PGA Tour: The Players: Notes from the Ballwasher

by kwinigolfer Wed 11 Mar 2020, 6:17 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).Well done to Tyrrell Hatton, great win at Bay Hill which continued the run of non-American winners - Day, Leishman, McIlroy, Molinari, Hatton.
This was also an Open Championship qualifier and Keith Mitchell (for the second year running), Danny Lee and Dahmen get to battle the traffic at Royal St.George's in July.

2).For the second week running, the course set-up seemed to make scoring unnecessarily tricky given the prevailing weather conditions. A war of attrition, but not necessarily the most attractive golf for the TV viewer to enjoy.
Hopefully the set-up at TPC Sawgrass will enable the world's best to play their shots.

3).Scott Piercy made news for all the wrong reasons last week and now Tour Commish Monahan has expressed disappointment "in the lack of judgment used" and "that it has been addressed with Scott directly". Good thing Monahan didn't say "he knows better" because Piercy clearly doesn't. But his sponsors do, thankfully, tho' any Tour punishment will be kept unpublished - unless he starts missing tournaments, from which we might draw our own conclusions.
Personally, I'd like to have seen his "invitation" to Bay Hill revoked, but no such disapproval reported from the API.

4).Interesting graph from princedrac's twitter account this week showing the top ten owgr points-getters at The Players:
Four Americans: Woods, DLIII, Furyk, Couples
Three Aussies: Elk, Scott, Shark
Nick Price
Sergio & Langer
A good week, of which there haven't been many recently, will see Garcia can jump from 2nd to 1st, ahead of Tiger.

5).That's reflective of an international honours board with eight of the last twelve winners being "overseas" players.
And first-timers at TPC have a tough time too - after Jerry Pate won on the course's debut in 1982, only Hal Sutton and Craig Perks have won trophy on their first trip. Leading "rookie" last year was Eddie Pepperell who stormed home in 3rd place - but he's busy trying to figure out how you get dq'd three times in less than 2 years.

6).This week looks like the exact halfway point of the pre-Play-Off PGA Tour season, the 23rd event out of a total of 46. About 50 pros have already won enough FedEx Points to assure them a tee-time at the Northern Trust, Round 1 of the FedEx Cup Play-Offs.
Not many are Europeans: McIlroy, Hatton, Rahm, Hovland.

7).And only Fleetwood among other Europeans is comfortably placed, for now.
Those who have struggled this season so far, but are exempt at least through next year, include McDowell (79th), Casey (93rd), Lowry (140th), Molinari (168th), Donald (assuming he takes another earnings exemption - 172nd), Garcia (179th), Willett (181st), Stenson (197th), Wallace (202nd), Rose (205th),
While this lot, all not yet exempt for 2020/21 have it all to do: Straka (82nd), Norlander (84th), Knox (90th), Fitzpatrick (100th), Noren (107th), Rafa C-B (120th), Poulter (128th), Cappelen (130th), Laird (158th), Ventura (175th), Power (201st), Bjerregard (224th), Lewis (227th), plus 3 or 4 others on more tenuous status.

8).But one or two American "faces" are also struggling, with these three less than half-way to a Play-Off goal about 400 pts:
110th: Spieth
111th: D.Johnson
213th: Koepka

9).The Florida "Swing" has a musical chairs of dates next year, starting with Bay Hill, then The Players, followed by "Honda". No word yet on how Valspar fits in, but hopefully retains its fourth slot in Florida.

10).Finally, the Top 64 in the owgr's after The Players will qualify for the WGC-MatchPlay in Austin in a fortnight's time.

Any Valspar Notes will be added here next week.

by Shotrock Thu 18 Jun 2020, 1:54 pm

I guarantee that if Shane would commit FT to the European Tour he would be in feature pairings in those events. I assume we'll see him at the Austrian Open and then after that at the Euram Bank Open?

by robopz Thu 18 Jun 2020, 2:02 pm

incontinentia wrote:Robo- how do they assess what crowds want, are there surveys or any sort of empirical data?

OMG.... since PGAT is such a marketing machine they have more ways to measure fan engagement with their overall product and players than any of us could possibly imagine. In fact I think they get so wrapped up in it they lose the script sometimes, but it is what it is. ET (and all major sports these days) do the same thing.

by super_realist Thu 18 Jun 2020, 2:28 pm

robopz wrote:
incontinentia wrote:Robo- how do they assess what crowds want, are there surveys or any sort of empirical data?
OMG.... since PGAT is such a marketing machine they have more ways to measure fan engagement with their overall product and players than any of us could possibly imagine. In fact I think they get so wrapped up in it they lose the script sometimes, but it is what it is. ET (and all major sports these days) do the same thing.

