England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

First topic message reminder :

First winter tour for England confirmed today: three T20s and three ODIs in South Africa from the 27th November-9th December.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/54537709

A possible limited-overs tour of Pakistan, which would be England's first trip to that country since 2005, as well as visits to Sri Lanka and India may also go ahead in early 2021.

alfie wrote:

JDizzle wrote:Striking at 87 and manoeuvring the spinners as he did was superb from Root. Him or Bairstow needs to go big with contributions from Lawrence and Buttler if England are going to get ahead of the game though. Have to aim to bat all through tomorrow at the bare minimum, and ideally till lunch on Day 4 with how the wicket is going to break down.

Road map pretty well what they did in the first Test from a similar position at end of day one. Difference is this time they are chasing 381 not 135

But if they can (A) Turn this into 350/4 again ; and then (B) Not throw away the last six wickets in a mad rush...then they could be in the game.

To be honest I am finding it hard to see a way for England to win from here - time/runs , two days gone already ; but after losing the toss and conceding nearly 400 I'd take a draw.  Not suggesting they should abandon hopes of winning ; but let's get a lead first and then see where we are rather than any kamikaze rubbish...

On the likely result I'm going to put my head above the parapet and say that I think this pitch will misbehave latter in the Test and go very suddenly when it does. That combined with both batting lineups being capable of a collapse means I think a win both ways is still possible.

England will need to bat most of tomorrow though to put themselves in a reasonable position to chase in the 4th innings.

On the day as a whole, I thought Dickwella batted superbly early on. England were attacking him and he went after them in return. A good hand from Perera to support him as well.

For England we realistically learned a lot of stuff we already knew. Anderson is our best bowler, Root our best bat, Wood will run in hard all day when fit, the spin department isn't the best and our openers against spin are an issue.

Embuldeniya summed up the final two points well by taking 2 wickets in his opening 4 overs.

Batting through a whole day with just 3 batsmen left would be a hell of an achievement, they did post an excellent score batting second in the first test but had much more time on a good surface thanks to Sri Lankas collapse. Of course this is assuming the pitch will suddenly disintegrate tomorrow, but even if it doesn't its a tough ask to bat through the day. That would only take England to around parity with Sri Lanka and batting last.

So the chances of forcing a win perhaps then do rely more on the pitch falling apart, England just need to hope this happens at the end of their innings and is quite dramatic turning what's left of the game into a bit of a lottery.  

If it stays docile the very best they can hope for is Sri Lanka batting too long and them being able to hang on for a draw.  Getting a result of any type will be tough, and batting second in Asia a decent achievement even given the opposition.

Anyway Englands short term task is pretty clear, rack up as many runs as they can. That means the senior bats staying in but also continuing to milk the low risk runs. Root has been absolutely at his best doing that but needs a lot of backup.

Whether England do pull something off here or not its the same problems. The openers are a real issue, and the bowlers struggle on flat decks. No magic wand to fix that for India (Archer, Burns, Stokes?). Better start winning some tosses.


Also quick note to apologise to the England selectors. The decision to rotate Broad and Anderson has turned out to be pretty smart with both bowling some of their best, but also bowling far more overs than would be ideal were they playing back to back tests with another long series coming up shortly after.

Gooseberry wrote:Whether England do pull something off here or not its the same problems. The openers are a real issue, and the bowlers struggle on flat decks. No magic wand to fix that for India (Archer, Burns, Stokes?). Better start winning some tosses.

Archer and Stokes, yes. If used cleverly they could be very valuable in India. With Bumrah playing Tests in India for the first time I think the pitches might be prepared with a bit more in it for the quicks as well.

Burns, not so sure. He plays spin better than Sibley in my opinion but still isn't great and Ashwin bowls very well to left-hand bats. The openers are still an issue in sub-continent conditions. Sibley in my opinion has a game that should do well in Australian conditions thinking longer term though.

One thing in England's favour looking ahead to the India series is that most our batsman are right-handed which works in our favour against Ashwin. It's also a tough blow for India to lose Jadeja in that respect. Nasser Hussain mentioned yesterday that rumours out of India are that Jadeja might miss the whole series.

Stokes is the obvious left-hand bat of note but he also plays spins very well.

For a change I think England's biggest issue will be taking 20 wickets in India. Rohit averages about 90 in India. Pujara, Kohli and Rahane are class batsman. Gill and Pant are very talented and can take a game away in a session. It's a fantastic batting lineup forming for India.

JDizzle wrote:

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Gotta love the delusional English cricket reporters like Johnathan Agnew, the pathetic Joe Root gets cheap runs against a terrible Sri Lankan side and that clown proclaimed ‘Root is as good as Williamson, Smith and Kohli’. Always good to start the morning with a laugh.

