Glasgow and Edinburgh ongoing banter thread 24 - Covid funtimes

[RDW]

First topic message reminder :

Previous gibberish

https://www.606v2.com/t69038p1050-glasgow-and-edinburgh-banter-thread-no-23-new-season-new-thread

Fixtures

Glasgow - none

Edinburgh - none

Scotland - none

[BigGee]

Good signing by Glasgow, as we are in need of a bit of spark in our back three and this young fellow looks quite similar to Darcy Graham, a smaller winger, also lightening fast.

Hopefully the conditioners can fill him out a bit without losing his speed and we may see him getting some game time this season.

[jimbopip]

Aye, he'll need to spend some time with the S&C coaches if he's to help out in the back row.

[EST]

Delighted with that - just need to nail down Jimbos other predicted signing, Ollie Smith, on a pro deal now - you would hope that is signed and sealed, he looks the better player overall.

[bsando]

Good signing for Glasgow, it could be an exciting few years for emerging Scottish talent.

Incase you missed it, Blues vs Highlanders. This link https://ok.ru/video/1447738411556?fromTime=4015 starts when Finlay Christie comes on. He actually copped a stud to the teeth shortly after but he shook it off for another excellent performance. I know I've said it a few times already but he looks like he has loads of potential, it's his off the ball work that really impressed me in this game. He even carried in a driving maul at one point!

[RDW]

Good signing for Glasgow, it could be an exciting few years for emerging Scottish talent.

Incase you missed it, Blues vs Highlanders. This link EDITED starts when Finlay Christie comes on. He actually copped a stud to the teeth shortly after but he shook it off for another excellent performance. I know I've said it a few times already but he looks like he has loads of potential, it's his off the ball work that really impressed me in this game. He even carried in a driving maul at one point!

Sorry Bsando I don't want us to get into trouble about copyright etc.

I've watched all the games so far and Christie has been very good! If he's getting regular gametime there he's best off staying there for now though.

[bsando]

Ah sorry RDW. I think it was a Russian site where they have some sort of loophole for avoiding copyright problems.

Yeah I agree, I could see him moving in a couple of years when he's had a good stint at Blues and hopefully won some silverware.

[BigGee]

I think Christie might have to make a call on where he wants to be, sooner rather than later. He is 24 now I believe and if he wants international rugby with Scotland, then he needs to be over here and under the noses of the selectors. We are not badly off with decent SHs and he won't just walk into the squad.

I could see him taking Groom's spot in the Edinburgh squad next year. Money wise, they probably would not be to far apart.

[RDW]

Pyrgos is 30 too so towards the end of his career. He could easily go on another 4 or 5 years like Greig but I'm not sure that will really serve Edinbrugh's needs, other than the elder statements to keep in his squad for experience.

[Hazel Sapling]

Christie is a Super Rugby journeyman at this point and has managed to get contracts with three NZ rugby teams. Not sure how many caps he has at SR level, but it looks less than 20 (counted 8 at Chiefs, 6 at Hurricanes and 3 for the Blues so far) and most will probably be off the bench. He does also have 40+ caps at the Mitre 10 cup level however folk rate that comp. He will be 25 in September.

Unless he really kicks on, he will not have anywhere near the CV of Groom (at the time 29 year old with 120+ caps of SR/Premiership) or Frisby (at the time a 26 year old with 75+ SR/Top 14 caps and 4 Australia caps)  when they came over. For comparison, Vellacott has 50 odd Premiership appearances and is the same age as Christie. Scott Steele has 100+ caps for London Irish and is two years older.

Putting development time into Shiel may be more productive.

[BigGee]

Developing Sheil does make sense but a squad needs 3 decent SHs. You might get away with one 30 something senior statesman but not a huge amount of sense in keeping 2.

He has got another season to prove himself but am not sure Groom has proved great value for money so far.

Christie, to be fair, would prkbably hsve a lot more SR appearances, had he not had an AB in front of him at some of his clubs.

I havd watched the last 2 Blues games as well and have been impressed he looks a rounded and dynamic player.

Maybe more suited to Glasgow thsn Edinbugh though

[RDW]

Also worth remembering people develop at different paces, with opportunity a huge part of that. We've seen plenty players come out of nowhere and make a good career for themselves in their early/mid 20s. We've seen plenty go the other way too.

