ENGLAND v WALES - Match Thread / Build up - 7/3/2020

[TightHEAD]

First topic message reminder :

England    v Wales    - 07/03/2020 - 16:45pm - the HOME of Rugby.

England XV

Daly; Watson, Tuilagi, Farrell, May; Ford, Youngs; Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Wilson, Curry

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Ewels, Earl, Heinz, Slade

Wales XV

Halfpenny; North, Tompkins, Parkes, Williams; Biggar, T Williams; R Evans, Owens, D Lewis, Ball, AW Jones (capt), Moriarty, Navidi, Tipuric.

Replacements: Elias, Carre, L Brown, Shingler, Faletau, Webb, J Evans, McNicholl.


Overall - Played 134 - Eng 63 - Wales 59 - Drawn 12

[SecretFly]

Seriously though.  Is AWJ on a special Botox concoction?  He's got plenty of hard man frown lines and stuff - so not for beauty obviously - but he just never ever seems to even chance half or even quarter of a smile.  Are those taking-it-easy facial muscles frozen?
I know many players do the hard man scowl to project toughness.  But this man intrigues me.  In the tunnel, outside the tunnel. Lining up, chatting to kids, losing, winning, interviews.... always that same long stern, "I'm pi-ssed, me" face.

Am I wrong in imagining a more pleasant man maybe five or so years ago?  But it recent years anyway - Grim Reaper.
Give's a break, mate.  Go on.  Smile sometime - even for charity.

[Irish Londoner]

My take on the Marler incident - and just my opinion so not really worth a jot.  But for me, if it was a Vinnie Jones style painful squeeze then it should be punished severely. As a ‘funny rub’, albeit ill judged, I think he should be reprimanded but not really punished.  It didn’t look like it was intended to cause pain or injure.  I don’t agree that we should be applying workplace laws and rules here as they don’t apply in other facets of rugby either (e.g. punching a player; smashing a player in the tackle - both of which would land you in court or jail if done in work. So different values and principles seem to be applied).

I'm a heart an old school rugby fan and player - i was the hands in the ruck guy slowing the ball, always slightly offside, not the fastest at rolling away, given and taken a serving of shoe pie, etc. and from the school of "it's only an offence if the ref sees it..." and what Marler did has gone on since time immemorial and probably still does at lower levels.

But that was then and this is now, if the referee, touch judge (not a euphemisim) or TMO had reacted to it, it would have been at worst a yellow and a penalty and something to have a laugh over later. Pretty much like Alfie Thomas did in his comments.

The problem is that what's a laugh on the training ground or at a game between Old Scruttocks 3rds V Wilton's Green 3rds, is just not acceptable at the top end of the game where there's cameras all over the ground and everything is on social media thirty seconds after it happens. So immeadiately there's a "pile on" on Muppet and Bookface, and the cries of "something must be done" start. Of course Marler hasn't helped by responding "bow locks" on Twitter either - and yes while as "rugby people" we see it as something a bit stupid but not the end of the world, the ordinary spectator looks at it and sees every stereotype about rugby players confirmed and also starts getting the idea the rugby might not be the game for their boy or girl to take up.

Like it or not I bet there were coaches all over the country on Sunday morning having to explain to their minis that it wasn't the right thing to do and that it certainly wasn't right to do it in the context of a mixed team which many mini sides are.

I don't buy the "sportsmen as role models" stuff as it only seems to be when they do something wrong that it comes up but what was Marler thinking ?

[TightHEAD]

All Marler has to do is rock up to the disciplinary with a pair of pants on his head and two pencils up his nose and say 'Wibble'.  A tutu, fishnet tights and high heels could also be worn.

The guy has a history of mental illness. What are they really going to do in this day and age of tolerance and mental health awareness?

He slipped up, fine him his match fee and move on.

[SecretFly]

Isn't this man quite renowned for trying to get out of playing International?

So the punishment should be that he gets a twelve match ban on him trying not to play.

[TightHEAD]

Match bans mean nothing. Body & mind get a rest.

Hit them where it hurts. Their pockets!

[Collapse2005]

Isn't this man quite renowned for trying to get out of playing International?

So the punishment should be that he gets a twelve match ban on him trying not to play.

Ha yes, he punishment should be he has to play.

[Irish Londoner]

Isn't this man quite renowned for trying to get out of playing International?

So the punishment should be that he gets a twelve match ban on him trying not to play.

Ha yes, he punishment should be he has to play.

Make him captain for the summer tour, that'll teach him !

