The Covid-19 serious chat thread

[JuliusHMarx]

First topic message reminder :

Self-isolating, social distancing, locked down thread split.

[jimbopip]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-55830497

Another interesting article. The two points that leapt out at me were the complete lack of appropriate safety measures when they arrived in the UK and the fact that most people wish they'd stayed in Wuhan; complete lockdown for two/three months then pretty much back to normal.
Yet here we are with two more transmissable strains and in a more lenient version of Lockdown than we had last year.

[Samo]

A bit of good news coming out today about the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine.

Oxford: “Analyses of PCR positive swabs in UK population suggests vaccine may have substantial effect on transmission of the virus with 67% reduction in positive swabs among those vaccinated”

Preventing transmission is a huge step towards getting life back to normal. Its certainly encouraging.

[Guest]

I lost my father to covid19 on Saturday, literally destroyed my world. Obviously since I was young I always envisaged my father would live forever. He was cruelly taken from my family aged only 63. My mother is concealing her broken heart, they where married for over 35 years.
It’s been a few days but I’m still struggling to come to terms with what happened. RIP dad love you always x.

[GSC]

My condolences to you and your family Jeff

[Samo]

Same age as my Dad. Sorry for your loss Jeff.

[Guest]

Thank you GSC and Samo

[alfie]

Just seen this. Really feel for you , Jeff. Always sad to lose your parent but at such an early age...nothing we can say will help at the moment so just hang in there and help your mother as much as you can ...

[Guest]

Thank you Alfie

[dummy_half]

Many condolences Jeff.

I lost my Dad very young (he was 57) nearly 15 years ago - things will get better, but it takes time. Don't rush things, especially for your mother, who is obviously going to have some huge adjustments in her life after 35 years marriage (my parents were together a similar time). My mother reckoned it was about 3 years before she felt able to make big decisions on her own (first one was selling my Dad's car that she never drove).

[jimbopip]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/05/rishi-sunak-government-pandemic-chancellor

Worth a read.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Seems Mr. Sunak has a lot to answer for. Not the knight in white armour charging over the hill to save everybody that he is perceived to be.

[Soul Requiem]

Seems Mr. Sunak has a lot to answer for. Not the knight in white armour charging over the hill to save everybody that he is perceived to be.

In your totally unbiased opinion based on an abysmal article in the guardian.

[Pr4wn]

Seems Mr. Sunak has a lot to answer for. Not the knight in white armour charging over the hill to save everybody that he is perceived to be.

In your totally unbiased opinion based on an abysmal article in the guardian.

Feel free to actually engage in the argument rather than mud-slinging.

[navyblueshorts]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/05/rishi-sunak-government-pandemic-chancellor

Worth a read.

An opinion piece and not even by an expert in epidemiology etc:

"Sam Bowman is director of competition policy at the International Center for Law & Economics"

Sunak's the Chancellor (has to look out for the economy etc) and is one member, only, of the Cabinet.

Worth a read? It's just more fluff meaning little from someone who's been paid to write for a left wing part of the press. Just for parity, yes, there's fluffy rubbish in slavish support of this Government from the right wing of the media as well.

[Guest]

Thank you dummy half

[BamBam]

I lost my father to covid19 on Saturday, literally destroyed my world. Obviously since I was young I always envisaged my father would live forever. He was cruelly taken from my family aged only 63. My mother is concealing her broken heart, they where married for over 35 years.
It’s been a few days but I’m still struggling to come to terms with what happened. RIP dad love you always x.

Very sorry to hear of your loss Jeff, my condolences to you all

[lostinwales]

Dave Egerton, 59 yr old former England rugby international has died from Covid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55975410

This doesn't include cause but other reports say he was admitted to hospital a few days ago with the virus.

[doctor_grey]

Today is my first day off since mid-december. Here in North Jersey, the ICU utilisation is going down dramatically and the hospitals where I work are below 50%. The staff I work with in hospital and in our office have been fantastic and are incredibly dedicated, but have been burnt out for quite a while. Everyone keeps grinding away at it physically, but the real hard part is emotional. So many people take the care of each Covid patient and their families personally. Hopefully this is a real ray of hope. but the virus is resilient and malign. Looking forward to tomorrow when i can simply clean out a couple of knees, tack a couple of ACLs back in place, and finish the day with a cigar and a beer. (or two).

