The Trump Presidency

First topic message reminder :

Well we'll wait and see about Arizona. Pundits seem to think it's a done deal; they don't seem to have considered it's only Election Day votes left to count.

Ohio called, but Texas and Florida not, which is very poor. Iowa should be called soon for Trump. Trump with healthy leads in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania...he needs 'em if Arizona's going blue.

Georgia seems to be faltering for Trump, but he's still ahead for now. North Carolina's probably in recount territory. unless Trump has more votes to secure it.

This mainstream media bias is quite something. Trump 49-48 ahead in Montana, 50% voted...oh yeah, that's too close to call. Trump 50-48 ahead in Virginia, 76% voted....oh yeah, we're calling that for Biden.

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:(what is it, exactly, that you want from him? To run a marathon?).

To have the mental capacity to do the job.

Your evidence/examples that he doesn't are?

How long have you got?! Confusing the All Blacks with the Black and Tans; calling Rishi Sunak 'Rashi Sanook' (and appearing to ignore him at a handshake); calling Trump 'George''; saying the USA has 54 states; claiming he spoke to the person who invented insulin (the person in question died before Biden was born); saying his son died when he was in Iraq (he didn't); confusing the war in Iraq with the one in Ukraine; muddling up the names of two of his grandchildren; and numerous times during campaign rallies getting the state which he was in confused with a different state.

Those are just off the top of my head. He's made dozens, possibly hundreds, more if you search for them.

Who cares about 'Rashi Sanook'? Assuming that's actually what he said.
No-one invented insulin.
Re. his son, could it possibly be (as he's alleged many times) that in his view he did die in Iraq due to his opinion his cancer was due to burn pit exposure?

Re. the rest, who cares? Well, I guess apparently US voters do to be fair. Let me say it again for the hard of hearing - I'd rather someone who occasionally stumbles over something in a speech, but otherwise does a decent job, than a snake oil salesman with all the patter, but no substance. He clearly has a problem convincing voters due to age, but I'm not sure it would bother me given the various evidence.

Who cares? Well you asked for evidence of a decline in mental capacity and there it is. I appreciate it doesn't fit with your view, but you can't brush off these things as occasionally stumbling over words in a speech.

'Rashi Sanook' - of course he said it. Link below. And he didn't stumble over it in the sense of 'Rashi Sanook, sorry, I mean Rishi Sunak', he legitimately thought the guy's name was Rashi Sanook. I don't think it would have been treated in the same way if Trump had said this.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2022/oct/25/rashi-sanook-joe-biden-rishi-sunak-name-video

Correct about insulin. But I guess Biden was just stumbling over his words, yeah?

"It was invented by a man who did not patent it because he wanted it available for everyone. I spoke to him, OK?"

However, insulin, a hormone produced in the body, was never invented, but was discovered by Sir Frederick Banting. The late physician and scientist died at the age of 49 on February 21, 1941. Biden was born on November 20, 1942.

https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/united-states/joe-biden-says-he-spoke-to-man-who-invented-insulin-despite-him-dying-before-the-us-president-was-born/news-story/b79b7959c83fbdb1f7ede30a7f76738b

With regards to his son, he specifically said Iraq was where his son had died.

"He said: “They talk about inflation… inflation is a worldwide problem right now because of a war in Iraq and the impact on oil and what Russia ’s doing… excuse me, the war in Ukraine."

President Biden claimed he became confused because that's where his son died: "I’m thinking about Iraq because that’s where my son died.”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/president-joe-biden-mistakenly-says-28397553

You say Biden's done a decent job. What would you say are his main achievements in office? Trump had many good achievements, but I'm struggling to think of many for Biden.

Good post; appreciated.

Re. 'Rashi Sanook', I'm afraid I really couldn't care less about such a triviality, but I guess some do. If that's the level by which global politics is measured, we're more FUBAR than I thought.

Re. Biden's son/Iraq. Did you read what I wrote? I'll allow Biden the interpretation that he feels his son was on borrowed time once he'd been to Iraq, ergo he feels that's where he died.

Re. Iraq/Ukraine, what do you expect? He corrected himself instantly in the quote you cite and I addressed the Beau Biden/Iraq part.

The insulin bit I have no answer for!

I'd say that simply fire fighting the Poopie that Trump left behind is a major achievement on its own. Trump did almost nothing except sign Executive Orders and grift from my recollection. I'm not sure why I'm even that bothered as neither are, or will be, a President of mine. If I was a U.S. citizen, I'd vote Biden over Trump every time.

Don't have time to address all those in detail - ought to be working!
Disagree that he got voted out because of Covid. Although it was partly because of his mishandling of it.
Drug prices - yes (shock! But The GOP/Trump = bad! Yet I agree with this - how is that even possible!?)
Oil production - would rather he moved away from fossil fuels, so disagree that was good.
Animal abuse - surely the result of bipartisan cooperation on the bill, not Trump.
Not sure any President has that much influence on wages/poverty - wouldn't agree Trump is directly responsible for that, unless there were specific laws about that.
Would argue that despite the LGBT+ appointment, overall he did more harm than good to the LGBT+ community e.g. opposition to the Equality Act, appointing anti-LGBT+ judges
He personally defeated ISIS?
Parental leave - yes, good of him to adopt a policy that Democrats had been working for a long time to get implemented. You give Trump all the credit for that?

the-goon2 wrote:And crime a close 2nd.

More and more ppl are seeing how progressive left wing policies lead to more crime.

Anyone else getting "Old Man Yells at Cloud" vibes?

What I say about Trump is -
We’re all pretending we’ve got a lot to show for it, because admitting what a disaster it’s been is too tough to digest. But come on. There really isn’t an upside to Trump.

Oh wait - that's what Tucker Carlson said.

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:(what is it, exactly, that you want from him? To run a marathon?).

To have the mental capacity to do the job.

Your evidence/examples that he doesn't are?

Not falling asleep when meeting foreign dignitaries would be a good idea to dissuade doubters.....Maybe not accusing the All black rugby team of atrocities in Ireland could be another good idea....

