Bronze - Match Thread - NEW ZEALAND v WALES - 1/11/19 - K/O 09:00 GMT

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Again, making these early for the sake of ease and consistency.

NZ

Team:

1. Joe Moody (44)
2. Dane Coles (68)
3. Nepo Laulala (24)
4. Brodie Retallick (80)
5. Scott Barrett (35)
6. Shannon Frizell (8)
7. Sam Cane (67)
8. Kieran Read - captain (126)
9. Aaron Smith (91)
10. Richie Mo’unga (16)
11. Rieko Ioane (28)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (56)
13. Ryan Crotty (47)
14. Ben Smith (83)
15. Beauden Barrett (82)
16. Liam Coltman (7)
17. Atu Moli (7)
18. Angus Ta'avao (13)
19. Patrick Tuipulotu (29)
20. Matt Todd (24)
21. Brad Weber (4)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (41)
23. Jordie Barrett (16)


WALES

Team:

1. Nicky Smith (Ospreys) (34 Caps)
2. Ken Owens (Scarlets) (72 Caps)
3. Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues) (21 Caps)
4. Adam Beard (Ospreys) (19 Caps)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys) (133 Caps) (CAPT)
6. Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) (71 Caps)
7. James Davies (Scarlets) (7 Caps)
8. Ross Moriarty (Dragons) (40 Caps)
9. Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues) (15 Caps)
10. Rhys Patchell (Scarlets) (18 Caps)
11. Josh Adams (Cardiff Blues) (20 Caps)
12. Owen Watkin (Ospreys) (21 Caps)
13. Jonathan Davies (Scarlets) (80 Caps)
14. Owen Lane (Cardiff Blues) (1 Cap)
15. Hallam Amos (Cardiff Blues) (21 Caps)

Replacements:

16. Elliot Dee (Dragons) (27 Caps)
17. Rhys Carre (Saracens) (4 Caps)
18. Wyn Jones (Scarlets) (21 Caps)
19. Jake Ball (Scarlets) (41 Caps)
20. Aaron Shingler (Scarlets) (25 Caps)
21. Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (50 Caps)
22. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints) (78 Caps)
23. Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets) (24 Caps)

Injury update (Players not considered for selection):

Tomas Francis – Subluxation of left shoulder and will require ongoing assessment
George North – Hamstring injury
Aaron Wainwright – Hamstring injury
Leigh Halfpenny – Concussion​
Liam Williams - Ankle Surgery


Venue: Tokyo
Referee:
AR1:
AR2:
TMO:

[RiscaGame]

Still better than the command of English.

[Taylorman]

Hmm, one third of the words were spelt wrong, another is spelt ‘o’. How hard is it? anyway, we’re used to it.

Anyway, it’s all done. New look ABs next year that’s for sure. They’ll set out to rebuild, learn more lessons as they usually do. The sides are probably closest now than they’ve ever been, all falling over themselves more than playing high standards of rugby, with a England popping its head up above the rest slightly at the moment.

[RiscaGame]

It’s hard to know how to spell each Haka variation name, when it changes every week, I guess.

[Guest]

A few more things as well from this game:

1. We finally saw the Tipuric kick move that Gatland's had in the locker for years - not too dissimilar to the Lloyd Williams infield kick in 2015 by the looks of things. Would have been nice to have seen that in action and not forced.

2. We play almost a completely different game to the ABs. They go forwards, we go lateral. It's almost chalk and cheese. They play like basketball mixed with NFL, we're still playing an outdated form of llateral rugby. If there's one good thing about Pivac's Scarlets it was the ability to attack in short vertical 'channels' with runners on the shoulder, like Moody's try, but really, like NZ attacked/ran all game. That 'different' game also relates to defence, where a 'good' defensive Welsh team just couldnt not get near the physicality and tempo of the ABs. When you consider the leap in standard for players like Lane, comparing Super Rugby or even Mitre 10 and NZ clubs to the Pro14, it's not surprising really. Particularly when it feels like Wales' attack is almost split in horizontal lines across the pitch, whereas England and NZ and a few others really are a 360 degree threat. Weirdly, we actually looked to have the better systems at times, and those systems worked. The pick and go game in the 22 has improved hugely - try v England in Feb, try v SA in the SF, and another try here. Shame it didn't lead to more success. Just need to have a more complete game as Wales really did improve some factors massively over the last 4 years.