Given the pathetic Root averages more Smith and Williamson in Asia, I think they probably could learn from watching him tbf.

https://twitter.com/ohlookitswill_/status/1352964306028081155?s=21

Just going to leave this here

So Joe Root can do it in more countries than flat track bully and cheat Steve Smith?

Dravid, Chanderpaul and Graeme Smith averaging that high in England is insanely good.

Border averaging 65 in England across 25 Tests as well.

The way Cook put it recently was that Root has possibly more talent the Smith and Williamson, but hasn't had the same metronomic approach to batting which has stopped him getting the big scores so often. Theres times where he stops playing the ball the same way he was early in an innings, whereas Smith in particular just does the same thing and plays the same way whether on 0, 99 or 100.

Its something Root was working specifically on with the analysts during the lockdown break last year. Signs were there last test that it had paid off, lets see if he can back that up tomorrow.

Root is absolutely a better shot player than Smith, his white ball stats show that. As a test bat you cant argue that he's achieved as much as Smith has. As much as I dislike the chap his stats don't lie, he has an incredibly good basic method and the ability to maintain concentration that makes him incredibly hard to get out. Sure there's some element of padding with a big string of tests played on soft wickets and not having to face doctored balls like some, but he's still the only modern batsman to average over 60 for an extended period of years. If you cant argue with Bess' 5 fer you cant argue with Smiths average.

Of course no-one ever mentions Williamson playing on absolute pancakes in New Zealand and having a higher percentage of tests against poor opposition that Smith/Kholi/Root because no-one good really wants to play NZ in long series, its just not fashionable to dislike a Kiwi. (Last time he batted in Sri Lanka he made 0, 4 and 20) There's always someone there desperate to pull down Smith (who does genuinely have himself to blame to some extent), Kholi and Root. Its not quite been the level of Ponting vs Tendulkar at least.

There's always going to be a question about Roots place in the fab 4 whilst he's struggled to keep an average over 50 (Something that pretty much didn't exist in the 90s) as a result of a lack of centuries. If he has sorted that out now good on him. It is possible for more than one batsman to be good, and celebrating one does not mean fans of others need to be mortally offended.

Pundits may have got a bit carried away fawning over Roots batting here, but he's been a step above any other player in the series so far. Its not just the runs but the way he's got them, and that English batsman have historically really struggled to play the way he has. Either they've tended to bogged down ( a la Bairstow at the other end) or relied on high risk aggressive shots leading to spectacular collapses. Its notable that Roots been part of stopping two of those so far (although was nearly part of one second digs last test) which again is why he's getting so much fanboying. Not just the runs but the circumstances he's getting them in.

Still he needs to go back and keeping batting as he did today, treating every ball on its merits and scoring low risk runs tomorrow and through the day to get England fully out of the hole they are in. If he fails its not proof he's pathetic, but if he can make a big score then bodes very well that he might finally be making the best of his ability to get good starts.

Funny how Root with his superior ability goes missing in Australia. I
mean the pitches are as dead as the dodo yet Root soils his underwear as soon as the ball bounces over waist height.

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Funny how Root with his superior ability goes missing in Australia. I
mean the pitches are as dead as the dodo yet Root soils his underwear as soon as the ball bounces over waist height.

Similar could be said of Smith with the short ball. His figures against South Africa with Steyn and Morkel, then latterly Rabada are much worse than his overall record. Archer gave him some grief as well on pretty dead wickets. Whereas Root has done well against South Africa home and away.

Smith is a brilliant player and I don't think anyone here denies that. Root is very good as well though.

Caveats can be put on any players achievements. Hayden and Sehwag were brilliant openers for instance but both scored far, far better in familiar conditions and frequently struggled abroad. Doesn't change the fact that they won their sides an enormous number of Tests in suitable conditions by smashing opposition attacks to all parts.

When we were doing the team of the century not so long ago I picked Cook and Smith as the openers for their ability overseas. Smith was incredible against swing bowling while Cook was great against spin, Hayden however excelled at home rather than away.

Courtney Walsh 77 wickets at 20.5 in Asia

Walsh was simply brilliant. Many of his wickets came in weakening attacks as well as that great Windies era drew to a close with Walsh and Ambrose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vmAhKkfhNs&ab_channel=ChrisJapan

A different topic but I found that old documentary about Windies players in the Lancashire leagues earlier today. It's a really good watch for anyone interested. I knew Wes Hall was quick, a brilliant cricketer and a big bloke but I didn't realise how physically imposing he was until seeing team photos with him alongside mortals rather than other Windies colossuses. What an athlete.

Just for clarity the Nathaniel character is one of a long running line of troll accounts that specialised in attacking whoever was the star England player of a given time whilst masquerading as various nationalities.