I know you seem to be in a churlish mood lately....but if you can't tell Biden suffers cognitively then there isn't much hope for you...

You're not 'listening', are you? Plus ça change. Even if he did fall asleep sometime, I'm afraid that's not evidence of insufficient mental capacity to do what he has to do; it's arguably evidence he needed some well-earned(?) rest. Try harder .

If I was American, I'd want a President who appears to be able to get policy done...

If normal "workers" kept falling asleep on the job they would get sacked as well you know....If it was Trump you'd be saying it's terrible.

Biden lost the House in 2022.....So policy is a sensitive issue for him ??..Gridlocked..

Keep up dear boy..

Didn't Trump fall asleep during the Queens' Speech?
Some meetings are really dull, especially after a nice lunch.

GOP National poll WH26....(Morning consult).

Trump 58
DeSantis 21%

DeSantis is slipping but It's close in Iowa the first State to primary/Caucus.....Generally anyone that does well there takes momentum in to New Hampshire.....

Obama was a big underdog against Hillary in 08 and pulled it out (The win that is) and People realised he could win.....

A long time to go but Trump must be pleased his various legal difficulties aren't hurting him against the paucity of talent in the GOP.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:(what is it, exactly, that you want from him? To run a marathon?).

To have the mental capacity to do the job.

Your evidence/examples that he doesn't are?

Not falling asleep when meeting foreign dignitaries would be a good idea to dissuade doubters.....Maybe not accusing the All black rugby team of atrocities in Ireland could be another good idea....

I know you seem to be in a churlish mood lately....but if you can't tell Biden suffers cognitively then there isn't much hope for you...

You're not 'listening', are you? Plus ça change. Even if he did fall asleep sometime, I'm afraid that's not evidence of insufficient mental capacity to do what he has to do; it's arguably evidence he needed some well-earned(?) rest. Try harder .

If I was American, I'd want a President who appears to be able to get policy done...

If normal "workers" kept falling asleep on the job they would get sacked as well you know....If it was Trump you'd be saying it's terrible.

Biden lost the House in 2022.....So policy is a sensitive issue for him ??..Gridlocked..

Keep up dear boy..

Sleeping and getting sacked wasn't/isn't a part of the conversation. This is specifically about mental capacity to do his job. Going to sleep occasionally is no prima facie evidence to the contrary . Sorry to disappoint you, but long since 'kept up' and left you in the dust...

We only get secondary effects from internal US policy. But Trump was catastrophic for external relations (basically appearing to be jealous of the powers of dictators and as for Ukraine, effectively offering guns for made up lies about relatives of political opponents.....)

There is also the grifting / 6th Jan. secret documents fiasco. Any of those should be enough to kill his political hopes stone dead. Then there are the business practices, tax avoidance etc. He genuinely brings his former office into disrepute, and too much of the GOP seems to be following his path.

lostinwales wrote:We only get secondary effects from internal US policy. But Trump was catastrophic for external relations (basically appearing to be jealous of the powers of dictators and as for Ukraine, effectively offering guns for made up lies about relatives of political opponents.....)

There is also the grifting / 6th Jan. secret documents fiasco. Any of those should be enough to kill his political hopes stone dead. Then there are the business practices, tax avoidance etc. He genuinely brings his former office into disrepute, and too much of the GOP seems to be following his path.

Trump was on 43% at this point in his Presidency where Biden is at 41%.......Trump had regular 7 point leads over Biden and other Dems before his cackhanded leadership over Covid....Because pre-covid...Standard of living went up....More money in pockets...

In the last year of Trump's presidency unemployment was on 3.5% a 50 year low......Nothing wrong with Trump asking Nato members to pay their fair share....Or wanting the USA to be more isolationist after disastrous human lives and dollars were wasted in wars..

If we are going to put all crooked Presidents in the slammer.....

Chester Arthur...Millard Fillmore...Ulysses Grant....Warren Harding.....LBJ....Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton can join him for a start and that is the tip of the iceberg......Did Kennedy's Dad who guided him to the White House ever do anything not crooked ??...

No President has ever been clean..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No President has ever been clean..

Good ol' US of A.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:We only get secondary effects from internal US policy. But Trump was catastrophic for external relations (basically appearing to be jealous of the powers of dictators and as for Ukraine, effectively offering guns for made up lies about relatives of political opponents.....)

There is also the grifting / 6th Jan. secret documents fiasco. Any of those should be enough to kill his political hopes stone dead. Then there are the business practices, tax avoidance etc. He genuinely brings his former office into disrepute, and too much of the GOP seems to be following his path.

Trump was on 43% at this point in his Presidency where Biden is at 41%.......Trump had regular 7 point leads over Biden and other Dems before his cackhanded leadership over Covid....Because pre-covid...Standard of living went up....More money in pockets...

In the last year of Trump's presidency unemployment was on 3.5% a 50 year low......Nothing wrong with Trump asking Nato members to pay their fair share....Or wanting the USA to be more isolationist after disastrous human lives and dollars were wasted in wars..

If we are going to put all crooked Presidents in the slammer.....

Chester Arthur...Millard Fillmore...Ulysses Grant....Warren Harding.....LBJ....Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton can join him for a start and that is the tip of the iceberg......Did Kennedy's Dad who guided him to the White House ever do anything not crooked ??...

No President has ever been clean..

We all know the stats and facts in the first two paragraphs are true, Truss, and also there's been no shortage of dodgy US Presidents. However, I get the feeling that in this day and age it's beginning to be less about the man (or woman potentially) and more about the broader mechanics of the Party Machines themselves. At present, it just seems as though the Democrats are better organised and more 'well oiled' even though there are also huge questions marks as to the means and methods under which they operate. They seemed much more sensitively tuned into the younger vote in particular and were better able to harness the votes of all the other demographics combined.