[navyblueshorts]

Today is my first day off since mid-december.  Here in North Jersey, the ICU utilisation is going down dramatically and the hospitals where I work are below 50%.  The staff I work with in hospital and in our office have been fantastic and are incredibly dedicated, but have been burnt out for quite a while.  Everyone keeps grinding away at it physically, but the real hard part is emotional.  So many people take the care of each Covid patient and their families personally.  Hopefully this is a real ray of hope. but the virus is resilient and malign.  Looking forward to tomorrow when i can simply clean out a couple of knees, tack a couple of ACLs back in place, and finish the day with a cigar and a beer. (or two).  

FWIW and however trite it might sound - thank-you. Hope you get to enjoy the beer and cigar.

[Guest]

I lost my father to covid19 on Saturday, literally destroyed my world. Obviously since I was young I always envisaged my father would live forever. He was cruelly taken from my family aged only 63. My mother is concealing her broken heart, they where married for over 35 years.
It’s been a few days but I’m still struggling to come to terms with what happened. RIP dad love you always x.

Very sorry to hear of your loss Jeff, my condolences to you all

Thank you BamBam

[doctor_grey]

Today is my first day off since mid-december.  Here in North Jersey, the ICU utilisation is going down dramatically and the hospitals where I work are below 50%.  The staff I work with in hospital and in our office have been fantastic and are incredibly dedicated, but have been burnt out for quite a while.  Everyone keeps grinding away at it physically, but the real hard part is emotional.  So many people take the care of each Covid patient and their families personally.  Hopefully this is a real ray of hope. but the virus is resilient and malign.  Looking forward to tomorrow when i can simply clean out a couple of knees, tack a couple of ACLs back in place, and finish the day with a cigar and a beer. (or two).  

FWIW and however trite it might sound - thank-you. Hope you get to enjoy the beer and cigar.

Thanks mate. It's appreciated. The cigar is teed up for Thursday afternoon, and the Boddington's is ready to go as well!

[navyblueshorts]

Today is my first day off since mid-december.  Here in North Jersey, the ICU utilisation is going down dramatically and the hospitals where I work are below 50%.  The staff I work with in hospital and in our office have been fantastic and are incredibly dedicated, but have been burnt out for quite a while.  Everyone keeps grinding away at it physically, but the real hard part is emotional.  So many people take the care of each Covid patient and their families personally.  Hopefully this is a real ray of hope. but the virus is resilient and malign.  Looking forward to tomorrow when i can simply clean out a couple of knees, tack a couple of ACLs back in place, and finish the day with a cigar and a beer. (or two).  

FWIW and however trite it might sound - thank-you. Hope you get to enjoy the beer and cigar.

Thanks mate.  It's appreciated. The cigar is teed up for Thursday afternoon, and the Boddington's is ready to go as well!

Do you want a flake in that, love?

[doctor_grey]

mission accomplished.

[navyblueshorts]

mission accomplished.

Here's hoping you have time for a few more sooner, rather than later.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

The difference between countries that have managed Covid-19 well and the countries that have not.

We take a year to half heartedly make people isolate when the arrive in this country, Australia makes every single person self isolate and has done from a very early stage in the pandemic, I think NZ has behaved in a similar manner. Australia also introduce limits on the numbers of people allowed into the country over a period to to presumably lessen the threat of more infected people coming in and allow the numbers to be isolated in controlled environments. This includes their own citizens returning home. We have a free for all relying on people to "do the right thing" and self isolate with few checks if any.

We find the SA form of the virus over here, we set up a mobile test and trace system going door to door, Australia finds 1 or 2 cases of standard Covid-19 in Melbourne, it locks down the state, NZ finds three and locks down Auckland.

[doctor_grey]

The difference between countries that have managed Covid-19 well and the countries that have not.

We take a year to half heartedly make people isolate when the arrive in this country, Australia makes every single person self isolate and has done from a very early stage in the pandemic, I think NZ has behaved in a similar manner. Australia also introduce limits on the numbers of people allowed into the country over a period to to presumably lessen the threat of more infected people coming in and allow the numbers to be isolated in controlled environments. This includes their own citizens returning home. We have a free for all relying on people to "do the right thing" and self isolate with few checks if any.

We find the SA form of the virus over here, we set up a mobile test and trace system going door to door, Australia finds 1 or 2 cases of standard Covid-19 in Melbourne, it locks down the state, NZ finds three and locks down Auckland.

