Scotland V England - The Calcutta Cup

by **RDW** Mon 03 Feb 2020, 8:35 am

First topic message reminder :

GUINNESS SIX NATIONS 2020

8 FEB 2020

BT MURRAYFIELD

KICK-OFF 4:45 PM

Past results

2010	13 March	England	15–15	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	63	39	15
2011	13 March	England	22–17	Twickenham	London	64	39	15
2012	4 February	England	6–13	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	65	39	15
2013	2 February	England	38–18	Twickenham	London	66	39	15
2014	8 February	England	0–20	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	67	39	15
2015	14 March	England	25–13	Twickenham	London	68	39	15
2016	6 February	England	9–15^[2]	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	69	39	15
2017	11 March	England	61–21^[3]	Twickenham	London	70	39	15
2018	24 February	Scotland	25–13^[4]	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	70	40	15
2019	16 March	Scotland	38–38	Twickenham	London	70	40	16

Teams

Scotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 3 HP7hDa92HluFnAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC

TBC

Scotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 3 OZiWAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC

Furbank; May, Joseph, Farrell, Daly; Ford, Heinz; M Vunipola, George, Sinckler, Kruis, Itoje, Ludlam, Underhill, Curry

Replacements: Dunn, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Lawes, Earl, Youngs, Devoto

by No 7&1/2 Wed 05 Feb 2020, 2:11 pm

Why would diamond get a say?

by **LondonTiger** Wed 05 Feb 2020, 2:23 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why would diamond get a say?

He has no say in where Eddie plays any Sale player, but has the absolute say on where they play for the club.

by WELL-PAST-IT Wed 05 Feb 2020, 2:25 pm

Khouli Khan wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:...
A lot of this smack talk isnt so much about winding the opposition up as much as getting the players themselves into an aggressive must win mindset. It does look pretty stupid when it doesn't come off, but thats part of how its supposed to instil a must win attitude. I see these comments from Scotland players about them reminding themselves this game matters, and whipping the fans up a bit to get behind their team.
...

I remember reading a book about British troops in Afghanistan and how they would still fix bayonets before an assault. It's not that they actually expect to use them but does certainly build a mindset.

We did expect to use them and we hoped we could get close enough to use them and I can assure you, we used them.

If you've got a bayonet, its another means of killing at your disposal, why wouldn't you expect to use it. It didn't give me a psychological edge personally. I wonder who wrote the book - probably RAF Regt :-)

What regiment KK, my son was in the Royal Engineers out there.

by **RDW** Wed 05 Feb 2020, 2:43 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Why would diamond get a say?

He has no say in where Eddie plays any Sale player, but has the absolute say on where they play for the club.

You'd like to think it is in everyone's best interest that there is joined up thinking between the international coach and a club coach. There's no point Curry being earmarked as a long term number 8 for England if he's hardly ever going to play there for club.

As I said I can't imagine he's goign to play 8 for Sale overly much given their back row options, so it's a strange move from Jones.

by Gooseberry Wed 05 Feb 2020, 2:48 pm

Imagine if we were going into a world.cup with a 12 who's club insist hes a flanker

by **RDW** Wed 05 Feb 2020, 2:49 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Imagine if we were going into a world.cup with a 12 who's club insist hes a flanker

Crazy idea, would never work! Very Happy

by tigertattie Wed 05 Feb 2020, 2:53 pm

RDW wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Imagine if we were going into a world.cup with a 12 who's club insist hes a flanker
Crazy idea, would never work!

Unless that man is named Vernon!

by IanBru Wed 05 Feb 2020, 3:30 pm

tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Imagine if we were going into a world.cup with a 12 who's club insist hes a flanker
Crazy idea, would never work!

Unless that man is named Vernon!

#HePlaysWhereHeWants...

by **RDW** Wed 05 Feb 2020, 3:34 pm

IanBru wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Imagine if we were going into a world.cup with a 12 who's club insist hes a flanker
Crazy idea, would never work!

Unless that man is named Vernon!
#HePlaysWhereHeWants...

You're back Bru!!