The Republicans now appear to be more divided than they ever were these last 40 or so years, thanks to Trump. They have huge money behind them as well but the GOP isn't the united force it was in previous times. Note, this is a bit of a world-wide trend in many English-speaking democracies. The tendency to spill the beans on those who are also gunning for control of the party (ooops!) and start ripping themselves apart from the traditional centre-right core and exposing their factions... either to the more moderate side or the else to the populist side. Funny, Labour/Dems, etc also had similar behaviour when they were not running the show. They are experts at self destruction too in their efforts to form a cohesive party and maintain control. The exception is the UK about now... 18 months out from the next GE. Consensus seems to be the Tories are toast. An open goal if there ever was one.

Duty might disagree of course (the recent larger gap in the polls has narrowed, etc) but I simply believe the overall mechanics of the political shift away from the Tories began after the last GE, and naturally was exacerbated by covid, scandals and change of leaders. Even Starmer, who seemed a bit awkward and ineffectual at first (much like Albo here) has managed to stay upright (despite some muddling words too!) but he can probably present as a small target himself whilst sniping at Sunak over the real issues of the economy, cost of living, immigration, health, etc... and touch a few raw voter nerves.

It's almost irrelevant how many gaffs Labour make between now and then. People's minds have already been made up (presumably) and it's really just part of the political cycle that eventually (after all the stuff-ups, scandals) the use by date of the Cons will be well and truly reached. It happened here in Australia - economic indicators were also on the way up again but the people had simply had enough and just wanted a new government with a new direction. Time will tell if that was the right decision. Happened in the US in 2020 after a concerted campaign to get rid of Trump... even (basement) Joe's many, many gaffs were over-looked or ignored. But rather have some of that than more ear-bashing from Trump - regardless of his 'achievements' - real ones which helped many people or the ones which opened old wounds, shocked and further divided many others.

I think this is the new Realpolitik now actually. Ideologies have taken a bit of a back seat in these last few years... drowned out in the daily saturated shrill commentary from the media, political experts, loud mouths within the tw*tter-sphere.

Rationale, morality, truth and a fair and coherent clear cut policy has all been mashed and blended together into a confusing melee; a bit like those blended fruit smoothies which are so popular these days. Is it more apple... or orange? Who knows. Local, national and global politics is all now a bit the same.

Some people must be loving it; especially our main adversaries on the global stage. That's one thing Putin said which was right: 'the West is tearing itself apart'. However, he then made the crude strategic error invading Ukraine which provided the wake-up call which will then galvanise us all back together. Something we can thank Elton John for? Was it a reaction to something he said or did at a concert in Paris or somewhere?

So we can almost forget the 'personality' polls with the choice and quality of candidates these days. In your old country, Truss; it's a choice between Goofy and Yosemite Sam... maybe again. Although some may have a soft spot for Sam (not me... I clearly see his anger and bullying tactics)  the result of the last election showed they'd rather take their chances with Goofy. I don't blame them. I did the same here - I voted for Elmer Fudd rather than Foghorn Leghorn... just for a change of scenery and a fresh set of (scary) faces.  

So it's the massive political machines themselves we have been forced to pay attention to (The Big Picture) and not the poor, pathetic and weak individual candidates - because either way with these sort of cartoon characters: we lose. Let's all hope that we can get some better offerings in the future.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No President has ever been clean..

Good ol' US of A.

That's 8 politicians I named in nearly two hundred years...The rest have various minor sheets..

4 Brit politicians went to the slammer on the Expenses scandal alone....

Blair is a war criminal....Churchill murdered how many millions of  Bengalis ???...They are the UK's greatest leaders.

Politics is a dirty game....Glad you have opened your eyes.

Gee Truss, thanks for opening my eyes. I had no idea politicians could be corrupt.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No President has ever been clean..

Good ol' US of A.

That's 8 politicians I named in nearly two hundred years...The rest have various minor sheets..

4 Brit politicians went to the slammer on the Expenses scandal alone....

Blair is a war criminal....Churchill murdered how many millions of  Bengalis ???...They are the UK's greatest leaders.

Politics is a dirty game....Glad you have opened your eyes.

0, unless you think Churchill is Japanese. Please don't put Blair in the UK's greatest leaders list either, that besmirches the true greats of England and British leadership.

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No President has ever been clean..

Good ol' US of A.

That's 8 politicians I named in nearly two hundred years...The rest have various minor sheets..

4 Brit politicians went to the slammer on the Expenses scandal alone....

Blair is a war criminal....Churchill murdered how many millions of  Bengalis ???...They are the UK's greatest leaders.

Politics is a dirty game....Glad you have opened your eyes.

0, unless you think Churchill is Japanese. Please don't put Blair in the UK's greatest leaders list either, that besmirches the true greats of England and British leadership.

You rewriting History again......

Pal Joey wrote:Duty might disagree of course (the recent larger gap in the polls has narrowed, etc) but I simply believe the overall mechanics of the political shift away from the Tories began after the last GE, and naturally was exacerbated by covid, scandals and change of leaders. Even Starmer, who seemed a bit awkward and ineffectual at first (much like Albo here) has managed to stay upright (despite some muddling words too!) but he can probably present as a small target himself whilst sniping at Sunak over the real issues of the economy, cost of living, immigration, health, etc... and touch a few raw voter nerves.

It's almost irrelevant how many gaffs Labour make between now and then. People's minds have already been made up (presumably) and it's really just part of the political cycle that eventually (after all the stuff-ups, scandals) the use by date of the Cons will be well and truly reached. It happened here in Australia - economic indicators were also on the way up again but the people had simply had enough and just wanted a new government with a new direction. Time will tell if that was the right decision. Happened in the US in 2020 after a concerted campaign to get rid of Trump... even (basement) Joe's many, many gaffs were over-looked or ignored. But rather have some of that than more ear-bashing from Trump - regardless of his 'achievements' - real ones which helped many people or the ones which opened old wounds, shocked and further divided many others..

The Tories successfully renewed in 2019. In early 2019, they were dying without a fight, but Johnson's accession to the leadership won them a big GE victory, and if it weren't for Covid and the various scandals contained within, Johnson would have probably had a premiership as long lasting as Thatcher/Blair with multiple wins. But obviously everything went awry and the Tories bungled the succession and made error after error.

