SANZAAR we will do it at 10 teams and by the way we want Japan instead of Argentina the other 3 nations would of agreed they just wanted the money.

by Old Man Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:39 pm

I think we would find that SR wouldn't be doing as well as it thinks while England and France would be top (maybe MLR would beat them). Super Rugby and in turn SANZAAR only care about themselves and if you are going to play for one of those teams declare your desire to play for the host nation.

Super Rugby is not doing well financially or otherwise. New Zealand is dominating the tournament, next year the Sunwolves are out and the format goes back to single round robin.

The reason why SANZAAR is seen to only be caring about themselves is because they are losing six-love to the European unions, they cannot pay competitive salaries and the geographic locations of the teams are thousands of miles apart.

The players are run into the ground, the unions bow down to the broadcasters simply to make a buck. So no, things aren’t going as well as you think they think it is going.

by Brendan Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:46 pm

The problem that NZ faces is the same problem that the PIs face.

Their players are moving aboard and taking their kids with them as they take up lucrative contracts up North. Some of these players are then staying around enjoying the lifestyle and better paid jobs that are more available (more paying coaching jobs in Rugby in France or England than in OZ+NZ+PIs combinded)

Their kids then grow up as French or English or Welsh. They then start turning out for Their country not their parents one. NZ currently are doing nothing to fix their problems but see themselves as different from the PIs but they aren't. In 10 years time the 3 French leagues and 2 English could have plenty of the best of the SH up and coming players mixed in with the locals. If the top 30 clubs in France had 30 locals and 10 Non French they would still have 900 locals and 300 SH

Europe has 10 of the top 20 nations. In T2 there are professional leagues in Georgia, Rominia, Spain and Russia to different levels. Because of the closeness it would be easy enough to make the Pro14 bigger or a new league. The 6N would make more money from scrapping the Summer Tours and AIs and playing the reverse Leg of the 6N in October.

There is the talent in Europe to sustain 10 teams. Excluding the 7 teams that have been in the last 4 u20s you have Portugal, Spain and Rominia who are all better than Russia. You then have Germany Belgium and the Netherlands who are improving.

by Guest Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:48 pm

We’ve always been a cultural melting pot in the UK, Tman. We’ve had many waves of immigration over the years. From the West Indies, Ireland, Italy, India/Pakistan/Bangladesh, more recently places like Poland, etc. It’s why you see so many different looking people in our teams. So I don’t think ‘we’ll regret our kids not making the teams because of outsiders’, as you put it. Our teams are full of children of immigrants and that gives us a great cultural diversity. I haven’t heard one single grumble about the likes of Itoje, Monye, etc. being in the England teams over the years, for example.

by Guest Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:49 pm

Has his message been deleted?!

by Collapse2005 Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:40 pm

The Oracle wrote:We’ve always been a cultural melting pot in the UK, Tman. We’ve had many waves of immigration over the years. From the West Indies, Ireland, Italy, India/Pakistan/Bangladesh, more recently places like Poland, etc. It’s why you see so many different looking people in our teams. So I don’t think ‘we’ll regret our kids not making the teams because of outsiders’, as you put it. Our teams are full of children of immigrants and that gives us a great cultural diversity. I haven’t heard one single grumble about the likes of Itoje, Monye, etc. being in the England teams over the years, for example.

The underwoods, Victor Ubogo, Brian Moore, Chris Oti(swing low).

by **Rugby Fan** Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:05 pm

Brendan wrote:....Their kids then grow up as French or English or Welsh...

Michael Lynagh's son, Louis, sounds more English than me, and has been through the English schools set-up. He joined his dad on the House of Rugby, so you can hear him him talk about his playing future.

He left his allegiances open but his father has said he'd prefer Australia to come first, so it would be a surprise if didn't follow Ross Moriarty rather than Zach Mercer with his final choice. Under current Australian selection policy, he'd have to move there for a Test career, though.

by Brendan Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:27 am

We know in the next 10 years or so as the structure gets more professional you are going to see a scouting network set up in T2 places and the SH to bring stars up to Europe (maybe give the father a job like in soccer so they happen to be living in the club area)

Craven week in SA won't be about SR team contracts but NH contracts (though it might be already).