[Comfort]

Isn't this man quite renowned for trying to get out of playing International?

So the punishment should be that he gets a twelve match ban on him trying not to play.

Ha yes, he punishment should be he has to play.

Make him captain for the summer tour,  that'll teach him !

Ellis Genge for co-captain? Between them they'll have their hands full of sausages.

[TightHEAD]

Hadleigh Parkes BBC Column

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51823007

No mention of his bad tackle on Manu . Should have been off.

[Recwatcher16]

I must have missed it but looking at the video, anyone know why the welsh captain was looking and reaching with his right arm over the melee in one direction and yet his left elbow was against Marler's neck. Did this prompt Marler's inappropriate reaction ?
The provocateur wyns again.....
I haven't forgotten the cynical trip on Hartley, of all people, a few years back too......

[mikey_dragon]

You're seeing things again. AWJ the victim of sexual assault; the English haven't stopped moaning about him since. Thank god for the citing commissioner.

[Gooseberry]

Imagine what its like being and England forward, years of criticism about their lack of ball handling skills then all Alan can do is moan about it, meanwhile his teammates putting his tackle in roughly on poor Tuilagi.
Indeed its as well for the citing commissioner as the ref completely missed it, I bet Nigel Owens would've had his eye on the action area had he been eligible.

[Khouli Khan]

You're seeing things again. AWJ the victim of sexual assault; the English haven't stopped moaning about him since. Thank god for the citing commissioner.

Alun-Whinge is lucky it was Marler. Anyone with a longer attention span would still be trying to find AWJ's balls.

[mikey_dragon]

You're seeing things again. AWJ the victim of sexual assault; the English haven't stopped moaning about him since. Thank god for the citing commissioner.

Alun-Whinge is lucky it was Marler. Anyone with a longer attention span would still be trying to find AWJ's balls.

You were banned from here before weren't you? I recognise the toilet humour.

[Gooseberry]

You're seeing things again. AWJ the victim of sexual assault; the English haven't stopped moaning about him since. Thank god for the citing commissioner.

Alun-Whinge is lucky it was Marler. Anyone with a longer attention span would still be trying to find AWJ's balls.

You were banned from here before weren't you? I recognise the toilet humour.

Joe Marler was banned for his humour too. Statement at the time of that: 

"Joe recognises that he is a role model and takes this position, as a part of his profession, seriously. He has accepted that he made a mistake and has apologised to all those he offended. These actions are in line with the man we know and respect.

He has always made and will continue to make a positive impression on our supporters and staff."


Joe recognises that he is a role model and takes this position, as a part of his profession, seriously. He has accepted that he made a mistake and has apologised to all those he offended. These actions are in line with the man we know and respect.
"

Questionable if he made a positive impact on the staff with this mistake

[mikey_dragon]

As I said, Gwyn Jones summed up Marler well, the only time Gwyn will make sense.

[Guest]

Seriously though.  Is AWJ on a special Botox concoction?  He's got plenty of hard man frown lines and stuff - so not for beauty obviously - but he just never ever seems to even chance half or even quarter of a smile.  Are those taking-it-easy facial muscles frozen?
I know many players do the hard man scowl to project toughness.  But this man intrigues me.  In the tunnel, outside the tunnel. Lining up, chatting to kids, losing, winning, interviews.... always that same long stern, "I'm pi-ssed, me" face.

Am I wrong in imagining a more pleasant man maybe five or so years ago?  But it recent years anyway - Grim Reaper.
Give's a break, mate.  Go on.  Smile sometime - even for charity.

Since Warburton retired he's the clear top dog in Wales. With power comes responsibility and all that. Did you see Richie McCaw go round smiling and laughing? Now we all know his successor Read had a smile that, once seen, you can never forget...but then maybe that was his problem? Richie McCaw was 2 world cups. Read smiled his way out of a Lions tour and Webb Ellis winner's medal...

[Soul Requiem]

Seriously though.  Is AWJ on a special Botox concoction?  He's got plenty of hard man frown lines and stuff - so not for beauty obviously - but he just never ever seems to even chance half or even quarter of a smile.  Are those taking-it-easy facial muscles frozen?
I know many players do the hard man scowl to project toughness.  But this man intrigues me.  In the tunnel, outside the tunnel. Lining up, chatting to kids, losing, winning, interviews.... always that same long stern, "I'm pi-ssed, me" face.

Am I wrong in imagining a more pleasant man maybe five or so years ago?  But it recent years anyway - Grim Reaper.
Give's a break, mate.  Go on.  Smile sometime - even for charity.