That's your first post since hte Pro 14 final - did it take that long to get over??

by lostinwales Wed 05 Feb 2020, 3:38 pm

Watson (~~the English one~~ the one who plays for England) out. He has failed to recover from his calf injury.

Not sure yet if that means another game for Furbank or if the other new winger comes in.

by IanBru Wed 05 Feb 2020, 3:43 pm

RDW wrote:
IanBru wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Imagine if we were going into a world.cup with a 12 who's club insist hes a flanker
Crazy idea, would never work!

Unless that man is named Vernon!
#HePlaysWhereHeWants...
You're back Bru!!

That's your first post since hte Pro 14 final - did it take that long to get over??

Jimbo drove me and the Hagia Sophia there and back from the Toon that day, and I've been in therapy ever since.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 05 Feb 2020, 3:55 pm

Presumably Lost it means the same back 3 and Thorley coming onto the bench?

by TightHEAD Wed 05 Feb 2020, 4:17 pm

I wonder if Eddie will play Curry at 9 this week?

by No 7&1/2 Wed 05 Feb 2020, 6:48 pm

Earl is in the 25 man squad this time so for all the talk of curry at 8 it seems very likely to me we'll see curry, underhill and earl at 8.

by BamBam Wed 05 Feb 2020, 7:01 pm

I hope so, but I think he's going to go with Kruis and Lawes at lock and 6, leaving Curry at 8 and Earl / Ludlam on the bench with Launchbury

Ewels being completely dropped is no surprise

by Geordie Wed 05 Feb 2020, 7:25 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Earl is in the 25 man squad this time so for all the talk of curry at 8 it seems very likely to me we'll see curry, underhill and earl at 8.

Id be WAY happier with that back row

by Gooseberry Wed 05 Feb 2020, 7:29 pm

TightHEAD wrote:I wonder if Eddie will play Curry at 9 this week?

Bens not in the squad. Your lad Watsons injured so he cant cover Loosehead.

Launchberry in for Ewels and Earl for Hill from the previous reduced squad.

by Geordie Wed 05 Feb 2020, 7:32 pm

Surely Hills power would be worth a look.

And what about Willis...why is Jones not watching him?

by 123456789. Wed 05 Feb 2020, 7:46 pm

I'm not remotely convinced by the crisis situation talk coming from England. Losing two games in a row is not a crisis. Especially when one is the World Cup Final and the other is away to France at the Stade De France. I think it could be quite a technical battle, Hastings vs Ford is a battle of classy players. Neither Farrell or Johnson are huge players, and Jones and Jones are strike runners rather than bulldozers. England certainly have the edge on the wings as it stands, if he sticks with Furbank we definitely have the upper hand at full-back. Ali Price is I reckon on slightly better form than Youngs, but Youngs is a much better player. Neither sides are settled in the back-row. I am very worried about the strength of England's front-five especially at the set piece. These matches tend to be slogs and if England turn the scrums into penalty machines that will probably make the difference.

by BamBam Wed 05 Feb 2020, 7:53 pm

Sounds like Steve Diamond shares our opinion on Curry at 8

https://twitter.com/btsportrugby/status/1225134157778518023?s=21

by tigertattie Wed 05 Feb 2020, 7:57 pm

IanBru wrote:
RDW wrote:
IanBru wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Imagine if we were going into a world.cup with a 12 who's club insist hes a flanker
Crazy idea, would never work!

Unless that man is named Vernon!
#HePlaysWhereHeWants...
You're back Bru!!

That's your first post since hte Pro 14 final - did it take that long to get over??
Jimbo drove me and the Hagia Sophia there and back from the Toon that day, and I've been in therapy ever since.

So long as you still have one stone that we can nail to a mast, it’s all good bru

by Geordie Wed 05 Feb 2020, 8:03 pm

BamBam wrote:Sounds like Steve Diamond shares our opinion on Curry at 8

https://twitter.com/btsportrugby/status/1225134157778518023?s=21

I had a feeling he would...

by king_carlos Wed 05 Feb 2020, 8:25 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Surely Hills power would be worth a look.

And what about Willis...why is Jones not watching him?

I can see Hill starting against Italy. I just hope Earl is starting at Murrayfield now he's been retained in the 25 man squad. Hopefully we don't see all 4 locks forced into the 23. Itoje and George had arguably their worst England games so I don't think it's out of question for either to be benched.