Exactly, mate. One country - two actually including NZ who were even faster - go after this aggressively with eyes open, whilst most do not. No one likes draconian actions, but shows political will and leadership. I know it's hard, people losing jobs or having trouble providing, economies in the worst shape since the Depression, but if this isn't stopped now everywhere, it will take longer and longer to get under control despite the slowly increasing availability of vaccines.

[Samo]

Anyone watch the Perseverance drone land on Mars? Incredible stuff. And it only cost £1.72bn (roughly). Thats almost a tenth of what this Tory government pissed away on a Test and Trace system.

Simply incredible.

[doctor_grey]

Anyone watch the Perseverance drone land on Mars? Incredible stuff. And it only cost £1.72bn (roughly). Thats almost a tenth of what this Tory government pissed away on a Test and Trace system.

Simply incredible.

The Perseverance landing and the pictures almost make me feel like a kid again, the absolute amazement and wonder of it all.  
The Covid responses at home and here in America makes me feel like a cynical, nasty, and angry old b*stard.  

Here's a radical, impolitic, and likely undemocratic solution:  Everyone gets the jab. For both countries, and really for all countries, it is a national security measure.

[navyblueshorts]

Anyone watch the Perseverance drone land on Mars? Incredible stuff. And it only cost £1.72bn (roughly). Thats almost a tenth of what this Tory government pissed away on a Test and Trace system.

Simply incredible.

A good headline, but not sure we're comparing like with like. Do you have inside info re. where the monies were spent on both projects?

[navyblueshorts]

Anyone watch the Perseverance drone land on Mars? Incredible stuff. And it only cost £1.72bn (roughly). Thats almost a tenth of what this Tory government pissed away on a Test and Trace system.

Simply incredible.

The Perseverance landing and the pictures almost make me feel like a kid again, the absolute amazement and wonder of it all.  
The Covid responses at home and here in America makes me feel like a cynical, nasty, and angry old b*stard.  

Here's a radical, impolitic, and likely undemocratic solution:  Everyone gets the jab.  For both countries, and really for all countries, it is a national security measure.

This would have my vote, excepting those that can't for medical reasons.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Could we phase a return to schools once?

[MrInvisible]

Johnson and his wretched government have been a complete car-crash during the pandemic, and I will never forgive them for their complacency, dithering and arrogance leading to the appalling death toll we've had. All that said, I was pleasantly surprised to see Johnson (broadly) following the advice and going for a pretty sensible cautious approach setting out the different phases of easing lockdown restrictions. He didn't learn lessons from the 1st wave, and the Christmas fiasco was disastrous, but this time round I genuinely feel some lessons have been learned and he's finally curbed the default instinct to over-promise, and struck the right tone today.

One slight area of concern I have though is that whilst the figures on reduced death tolls and hospital patients ill with Covid continue to go in right direction we had an increase in positive cases today compared to 7 days ago. Trying to be optimistic, could this be due to a lower number of tests than expected taking place over the previous weekend when there was heavy snow and freezing temperatures across much of the country? My theory will be put to the test this week and in next Monday's figures. If they continue to go down it was a blip, but if not, its a concerning sign - of who knows, a more transmissable variant doing damage. Hopefully though the vaccinations will make a sustained difference - at least in substantially reducing hospital admissions and deaths.

[lostinwales]

I still feel that in general the government is a car crash but there are positive signs that someone, somewhere is getting more on top of things. It isn't Johnson, that is one thing we can say for sure. Too busy on his plans for the Isle of Man underground roundabout.

Still too little in the way of responsibility or consequences. The government spends our money on lawyers to defend their actions, which are found to be illegal. Nothing happens. Media not interested therefore it didn't happen at all.

Back to the good news. The thing that struck me about the latest roadmap, was that it had detail. I have no idea how realistic it all is but actual detail is not something this government ever seems to do.

[navyblueshorts]

I still feel that in general the government is a car crash but there are positive signs that someone, somewhere is getting more on top of things. It isn't Johnson, that is one thing we can say for sure. Too busy on his plans for the Isle of Man underground roundabout.

Still too little in the way of responsibility or consequences. The government spends our money on lawyers to defend their actions, which are found to be illegal. Nothing happens. Media not interested therefore it didn't happen at all.

Back to the good news. The thing that struck me about the latest roadmap, was that it had detail. I have no idea how realistic it all is but actual detail is not something this government ever seems to do.

Interesting. Based on what, exactly? Think the departure of Cummings and Cain may not be entirely unrelated.

You'll have to explain the obviously hilarious in-joke re. an 'Isle of Man underground roundabout', at least for me, I'm afraid.