Fat Shane is simply not box office and in the overly insular world of American broadcasting, that matters. He has only won one major and so is probably treated about the same in terms of broadcasting reputation as other non American one hit wonders like Michael Campbell, Paul Lawrie, Geoff Ogilvy, Danny Willett etc when it comes to putting out marquee groups.

by robopz Thu 18 Jun 2020, 2:31 pm

Shotrock wrote:I guarantee that if Shane would commit FT to the European Tour he would be in feature pairings in those events. I assume we'll see him at the Austrian Open and then after that at the Euram Bank Open?

IMO Shane is one of those players that would probably be better giving up his PGAT membership and concentrating on the ET full time. He still is going to qualify for majors, Players and WGC's for a while anyway. Plus I would think he's good for four sponsors exemptions a year to get up to the max 12 non member events if he wants to play more. And since he's never finished top 30 FedEx (thus no Tour Championship), and looks like he likely wont get to 150 made cuts over here (which would get him fully invested in the retirement plan)... What's the point? He could probably make more money and win more staying home.

by incontinentia Thu 18 Jun 2020, 2:33 pm

robopz wrote:
incontinentia wrote:Robo- how do they assess what crowds want, are there surveys or any sort of empirical data?
OMG.... since PGAT is such a marketing machine they have more ways to measure fan engagement with their overall product and players than any of us could possibly imagine. In fact I think they get so wrapped up in it they lose the script sometimes, but it is what it is. ET (and all major sports these days) do the same thing.

So no is what you're saying...

What did you think when Shane was put in the "fat group" a few years ago? Seems organisers are more interested in cheap laughs and nonsense than showing respect to the players.

by incontinentia Thu 18 Jun 2020, 2:34 pm

super_realist wrote:
robopz wrote:
incontinentia wrote:Robo- how do they assess what crowds want, are there surveys or any sort of empirical data?
OMG.... since PGAT is such a marketing machine they have more ways to measure fan engagement with their overall product and players than any of us could possibly imagine. In fact I think they get so wrapped up in it they lose the script sometimes, but it is what it is. ET (and all major sports these days) do the same thing.

Fat Shane is simply not box office and in the overly insular world of American broadcasting, that matters. He has only won one major and so is probably treated about the same in terms of broadcasting reputation as other non American one hit wonders like Michael Campbell, Paul Lawrie, Geoff Ogilvy, Danny Willett etc when it comes to putting out marquee groups.

Where the hell have you been? We were worried

by super_realist Thu 18 Jun 2020, 2:36 pm

incontinentia wrote:
super_realist wrote:
robopz wrote:
incontinentia wrote:Robo- how do they assess what crowds want, are there surveys or any sort of empirical data?
OMG.... since PGAT is such a marketing machine they have more ways to measure fan engagement with their overall product and players than any of us could possibly imagine. In fact I think they get so wrapped up in it they lose the script sometimes, but it is what it is. ET (and all major sports these days) do the same thing.

Fat Shane is simply not box office and in the overly insular world of American broadcasting, that matters. He has only won one major and so is probably treated about the same in terms of broadcasting reputation as other non American one hit wonders like Michael Campbell, Paul Lawrie, Geoff Ogilvy, Danny Willett etc when it comes to putting out marquee groups.
Where the hell have you been? We were worried

Majorly busy with work.

by robopz Thu 18 Jun 2020, 2:39 pm

super_realist wrote:
Fat Shane is simply not box office and in the overly insular world of American broadcasting, that matters. He has only won one major and so is probably treated about the same in terms of broadcasting reputation as other non American one hit wonders like Michael Campbell, Paul Lawrie, Geoff Ogilvy, Danny Willett etc when it comes to putting out marquee groups.