3. We had some decent performers in this team. Patchell looked decent in flashes, nice pass for Amos' try to cut out the Kiwi defence. Tomos Williams is class already and him not being injured - which looked a possibility in the summer - was huge. Looks like he has it all and could be a test Lion in 18 months. Josh Adams standing up well and is just a really natural rugby player, good brain on him, Tipuric showing his class at times, Shingler decent from the bench, Dee very good from the bench which is pleasing, and thought all the props did pretty well as well, although Rhys Carre is raw as raw can be and will take time to get consistency. James Davies looking lively as well and one turnover, same as Sam Cane, was par for an openside. Might have a few more caps in him yet depending on what happens to the blindside position and if we go for a Shingler/Wainwright or move Ellis Jenkins/Navidi over there.

4. We actually look half decent when we move the ball but in the last 12 months we've done it in the first quarter v SA (2018) and in moments against Australia and that was it. The warm ups were an opportunity to start again and really develop things, not go for the #1 spot or worry about that nonsense. Losing Howley cannot have helped the attacking confidence and you do wonder if we'd shown a bit more v SA whether we'd be in the final instead.

5. We definitely punch above our weight but with Gatland going it opens the door for a new era, and new way of doing things, and hopefully that's not seen as a threat or a negative and we create a competitive, meritocratic club/regional environment with a bit more rotation and a bit more adaptability and fleibility than we've had in the last 10 years. Everyone, including AWJ, needs to be under threat for their position - we can't let Eddie Butler-esque hubris and romanticism guide the tone of Welsh rugby as it sometimes feels it does from the outside. A bit too much 'but that's our way' and not enough focusing on the fundamentals and adapting and moving on. Really hope Pivac is up to the job.

Weirdly, the next 4 year cycle could be a great one - similar to the mid to late 00s in a way in that no one really has a world class coach at the helm, particularly if Eddie leaves England. We're all in a similar position of building up relatively unproven or not quite top class coaches. Remains to be seen what NZ and Australia will do, but presumably Rennie is going public about the ABs to use as a bargaining chip for Oz, and Foster won't be promoted from within, leaving it open to a number of people, includingSchmidt and Gatland. Less focus on the coaches and more on players and systems from club level - and Wales will need to try and mitigate the stangantion at regional level if that is to happen. Pivac's the man with that job and it's not an easy one.

[Taylorman]

Well I just thought Wales didn’t want to tackle. All the ABs did was get half gaps and they were away with either an offload or slipped pass or the runners ran through untouched.

Beaudy did a simple cut back and ran the whole way. Ben Smith got the ball from standing ten meters out, picked a line and seemed to beat five or six to the line with ease. There was just no line pressure applied and ABs were allowed far more time and space on the ball than vs England last week.

That’s why I say Ireland and a Wales are not there yet. They’re riding off largely home victories, AIs and 6Ns. They’ve edged out Oz, but are definitely 4th and fifth at best.

[Guest]

As I said, not used to facing that kind of rugby, knackered, and a clear physical disadvantage. Even players like Ben Smith looked noticeable bigger and stronger than Amos, Retallick to AWJ, Cane to Cubby, Savea to Tipuric - you can go right through the team. Wales mitigate their physical disavantages, but in a game like this, with the conditions it happens in, they're going to get exposed.

By the sounds of it Wales had been on the wind down already and, with the day less recovery, have probably done f all training, and none of it specific to the ABs. The scoreline is almost bang on to what most people expected in a loose, means-nothing game based on skill and ability. Were this the final, Wales would have played differently. The idea that you're using the 3rd place play off - probably the most meaningless test match any team can play in rugby, moreso than a WC warm up or BaBas match - as a barometer of being 'there yet'...very silly.

I really don't think anyone's arguing Wales an Ireland are the best team in the world, either. Hovering around 3rd with the potential to beat the #1 teams seems to be the standard. The way rugby has gone there's clear value in prioritising that over continual dominance if you want to win the RWC - England have done it where NZ didn't, and SA might even trump England as well.

This is a largely irrelevant argument and feels like more of the same old.

[Taylorman]

Geez I’m glad a 3 vs 4 playoff is a ‘means nothing’ game and a Chicago rugby poster match is something of a triumph. (Psst... I think someone’s priorities are a little mixed up).

Agree with prioritising the World Cup, something we actually did do in 2019, publicly so. The dominance around it just comes with having the better results. An 85% overall win rate over several years is going to give you that, even if it did take a hit this year.

[Guest]

Stop trolling T, ffs...just enjoy the game.

[Taylorman]

Good oh then, we’re done there. Cmon the Boks!

[Collapse2005]

England getting pumped in the scrum

[Collapse2005]

Is du Toit on his way to world player of the year?

[Collapse2005]

come on england

[Sponsored content]