And the public still aren't buying into the Starmer brand, so while Labour *should* win it really isn't set in stone, as far as I can see. Labour have been given gift after gift, especially with the SNP falling apart, but are also making error after error themselves, as the recent attack ads and Abbott's scandal highlight.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No President has ever been clean..

Good ol' US of A.

That's 8 politicians I named in nearly two hundred years...The rest have various minor sheets..

4 Brit politicians went to the slammer on the Expenses scandal alone....

Blair is a war criminal....Churchill murdered how many millions of  Bengalis ???...They are the UK's greatest leaders.

Politics is a dirty game....Glad you have opened your eyes.

0, unless you think Churchill is Japanese. Please don't put Blair in the UK's greatest leaders list either, that besmirches the true greats of England and British leadership.

You rewriting History again......

No, that's me *knowing* history, Truss, not rewriting it.

Like knowing 1784 was when the USA became sovereign, not 1776. But I'll always be here to educate you...

Duty281 wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:Duty might disagree of course (the recent larger gap in the polls has narrowed, etc) but I simply believe the overall mechanics of the political shift away from the Tories began after the last GE, and naturally was exacerbated by covid, scandals and change of leaders. Even Starmer, who seemed a bit awkward and ineffectual at first (much like Albo here) has managed to stay upright (despite some muddling words too!) but he can probably present as a small target himself whilst sniping at Sunak over the real issues of the economy, cost of living, immigration, health, etc... and touch a few raw voter nerves.

It's almost irrelevant how many gaffs Labour make between now and then. People's minds have already been made up (presumably) and it's really just part of the political cycle that eventually (after all the stuff-ups, scandals) the use by date of the Cons will be well and truly reached. It happened here in Australia - economic indicators were also on the way up again but the people had simply had enough and just wanted a new government with a new direction. Time will tell if that was the right decision. Happened in the US in 2020 after a concerted campaign to get rid of Trump... even (basement) Joe's many, many gaffs were over-looked or ignored. But rather have some of that than more ear-bashing from Trump - regardless of his 'achievements' - real ones which helped many people or the ones which opened old wounds, shocked and further divided many others..

The Tories successfully renewed in 2019. In early 2019, they were dying without a fight, but Johnson's accession to the leadership won them a big GE victory, and if it weren't for Covid and the various scandals contained within, Johnson would have probably had a premiership as long lasting as Thatcher/Blair with multiple wins. But obviously everything went awry and the Tories bungled the succession and made error after error.

And the public still aren't buying into the Starmer brand, so while Labour *should* win it really isn't set in stone, as far as I can see. Labour have been given gift after gift, especially with the SNP falling apart, but are also making error after error themselves, as the recent attack ads and Abbott's scandal highlight.

Don't let the magnitude of the disasters that Johnson faced disguise how ill suited he was to being PM. There would have been something. There always was, and I strongly suspect there will be much more to come out about his time in no.10.

lostinwales wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:Duty might disagree of course (the recent larger gap in the polls has narrowed, etc) but I simply believe the overall mechanics of the political shift away from the Tories began after the last GE, and naturally was exacerbated by covid, scandals and change of leaders. Even Starmer, who seemed a bit awkward and ineffectual at first (much like Albo here) has managed to stay upright (despite some muddling words too!) but he can probably present as a small target himself whilst sniping at Sunak over the real issues of the economy, cost of living, immigration, health, etc... and touch a few raw voter nerves.

It's almost irrelevant how many gaffs Labour make between now and then. People's minds have already been made up (presumably) and it's really just part of the political cycle that eventually (after all the stuff-ups, scandals) the use by date of the Cons will be well and truly reached. It happened here in Australia - economic indicators were also on the way up again but the people had simply had enough and just wanted a new government with a new direction. Time will tell if that was the right decision. Happened in the US in 2020 after a concerted campaign to get rid of Trump... even (basement) Joe's many, many gaffs were over-looked or ignored. But rather have some of that than more ear-bashing from Trump - regardless of his 'achievements' - real ones which helped many people or the ones which opened old wounds, shocked and further divided many others..

The Tories successfully renewed in 2019. In early 2019, they were dying without a fight, but Johnson's accession to the leadership won them a big GE victory, and if it weren't for Covid and the various scandals contained within, Johnson would have probably had a premiership as long lasting as Thatcher/Blair with multiple wins. But obviously everything went awry and the Tories bungled the succession and made error after error.

And the public still aren't buying into the Starmer brand, so while Labour *should* win it really isn't set in stone, as far as I can see. Labour have been given gift after gift, especially with the SNP falling apart, but are also making error after error themselves, as the recent attack ads and Abbott's scandal highlight.

Don't let the magnitude of the disasters that Johnson faced disguise how ill suited he was to being PM. There would have been something. There always was, and I strongly suspect there will be much more to come out about his time in no.10.

Churchill was a Racist....A Misogynist.....and spent most of his time getting slaughtered on Whisky......When he wasn't killing 3m Bengalis.

He was voted the Greatest PM....After your brave troops "helped" beat Germany and then voted him out at the first opportunity..

Not sure Johnson was ill suited...Sounds perfect for the job.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:Duty might disagree of course (the recent larger gap in the polls has narrowed, etc) but I simply believe the overall mechanics of the political shift away from the Tories began after the last GE, and naturally was exacerbated by covid, scandals and change of leaders. Even Starmer, who seemed a bit awkward and ineffectual at first (much like Albo here) has managed to stay upright (despite some muddling words too!) but he can probably present as a small target himself whilst sniping at Sunak over the real issues of the economy, cost of living, immigration, health, etc... and touch a few raw voter nerves.

It's almost irrelevant how many gaffs Labour make between now and then. People's minds have already been made up (presumably) and it's really just part of the political cycle that eventually (after all the stuff-ups, scandals) the use by date of the Cons will be well and truly reached. It happened here in Australia - economic indicators were also on the way up again but the people had simply had enough and just wanted a new government with a new direction. Time will tell if that was the right decision. Happened in the US in 2020 after a concerted campaign to get rid of Trump... even (basement) Joe's many, many gaffs were over-looked or ignored. But rather have some of that than more ear-bashing from Trump - regardless of his 'achievements' - real ones which helped many people or the ones which opened old wounds, shocked and further divided many others..