Agree with the box office part. But I don't know about the overly insular part. PGAT has 12 players in four featured groups this week. 5 are non Americans. And Tommy Fleetwood hasn't broken his maiden over here yet, but he gets a lot of air play, very popular guy over here. Franny too, when he was playing well.

by super_realist Thu 18 Jun 2020, 2:46 pm

robopz wrote:
super_realist wrote:
Fat Shane is simply not box office and in the overly insular world of American broadcasting, that matters. He has only won one major and so is probably treated about the same in terms of broadcasting reputation as other non American one hit wonders like Michael Campbell, Paul Lawrie, Geoff Ogilvy, Danny Willett etc when it comes to putting out marquee groups.
Agree with the first sentence. But I don't know about the overly insular part. PGAT has 12 players in four featured groups this week. 5 are non Americans. And Tommy Fleetwood hasn't broken his maiden over here yet, but he gets a lot of air play, very popular guy over here. Franny too, when he was playing well.

America is massively insular in general, not just in golf broadcasting. If it doesn't have a US bent to it, then you don't hear too much about it over there. Just watch the news in America to see this.
I remember when Poulter and Casey were in the final of the Matchplay a couple of years ago, the crowd was sparse and the dreadful commentators couldn't have cared less.

My biggest problem in America is their broadcast tactics. If you're not in the top three then you will rarely get shown, furthermore the PGA can't arrange to have shots shown in order. Just terrible to watch. Could be a good product but they're too lazy.

by incontinentia Thu 18 Jun 2020, 3:44 pm

super_realist wrote:
incontinentia wrote:
super_realist wrote:
robopz wrote:
incontinentia wrote:Robo- how do they assess what crowds want, are there surveys or any sort of empirical data?
OMG.... since PGAT is such a marketing machine they have more ways to measure fan engagement with their overall product and players than any of us could possibly imagine. In fact I think they get so wrapped up in it they lose the script sometimes, but it is what it is. ET (and all major sports these days) do the same thing.

Fat Shane is simply not box office and in the overly insular world of American broadcasting, that matters. He has only won one major and so is probably treated about the same in terms of broadcasting reputation as other non American one hit wonders like Michael Campbell, Paul Lawrie, Geoff Ogilvy, Danny Willett etc when it comes to putting out marquee groups.
Where the hell have you been? We were worried

Majorly busy with work.

Are you still in the oil/energy business? Thought that was pretty quiet these days

by super_realist Thu 18 Jun 2020, 3:45 pm

Yes, I am.

by incontinentia Thu 18 Jun 2020, 3:57 pm

What do you all make of Bison de Chambeau's recent bulking and associated increased driving prowess? The guys on No Laying Up podcast were displeased, saying that his swing is terrible to look at and akin to a man trying to bludgeon a raccoon, but I say fair play if he has found a winning strategy. There's no pictures on the scorecard, as they say.

by super_realist Thu 18 Jun 2020, 4:01 pm

Apart from anything else it shows that the ball is not to blame for people hitting it miles but physicality plays a bigger part, so that effectively kills rolling back the ball.
Optimisation of clubs to suit a player is also more important.

by incontinentia Thu 18 Jun 2020, 4:50 pm

Surely the ball plays a large part, even if its not exclusively responsible? Its a combination of factors.

by super_realist Thu 18 Jun 2020, 4:58 pm

incontinentia wrote:Surely the ball plays a large part, even if its not exclusively responsible? Its a combination of factors.

It plays a part, but Mad DE Chambeau has just proved how much physique and swing speed has to do with it.
Ball technology in terms of distance isn't really making much difference, design is effectively creamed out.

by McLaren Thu 18 Jun 2020, 5:01 pm

incontinentia wrote:
super_realist wrote:
incontinentia wrote:
super_realist wrote:
robopz wrote:
incontinentia wrote:Robo- how do they assess what crowds want, are there surveys or any sort of empirical data?
OMG.... since PGAT is such a marketing machine they have more ways to measure fan engagement with their overall product and players than any of us could possibly imagine. In fact I think they get so wrapped up in it they lose the script sometimes, but it is what it is. ET (and all major sports these days) do the same thing.

Fat Shane is simply not box office and in the overly insular world of American broadcasting, that matters. He has only won one major and so is probably treated about the same in terms of broadcasting reputation as other non American one hit wonders like Michael Campbell, Paul Lawrie, Geoff Ogilvy, Danny Willett etc when it comes to putting out marquee groups.
Where the hell have you been? We were worried

Majorly busy with work.
Are you still in the oil/energy business? Thought that was pretty quiet these days

I suspect he has been clearing his desk out.

by Shotrock Thu 18 Jun 2020, 5:02 pm

A fine round by IJP, but what a comeback from Spieth.

