The Trump Presidency

by Duty281 Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:17 am

First topic message reminder :

Well we'll wait and see about Arizona. Pundits seem to think it's a done deal; they don't seem to have considered it's only Election Day votes left to count.

Ohio called, but Texas and Florida not, which is very poor. Iowa should be called soon for Trump. Trump with healthy leads in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania...he needs 'em if Arizona's going blue.

Georgia seems to be faltering for Trump, but he's still ahead for now. North Carolina's probably in recount territory. unless Trump has more votes to secure it.

This mainstream media bias is quite something. Trump 49-48 ahead in Montana, 50% voted...oh yeah, that's too close to call. Trump 50-48 ahead in Virginia, 76% voted....oh yeah, we're calling that for Biden.

by Duty281 Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:15 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:So they chucked Anti semitism at him after (No AS before 2017 was there)

Of course there was.

Spoiler:

by **navyblueshorts** Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:59 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The current Trump charges are misdemeanor offences that have been upgraded to felony so an ambitious attorney can try to get on in his Career....Silly billy stuff because even Liberal commentators expect Trump to win.....So if he does get charged with other stuff after, people will think its a witchhunt......so it is counterproductive...

Nonsense. If it fits the bill for a felony (and who are you to say it doesn't?), so be it. Also, why shouldn't an attorney want to do something that might get him a promotion? Isn't this sort of thing how America works?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:As for top secret documents....Well breaking the law on those didn't do Hillary Clinton any harm did it ????.....

Rubbish. Chalk and cheese. It's not even that Trump had them necessarily; it's his d!ckhead response to legitimate requests for them to be returned as required and to investigations as to whom had access etc.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:But he was part of a witch hunt and there is no counter argument against that....Just like the Establishment is going after Trump.

Parroting that it's the 'Establishment' going after someone as if that's some sort of defence is daft and, I'm afraid, doesn't alter the fact that there are cases to be answered.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:11 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The current Trump charges are misdemeanor offences that have been upgraded to felony so an ambitious attorney can try to get on in his Career....Silly billy stuff because even Liberal commentators expect Trump to win.....So if he does get charged with other stuff after, people will think its a witchhunt......so it is counterproductive...
Nonsense. If it fits the bill for a felony (and who are you to say it doesn't?), so be it. Also, why shouldn't an attorney want to do something that might get him a promotion? Isn't this sort of thing how America works?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:As for top secret documents....Well breaking the law on those didn't do Hillary Clinton any harm did it ????.....
Rubbish. Chalk and cheese. It's not even that Trump had them necessarily; it's his d!ckhead response to legitimate requests for them to be returned as required and to investigations as to whom had access etc.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:But he was part of a witch hunt and there is no counter argument against that....Just like the Establishment is going after Trump.
Parroting that it's the 'Establishment' going after someone as if that's some sort of defence is daft and, I'm afraid, doesn't alter the fact that there are cases to be answered.

1. Falsifying business records is a misdemeanor offence.....Been added to with some conjecture to make it a felony.....It's BS and it won't stick....Don't take my word for it listen to Liberal commentators who hate Trump...

2. Clinton stuff is......Not chalk and cheese unless you have an agenda....Hillary broke the law simple as when it came to Government files...Trump should get the same treatment which is Zilcho......

3. Establishment did go after Corbyn...Of course the Status Quo wants to stay the Status Quo...Corbyn offered change like Bernie who was also a Communist and Antisemite apparently (news to him)......I never said Corbyn wins an Election but they sure as hell weren't going to give him another chance after 2017....I prefer more Centrist ideas anyway.

You don't like Trump I get that....But anyways......

Not a great rebuttal Navy.....I expect better from you.. Wink

by **navyblueshorts** Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:18 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The current Trump charges are misdemeanor offences that have been upgraded to felony so an ambitious attorney can try to get on in his Career....Silly billy stuff because even Liberal commentators expect Trump to win.....So if he does get charged with other stuff after, people will think its a witchhunt......so it is counterproductive...
Nonsense. If it fits the bill for a felony (and who are you to say it doesn't?), so be it. Also, why shouldn't an attorney want to do something that might get him a promotion? Isn't this sort of thing how America works?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:As for top secret documents....Well breaking the law on those didn't do Hillary Clinton any harm did it ????.....
Rubbish. Chalk and cheese. It's not even that Trump had them necessarily; it's his d!ckhead response to legitimate requests for them to be returned as required and to investigations as to whom had access etc.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:But he was part of a witch hunt and there is no counter argument against that....Just like the Establishment is going after Trump.
Parroting that it's the 'Establishment' going after someone as if that's some sort of defence is daft and, I'm afraid, doesn't alter the fact that there are cases to be answered.