The Tories successfully renewed in 2019. In early 2019, they were dying without a fight, but Johnson's accession to the leadership won them a big GE victory, and if it weren't for Covid and the various scandals contained within, Johnson would have probably had a premiership as long lasting as Thatcher/Blair with multiple wins. But obviously everything went awry and the Tories bungled the succession and made error after error.

And the public still aren't buying into the Starmer brand, so while Labour *should* win it really isn't set in stone, as far as I can see. Labour have been given gift after gift, especially with the SNP falling apart, but are also making error after error themselves, as the recent attack ads and Abbott's scandal highlight.

Don't let the magnitude of the disasters that Johnson faced disguise how ill suited he was to being PM. There would have been something. There always was, and I strongly suspect there will be much more to come out about his time in no.10.

Churchill was a Racist....A Misogynist.....and spent most of his time getting slaughtered on Whisky......When he wasn't killing 3m Bengalis.

He was voted the Greatest PM....After your brave troops "helped" beat Germany and then voted him out at the first opportunity..

Not sure Johnson was ill suited...Sounds perfect for the job.

Yep. Without the victory at the Battle of Britain, Nazi Germany wouldn't have been defeated.

But, by all means, sneer at the sacrifice that millions made so you would have the freedom to write such historically illiterate bile.

lostinwales wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:Duty might disagree of course (the recent larger gap in the polls has narrowed, etc) but I simply believe the overall mechanics of the political shift away from the Tories began after the last GE, and naturally was exacerbated by covid, scandals and change of leaders. Even Starmer, who seemed a bit awkward and ineffectual at first (much like Albo here) has managed to stay upright (despite some muddling words too!) but he can probably present as a small target himself whilst sniping at Sunak over the real issues of the economy, cost of living, immigration, health, etc... and touch a few raw voter nerves.

It's almost irrelevant how many gaffs Labour make between now and then. People's minds have already been made up (presumably) and it's really just part of the political cycle that eventually (after all the stuff-ups, scandals) the use by date of the Cons will be well and truly reached. It happened here in Australia - economic indicators were also on the way up again but the people had simply had enough and just wanted a new government with a new direction. Time will tell if that was the right decision. Happened in the US in 2020 after a concerted campaign to get rid of Trump... even (basement) Joe's many, many gaffs were over-looked or ignored. But rather have some of that than more ear-bashing from Trump - regardless of his 'achievements' - real ones which helped many people or the ones which opened old wounds, shocked and further divided many others..

The Tories successfully renewed in 2019. In early 2019, they were dying without a fight, but Johnson's accession to the leadership won them a big GE victory, and if it weren't for Covid and the various scandals contained within, Johnson would have probably had a premiership as long lasting as Thatcher/Blair with multiple wins. But obviously everything went awry and the Tories bungled the succession and made error after error.

And the public still aren't buying into the Starmer brand, so while Labour *should* win it really isn't set in stone, as far as I can see. Labour have been given gift after gift, especially with the SNP falling apart, but are also making error after error themselves, as the recent attack ads and Abbott's scandal highlight.

Don't let the magnitude of the disasters that Johnson faced disguise how ill suited he was to being PM. There would have been something. There always was, and I strongly suspect there will be much more to come out about his time in no.10.

Yes, there could well have been something else, but pre-Covid Johnson was like teflon, and I think that effect would have lasted longer had it not been for the pandemic.

Duty281 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:Duty might disagree of course (the recent larger gap in the polls has narrowed, etc) but I simply believe the overall mechanics of the political shift away from the Tories began after the last GE, and naturally was exacerbated by covid, scandals and change of leaders. Even Starmer, who seemed a bit awkward and ineffectual at first (much like Albo here) has managed to stay upright (despite some muddling words too!) but he can probably present as a small target himself whilst sniping at Sunak over the real issues of the economy, cost of living, immigration, health, etc... and touch a few raw voter nerves.

It's almost irrelevant how many gaffs Labour make between now and then. People's minds have already been made up (presumably) and it's really just part of the political cycle that eventually (after all the stuff-ups, scandals) the use by date of the Cons will be well and truly reached. It happened here in Australia - economic indicators were also on the way up again but the people had simply had enough and just wanted a new government with a new direction. Time will tell if that was the right decision. Happened in the US in 2020 after a concerted campaign to get rid of Trump... even (basement) Joe's many, many gaffs were over-looked or ignored. But rather have some of that than more ear-bashing from Trump - regardless of his 'achievements' - real ones which helped many people or the ones which opened old wounds, shocked and further divided many others..

The Tories successfully renewed in 2019. In early 2019, they were dying without a fight, but Johnson's accession to the leadership won them a big GE victory, and if it weren't for Covid and the various scandals contained within, Johnson would have probably had a premiership as long lasting as Thatcher/Blair with multiple wins. But obviously everything went awry and the Tories bungled the succession and made error after error.

And the public still aren't buying into the Starmer brand, so while Labour *should* win it really isn't set in stone, as far as I can see. Labour have been given gift after gift, especially with the SNP falling apart, but are also making error after error themselves, as the recent attack ads and Abbott's scandal highlight.

Don't let the magnitude of the disasters that Johnson faced disguise how ill suited he was to being PM. There would have been something. There always was, and I strongly suspect there will be much more to come out about his time in no.10.

Yes, there could well have been something else, but pre-Covid Johnson was like teflon, and I think that effect would have lasted longer had it not been for the pandemic.

During Covid he was still teflon. He got away with stuff that would have ended other politicians careers. He only left after there was a mass exodus of ministers after the Chris Pincher scandal.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:Duty might disagree of course (the recent larger gap in the polls has narrowed, etc) but I simply believe the overall mechanics of the political shift away from the Tories began after the last GE, and naturally was exacerbated by covid, scandals and change of leaders. Even Starmer, who seemed a bit awkward and ineffectual at first (much like Albo here) has managed to stay upright (despite some muddling words too!) but he can probably present as a small target himself whilst sniping at Sunak over the real issues of the economy, cost of living, immigration, health, etc... and touch a few raw voter nerves.

