Jamie Roberts Fighting for a place in the Squad

Where does man mountain Roberts stand in the welsh pecking order?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/13738560.stm

He has had such a mixed bag since his International Debut three seasons ago

When on top of his game an invaluable player, but he can disappear into mediocrity so easily if his form drops. Man of the Tour with the Lions in SA to almost man invisible against England in Cardiff this year.

He is slow and predictable at his worst, Dynamic and powerful at his best. But where do Wales utilise him and is it form or just a limited ability? Is Roberts a one trick pony, or a big young player with potential to grow from a large outside back into a creative and explosive attacking midfield weapon?

There are plenty of center options for Wales, we have tried many combinations involving James hook, Jamie Roberts, Jon Davies, Gavin Henson and the now retired Tom Shanklin, over the last five years and bar Shanks, all are available to play. There are also Bishop, Maule, Hughes, Scot Williams to add to the equation.

He seems to be used as nothing more than a crash ball merchant. the sad thing is whilst he does tie in defenders which could potentially open up gaps, and leave forwards in midfield, the ball is recycled back so slowly, by 1 step, 2 step, 3 step Phillips that by the time Jones has the ball the holes have been plugged in defence so it looks as though Roberts hasnt done anything.

Has to be in the squad for my money. I dont think he has been particularly well used by Wales but it was against Scotland (i think) in the 6N he just constantly broke the gainline and he can offload.

Problem isn't with Jamie Roberts, problem is with how Wales have used Jamie Roberts. You'd be mad not to bring him.

Notch wrote:Problem isn't with Jamie Roberts, problem is with how Wales have used Jamie Roberts. You'd be mad not to bring him.

True to a degree

But Roberts often appears to not look for work and he lacks any creativity or imagination, not a game reader for Wales or the Blues.

Yes, I agree. A frustrating player at times. I'd like to see what he's like under a good coach.

Notch wrote:Yes, I agree. A frustrating player at times. I'd like to see what he's like under a good coach.

Well he looked very good under Geech's regime, he has also looked good for Blues and Wales, in fact Wales and Lions are the same coaches.

I must admit that there is a hell of a Soccer mentality creeping in to Rugby fans, always making coaches responsible for players inadequacies?

Surely if Roberts wishes to broaden his game he needs to do that himself?

I'm not blaming the coaches for his inadequacies, I just don't think that the Blues and Wales backlines are particularly well coached. He's told to perform a very specific role and it's often quite telegraphed. Teams have found it easy to mark him out of games as a result.

I'm not trying to shift the responsibility for his form, good or bad, off him.

Notch wrote:I'm not blaming the coaches for his inadequacies, I just don't think that the Blues and Wales backlines are particularly well coached. He's told to perform a very specific role and it's often quite telegraphed. Teams have found it easy to mark him out of games as a result.

I'm not trying to shift the responsibility for his form, good or bad, off him.

The Wales backs coach is the same as for the Lions, which is when we probably saw the best of him... So I don't think coaches would make much difference. A player can only offer something different tactically if he has something different to give. Roberts has never shown that he has any more to his game other than physicality, and considering the size of him and the power he doesn't seem to utilise that asset as well as I presume he should.

In the long term I would like to see him drop some weight and work very hard on becoming faster especially over more than twenty meters. He gets caught from behind to easily if he does make a break and clear the defensive line. I dont think he has a passing game or a kicking game in him, neither will he become a good game reader over night. He needs to have talented players around him for him to do well.

The slow ball coming from the blues or Wales pack doesnt help either.

Its funny how one dimensional his game can seem at times given that hes a smart man

Surely theres room in the squad for 4 centers, and roberts covers both positions.
Given Gatland wants Hook playing 10, and despite also despertaly wanting Henson I can see him being ahead of Roberts, is there that much compeition? Surely hes ahead of the Maule and Bishop, only JD2 could be considered possibly infront of him in the pecking order.

He may have had a bad run but recently but that hardly makes him unique amongst Welsh players. At least hes managed to peform well at the highest level most notably for the Lions away in South Africa...not many current Welsh squad contenders have ever looked good against Tri Nations opposition.

I dont see theres anything in that article that suggests he feels hes fighting for a place

He may have been dissapointing at times but that doesnt mean the second string losers are likely to keephimout of the squad. Id be amazed if he wasnt at the world cup other than injury or suspension.

Jamie Roberts - The only current Wales player to have beaten the AllBlacks...

Im sure when we line up against SA in the first game, Jamie might give the South Africans something to fear that our recent performances havent. :/

First choice centre in my opinion, although we need a creative 12/13 for him to work off - at the moment, only Hook has proven he can work well in the centres with Roberts....as for Henson, I just wish Shanks has recored to take his place. But without Shanks we are desperatly lacking in tried and tested centres (with Hook at 10, Roberts is the only centre with significant experience :/)

I have been very impressed with Scot williams too, he could well get in the mix if his form shows in the pre world cup training.