NZ & OZ are fighting to keep hold of their current players missing the point that the current rules already limit future players. What kid is going to move back to OZ for half the money to play for a country he does know.

by LordDowlais Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:38 am

Brendan wrote:We know in the next 10 years or so as the structure gets more professional you are going to see a scouting network set up in T2 places and the SH to bring stars up to Europe (maybe give the father a job like in soccer so they happen to be living in the club area)

You do know this is already happening do you ?

Some of what the French have been doing is almost breaching human rights, also Australia have been doing it for ages as well.

by SecretFly Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:42 am

Breaching human rights? Bit strong, is it?

by LordDowlais Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:44 am

Have a read of these:-

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/fiji/11854929/Rugby-uncovered-Despicable-abuse-of-young-Pacific-talent-is-huge-stain-on-game.html

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/87787275/pacific-islanders-face-exploitation-in-french-rugby--grenoble-coach

https://www.varsity.co.uk/sport/13864

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/top-14-clubs-pressuring-pacific-islanders-to-miss-rugby-world-cup/617164#

by LordDowlais Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:45 am

SecretFly wrote:Breaching human rights? Bit strong, is it?

read the links above and you tell me if it's a "bit strong". thumbsup

by SecretFly Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:52 am

LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Breaching human rights? Bit strong, is it?

read the links above and you tell me if it's a "bit strong".

Using leverages to stop players from declaring for International duty....yes, despicable.

But trying to entice young players somewhere by giving their fathers jobs, well cheeky but hardly impacting a thing called human rights.

So my comment was directed at that bit, Lord

by Old Man Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:53 am

That is rather sad.

by LordDowlais Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:06 am

SecretFly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Breaching human rights? Bit strong, is it?

read the links above and you tell me if it's a "bit strong".

Using leverages to stop players from declaring for International duty....yes, despicable.

But trying to entice young players somewhere by giving their fathers jobs, well cheeky but hardly impacting a thing called human rights.

So my comment was directed at that bit, Lord

“The Islanders are being preyed upon, absolutely,” Nichol said. “There are some despicable individuals who capitalise on their desperation to make a better life for themselves and their families.” wrote:

“There are so many flaky agents around,” Ryan says. “Rugby league is doing some disgraceful things in Fiji – sending players one-way tickets to Australia on visas that don’t allow them to play professional sport, so they are immediately breaking the law. Then they outstay their visa, get deported and they are banned from going overseas ever again for work they might have done in the future. That is effectively a life sentence.” wrote:

“Lots of clubs are purely by numbers. Chuck them all in the same house, pay them €2-300 a month on short-term contracts. In six months’ time, get rid of most of them and leave one. They do that all the time.” wrote:

The Telegraph has been provided with several case studies by the IRPA that highlight this growing trend. In one case, a player did not receive 11 months’ salary, leaving him with no money to buy food, toiletries or even a blanket to sleep under. In another, a former international faced the prospect of a criminal conviction for unpaid taxes for which his previous club were liable; only the intervention of the IRPA saved him. Others have their contracts torn up on the flimsiest of pretexts, often leaving individuals penniless in a foreign country. wrote:

Just a few snippets for SF. If you think this is all fine, then fair play to you. But if these were young girls/women being trafficked, under the same circumstances then you would be screaming about human rights.

by SecretFly Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:35 am

Again Lord. Don't inflate my point. If a man is offered a job in another country - (my assumption from the start is under legal conditions; proper visas, following immigration protocols of each nation, by the book as it were).... to perhaps gain usage of a son for sporting causes, then yes cheeky, yes, I'm not in favour of such stunts, and yes they should be monitored .... but not breaching the human rights of the father offered the job.