[Hazel Sapling]

Everyone has their own pace of development and maybe Christie does come good. I am more of the view that paying him a healthy package to come over might not be the best use of resources.

The more I say that, the more likely he will turn into the next Aaron Smith...

[RDW]

There's certainly no need for him right now, but definitely worth bearing in mind for next season and beyond for Glasgow or Edinburgh (assuming some of the current players will move on)

[jimbopip]

Personally speaking, in person, after WHY??? I hope it's a cold day in Hell before Glasgow sign another sooper rugby scrum half.
Unless he's head and shoulders better than The House Elf. Or Hornito. Or Aldi Price.

[jimbopip]

The Once And Future Champions have announced their academy players.

Glasgow Warriors (14 players + 1 still tbc) — club/school at the time of signing
Thomas Lambert – Sydney University*
Angus Fraser – Stirling County
Murphy Walker – Stirling County
Max Williamson – Dollar Academy*
Alex Samuel – Stirling County*
Gregor Brown – Boroughmuir Bears
Rory Jackson – Ayrshire Bulls The Once And Future Rhuaridh/Rory Jackson
Ross Thompson – Ayrshire Bulls
Euan Cunningham – Stirling County*
Robbie MacCallum – Boroughmuir Bears
Michael Gray – Dollar Academy*
Finlay Callaghan – GHK (injured last season, previously at GHK)*
Ollie Melville – Sale Sharks*
Ollie Smith – Ayrshire Bulls

Lots of potential there.

[Hazel Sapling]

Personally speaking, in person, after WHY??? I hope it's a cold day in Hell before Glasgow sign another sooper rugby scrum half.
Unless he's head and shoulders better than The House Elf. Or Hornito. Or Aldi Price.

As mentioned, always going to be Edinburgh...unless Price or G Horne leave

The list of academy players, surprised that Smith did not get a full contract. From what folk here and the Offside Line say, expecting to see Thompson and Smith. Are any of the others likely to come through for gametime this season?

Murphy Walker got into Offside Line's team of the season at TH but we have Fagerson, Rae, Pieretto and Nicol. Melville is a former England u18 full back.

[BigGee]

Thomas Lambert was that very decent prop who played in the U20s last year. He definitely looked like a prospect

[RDW]

Thomas Lambert was that very decent prop who played in the U20s last year. He definitely looked like a prospect

Get him to Edinburgh!

[jimbopip]

So Melville-Smith-McLean could be a future back three?

And yes Flounder, I know that it is the Luvvies who might be interested in Christie: I was just pointing out that, hopefully, the rugby club are wiser than that.

[EST]

Personally speaking, in person, after WHY??? I hope it's a cold day in Hell before Glasgow sign another sooper rugby scrum half.
Unless he's head and shoulders better than The House Elf. Or Hornito. Or Aldi Price.

As mentioned, always going to be Edinburgh...unless Price or G Horne leave

The list of academy players, surprised that Smith did not get a full contract. From what folk here and the Offside Line say, expecting to see Thompson and Smith. Are any of the others likely to come through for gametime this season?

Murphy Walker got into Offside Line's team of the season at TH but we have Fagerson, Rae, Pieretto and Nicol. Melville is a former England u18 full back.

I'm really surprised Mclean is the one to come away with a pro contract and Smith is still in the Academy - judging just by the junior games I watched, Smith was the absolute stand-out by a mile - maybe he is a bit younger? I'm not sure it really matters, given that the academy lads will now be aligned with the squads on a more permanent basis, but its funny how coaches so often seem to come do different conclusions about players from fans - it's as if they have more knowledge than we do from seeing them every day, or something...

[bsando]

Personally speaking, in person, after WHY??? I hope it's a cold day in Hell before Glasgow sign another sooper rugby scrum half.
Unless he's head and shoulders better than The House Elf. Or Hornito. Or Aldi Price.

As mentioned, always going to be Edinburgh...unless Price or G Horne leave

The list of academy players, surprised that Smith did not get a full contract. From what folk here and the Offside Line say, expecting to see Thompson and Smith. Are any of the others likely to come through for gametime this season?

Murphy Walker got into Offside Line's team of the season at TH but we have Fagerson, Rae, Pieretto and Nicol. Melville is a former England u18 full back.