That said Root in Aus ...he's only played two series there, one of which was his year in test cricket. The first was a struggle, not helped by getting chucked in at number 3 but also he struggled with the express pace, as did all Englands batsmen (inc Cook and KP). The last tour he averaged 47 which is hardly "going missing" and shows he's improved against hostile pace bowling.

Smith in the Ashes ...his first one (at home) was nearly as bad as Roots so I guess we get to right him off as going missing. Till you see since then, his records been ridiculous and is hard to argue against. He should go down as one of the greatest Ashes bats of all time and clearly has a psychological edge on England.

He's still an odious individual though.

king_carlos wrote:

alfie wrote:

JDizzle wrote:Striking at 87 and manoeuvring the spinners as he did was superb from Root. Him or Bairstow needs to go big with contributions from Lawrence and Buttler if England are going to get ahead of the game though. Have to aim to bat all through tomorrow at the bare minimum, and ideally till lunch on Day 4 with how the wicket is going to break down.

Road map pretty well what they did in the first Test from a similar position at end of day one. Difference is this time they are chasing 381 not 135

But if they can (A) Turn this into 350/4 again ; and then (B) Not throw away the last six wickets in a mad rush...then they could be in the game.

To be honest I am finding it hard to see a way for England to win from here - time/runs , two days gone already ; but after losing the toss and conceding nearly 400 I'd take a draw.  Not suggesting they should abandon hopes of winning ; but let's get a lead first and then see where we are rather than any kamikaze rubbish...

On the likely result I'm going to put my head above the parapet and say that I think this pitch will misbehave latter in the Test and go very suddenly when it does. That combined with both batting lineups being capable of a collapse means I think a win both ways is still possible.

England will need to bat most of tomorrow though to put themselves in a reasonable position to chase in the 4th innings.

England need to try to get level and hope they can win a one-innings shoot-out. But the pitch is likely to start misbehaving at some point on day three, so I think Sri Lanka will get (at least) a fifty run lead putting them in a near-impregnable position.

Not certain this pitch is going to "go" as quickly as that... So far it looks like being more slow turner than spitting cobra. Was nothing there at all day one , gave a bit more yesterday (though that showed up more because Embuldeniya in particular is a much more dangerous bowler than the England pair)...Yes it should turn more today but probably won't be a monster if batsmen keep their heads.

England really should aim to bat all day. If they can do so they will likely be up around parity...so if they still have wickets in hand could be able to get a useful lead and pressure the home team as the pitch deteriorates further on day four. I realise this is an ideal scenario for England ! Sri Lanka certainly in the more comfortable position right now ; but not impregnable - yet...

Was shaping up to be a quiet start, but Bairstow falls to Embuldeniya off an inside edge. Wasn't originally given, very poor decision from the umpire, but DRS works as it should. 

Lawrence in now, then Buttler, then not an awful lot.

Embuldeniya does the business again... Bairstow didn't really get going again this morning so Lawrence comes in again in a challenging position.

Root playing brilliantly but there is not a lot of reliable batting to come. On the other hand it is really all Embuldeniya and even he will get tired eventually.

Stroke of luck for Lawrence ! Not the easiest take for Dickwella but he was dead if he'd gathered it...

Jittery start for the young man today.

Yeah England are going to lose this one

Starting to see some bigger turn and Lawrence (never looked comfortable) is the fourth to fall to Embuldeniya. England in quite a bit of bother.

Oops.  Lawrence didn't look as happy this morning as last week...no surprise he's gone quickly.

England in a spot of trouble...

Should never have had the banana break

Another century for Joe Root.

Draws him level with Len Hutton.

Joe Root with an (inevitable?) century...top effort

Nathaniel probably disagrees ; but I reckon this has been an excellent innings.

Probably need him to double it . Meanwhile I am pleased to see Buttler is looking to play his shots ; think he has to do so . If he just tries to stonewall one will be coming for him sooner or later.

Should be a little easier when Embuldeniya is out of the attack for a spell...

That hits the ground

Isn't that one the umpires usually check for themselves, rather than needing a player to review it? Anyway, right decision.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:That hits the ground

Good thing they had that second angle. First shot looked as if it might have gone straight to boot. DRS does its job

Trailing by 200 at lunch, Root keeping everything together. Similar to yesterday evening: England lose two quick wickets, then a decent partnership starts to rescue a perilous position. 

Only Embuldeniya has really threatened England, though it's been some threat. 

England will need Root and Buttler to continue the resistance for at least a majority of the afternoon session if they're to get a decent result in this test.

Lunch. 181/4 Just about saved the follow on anyway

Probably need these two to get another hundred , as I'm not sure this pitch will suit the Curran style... Embuldeniya has bowled twenty overs so if they can wear him down...