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Re: Jamie Roberts Fighting for a place in the Squad
by lostinwales Today at 21:50

.Its funny how one dimensional his game can seem at times given that hes a smart man.

I wrote a thread on this on the old 606 site. Jamie is smart, of course he is, but he is not an intelligent rugby player. His game awareness is poor. For example, he would not have executed that chip over the top for the 2nd try against Scotland like Jon Davies did. He excelled with the Lions largely due to BOD IMO. He has to go looking for more work and/or we can play him and North on the wings and have more creativity in the midfield.

I think accusations of him not looking for work are considerably wide of the mark.

He isn't a wing with license to roam the park and come inside when we have possession - he is a 13 and has strict defensive and offensive responsibilities. Part of the problem with his "crash ball" role is the lack of heads up Rugby by those inside him - to be truly effective he needs quick ball (a miss pass to him would be ideal) with decoy runners and at least one support runner.

He actually does his job pretty well considering most of the time he receives the ball too late when the defence is almost upon him and he has very few support runners. He generally makes a few metres, but then has to go to ground and shield the ball for long enough for the arriving forwards to clear out the ruck.

In essence, his poor form for Wales has coincided with the collapse of the service from 9/10 that has afflicted ALL the Welsh backs for 3 years. From the off the cuff Rugby that won two grand slams in 4 years, we have now switched to playing strictly by the numbers.

We have become so well drilled in what to do when the defence is in position that we have forgotten what to do when we create an opportunity, and to be fair Gatland and the senior players have talked about this a LOT in the last couple of years.

I dearly wish Henson could recover his best form in time for the WC (probably a folorn hope I know), but whilst he showed poor form against the BaBaas, he at least showed he knew WHEN to throw a miss pass and WHEN to commit his defender, and he also showed some willingness to run as decoy and as support . I think (again IF he recovers some form) that GH and JR could be a potent combination in the midfield.

He does not have much game time left to prove he should be in the 30 man squad but due to his experience I'm sure he will be travelling down south.

Cymroglan wrote:He does not have much game time left to prove he should be in the 30 man squad but due to his experience I'm sure he will be travelling down south.

He was fit all season, I think he's been allowed to miss the Baa Baas match to have surgery to make sure he is fit. I am sure Gatland will take him, but I dont think he is first choice at 12 anymore. I think that JD, Hook and soon Henson will all be ahead of him for the inside center birth.

Roberts needs to do a lot to improve his game at 13, he may be used as a utility back, sort of center/winger/fullback ?

the best wales center pairing for my money is hook-jd2.

in RWC roberts should be used off the bench. he will cover wing and center and would be a worrying prospect for any opposition should he come on in the last quarter.

I thought the best Pairing I had seen for Wales all season was JD2 and Scot Williams.

JD had a very poor game IMO against the BaaBaas but agree Williams looked good.

Roberts WILL and SHOULD go to the WC, he is Gatlands first choice but I agree he is mis-used. Evryone knows he is used as a brashball merchant but should be used more in the dummy role.

I still think he could do a job at XV which would in itself free up a centre slot.

But he will rightly go to the WC.

bedfordwelsh wrote:JD had a very poor game IMO against the BaaBaas but agree Williams looked good.

Roberts WILL and SHOULD go to the WC, he is Gatlands first choice but I agree he is mis-used. Evryone knows he is used as a brashball merchant but should be used more in the dummy role.

I still think he could do a job at XV which would in itself free up a centre slot.

But he will rightly go to the WC.

Thats the thing though Bedford Mate,

He is a crash ball center, or he dummies the crash ball. Even an out of form Henson was doing that, JD2 can too. but they can both offer something else, as they are game readers, can chip, pass, dummy and break. Roberts has so few tools to his belt he limits the backline as an inside back.

i considered him an asset at the start of this thread but I am more and more concerned of his deficiencies the more this thread grows.

We need alternatives, or a very elusive intelligent player alongside him.

Does anyone know how many try assists he has compared with his contemporaries?

mm,

Not saying he should start but as for fighting for his squad place then? No way is he fighting for a Squad place he still has what it takes but we need to use him better.

Vx for me would be worth a go in one of the warm up games.

Vx?

I think Roberts is not guaranteed the place he was over a year ago, we have been found wanting creatively far too often with him.

He is a useful string to the Welsh bow but little more than that.

Still not sure what our ideal compliment would be.

Henson at 12 and Hook at 13 could be interesting if their form is at their best

mm,

LOL XV finger trouble.

Still think he will be one of the first names on the WC squad sheet just not the match day squad.

I thought he would be an accomplished 15 too after watching him at youth level. He lacks dynamic pace though and the is what limits him to being a decent 12.

if roberts was faster he could fit anywhere in the backline outside of 10, but he is too slow to play out wide.