Who knows? Maybe the reasons Hancock's office didn't publish whatever contract records they should have published right on time was because they actually were quite busy at that point and did, indeed, prioritise other things. Just a suggestion.

As for the media, they are all clearly in UKG's pocket as they're a party to not telling us the real story. Obviously. Could it be that a) a court said Hancock's office got it wrong and b) Hancock's reasons for so doing are such that, whether you like/agree or not, there's nowhere really to go? Still, I guess the media might be investigating stuff before publishing because it might take a bit of time to find stuff out, check it and then to see if anything is worth publishing.

[Samo]

All Hancock had to do was say "No, we didnt disclose information on time, we were up to our eyeballs in work because of the pandemic, and we are sorry that proper regulations werent followed." instead of doubling down and refusing to accept wrongdoing.

Some of the contracts still stink to high heaven but he hasnt exactly shown himself in a good light by refusing to accept responsibility.

[BamBam]

I don't know what to think of this roadmap. On one hand its good to see an actual plan, even with all the caveats for minimum weeks, tests to be passed etc.

On the other side, its difficult not to see this plan being published solely for the purpose of placating the lunatics on the Tory back benches. Sending all kids back to school at once rather than staggering it seems a bit hasty, especially given the Easter break is only two weeks later.

Meanwhile the SAGE modelling would appear to indicate that we're still looking at hospitalisations rising above the Spring 2020 peak in 6 months time under any scenario - https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1363880176204021767?s=20

Part of me thinks its time to rip the band aid off and just go with it, but I don't believe the government has (or should have) the stomach to ride out another 20k deaths if that is the result.

[BamBam]

https://metro.co.uk/2021/02/21/boris-wants-to-build-giant-roundabout-under-the-isle-of-man-14120356/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9283331/Boris-Johnson-wants-giant-ROUNDABOUT-Isle-Man-connect-Britain-Northern-Ireland.html

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1400651/boris-johnson-roundabout-isle-of-man-irish-sea-tunnel-brexit-news

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tunnel-vision-now-pm-sets-his-sights-on-a-roundabout-under-the-isle-of-man-cg9523lxp

Pick your source

[jimbopip]

I still feel that in general the government is a car crash but there are positive signs that someone, somewhere is getting more on top of things. It isn't Johnson, that is one thing we can say for sure. Too busy on his plans for the Isle of Man underground roundabout.

Still too little in the way of responsibility or consequences. The government spends our money on lawyers to defend their actions, which are found to be illegal. Nothing happens. Media not interested therefore it didn't happen at all.

Back to the good news. The thing that struck me about the latest roadmap, was that it had detail. I have no idea how realistic it all is but actual detail is not something this government ever seems to do.

Interesting. Based on what, exactly? Think the departure of Cummings and Cain may not be entirely unrelated.

You'll have to explain the obviously hilarious in-joke re. an 'Isle of Man underground roundabout', at least for me, I'm afraid.sadly not an in joke: one of the most striking features of Boris Johnson's perception of how to use political office is his tendency to want to invest huge amounts of public money in grand projects; The Garden Bridge, The Floating Airport On The Thames, The Bridge Between Stranraer And Larne, The Moonshot Testing System (remember that?)...the Metro carried an article last week which pointed out that the Stranraer -Larne bridge was such an obviously ridiculous idea that Boris was dissuaded before he spent £53 million of the public's money on "consultancy fees" unlike the Garden Bridge. Undeterred Boris has, apparently, decided that a tunnel linking the west of Scotland and Northern Ireland is his next Big Project. But it gets better! One of the drawbacks with Stranraer is that it is in a relatively underpopulated part of the country and not easy to get to so the really exciting/bat Poopie loony (delete as appropriate) development is that Boris is asking civil servants to look at the idea of three tunnels leaving from Larne, Heysham and Liverpool all joining up Under the Isle of Man and then heading to Larne. This is so ridiculous it makes the floaty airport and garden bridge look as sensible as a sensible plan thought up by the Emeritus Professor Of Sensible Planning at a Sensible University.