I'm really surprised Mclean is the one to come away with a pro contract and Smith is still in the Academy - judging just by the junior games I watched, Smith was the absolute stand-out by a mile - maybe he is a bit younger?   I'm not sure it really matters, given that the academy lads will now be aligned with the squads on a more permanent basis, but its funny how coaches so often seem to come do different conclusions about players from fans - it's as if they have more knowledge than we do from seeing them every day, or something...

They definitely don't have more knowledge than we do!

Is WHY??? Nick Frisby Jimbo? I agree with you, but at least Christie will be eligible for Scotland. Regardless of how many super rugby caps and the teams he's been through, if he's playing well and makes it over he'll be a good asset for Scottish rugby

[jimbopip]

WHY??? is indeed the Frisby. His was the easiest nickname I've ever coined: every time he took the field the voices in my head (yes, all of them) screamed "WHY???".

My theory is that DR really liked Leila Massaga as a person, "A top bloke and a good man", and wanted to spare him the ignominy of constantly being referred to as the worst southern hemisphere signing that Glasgow had made. Even as I type the voices are chanting "Big T! Big T!" .

WHY??? was neither young and full of potential which he never fulfilled, nor a great player who was past his best. As a southern hemisphere signing he was in a class of his own.

[NeilyBroon]

Yeah very surprised at the smith omission. Maybe they feel like Bryce is adequate cover??

On the subject of Christie to repeat what others have said, unless he's considerably better than our current options it's just not worth the investment. Yes he looks good in super rugby but so have others who have come and underwhelmed.

Dobie looks the part and is 6 years younger. Horne has matured nicely and Price still has a lot of experience to draw on. Sheil has looked handy when he's played, and this is before we consider other U20s like Chapman etc. He either comes to Scotland now to try for the international team or not at all. It's in his court more than ours. If he was a wing or a ball carrying 8 then it may be a different story. SH is the one position where our supply meets or exceeds demand atm.

[EST]

Yeah very surprised at the smith omission. Maybe they feel like Bryce is adequate cover??

On the subject of Christie to repeat what others have said, unless he's considerably better than our current options it's just not worth the investment. Yes he looks good in super rugby but so have others who have come and underwhelmed.

Dobie looks the part and is 6 years younger. Horne has matured nicely and Price still has a lot of experience to draw on. Sheil has looked handy when he's played, and this is before we consider other U20s like Chapman etc. He either comes to Scotland now to try for the international team or not at all. It's in his court more than ours. If he was a wing or a ball carrying 8 then it may be a different story. SH is the one position where our supply meets or exceeds demand atm.

Yeah maybe, although has Bryce officially been kept on? He could still end up playing plenty of rugby, so i'm not that fussed, but odd considering he was getting such rave reviews and we are crying out for a 15.

We could still really do with good stopgap at 15 until one of our younger players comes through - a Jono Lance type figure would be ideal, who can slot in as reserve 10/15 - a replacement for Jacko really.

Another option is to try Stafford McDowall at 15 - he can play there apparently and has all the physical tools to be really dangerous, it also re-balances the squad a bit which is centre heavy. I'd be interested to see him there at the very least.

[NeilyBroon]

Yeah very surprised at the smith omission. Maybe they feel like Bryce is adequate cover??

On the subject of Christie to repeat what others have said, unless he's considerably better than our current options it's just not worth the investment. Yes he looks good in super rugby but so have others who have come and underwhelmed.

Dobie looks the part and is 6 years younger. Horne has matured nicely and Price still has a lot of experience to draw on. Sheil has looked handy when he's played, and this is before we consider other U20s like Chapman etc. He either comes to Scotland now to try for the international team or not at all. It's in his court more than ours. If he was a wing or a ball carrying 8 then it may be a different story. SH is the one position where our supply meets or exceeds demand atm.

Yeah maybe, although has Bryce officially been kept on?  He could still end up playing plenty of rugby, so i'm not that fussed,  but odd considering he was getting such rave reviews and we are crying out for a 15.

We could still really do with good stopgap at 15 until one of our younger players comes through - a Jono Lance type figure would be ideal, who can slot in as reserve 10/15 - a replacement for Jacko really.