It's almost irrelevant how many gaffs Labour make between now and then. People's minds have already been made up (presumably) and it's really just part of the political cycle that eventually (after all the stuff-ups, scandals) the use by date of the Cons will be well and truly reached. It happened here in Australia - economic indicators were also on the way up again but the people had simply had enough and just wanted a new government with a new direction. Time will tell if that was the right decision. Happened in the US in 2020 after a concerted campaign to get rid of Trump... even (basement) Joe's many, many gaffs were over-looked or ignored. But rather have some of that than more ear-bashing from Trump - regardless of his 'achievements' - real ones which helped many people or the ones which opened old wounds, shocked and further divided many others..

The Tories successfully renewed in 2019. In early 2019, they were dying without a fight, but Johnson's accession to the leadership won them a big GE victory, and if it weren't for Covid and the various scandals contained within, Johnson would have probably had a premiership as long lasting as Thatcher/Blair with multiple wins. But obviously everything went awry and the Tories bungled the succession and made error after error.

And the public still aren't buying into the Starmer brand, so while Labour *should* win it really isn't set in stone, as far as I can see. Labour have been given gift after gift, especially with the SNP falling apart, but are also making error after error themselves, as the recent attack ads and Abbott's scandal highlight.

Don't let the magnitude of the disasters that Johnson faced disguise how ill suited he was to being PM. There would have been something. There always was, and I strongly suspect there will be much more to come out about his time in no.10.

Churchill was a Racist....A Misogynist.....and spent most of his time getting slaughtered on Whisky......When he wasn't killing 3m Bengalis.

He was voted the Greatest PM....After your brave troops "helped" beat Germany and then voted him out at the first opportunity..

Not sure Johnson was ill suited...Sounds perfect for the job.

Stop taking Churchill's position re. race out of its historical context. If you were born in the 19th century, I'd wager you'd have been worse.

He famously disliked Lady Astor. Well done. Again, you do love taking things out of their historical context, don't you?

Whisky? Maybe. Definitely gin, but so what? Are you having a go at his undoubted protected characteristic under the current EQA (see what I did there?) re. his well-documented depression? Or perhaps you think drinking was disgraceful for someone who went through WWII as leader of Britain?

He killed precisely no Bengalis. Sorry, but your absurd position does not make something true, and yet you keep at it. It just makes your obvious insight into various issues compromised. Shame.

Your allusion to the fact British troops only helped in the defeat of Nazi Germany just demeans you I'm afraid. Pathetic. You know why he was voted out, and it was quirky, but understandable. In any case, I think you'll know he had perhaps the last laugh there.

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:Duty might disagree of course (the recent larger gap in the polls has narrowed, etc) but I simply believe the overall mechanics of the political shift away from the Tories began after the last GE, and naturally was exacerbated by covid, scandals and change of leaders. Even Starmer, who seemed a bit awkward and ineffectual at first (much like Albo here) has managed to stay upright (despite some muddling words too!) but he can probably present as a small target himself whilst sniping at Sunak over the real issues of the economy, cost of living, immigration, health, etc... and touch a few raw voter nerves.

It's almost irrelevant how many gaffs Labour make between now and then. People's minds have already been made up (presumably) and it's really just part of the political cycle that eventually (after all the stuff-ups, scandals) the use by date of the Cons will be well and truly reached. It happened here in Australia - economic indicators were also on the way up again but the people had simply had enough and just wanted a new government with a new direction. Time will tell if that was the right decision. Happened in the US in 2020 after a concerted campaign to get rid of Trump... even (basement) Joe's many, many gaffs were over-looked or ignored. But rather have some of that than more ear-bashing from Trump - regardless of his 'achievements' - real ones which helped many people or the ones which opened old wounds, shocked and further divided many others..

The Tories successfully renewed in 2019. In early 2019, they were dying without a fight, but Johnson's accession to the leadership won them a big GE victory, and if it weren't for Covid and the various scandals contained within, Johnson would have probably had a premiership as long lasting as Thatcher/Blair with multiple wins. But obviously everything went awry and the Tories bungled the succession and made error after error.

And the public still aren't buying into the Starmer brand, so while Labour *should* win it really isn't set in stone, as far as I can see. Labour have been given gift after gift, especially with the SNP falling apart, but are also making error after error themselves, as the recent attack ads and Abbott's scandal highlight.

Don't let the magnitude of the disasters that Johnson faced disguise how ill suited he was to being PM. There would have been something. There always was, and I strongly suspect there will be much more to come out about his time in no.10.

Churchill was a Racist....A Misogynist.....and spent most of his time getting slaughtered on Whisky......When he wasn't killing 3m Bengalis.

He was voted the Greatest PM....After your brave troops "helped" beat Germany and then voted him out at the first opportunity..

Not sure Johnson was ill suited...Sounds perfect for the job.

Stop taking Churchill's position re. race out of its historical context. If you were born in the 19th century, I'd wager you'd have been worse.

He famously disliked Lady Astor. Well done. Again, you do love taking things out of their historical context, don't you?

Whisky? Maybe. Definitely gin, but so what? Are you having a go at his undoubted protected characteristic under the current EQA (see what I did there?) re. his well-documented depression? Or perhaps you think drinking was disgraceful for someone who went through WWII as leader of Britain?

He killed precisely no Bengalis. Sorry, but your absurd position does not make something true, and yet you keep at it. It just makes your obvious insight into various issues compromised. Shame.

Your allusion to the fact British troops only helped in the defeat of Nazi Germany just demeans you I'm afraid. Pathetic. You know why he was voted out, and it was quirky, but understandable. In any case, I think you'll know he had perhaps the last laugh there.

So you basically agree that Churchill made a mysogynistic remark to a Lady in a room full of people and didn't think it worth reproach..(According to biographers he was notoriously rude to Women)........You agree he was a racist. ......The 3m Bengalis is on record blah blah....