Who knows? Maybe the reasons Hancock's office didn't publish whatever contract records they should have published right on time was because they actually were quite busy at that point and did, indeed, prioritise other things. Just a suggestion. You could apply Occam's Razor here: the most obvious explanation is usually the correct one.  Government Secretary awards HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in contracts with no competitive tendering, large amounts (in fact  a majority) of that money goes to firms run by people with close personal or financial links to the government, many of those firms buy goods which are not fit for purpose and the overall cost to the taxpayer is much, much higher than it should have been. not to mention the death toll/illness among NHS staff as a result of no PPE) And the government "delays" publishing contract records!!! I think the most answer is that it stinks of corruption. Ayanda Capital...never existed until the weeks, or so, before it tendered for a PPE contract. It had two employees; a husband and wife who were also the only directors. Its business address was there home address. Mr Ayanda Capitol was a former advisor to the Business Secretary and then a Parliamentary Lobbyist. They got a multi million £ contrct, bought a load of useless, as in unfit for use, PPE and then the directors, Mr &Mrs Ayanda Capital decided to award themselves IN EXCESS OF £1MILLION EACH. I wonder why the government were not in a hurry to publish the details of that contract. Actually, I am shocked that no-one is in prison as a result of that.

.

[BamBam]

For those unfamiliar with jimbo from the rugby forums, this type of quoting is known as doing a jimbo

You'll have to explain the obviously hilarious in-joke re. an 'Isle of Man underground roundabout', at least for me, I'm afraid.

sadly not an in joke: one of the most striking features of Boris Johnson's perception of how to use political office is his tendency to want to invest huge amounts of public money in grand projects; The Garden Bridge, The Floating Airport On The Thames, The Bridge Between Stranraer And Larne, The Moonshot Testing System (remember that?)...the Metro carried an article last week which pointed out that the Stranraer -Larne bridge was such an obviously ridiculous idea that Boris was dissuaded before he spent £53 million of the public's money on "consultancy fees" unlike the Garden Bridge. Undeterred Boris has, apparently, decided that a tunnel linking the west of Scotland and Northern Ireland is his next Big Project. But it gets better! One of the drawbacks with Stranraer is that it is in a relatively underpopulated part of the country and not easy to get to so the really exciting/bat Poopie loony (delete as appropriate) development is that Boris is asking civil servants to look at the idea of three tunnels leaving from Larne, Heysham and Liverpool all joining up Under the Isle of Man and then heading to Larne. This is so ridiculous it makes the floaty airport and garden bridge look as sensible as a sensible plan thought up by the Emeritus Professor Of Sensible Planning at a Sensible University.

Who knows? Maybe the reasons Hancock's office didn't publish whatever contract records they should have published right on time was because they actually were quite busy at that point and did, indeed, prioritise other things. Just a suggestion.

You could apply Occam's Razor here: the most obvious explanation is usually the correct one.  Government Secretary awards HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in contracts with no competitive tendering, large amounts (in fact  a majority) of that money goes to firms run by people with close personal or financial links to the government, many of those firms buy goods which are not fit for purpose and the overall cost to the taxpayer is much, much higher than it should have been. not to mention the death toll/illness among NHS staff as a result of no PPE) And the government "delays" publishing contract records!!! I think the most answer is that it stinks of corruption. Ayanda Capital...never existed until the weeks, or so, before it tendered for a PPE contract. It had two employees; a husband and wife who were also the only directors. Its business address was there home address. Mr Ayanda Capitol was a former advisor to the Business Secretary and then a Parliamentary Lobbyist. They got a multi million £ contrct, bought a load of useless, as in unfit for use, PPE and then the directors, Mr &Mrs Ayanda Capital decided to award themselves IN EXCESS OF £1MILLION EACH. I wonder why the government were not in a hurry to publish the details of that contract. Actually, I am shocked that no-one is in prison as a result of that.

[lostinwales]

I still feel that in general the government is a car crash but there are positive signs that someone, somewhere is getting more on top of things. It isn't Johnson, that is one thing we can say for sure. Too busy on his plans for the Isle of Man underground roundabout.

Still too little in the way of responsibility or consequences. The government spends our money on lawyers to defend their actions, which are found to be illegal. Nothing happens. Media not interested therefore it didn't happen at all.

Back to the good news. The thing that struck me about the latest roadmap, was that it had detail. I have no idea how realistic it all is but actual detail is not something this government ever seems to do.

Interesting. Based on what, exactly? Think the departure of Cummings and Cain may not be entirely unrelated.

You'll have to explain the obviously hilarious in-joke re. an 'Isle of Man underground roundabout', at least for me, I'm afraid.

Who knows? Maybe the reasons Hancock's office didn't publish whatever contract records they should have published right on time was because they actually were quite busy at that point and did, indeed, prioritise other things. Just a suggestion.