Another option is to try Stafford McDowall at 15 - he can play there apparently and has all the physical tools to be really dangerous,  it also re-balances the squad a bit which is centre heavy.  I'd be interested to see him there at the very least.

I'd be hoping to see more of Stafford in the centre this season tbh. 12 is an area where the national side could do with a bit of a pipeline. Outside of Glasgow we have a lot of options at 15.

Having read the way the academies are now aligning with clubs I expect this is just a way to save themselves giving players contracts but allowing them to play? I think if the players are registered as part of the club's academy they can play in competitions for the side... So essentially cheap labour, especially if they're of the quality of Ollie Smith. So I expect we still will see him there this season... possibly.

[BigGee]

Sam Johnson is pretty likely to be spending a lot of time playing for Scotland in the season coming up and Pete Horne more likely to be backing up the FH shirt.

McDowell has a pretty good chance to put down his marker as a 12 this year, let him concentrate on that.

[RDW]

Long term do people think it is a good idea for both Price and Horne to stay at Glasgow? On one hand it will drive competition and they will both get plenty gametime while being looked after, but it will also create a bit of a bottle neck for the likes of Dobie and others coming through.

For the next could of years I don't see it being an issue - Price and Horne will be battling it out, plus Dobie should get plenty time during international windows. I do think after that thought Scottish rugby would be best served by one of them moving on. By that time there should be current academy players pushing for an opportunity too.

Maybe that much mentioned move of Price to Edinburgh will happen in a couple of years once Groom and Pyrgos go!

[NeilyBroon]

Provided Horne gets more opportunity with Scotland I can imagine clubs in the prem and top14 would have him on their radar. Price maybe with a prem club?

Agree it'd be good for them to move on eventually. The only other solution is when pyrgos retires someone moves east. EDIT just saw you posted that RDW! I think that's more likely than Price moving abroad, as whilst he's a decent player he's not got as much going for him as Horne.

[BigGee]

From what we saw of Dobie last year, he may kick on very quickly and be pushing the other 2 for the match day squad in no time at all.

Price and Horne are going to be looking for top dollar on their next contracts and from that perspective, as well as it might be that all three are in the Scotland squad by then, it seems almost inevitable that one of them has to move on.

Price and Horne are both good enough to attract the attrntion of English and French clubs, so that move may or may not be to Edinburgh.

[EST]

Sam Johnson is pretty likely to be spending a lot of time playing for Scotland in the season coming up and Pete Horne more likely to be backing up the FH shirt.

McDowell has a pretty good chance to put down his marker as a 12 this year, let him concentrate on that.

Yeah, there is a very good argument to keep him at 12 - which is probably what will happen - but as it stands I don't think we have a 15 on the books? Could change very quickly of course, but even if we keep Bryce on, we are still left short at the back, even given Seymour's ability to play there. If we don't have anybody other than Bryce coming in, in the interests of squad flexibility and getting our most talented players on the pitch, I don't see any harm in seeing if he can perform in that role - from memory he played a big chunk of his U20 rugby there.

[BigGee]

I think Bryce will get another season, he was actually playing pretty well when he got his chance before the season shut down and looked like he might be putting his name on the shirt. He will certainly do a solid job for us if he is called upon.

The youngsters, Mclean and Smith need to be drip feed in next season and see how they get on. Hopefully one or both of them may do a Hoggy and suddenly be putting in a compelling case for selection.

I have a feeling that Wilson might be more inclined to roll the dice on selection of decent young players than Rennie was. He was more used to working under budget constraints at Cardiff and bringing through good young players there was his only choice.

It may not be a dissimilar situation in Scotland for the next few years.

[EST]

I think Bryce will get another season, he was actually playing pretty well when he got his chance before the season shut down and looked like he might be putting his name on the shirt. He will certainly do a solid job for us if he is called upon.

The youngsters, Mclean and Smith need to be drip feed in next season and see how they get on. Hopefully one or both of them may do a Hoggy and suddenly be putting in a compelling case for selection.

I have a feeling that Wilson might be more inclined to roll the dice on selection of decent young players than Rennie was. He was more used to working under budget constraints at Cardiff and bringing through good young players there was his only choice.

It may not be a dissimilar situation in Scotland for the next few years.