He was slaughtered a lot...You agree about that..

Yes things like Germany losing hundreds of thousands of troops in the Battle of Stalingrad of which historians point to a major turning in the War...........Countries like the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Russia being involved plus China fighting Japs in Burma.......Means that Britain did "help" win the War....

Anyway I forgive your rather patronising post.....We were taught to rise above such things......Why the US is number 1.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:Duty might disagree of course (the recent larger gap in the polls has narrowed, etc) but I simply believe the overall mechanics of the political shift away from the Tories began after the last GE, and naturally was exacerbated by covid, scandals and change of leaders. Even Starmer, who seemed a bit awkward and ineffectual at first (much like Albo here) has managed to stay upright (despite some muddling words too!) but he can probably present as a small target himself whilst sniping at Sunak over the real issues of the economy, cost of living, immigration, health, etc... and touch a few raw voter nerves.

It's almost irrelevant how many gaffs Labour make between now and then. People's minds have already been made up (presumably) and it's really just part of the political cycle that eventually (after all the stuff-ups, scandals) the use by date of the Cons will be well and truly reached. It happened here in Australia - economic indicators were also on the way up again but the people had simply had enough and just wanted a new government with a new direction. Time will tell if that was the right decision. Happened in the US in 2020 after a concerted campaign to get rid of Trump... even (basement) Joe's many, many gaffs were over-looked or ignored. But rather have some of that than more ear-bashing from Trump - regardless of his 'achievements' - real ones which helped many people or the ones which opened old wounds, shocked and further divided many others..

The Tories successfully renewed in 2019. In early 2019, they were dying without a fight, but Johnson's accession to the leadership won them a big GE victory, and if it weren't for Covid and the various scandals contained within, Johnson would have probably had a premiership as long lasting as Thatcher/Blair with multiple wins. But obviously everything went awry and the Tories bungled the succession and made error after error.

And the public still aren't buying into the Starmer brand, so while Labour *should* win it really isn't set in stone, as far as I can see. Labour have been given gift after gift, especially with the SNP falling apart, but are also making error after error themselves, as the recent attack ads and Abbott's scandal highlight.

Don't let the magnitude of the disasters that Johnson faced disguise how ill suited he was to being PM. There would have been something. There always was, and I strongly suspect there will be much more to come out about his time in no.10.

Churchill was a Racist....A Misogynist.....and spent most of his time getting slaughtered on Whisky......When he wasn't killing 3m Bengalis.

He was voted the Greatest PM....After your brave troops "helped" beat Germany and then voted him out at the first opportunity..

Not sure Johnson was ill suited...Sounds perfect for the job.

Stop taking Churchill's position re. race out of its historical context. If you were born in the 19th century, I'd wager you'd have been worse.

He famously disliked Lady Astor. Well done. Again, you do love taking things out of their historical context, don't you?

Whisky? Maybe. Definitely gin, but so what? Are you having a go at his undoubted protected characteristic under the current EQA (see what I did there?) re. his well-documented depression? Or perhaps you think drinking was disgraceful for someone who went through WWII as leader of Britain?

He killed precisely no Bengalis. Sorry, but your absurd position does not make something true, and yet you keep at it. It just makes your obvious insight into various issues compromised. Shame.

Your allusion to the fact British troops only helped in the defeat of Nazi Germany just demeans you I'm afraid. Pathetic. You know why he was voted out, and it was quirky, but understandable. In any case, I think you'll know he had perhaps the last laugh there.

So you basically agree that Churchill made a mysogynistic remark to a Lady in a room full of people and didn't think it worth reproach..(According to biographers he was notoriously rude to Women)........You agree he was a racist. ......The 3m Bengalis is on record blah blah....

He was slaughtered a lot...You agree about that..

Yes things like Germany losing hundreds of thousands of troops in the Battle of Stalingrad of which historians point to a major turning in the War...........Countries like the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Russia being involved plus China fighting Japs in Burma.......Means that Britain did "help" win the War....

Anyway I forgive your rather patronising post.....We were taught to rise above such things......Why the US is number 1.

Did you hear that sound just then? That was the points I made going over your head. You're not interested in understanding anything and you now appear to simply parrot 'facts' that you allege support the position you already believe to be FACT. Pity, as I often enjoy your knowledge re. US politics and the US Constitution etc.

Sadly, you can't rise above anything.

It was okay to be racist if you were born in the 19th Century..so that's ok

He only abused one woman to your knowledge....so that's ok

Consensus is that Churchill was responsible for 3m Bengalis....But you know better....So that's ok..

Britain did help win the war as part of the Allies....You know better...So that's ok.

Thanks for putting me in my place..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It was okay to be racist if you were born in the 19th Century..so that's ok

He only abused one woman to your knowledge....so that's ok

Consensus is that Churchill was responsible for 3m Bengalis....But you know better....So that's ok..

Britain did help win the war as part of the Allies....You know better...So that's ok.

Thanks for putting me in my place..

There's that mysterious sound again! Did you hear it? I'd stop digging if I were you.... .

It is going wildly off topic, but you know where most of the rice came from that would normally help out in Bangladesh when the crops failed? It was nearby country called (at the time) Burma. Now there was a particular reason why Burma wasn't exporting rice to Bangladesh at the time and that had nothing to do with Churchill.

ABC/WP poll

Trump.....48
Biden......41

Which candidate is in good enough health to serve as President ??

Biden
Yes.....33%
No......62%

Trump
Yes....64%
No.....28%

Who do you think did a better job handling the Economy ??

Trump..54%
Biden...36%

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:ABC/WP poll

Trump.....48
Biden......41

Which candidate is in good enough health to serve as President ??

Biden
Yes.....33%
No......62%

Trump
Yes....64%
No.....28%

Who do you think did a better job handling the Economy ??

Trump..54%
Biden...36%

Interesting.

Biden is getting on in years; he's not unhealthy (but then I wouldn't expect your average polled individual to get that). The idea that Trump is fit is a joke - wouldn't be surprised if he shuffles off quicker than Biden.