Since Warburton retired he's the clear top dog in Wales. With power comes responsibility and all that. Did you see Richie McCaw go round smiling and laughing? Now we all know his successor Read had a smile that, once seen, you can never forget...but then maybe that was his problem? Richie McCaw was 2 world cups. Read smiled his way out of a Lions tour and Webb Ellis winner's medal...

Or perhaps McCaw just had a better team to captain.

[Guest]

Or perhaps McCaw just had a better team to captain.

[Soul Requiem]

Or perhaps McCaw just had a better team to captain.

[Gooseberry]

As I said, Gwyn Jones summed up Marler well, the only time Gwyn will make sense.

Please tell me there isn't an Alun Gwyn Jones as well its confusing enough as it is with the Wyns.

[No 7&1/2]

There s clearly more than one way to lead. You dont have to be miserable and distant etc. And yes mccaws team (although theres an issue with picking only 23mover that time) was better than the more recent iterations of NZ.

[LondonTiger]

Seriously though.  Is AWJ on a special Botox concoction?  He's got plenty of hard man frown lines and stuff - so not for beauty obviously - but he just never ever seems to even chance half or even quarter of a smile.  Are those taking-it-easy facial muscles frozen?
I know many players do the hard man scowl to project toughness.  But this man intrigues me.  In the tunnel, outside the tunnel. Lining up, chatting to kids, losing, winning, interviews.... always that same long stern, "I'm pi-ssed, me" face.

Am I wrong in imagining a more pleasant man maybe five or so years ago?  But it recent years anyway - Grim Reaper.
Give's a break, mate.  Go on.  Smile sometime - even for charity.

Since Warburton retired he's the clear top dog in Wales. With power comes responsibility and all that. Did you see Richie McCaw go round smiling and laughing? Now we all know his successor Read had a smile that, once seen, you can never forget...but then maybe that was his problem? Richie McCaw was 2 world cups. Read smiled his way out of a Lions tour and Webb Ellis winner's medal...

noting thumbnail does not open, but still image is pretty clear.

[Gooseberry]

Bants aside AWJ looks like he hasnt had a proper break for years. 

Assuming it isnt cancelled anyway will Pivac give him the summer off to recuperate? If hes targeting another Lions tour for a retirement hes going to need a genuine rest period. Wales also need to sort out whos going to lead them going forward into the next world cup. 

The flip side is another loss in the 6 nations this Saturday will see a lot of pressure on Pivac to think short term for results rather than whats best for the individual players and overall long term team development.

[LondonTiger]

Noting it was a complete accident - but the injury to Jonny May from 1/2p's elbow has been diagnosed as a fractured cheekbone.

[LondonTiger]

10 week ban for Marler.
4 week ban for Manu.
No punishment for Lawes.

[mikey_dragon]

Does anyone have footages of Lawes' supposedly dangerous tackle?

[No 7&1/2]

I posted it a few pages back mikey.

[Guest]

Or perhaps McCaw just had a better team to captain.

[Guest]

Seriously though.  Is AWJ on a special Botox concoction?  He's got plenty of hard man frown lines and stuff - so not for beauty obviously - but he just never ever seems to even chance half or even quarter of a smile.  Are those taking-it-easy facial muscles frozen?
I know many players do the hard man scowl to project toughness.  But this man intrigues me.  In the tunnel, outside the tunnel. Lining up, chatting to kids, losing, winning, interviews.... always that same long stern, "I'm pi-ssed, me" face.

Am I wrong in imagining a more pleasant man maybe five or so years ago?  But it recent years anyway - Grim Reaper.
Give's a break, mate.  Go on.  Smile sometime - even for charity.

Since Warburton retired he's the clear top dog in Wales. With power comes responsibility and all that. Did you see Richie McCaw go round smiling and laughing? Now we all know his successor Read had a smile that, once seen, you can never forget...but then maybe that was his problem? Richie McCaw was 2 world cups. Read smiled his way out of a Lions tour and Webb Ellis winner's medal...

noting thumbnail does not open, but still image is pretty clear.

Clearly photshopped. The only time he smiled was when offside and causing havoc.

[Guest]

10 week ban for Marler.
4 week ban for Manu.
No punishment for Lawes.

Probably fair all round. Lawes' tackle looked like a yellow card to me at worst but was between a yellow and a penalty. Ignoring it was a horrible decision by the TMO and for all the chat far worse an injustice than Parkes on Tuilagi only being a penalty. Marler gets a slap on the wrist and a bit more with a clear precedent set that should disincentivise this kind of joke on the field, and keep it for the hotel rooms and nights out.