Meanwhile, I hope Shane does better than his fellow Irishman Rory.

by super_realist Thu 18 Jun 2020, 5:04 pm

McLaren wrote:
incontinentia wrote:
super_realist wrote:
incontinentia wrote:
super_realist wrote:
robopz wrote:
incontinentia wrote:Robo- how do they assess what crowds want, are there surveys or any sort of empirical data?
OMG.... since PGAT is such a marketing machine they have more ways to measure fan engagement with their overall product and players than any of us could possibly imagine. In fact I think they get so wrapped up in it they lose the script sometimes, but it is what it is. ET (and all major sports these days) do the same thing.

Fat Shane is simply not box office and in the overly insular world of American broadcasting, that matters. He has only won one major and so is probably treated about the same in terms of broadcasting reputation as other non American one hit wonders like Michael Campbell, Paul Lawrie, Geoff Ogilvy, Danny Willett etc when it comes to putting out marquee groups.
Where the hell have you been? We were worried

Majorly busy with work.
Are you still in the oil/energy business? Thought that was pretty quiet these days

I suspect he has been clearing his desk out.

Not at all Mac, never been busier. Doesn't mean I couldn't be laid off at some point but having been there before it's nothing to fear with the package I'll get.

by GPB Thu 18 Jun 2020, 7:07 pm

Shane Lowry didn't even get invited to Martin Kaymer's Zoom Conference Call for the European.

How dare Kaymer not invite the most recent Major Champion to his conference call.

If Shane can't be bothered for this conference call, why should he be put into a feature group?

https://twitter.com/EuropeanTour/status/1272906783900590080

(edit) And FWIW, I don't think Shane has been close to making a Ryder Cup team on merit, nor has he been in consideration for a Wild Card.

by GPB Thu 18 Jun 2020, 7:21 pm

McLaren wrote: I suspect he was having a pop at players like Fleetwood and Fitzpatrick (although we know how much he needs his home comforts).

I don't think he is taking a pop at Matty Fitz, since Fitz played last week (T32) and this week (with a solid first round), and in the field next week.

Virtually no rough at Harbour Town this week.

by I'm never wrong Thu 18 Jun 2020, 7:33 pm

GPB wrote:I don't think he is taking a pop at Matty Fitz, since Fitz played last week (T32) and this week (with a solid first round), and in the field next week.
Virtually no rough at Harbour Town this week.

I agree, I saw an article that stated that Fitzpatrick had gone over to the USA early and quarantined himself in a rented house in Florida.

Has Fleetwood complained? Haven't seen anything, although I haven't looked too hard.

by robopz Thu 18 Jun 2020, 7:45 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:
GPB wrote:I don't think he is taking a pop at Matty Fitz, since Fitz played last week (T32) and this week (with a solid first round), and in the field next week.
Virtually no rough at Harbour Town this week.
I agree, I saw an article that stated that Fitzpatrick had gone over to the USA early and quarantined himself in a rented house in Florida.

Has Fleetwood complained? Haven't seen anything, although I haven't looked too hard.

I saw an article with Fleetwood explaining why he wasn't going to come over, but I didn't take it as any kind of complaining.... Now that the UK has taken down their 2 week entry quarantine, it should be easier. As of now Fleetwood is still showing committed for the 3M Open in Minnesota (week after Memorial). Then he's entered in the WGC in Memphis. I can't see the early entries for the PGA.

Now Westwood... That was complaining...

Now that the ET is putting on two more earlier events in Austria, that should help ease the OWGR situation a little bit. The gap between PGA and ET restart will be only 4 weeks instead of 6.

by super_realist Thu 18 Jun 2020, 8:00 pm

The UK hasn't removed the two week quarantine.

by robopz Thu 18 Jun 2020, 8:19 pm

Oh... I thought I had read somewhere they had.

by super_realist Thu 18 Jun 2020, 8:21 pm

robopz wrote:Oh... I thought I had read somewhere they had.

It only started on Monday, there's justified backlash to stop it, but so far they are digging their heels in.

by McLaren Fri 19 Jun 2020, 10:24 am

GPB wrote:
McLaren wrote: I suspect he was having a pop at players like Fleetwood and Fitzpatrick (although we know how much he needs his home comforts).