The other situations you outline could be termed human exploitation and a breaching of human rights, but they are an extension of the initial premise of a man being offered a job in another country. It happens all the time.
It only becomes a real issue when actual rights are infringed. But first human right is for the man to be allowed accept the job if he wishes and qualifies under specific immigration rules. That's his initial right

by **Galted** Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:36 am

Old Man wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I thought Biltong was a good poster too, and a decent mod. He wasn't keen on the welsh for sure, but back then this place was a riot with anti-welsh sentiment very commonplace (yep more-so than it is now!).

Old Man I thought you were him too. Are you from Pretoria, if you don't mind me asking?

Bloemfontein

I didn't think that you were Biltong but I'm having my suspicions now, everyone knows the internet hasn't reached Bloemfontein yet.

by Old Man Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:50 am

Galted wrote:
Old Man wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I thought Biltong was a good poster too, and a decent mod. He wasn't keen on the welsh for sure, but back then this place was a riot with anti-welsh sentiment very commonplace (yep more-so than it is now!).

Old Man I thought you were him too. Are you from Pretoria, if you don't mind me asking?

Bloemfontein

I didn't think that you were Biltong but I'm having my suspicions now, everyone knows the internet hasn't reached Bloemfontein yet.

We have dial up connection now , it goes teadlydeedlydee kirrrrr, you’re connected at 108 kb/s

by LordDowlais Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:53 am

SecretFly wrote:Again Lord. Don't inflate my point. If a man is offered a job in another country - (my assumption from the start is under legal conditions; proper visas, following immigration protocols of each nation, by the book as it were).... to perhaps gain usage of a son for sporting causes, then yes cheeky, yes, I'm not in favour of such stunts, and yes they should be monitored .... but not breaching the human rights of the father offered the job.

The other situations you outline could be termed human exploitation and a breaching of human rights, but they are an extension of the initial premise of a man being offered a job in another country. It happens all the time.
It only becomes a real issue when actual rights are infringed. But first human right is for the man to be allowed accept the job if he wishes and qualifies under specific immigration rules. That's his initial right

Firstly, I am not inflating anything, lets just get that one out of the way.

Secondly, I said SOME of the things they do is breaching human rights.

Lastly, like I told you on another thread, I do not know where you are coming from, what you type would incur you are agreeing with me, but the tone of what you are typing would suggest you are looking for an argument with me.

Not all these players have jobs offered to their parents. Most of them are exploited unashamedly and cynically. If these were migrants being brought over to work as slaves, as we all read in the news, then there would be outrage.

by **Galted** Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:54 am

Old Man wrote:
Galted wrote:
Old Man wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I thought Biltong was a good poster too, and a decent mod. He wasn't keen on the welsh for sure, but back then this place was a riot with anti-welsh sentiment very commonplace (yep more-so than it is now!).

Old Man I thought you were him too. Are you from Pretoria, if you don't mind me asking?

Bloemfontein

I didn't think that you were Biltong but I'm having my suspicions now, everyone knows the internet hasn't reached Bloemfontein yet.

We have dial up connection now , it goes teadlydeedlydee kirrrrr, you’re connected at 108 kb/s

I'm shocked, you'll be telling me you have tv next.

Ok then, suspicions successfully averted.

by **LondonTiger** Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:56 am

Wind up radios only.

by Old Man Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:56 am

Galted wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Galted wrote:
Old Man wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I thought Biltong was a good poster too, and a decent mod. He wasn't keen on the welsh for sure, but back then this place was a riot with anti-welsh sentiment very commonplace (yep more-so than it is now!).

Old Man I thought you were him too. Are you from Pretoria, if you don't mind me asking?

Bloemfontein

I didn't think that you were Biltong but I'm having my suspicions now, everyone knows the internet hasn't reached Bloemfontein yet.

We have dial up connection now , it goes teadlydeedlydee kirrrrr, you’re connected at 108 kb/s

I'm shocked, you'll be telling me you have tv next.

Ok then, suspicions successfully averted.

What do you mean? We had tv before we had shoes. Rolling Eyes

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