[Exiledinborders]

10 week ban for Marler.
4 week ban for Manu.
No punishment for Lawes.

How many weeks for Parkes?

Sorry I forgot he is not English. What a joke!

[RiscaGame]

Boohoo.

[TightHEAD]

Marler- 10 week ban
Haouas- 3 week ban

Doesn't quite add up to me.

Manu -4  week ban
Lawes - no idea why he was cited.

Parkes -  nothing.
L.Willams - bugger all.

Eddie was right.

[Collapse2005]

10 week ban for Marler.
4 week ban for Manu.
No punishment for Lawes.

Id rather get grabbed by Marler than a flying shoulder to the head from Tuilagi, Marlers ban is a bit too long IMO but needed to get some punishment.

[RiscaGame]

Marler's ban was too short. Weeks taken off for remorse, after the tweet he put out mind

How that gobby get Eddie Jones only got "told off" by the RFU is a disgrace too.

[No 7&1/2]

Hopefully this puts to rest player such as Jones himself trying to wind players up.

[SecretFly]

Lucky guy Marler. Off on the well earned holiday to somewhere far far away... sun, no virus, no phone to annoy him....bliss.

Thank you World Rugby. Joe is very grateful.

[mikey_dragon]

Hopefully this puts to rest player such as Jones himself trying to wind players up.

Is Jones, assuming you mean AWJ, the only one who tries to wind up the opposition? Because I swear there’s 29 other players trying to do the exact same thing whenever he’s on the pitch.

A strange and desperate way to try and excuse Uncle Eddie, but also expected. If it was another nation, maybe Samoa for example, then I think there’d be a fine handed out.

[Comfort]

Hopefully this puts to rest player such as Jones himself trying to wind players up.

You cant teach the old dog new tricks.

All round seems fair - wouldn't have given Manu any more than that, don't think it was to the head with intent, just trying to make a statement hit in a physical game and went in without enough control - unfortunate more than anything and just down to inexperience and a lack of leadership keeping heads calm (coming from Eddie Jones down by the looks of it).

Surprised Eddie gets away with some of the things he says in all honesty - although it definitely bolsters a good team spirit of 'the worlds against us boys'.

[No 7&1/2]

I do mean aw Jones yes mikey. Astounding hypocrisy from him will surely make him.think more than most.

[Geordie]

I do mean aw Jones yes mikey. Astounding hypocrisy from him will surely make him.think more than most.

But 7.5 , AWJ got the result heintended...so why should it make him think any more?

On another note...

Why on earth is there nothing for Parkes....???

[mikey_dragon]

I do mean aw Jones yes mikey. Astounding hypocrisy from him will surely make him.think more than most.

How and why is it hypocrisy when it’s part of the game? Marler’s grope isn’t part of the game, it seems like you’re saying that AWJ deserves to be sexually assaulted?

[Barney McGrew did it]

Wind-ups / sledging are part of the game. 10 weeks for the Marler tackle tickle (as opposed to the more heinous mangrabbing) seems ludicrous when you compare it to punches to the head. There wasn't even any mitigation for the comedic value. We live in a confused world.

[LondonTiger]

I do mean aw Jones yes mikey. Astounding hypocrisy from him will surely make him.think more than most.

But 7.5 , AWJ got the result heintended...so why should it make him think any more?

On another note...

Why on earth is there nothing for Parkes....???

Because sometimes Citing Commissioners do not see things the same way as fans (some anyway). We tend to get quite partisan about things like this, but our incredulity that PArkes got away scot free matches that felt by Welsh fans after Kerevi on 1/2p.

[SecretFly]

You mean the ref didn't deserve a ban either and probably just had a very good game?


Damn. This neutrality thing is a bummer. Prefer flying pitch forks myself

[No 7&1/2]

Very true geordie.

[TightHEAD]

What about Marlers wellbeing?

Not considered at all with that joke of a punishment.

[TightHEAD]

#BeKind

Joe has been to some dark places. This could be serious for him, most comedians suffer from anxiety and depression. Its all just a mask.

I expect this will be edited or deleted too.

Probably not allowed to discus mental health on 606v2!

[LondonTiger]

#BeKind

Joe has been to some dark places. This could be serious for him, most comedians suffer from anxiety and depression. Its all just a mask

That's as maybe - but that does not give him a free pass to behave however he wants. He needs help and guidance, he also needs to be punished when he steps over the line. what he did is completely and utterly unacceptable and should not, nor ever, be excused.

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