1.Genge 2.Cowan-Dickie 3.Sinckler 4.Lawes 5.Kruis 6.Curry 7.Underhill 8.Earl
9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.May 12.Devoto 13.Joseph 14.Thorley 15.Furbank

16.George 17.Vunipola 18.Stuart 19.Itoje 20.Ludlam 21.Heinz 22.Ford 23.Daly

The players are there to pick a much more balanced side with more carriers in the forwards and backs.

by Geordie Wed 05 Feb 2020, 8:36 pm

I would love to see that side But i wont hold my breath.

by majesticimperialman Wed 05 Feb 2020, 9:54 pm

I would not be surprised to see the same team as last week.....give the player a chance to prove it was a blip last week and not the norm.

by lostinwales Wed 05 Feb 2020, 10:13 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:I would not be surprised to see the same team as last week.....give the player a chance to prove it was a blip last week and not the norm.

Cant be exactly the same. No Ewells (left out) and no Tuilagi

by Recwatcher16 Wed 05 Feb 2020, 10:17 pm

Would love to see Devoto and Joseph in midfield, was disappointed when he left for Exeter. May Daly and Thorley as a back three certainly wouldn't be slow.
No concerns on the front five combination the back row mix needs either Earl or Ludlam at 8, but we'll see. Wilson's versatility has been missed.

Actually looking forward to this game as my brother-in-law has got me a ticket and there will be celebratory drinks after, either way....

by Geordie Wed 05 Feb 2020, 11:05 pm

Surely with Manu out we need somone like big Ollie in there to offer some carrying in the midfield.

by yappysnap Thu 06 Feb 2020, 1:19 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
RDW wrote:
I think the issue is he's not a 12! His influence is much more limited when he plays there.

He needs to play 10 IMO.

I thought Ford played an excellent game at 10 against France on the back foot. The kind of one Farrell would be expected to do, great kicks and good defense from him. It made me think maybe we dont need Faz on the pitch all the time.

There's this feeling that he needs to be on the pitch but ultimately Ford is a better 10 and he has had multiple meltdowns in the past 12 months.

You can clearly see that the England players want to impress Farrell. He has an aura about him that earns loyalty - however he is too fired up to make being the captain work. It should be Ford or Farrell - but that then means Eddie has to solve the issue of who will play in the centre. I am biased but view Ford as a better 10 than Farrell but my opinion is worth diddly squat.

by yappysnap Thu 06 Feb 2020, 1:27 am

Humm I was saying that Ford played a really good kicking game against France and was definitely good enough to start without Faz at 12.

by **RDW** Thu 06 Feb 2020, 8:07 am

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/steve-diamond-has-had-his-say-on-englands-curry-at-8-experiment

Completely unsurprising response from Steve.

by king_carlos Thu 06 Feb 2020, 8:22 am

yappysnap wrote:Humm I was saying that Ford played a really good kicking game against France and was definitely good enough to start without Faz at 12.

Ford has been brilliant for Tigers and very good for England for 2 years. Vitally his goal kicking has become far more consistent. 84% strike rate last season.

With Manu, Nowell and Cokanasiga injured we need carriers in the backs though. Thorley is a big bloke so can offer that better than Daly on the wing but realistically I hope that another carrier is in the midfield and Faz won't be dropped hence I benched Ford in the team I posted yesterday.

I've long been a fan of JJ. His performances when England had that huge unbeaten run were fantastic and he was the defensive lynchpin in the England side back then. I don't think he's looked the same player post injury though. His dynamic footwork and acceleration of old are now solid rather than spectacular. I hope he proves me wrong but I think Dingwall, Marchant and Ollie Lawrence will come into the frame at 13 fairly quickly.

by Khouli Khan Thu 06 Feb 2020, 8:24 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
RDW wrote:
I think the issue is he's not a 12! His influence is much more limited when he plays there.

He needs to play 10 IMO.

There's this feeling that he needs to be on the pitch but ultimately Ford is a better 10 and he has had multiple meltdowns in the past 12 months.