That's the ideal situation isn't it - got very high hopes that Smith could 'do a Hoggy', but obviously he was a generational talent, we would be very lucky if it turned out like that.

I agree on Bryce, he put in some very good performances and I would be happy for him to get a year contract. An experienced 10/15 to cover both positions is probably the best approach for this season, until one of the youngsters comes through and who can battle it out with Bryce.

[Hazel Sapling]

Brandom Thomson is still about, even after the Dragons debacle last year. He has put in a few decent performances in years past but his performances at the start of the year were not quite good enough for a non-SQ. He is a 10/15, though not particularly inspiring at this point.

Wilson, I hope, has been sat down and told that the budget is tight, but stable. The academy is the main recruiting ground with one or two big name (and a couple of small) signings a season to replace two or three bigger names leaving. Seymour and L Jones are not bad back-up FB's to choose from for a season, but ideally either Smith or Melville are able to take the opportunity given.

[BigGee]

Al Dickinson goes to Bristol as their scrum coach on a three year contract.

Good to see another ex pro heading off on a coaching career. He was a very technically sound LH and hopefully will do well in the role.

[EST]

Brandom Thomson is still about, even after the Dragons debacle last year. He has put in a few decent performances in years past but his performances at the start of the year were not quite good enough for a non-SQ. He is a 10/15, though not particularly inspiring at this point.

Wilson, I hope, has been sat down and told that the budget is tight, but stable. The academy is the main recruiting ground with one or two big name (and a couple of small) signings a season to replace two or three bigger names leaving. Seymour and L Jones are not bad back-up FB's to choose from for a season, but ideally either Smith or Melville are able to take the opportunity given.

Thomson is a funny one, he has put in some good performances but some absolute howlers as well - i've always thought that he warranted some more game time earlier on in his Glasgow career, but not convinced he has what it takes now. I actually thought his contract was up now, but looks like he has another year.

[BigGee]

I agree about Thompson, he looked completely shot after that Dragons howler last season and hard to see a way back from it.

I don't see him featuring much if at all next season and could easily move on at some point.

He did look promising at one stage but probably was never really quite good enough.

[RDW]

Looks like Matt Scott won't be lining up with Tuilagi anymore - he's left Tigers along with Kyle Eastmond.

Maybe explains why he was signed in the first place - the writing was perhaps on the cards that both would be off given all the contractual disputes.

[RDW]

Sounds like there's not going to be a landslide of Glasgow signings still to come

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/53257171

[BigGee]

https://www.theoffsideline.com/danny-wilson-glasgow-signings/?v=79cba1185463

Maybe not a landslide but a gentle trickle!

BBc interview fleashed out a bit in TOL

[Hazel Sapling]

I wonder if Leicester are going to take another look over the border after the news this morning. They are short a centre, a position we still have a surplus of at Glasgow (less so Edinburgh) and have been after Huw Jones and Nick Grigg in the past.

TBH, if we are looking to maximise our playing pool, one of those two going to Leicester would open up playing time for McDowall, Paddy Kelly and whoever else is coming through the academy without really damaging the playing squad.

[BigGee]

I wonder if Leicester are going to take another look over the border after the news this morning. They are short a centre, a position we still have a surplus of at Glasgow (less so Edinburgh) and have been after Huw Jones and Nick Grigg in the past.

TBH, if we are looking to maximise our playing pool, one of those two going to Leicester would open up playing time for McDowall, Paddy Kelly and whoever else is coming through the academy without really damaging the playing squad.

Grigg just re-signed and Shuggy has a year left and is on good money, so very unlikely that Leicester would buy him out. If they had that kind of cash, then surely they would have hung onto MT!

I agree thought that we are probably a bit rich in centres and lighter in other positions. That may well change though if Jones refinds his mojo under DW and gets himself back into the international team.

[NeilyBroon]

I wonder if Leicester are going to take another look over the border after the news this morning. They are short a centre, a position we still have a surplus of at Glasgow (less so Edinburgh) and have been after Huw Jones and Nick Grigg in the past.

TBH, if we are looking to maximise our playing pool, one of those two going to Leicester would open up playing time for McDowall, Paddy Kelly and whoever else is coming through the academy without really damaging the playing squad.