I don't think he is taking a pop at Matty Fitz, since Fitz played last week

To be fair I do remember seeing him get interviewed now you mention it.

by robopz Fri 19 Jun 2020, 2:47 pm

Back to Shane Lowry's pairing this week. I still don't have an issue of them not putting him in a feature pairing. But putting him with Keith Mitchell and Pat Perez really is a bit of a slap in the face. There are 27 major winners in this field... Shane deserved to be in with at least one or two of them.

by super_realist Fri 19 Jun 2020, 3:03 pm

I can't see how anyone has an issue with Shane Lowry. He's only a big physique, not a big name. I wouldn't expect other one hit wonders like Todd Hamilton, Mike Weir, Darren Clark, Ben Curtis or Stewart Cink to get premium pairings either.

Even though I don't like Fat Shane, and although he's not professional enough to take care of his body I do think he won't be bothered at all by this. He's played enough tournaments and will have played with enough big names.

by incontinentia Fri 19 Jun 2020, 3:38 pm

super_realist wrote:I can't see how anyone has an issue with Shane Lowry.....

... I don't like Fat Shane...

Enough said

by incontinentia Fri 19 Jun 2020, 4:16 pm

Why don't you like him anyway super? Any specific reasons?

by super_realist Fri 19 Jun 2020, 4:24 pm

I think he's wasted his career.
He hasn't worked hard enough on his career, he's made terrible scheduling choices.

I can see he's a really good talent, but he's in deplorable shape for a man of his age. It seems he's content to just cruise along in his career, rather than push himself to be the best he can be.

I'm no fan of De Chambeau either, but he seems to be trying everything to optimise his game (even though I think he needs to work on the bit between his ears more)

by incontinentia Fri 19 Jun 2020, 4:35 pm

I think most of his fellow pros would love his career so far, and he's still only 32 or so. Yes he hasnt won prolifically but he's comfortably in the 2nd tier of the worlds best players imo. Usually people decide whether or not to like someone based on their personality. I can't see how any reasonable person would actively dislike Shane.

Ironically, I think a hybrid of Woods and Lowry would be loved by you! (Woods drive, success and physique. Lowry's personality and shotmaking skills).

by Shotrock Fri 19 Jun 2020, 4:49 pm

Some fans worry about the supposed injustice of Shane not being in featured groups, but I guarantee you making the cut is what he's much more concerned about. Doesn't look good for this weekend.

by super_realist Fri 19 Jun 2020, 4:53 pm

incontinentia wrote:I think most of his fellow pros would love his career so far, and he's still only 32 or so. Yes he hasnt won prolifically but he's comfortably in the 2nd tier of the worlds best players imo. Usually people decide whether or not to like someone based on their personality. I can't see how any reasonable person would actively dislike Shane.

Ironically, I think a hybrid of Woods and Lowry would be loved by you! (Woods drive, success and physique. Lowry's personality and shotmaking skills).

I cannot stand Woods. I also think in converse to Lowry that Woods reliance on inappropriate and unsuitable training has ruined his career longevity, plus he's thick as mince. If he had taken better advice he could have comfortably had 20 majors.

Woods thought that being a gym rat without any real knowledge of how it applied to the golf swing would work, but he only built up his upper body and didn't protect his fragile back and sparrow like legs. I remember the long drive champ Joe Miller laughing at how stupid his regime was, because he could see it would damage him.

by GPB Fri 19 Jun 2020, 6:51 pm

I am going to start calling DeChambeau "The Chairman" because he is doing things "His Way"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6D71kQRhA

by robopz Fri 19 Jun 2020, 8:42 pm

GPB wrote:I am going to start calling DeChambeau "The Chairman" because he is doing things "His Way"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6D71kQRhA

I'm liking Bryson more with each passing round... The dude totally puts his money where his mouth is....

by McLaren Fri 19 Jun 2020, 9:20 pm

Watney has the plague. What happens now? Contact tracing with his playing partners and caddies withdrawn at a minimum?

by incontinentia Fri 19 Jun 2020, 9:34 pm

robopz wrote:
GPB wrote:I am going to start calling DeChambeau "The Chairman" because he is doing things "His Way"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6D71kQRhA
I'm liking Bryson more with each passing round... The dude totally puts his money where his mouth is....