As for Trump and the US economy, yep, he really broke the mould there, didn't he? (https://www.statista.com/statistics/188105/annual-gdp-of-the-united-states-since-1990/ or https://www.macrotrends.net/1319/dow-jones-100-year-historical-chart). Awesome. Real Master of The Deal stuff.

If it weren't for the effect on the the UK and the rest of the World, I'd happily watch America reinsert Trump as President and then get the popcorn out for four years...

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:ABC/WP poll

Trump.....48
Biden......41

Which candidate is in good enough health to serve as President ??

Biden
Yes.....33%
No......62%

Trump
Yes....64%
No.....28%

Who do you think did a better job handling the Economy ??

Trump..54%
Biden...36%

Interesting.

Biden is getting on in years; he's not unhealthy (but then I wouldn't expect your average polled individual to get that). The idea that Trump is fit is a joke - wouldn't be surprised if he shuffles off quicker than Biden.

As for Trump and the US economy, yep, he really broke the mould there, didn't he? (https://www.statista.com/statistics/188105/annual-gdp-of-the-united-states-since-1990/ or https://www.macrotrends.net/1319/dow-jones-100-year-historical-chart). Awesome. Real Master of The Deal stuff.

If it weren't for the effect on the the UK and the rest of the World, I'd happily watch America reinsert Trump as President and then get the popcorn out for four years...

Standard of living went up under Trump for two years....it was Covid that reversed it.......Not that Trump did anything to raise the standard of living he just inherited a recovering from Bush economy.

But it went up as did jobs......

How many Americans want a sexual predator as President?
More than you'd think, no doubt, given how f*cked up America is at the moment.

JuliusHMarx wrote:How many Americans want a sexual predator as President?
More than you'd think, no doubt, given how f*cked up America is at the moment.

Currently choice is a seual predator - and let's be honest no-one can deny that is the case. Trump condemned himself on tape.

The other option is the increasingly frail and often muddled Biden who will be oldest President ever should he be re-elected.

And to think I wonder what will happen should Starmer get in....

One of the most Liberal States in America finding Trump guilty...Shock of shocks....

Still sex scandals are nothing knew....Gerald Ford banging German spies....Clinton admitting he assaulted Paula Jones...LBJ screwing everything that moved as did JFK...

I like the Paula Jones story.....Clinton's lawyers thought she was a thick...dumb**s bar maid they could bully then realised the "bottomless dollar pit" Christian Right were funding her suit and they settled straightaway...

This won't hurt Trump too much...It's a historical suit he can play off with the Hooker money suit as a Witch hunt.

Yes but the fact likes of Clinton were also gulity of sexual predatory behaviour is hardly a mitigating reason for Trump to do similar.

You know, bit like the other thread. The excuse for going on a gun rampage is someone else did it first.

Doesn't quite work somehow.

mountain man wrote:Yes but the fact likes of Clinton were also gulity of sexual predatory behaviour is hardly a mitigating reason for Trump to do similar.

It is if you believe it......A lot of years since it happened and New Yorkers as well as other Liberals are desperate to stop Trump running..

My guess is if Anti semitism hadn't of stopped Corbyn some assault charge would have sprung from left field....

I don't take things at face value.......Half of the black families in right wing Texas with loved ones serving time probably agree with me.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:One of the most Liberal States in America finding Trump guilty...Shock of shocks....

Still sex scandals are nothing knew....Gerald Ford banging German spies....Clinton admitting he assaulted Paula Jones...LBJ screwing everything that moved as did JFK...

I like the Paula Jones story.....Clinton's lawyers thought she was a thick...dumb**s bar maid they could bully then realised the "bottomless dollar pit" Christian Right were funding her suit and they settled straightaway...

This won't hurt Trump too much...It's a historical suit he can play off with the Hooker money suit as a Witch hunt.

Let's see how he does w/ the Georgia election interference issue...

The sad thing w/ all this is that the Republican Party surely know what he is, and how unfit for office he is, but they've sold their souls and think the ends (an on-the-face-of-it Republican President) are justified by any sort of behaviour.

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:One of the most Liberal States in America finding Trump guilty...Shock of shocks....

Still sex scandals are nothing knew....Gerald Ford banging German spies....Clinton admitting he assaulted Paula Jones...LBJ screwing everything that moved as did JFK...

I like the Paula Jones story.....Clinton's lawyers thought she was a thick...dumb**s bar maid they could bully then realised the "bottomless dollar pit" Christian Right were funding her suit and they settled straightaway...

This won't hurt Trump too much...It's a historical suit he can play off with the Hooker money suit as a Witch hunt.

Let's see how he does w/ the Georgia election interference issue...

The sad thing w/ all this is that the Republican Party surely know what he is, and how unfit for office he is, but they've sold their souls and think the ends (an on-the-face-of-it Republican President) are justified by any sort of behaviour.

The GOP hate Trump always have...GOP has a loathing for anyone from New York including Conservatives..They have a pathological hatred of something called "New York values"....Basically Anti gun...Abortion loving...Pro gay rights Morons....in their eyes.

It is BS of course.....But Republicans think the heart of America is found in small apple pie backwater towns...

However Trump has his own base..."White....Working class...not greatly Educated.....Small Govt...Anti Establishment types" and there are plenty of marginal seats they can wreck.

An Unholy marriage...

What a stupid move by CNN having Trump on in front of fervent GOPers the day after he loses the sex case....Gives Trump the perfect platform to re-establish himself....

Florida is delegate rich.....Florida poll..

Best person to improve the Economy...

Trump.... 46%
Desantis 18%

Make no mistake it's the Economy where the battle will be...

Post Sex abuse poll....

GOP Yougov....

Trump 52 +4
Desantis 25 -5

Seeing here is Republicans coming together on a perceived witch hunt and the fallout from the Trump-hating CNN town hall...CNN thought it was a good idea to try to ruin him by giving him an hour in front of his fans while sending an intern to try to "Gotcha" him....

CNN never learn...Silly billy stuff.