A fair point. I think Scott primarily was there as a 12 though and both Grigg and Jones play at 13 and have proven to not be particularly effective at 12. Also if Scott was dropped because of money problems I doubt they could recruit Jones. Alternately they could pick up someone like Paddy Kelly, he's a pretty decent option, plays 12 and will be cheaper.

Concerning for Scott though, it's so gutting the way his career has gone as a Scotland fan. He's another player relegated to the "could have beens". I hope he manages to find work soon or it may be another early retirement on the cards.

[EST]

Sounds like there's not going to be a landslide of Glasgow signings still to come

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/53257171

I saw that, not exactly clear what happened/is going to happen, but does sound as if most of the business is wrapped up and that Covid threw a massive pandemic sized spanner in the recruitment works.

What I don't really understand is why some of these re-signings haven't been announced - announce new contracts for Bryce, McDonald, Flockhart and the signing of Bain and suddenly things don't look anywhere near as bad - none of these guys are going to break the bank and in the current climate I can't imagine they will want to be looking around for other clubs.

[NeilyBroon]

Sounds like there's not going to be a landslide of Glasgow signings still to come

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/53257171

I saw that, not exactly clear what happened/is going to happen, but does sound as if most of the business is wrapped up and that Covid threw a massive pandemic sized spanner in the recruitment works.  

What I don't really understand is why some of these re-signings haven't been announced - announce new contracts for Bryce, McDonald, Flockhart and the signing of Bain and suddenly things don't look anywhere near as bad - none of these guys are going to break the bank and in the current climate I can't imagine they will want to be looking around for other clubs.

I think this could be for the players due to the fluidity of the situation. I've had jobs fall through in years past and it's an unpleasant experience, and that's without a public announcement that I will be joining 'x' company. It would look bad and not be great for the player either. I expect they were waiting to be 100% sure that it was happening.

[EST]

Sounds like there's not going to be a landslide of Glasgow signings still to come

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/53257171

I saw that, not exactly clear what happened/is going to happen, but does sound as if most of the business is wrapped up and that Covid threw a massive pandemic sized spanner in the recruitment works.  

What I don't really understand is why some of these re-signings haven't been announced - announce new contracts for Bryce, McDonald, Flockhart and the signing of Bain and suddenly things don't look anywhere near as bad - none of these guys are going to break the bank and in the current climate I can't imagine they will want to be looking around for other clubs.

I think this could be for the players due to the fluidity of the situation. I've had jobs fall through in years past and it's an unpleasant experience, and that's without a public announcement that I will be joining 'x' company. It would look bad and not be great for the player either. I expect they were waiting to be 100% sure that it was happening.

Yeah, i'm just a bit surprised they haven't been signed off already - would all seem to be dead certs.

[RDW]

Anyone else dying a little inside to see all these new signings and the fact they're born in the year 2000?

[NeilyBroon]

Anyone else dying a little inside to see all these new signings and the fact they're born in the year 2000?

I'm more shocked by the fact we're already over half way through 2020 and I've spent less time out of the house than the last couple of months of 2019!

[BigGee]

Edinburgh confirm signings of Boyle, Darge and Grahameslaw

Three very decent young players there, good business. They are in positions of strength for Edinburgh though so hope they get the gametime they need to develop.

I still think it would have made more sense to send one of the two backrows over to Glasgow, especially since they are both essentially OSs.

[EST]

Edinburgh confirm signings of Boyle, Darge and Grahameslaw

Three very decent young players there, good business. They are in positions of strength for Edinburgh though so hope they get the gametime they need to develop.

I still think it would have made more sense to send one of the two backrows over to Glasgow, especially since they are both essentially OSs.

Boyle looks a great prospect, think he's almost ready to step up as it is.

Totally agree about moving one across to Glasgow - would likely get some decent game time with Gordon and Fusaro. No openside coming through the academy in the west either.

[bsando]

Anyone else dying a little inside to see all these new signings and the fact they're born in the year 2000?

I'm more shocked by the fact we're already over half way through 2020 and I've spent less time out of the house than the last couple of months of 2019!

Likewise! I'm glad I went with my father to Edinburgh for the 1872 Cup because that was the last time I had a big night(s) out! I'm in week 16 of Furlough now.

The first time I started feeling old was when Kinghorn and Hastings came on the scene, those guys have taught me a whole bunch of millennial slang I wish I didn't know.

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