Woods has nicknamed him Rain Man, which I thought was very cheeky Very Happy

by GPB Fri 19 Jun 2020, 10:07 pm

robopz wrote:
GPB wrote:I am going to start calling DeChambeau "The Chairman" because he is doing things "His Way"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6D71kQRhA

I'm liking Bryson more with each passing round... The dude totally puts his money where his mouth is....

I like his enthusiasm and brashness.

Heard a soundbite from him saying that he would weigh 30 add'l pounds if he was on the "juice".

by Shotrock Sat 20 Jun 2020, 2:25 am

So Shane did not make the cut. Are we going to blame the his parings? Good grief.

Remember, he's the CHAMPION golfer of the year (2019). Rolling Eyes

Let's see if of the heavier and longer BDC can close the deal. Game on.

by incontinentia Sat 20 Jun 2020, 12:35 pm

Shotrock wrote:So Shane did not make the cut. Are we going to blame the his parings? Good grief.

Remember, he's the CHAMPION golfer of the year (2019).

Let's see if of the heavier and longer BDC can close the deal. Game on.

Surely he's the champion golfer of the year July '19 - July '20??

He wasn't the champion golfer of 2019 before he won the Open, so does his champion status only last from July to the end of December? Should he only be eligible for featured pairing during this timeframe?

by **navyblueshorts** Sat 20 Jun 2020, 1:04 pm

super_realist wrote:
incontinentia wrote:Surely the ball plays a large part, even if its not exclusively responsible? Its a combination of factors.

It plays a part, but Mad DE Chambeau has just proved how much physique and swing speed has to do with it.
Ball technology in terms of distance isn't really making much difference, design is effectively creamed out.

Get what you're saying, but don't necessarily completely agree. The modern ball's spin separation between driver and wedge is a huge difference cf. balata days. If the ball had more spin when slightly mishit w/ a driver (side-spin especially), I think resulting shot distribution would mitigate against the bomb it players somewhat. With modern balls and the best players, they seem to be able to simply tw@t it w/ little concern for consequences.

by McLaren Sat 20 Jun 2020, 1:34 pm

Good point Navy, it isn't all about length but whether or not good drivers are rewarded. Someone like Rory should have an even greater SG from driving but because of the modern driver and balls he cannot separate himself enough from an average driver of the ball, in combining length and accuracy.

by GPB Sat 20 Jun 2020, 2:00 pm

What do you Brits know about Jamie Weir.

Yesterday, he made a tweet ranting about the PGATour and the lack of transparency. He made unsubstantiated allegations that Tour said Watney was never on Tournament site yesterday. Rory and Koepka later said that they had some interactions with Watney early in the day and then said the tour was lying about Watney not being on-site yesterday.

Apparently he couldn't prove that Tour said Watney was not on-site and then proceeded to scrub all the relevant tweets.

I have never heard of him until yesterday, but he looked like one big jack@$$ last night

by Shotrock Sat 20 Jun 2020, 3:23 pm

Inco - I was being sarcastic about the pomposity of a single tournament declaring the "Champion Golfer of the Year", but you are correct ... it's his (well-earned) title until that tournament is played again.

Do I think he should be in feature pairings because of that? No. The tournament sponsor(s) can (and should, IMO) do whatever they wish. They are taking the financial risk. If - due to their actions or inactions - they stop attracting players, fans and viewers then they will lose and someone will pick up that time slot. The wheels of capitalism in professional golf turn.

by GPB Sat 20 Jun 2020, 4:12 pm

Oh my goodness, I just saw Jon Rahm do the 'Signum Crusis' after lipping in a putt.

Don't tell me he is religious?

by beninho Sat 20 Jun 2020, 5:16 pm

GPB wrote:Oh my goodness, I just saw Jon Rahm do the 'Signum Crusis' after lipping in a putt.

Don't tell me he is religious?

He's spanish, I'd be surprised if he wasn't.

by GPB Sat 20 Jun 2020, 5:58 pm

Ok

being Spanish and religious is tolerable.

But being American and religious is something to criticize.

Gotcha!

by **navyblueshorts** Sat 20 Jun 2020, 6:04 pm

GPB wrote:Ok

being Spanish and religious is tolerable.

But being American and religious is something to criticize.

Gotcha!

by beninho Sat 20 Jun 2020, 6:50 pm

You seem to think that the one snti religion weirdo covers everyone else?

I would probably say, all bar maybe one, don't really give a sh£t about any golfers religious views. They may not agree, but probably don't care.

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