Duty281 wrote:Trailing by 200 at lunch, Root keeping everything together. Similar to yesterday evening: England lose two quick wickets, then a decent partnership starts to rescue a perilous position. 

Only Embuldeniya has really threatened England, though it's been some threat. 

England will need Root and Buttler to continue the resistance for at least a majority of the afternoon session if they're to get a decent result in this test.

Hope Leach picks up some hints from watching him re how to bowl on this...

England right in the soup here despite roots pathetic ton arent they

Gooseberry wrote:England right in the soup here despite roots pathetic ton arent they

Yeah all these cheap runs ... Anyone would think he could actually play a bit - if we didn't know better

Perversely he seems to be struggling a bit now he's passed 100, runs stopped flowing

200 up...still 17 overs to the new ball. England will want to make the most of these periods when Embuldeniya isn't bowling. The rest of them really aren't presenting anything like the same problems.

Obviously a lot depends on how long these two can bat. I do like the way they are going about it at present ; not doing anything silly (unless you are of the old fashioned view that reverse sweeps are evil.) but collecting runs quite regularly ; and Sri Lanka might just be starting to get a bit impatient for another break.

Makes a change from dogs trespassing on the field : giant lizard I wouldn't want to argue with

Mendis to have another bowl. Thought he'd been forgotten...

Gooseberry wrote:Perversely he seems to be struggling a bit now he's passed 100, runs stopped flowing

Not sure he's struggling , exactly. The runs have certainly dried up a bit - though since Buttler is scoring quite smoothly now it doesn't matter too much : I suspect he's doing what we all urge him to do and concentrating hard on going on for a big score , knowing the team is very dependant on him...

Also he's not had a lot of the strike lately .

Fifty for Buttler

Needed him to play an innings here . Still need him to go on...

Root not failing to deal with a full toss. Rare error from Embuldeniya.

Drinks 223/4. Good hour for England

A nothing hour for Sri Lanka with, er, nothing happening for them. Root and Buttler gradually pushing England to safety.

But just one wicket will test England's questionable depth, and they're still 158 adrift.

Duty281 wrote: Root and Buttler gradually pushing England to safety.

That's a wildly optimistic view of the position. They aren't even within 150 of Sri Lanka and have to bat last with Curran next in. Toward yes but they are paddling the length of the amazon upstream here!

Buttler's push has ended, I think. Near-identical to the one he reviewed, except this time the ball didn't hit the ground.

Yep, he's gone.

Out out out

Yeah long way to go. Suspect Duty has tongue in cheek there...

Buttler is gone this time...bat to boot to catcher...like the previous one but this time drs is against him

Good knock for 55. But Root needs support from the tail now...

Mendis will be happy with a wicket after getting smashed last night.

Odd way to get out but I feared it was out even watching it live.

Curran was good previous trip to Sri Lanka. Hope he can reprise that form...

That was not out - second angle, like the earlier review, showed it hit the ground - nowhere near enough to overturn the on field decision, a game changing mistake from the third umpire

Can Curran survive a ball for the first time this tour?

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:That was not out - second angle, like the earlier review, showed it hit the ground - nowhere near enough to overturn the on field decision, a game changing mistake from the third umpire

Think you were watching a different vision , Olly ! That was clearly straight to boot.

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:That was not out - second angle, like the earlier review, showed it hit the ground - nowhere near enough to overturn the on field decision, a game changing mistake from the third umpire

Think you were watching a different vision , Olly !  That was clearly straight to boot.

No way for me Alfie - if that one was out, so was the one earlier today. Side on clearly showed it bounced before boot again, but the third umpire randomly had made his mind up on the front on view, which isn’t the way to judge those decisions. Very poor

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:That was not out - second angle, like the earlier review, showed it hit the ground - nowhere near enough to overturn the on field decision, a game changing mistake from the third umpire

Thank you, Olly. I was beginning to think it was just my old eyes letting me down. Although the ball certainly hit the boot, I wasn't sure it didn't also go into the ground in doing so. Doubt remained for me and so I too would have stayed with the onfield decision of not out.

I thought it was pretty clear that it was out, to be honest.

Anyway, Root passes KP on the all-time England test runs list. At the other end Curran is struggling quite badly.

Balls really spinning for Perara now, be a miracle if England bat out another 100 here. Fancy Englands best hope of avoiding the loss is how poor Sri Lankas over rate has been

Think you are in a minority there , Olly. Commentators reckon it was correctly judged , even after viewing all the shots.

The earlier one could be seen to bounce in front of the boot - just. This one certainly looked to me to be out.

Are you chaps sure you weren't looking at a comparative replay of the earlier incident ?