As for the media, they are all clearly in UKG's pocket as they're a party to not telling us the real story. Obviously. Could it be that a) a court said Hancock's office got it wrong and b) Hancock's reasons for so doing are such that, whether you like/agree or not, there's nowhere really to go? Still, I guess the media might be investigating stuff before publishing because it might take a bit of time to find stuff out, check it and then to see if anything is worth publishing.

The Isle of Man roundabout. There has been a crazy idea that there should be a tunnel built from the mainland to Northern Ireland. The latest version of this included 3 tunnels (2 from the mainland) all meeting under the Isle of Man in sub kind of subterranean roundabout. It is very much in the same line as the bridge from Scotland to NI, garden bridge in London etc. There is no chance of it happening, and yet Johnson has talked about it. In my mind that either means they want it as a distraction or people around Johnson don't mind him looking like an idiot, again (or both).

Johnson never does detail. As said I think it is interesting that the document they have produced does do detail. I don't know if it will be enough but there have been so few moments of actual governmental competence in recent months that it genuinely feels like a positive step for once.

I haven't read enough detail about the court case. I do think it is concerning that there was a trial which judged Hancock to have acted unlawfully and yet there are no consequences, apart from Hancock appearing on the media and saying something along the lines that his ex pub landlord really needed a multimillion pound PPE contract because running a pub during Covid wasn't working out well.

It is, or should be, a big deal. You would have thought that at least there should be some review of the process and the effectiveness of the contracts handed out to date. I know he talked about expedience, but the biggest concern for me, obviously not an expert, is that contracts seemed to go to any old idiot with the telephone number for a factory in China rather than people whose actual business was producing or sourcing PPE. The fact that all too often that 'any old idiot' had demonstrable ties to Hancock or the Conservative party raises serious questions.

[BamBam]

In return for backing Cummings so vociferously, cabinet ministers are bulletproof

[BamBam]

What are people's thoughts on vaccine passports? Seems like its at a minimum going to be a requirement for international travel so I'm all for it.

I'd imagine the loudest complaints will come from a certain part of society, but as we've seen over the last few years, promising that the passports will be blue has been a proven method to get those types to fall into line

[lostinwales]

I always assumed the old passports were black.

[navyblueshorts]

https://metro.co.uk/2021/02/21/boris-wants-to-build-giant-roundabout-under-the-isle-of-man-14120356/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9283331/Boris-Johnson-wants-giant-ROUNDABOUT-Isle-Man-connect-Britain-Northern-Ireland.html

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1400651/boris-johnson-roundabout-isle-of-man-irish-sea-tunnel-brexit-news

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tunnel-vision-now-pm-sets-his-sights-on-a-roundabout-under-the-isle-of-man-cg9523lxp

Pick your source

Ta. Like one description of it as a 'Führer Bunker'. That said, who says it's more than an idea that some were asked to investigate feasibility of? Anything and everything appear to get leaked from Whitehall these days. God knows what the cost would be, but perhaps a more obvious gain than HS2?

[navyblueshorts]

What are people's thoughts on vaccine passports? Seems like its at a minimum going to be a requirement for international travel so I'm all for it....

Can't see a real issue w/ it, but there may be some ethical/discrimination issues I can't immediately think of. Anything that hits the anti-vax people where it hurts is good for me. Anyone w/ medical reasons for exemptions re. vaccinations should have no problem in confirming such I would think.

[dummy_half]

The 'iconic' blue passport only existed between 1922 and 1988 (my first passport was a traditional navy blue with the paper inserts near the top and bottom of the cover). We've had the burgundy covered ones for almost half as long as the blue one, and I suspect probably issued more burgundy ones.

Of course the new, much vaunted, blue passport is black...
Yes, perhaps issuing new 'proper' blue passports for those who've had a Covid vaccination might encourage uptake amongst certain groups.

[Duty281]

I will edit misinformation that I consider disrespectful and insulting. If you can’t respect that, they’ll be changed more firmly.

[BamBam]

What if you were allowed to pick the precise shade of blue, Duty? Surely that takes priority over all other arguments!

[jimbopip]

There is the possibility that instead of "mad" which is one of those abstract, catch all blame no-one for anything specific, terms maybecthis government should be judged in terms of "competence", " legality:" and " honesty". With specific ministers being held accountable for specific actions.
Or we could just hold an annual Festival Of Celebration to thank Boris for delivering us from Europe.

[Soul Requiem]

Vaccine passports must be opposed.

Why?

Seems common sense to me to implement such a measure.

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