You can clearly see that the England players want to impress Farrell. He has an aura about him that earns loyalty - however he is too fired up to make being the captain work. It should be Ford or Farrell - but that then means Eddie has to solve the issue of who will play in the centre. I am biased but view Ford as a better 10 than Farrell but my opinion is worth diddly squat.

I'm not sure I can agree with that. Farrell is a good player but also comes across as a man 'talking a good game' on the pitch, in post match interviews, he is fairly quiet and level headed - but he's trotting out a well-rehearsed party line and of late even he has started to look like he doesn't believe in it. I don't doubt he's respected by the other players - he's the Captain after all, so they're unlikely to ignore his direction.

Aura? No - look no further than the likes of Martin Johnson for players who had an aura about them. Farrell comes across as monotone and unremarkable. To me anyway.

by BamBam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 8:49 am

Ludlam to 6 and Lawes to lock is the rumour from the usual sources

by Soul Requiem Thu 06 Feb 2020, 9:06 am

BamBam wrote:Ludlam to 6 and Lawes to lock is the rumour from the usual sources

Slightly better, you'd expect to get some big gains at the breakdown with that back row.

by BamBam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 9:39 am

Yep, agreed. I actually like Ludlam as a carrier too, he seems to fix defenders and manage to get an extra couple of yards more often than not

Would mean Kruis and Earl off the bench which offers decent impact in that area too

by TightHEAD Thu 06 Feb 2020, 9:42 am

"We are emotionally there. They hate us and we hate them. There is no difference," he said.

"We're revved up. We want to be brutal. We don't want to give them an inch to breathe. We're coming for them."

Its WAR...............

OK Lewis calm down fella. Just go out there and play the bloody game and win.

by lostinwales Thu 06 Feb 2020, 9:45 am

Suddenly more media interest in Ludlam which backs up the suggestion he'll start

by Geordie Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:00 am

Can they not just play him at 8 though...

6 Curry
7 Underhill
8 Ludlum

Not Curry at 8!!

by BamBam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:07 am

Outside of the scrum does it make much difference which shirts they are in

Main reason I wanted a proper 8 in the side was for the carrying side of things, if its going to be those 3 then doesn't really matter - I assume Curry has had the most practice controlling at the base!

by Geordie Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:09 am

No but IN the scrum it does.

Ludlum has more experience at the base of the scum i believe.

However ideally i still think Ludlum is a flanker...and we need an actual 8 there.

by TightHEAD Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:12 am

No8 is a very overrated position, everyone knows the Tighthead Prop is the key to all good teams. Wink

by Soul Requiem Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:15 am

I do believe that Ludlum has played a few times at 8 for Saints.

by BamBam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:24 am

I stand corrected. Always thought he was a flanker through and through! Not that that's stopped Curry playing there

by stub Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:36 am

TightHEAD wrote:No8 is a very overrated position, everyone knows the Tighthead Prop is the key to all good teams.

Lol TightHEAD!!

by Geordie Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:37 am

i think Ludlum is more experienced at 8 than Curry...but why are we even debating this??

Play an 8 at 8 and flankers at flanker.

by BamBam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:37 am

Team is out

Mako
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Kruis
Ludlam
Underhill
Curry
Heinz
Ford
Daly
Farrell (c)
Joseph
May
Furbank

Dunn
Genge
Stuart
Launchbury
Lawes
Earl
Youngs
Devoto

by BamBam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:40 am

Heinz starting, Ewels bombed out, 6-2 split on the bench, Lawes back to lock - the only quibbles are Curry at 8 and the balance from 10-12-13 for me as I prefer a punchier carrier

Would have been harsh to drop Ford and Farrell is always starting so not many options there I guess

Edit - I'm a twonk and can't read Kruis is starting and Lawes is on the bench

by formerly known as Sam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:40 am

TightHEAD wrote:No8 is a very overrated position, everyone knows the Tighthead Prop is the key to all good teams.

I believe Matt Hampson gave an interview a few years back that described the tighthead as the cornerstone of every team. Not that he has any bias obviously...

by lostinwales Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:41 am

Lawes twice? I know the man works hard but..

Tough on Marler.

Kruis starting apparently.

Odd subs - full front 5

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