1. Falsifying business records is a misdemeanor offence.....Been added to with some conjecture to make it a felony.....It's BS and it won't stick....Don't take my word for it listen to Liberal commentators who hate Trump...

2. Clinton stuff is......Not chalk and cheese unless you have an agenda....Hillary broke the law simple as when it came to Government files...Trump should get the same treatment which is Zilcho......

3. Establishment did go after Corbyn...Of course the Status Quo wants to stay the Status Quo...Corbyn offered change like Bernie who was also a Communist and Antisemite apparently (news to him)......I never said Corbyn wins an Election but they sure as hell weren't going to give him another chance after 2017....I prefer more Centrist ideas anyway.

You don't like Trump I get that....But anyways......

Not a great rebuttal Navy.....I expect better from you..

We'll see. Only our opinions, of course.

You must have the hots for Corbyn; I never mentioned him in previous post...

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:45 pm

Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture... thumbsup

by No name Bertie Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:34 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President.....

It is my understanding that Trump was a businessman and "television celebrity" with zero political experience, while Corbyn was a politician on the fringe of the Labour Party. Trump won the primary and the secondary to get elected into political office. Corbyn was elected by the Labour Membership to Leader of the Labour Party - a fringe politician suddenly having to lead a political party.

With regard "Commentators say Elections aren't rigged", I think it varies. For example in the past when there were democratic elections in Ukraine, Georgia, Serbia, Belarussia, many commentators agreed with those saying these elections were rigged and supported US and its allies direct involvement in "regime change operations" to overthrow those governments. When Trump won in 2016 many people agreed that the election was rigged by Putin.

by lostinwales Tue Apr 18, 2023 3:20 pm

No name Bertie wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President.....
It is my understanding that Trump was a businessman and "television celebrity" with zero political experience, while Corbyn was a politician on the fringe of the Labour Party. Trump won the primary and the secondary to get elected into political office. Corbyn was elected by the Labour Membership to Leader of the Labour Party - a fringe politician suddenly having to lead a political party.

With regard "Commentators say Elections aren't rigged", I think it varies. For example in the past when there were democratic elections in Ukraine, Georgia, Serbia, Belarussia, many commentators agreed with those saying these elections were rigged and supported US and its allies direct involvement in "regime change operations" to overthrow those governments. When Trump won in 2016 many people agreed that the election was rigged by Putin.

Bizarre

When did US and its allies get involved in regime change operations in those countries? (When didn't Russia?) If you take the last elections in, say, Belarus, then it seems to be fairly clear that Lukashenko didn't win but grabbed power anyway.

by No name Bertie Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:35 pm

lostinwales wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:... With regard "Commentators say Elections aren't rigged", I think it varies. For example in the past when there were democratic elections in Ukraine, Georgia, Serbia, Belarussia, many commentators agreed with those saying these elections were rigged and supported US and its allies direct involvement in "regime change operations" to overthrow those governments. When Trump won in 2016 many people agreed that the election was rigged by Putin.

Bizarre

When did US and its allies get involved in regime change operations in those countries? (When didn't Russia?) If you take the last elections in, say, Belarus, then it seems to be fairly clear that Lukashenko didn't win but grabbed power anyway.

No name Bertie wrote:The following is an interesting article published in 2004 in the Guardian with title US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev. It details how the United States created grass roots organisations to give rise to popular uprisings in countries such as Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia and Serbia as part of a foreign policy of promoting regime change. It justified this US interference by asserting the elections of these nations were rigged as claimed by US Intelligence and so their governments were illegitimate and had to be overthrown:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa

by Soul Requiem Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:04 am

No name Bertie wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:... With regard "Commentators say Elections aren't rigged", I think it varies. For example in the past when there were democratic elections in Ukraine, Georgia, Serbia, Belarussia, many commentators agreed with those saying these elections were rigged and supported US and its allies direct involvement in "regime change operations" to overthrow those governments. When Trump won in 2016 many people agreed that the election was rigged by Putin.

Bizarre

When did US and its allies get involved in regime change operations in those countries? (When didn't Russia?) If you take the last elections in, say, Belarus, then it seems to be fairly clear that Lukashenko didn't win but grabbed power anyway.

No name Bertie wrote:The following is an interesting article published in 2004 in the Guardian with title US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev. It details how the United States created grass roots organisations to give rise to popular uprisings in countries such as Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia and Serbia as part of a foreign policy of promoting regime change. It justified this US interference by asserting the elections of these nations were rigged as claimed by US Intelligence and so their governments were illegitimate and had to be overthrown:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa

There's a significant difference between rigging an election and influencing an election. The most recent election in Belarus was rigged, the 2016 US election was influenced by Putin.

by the-goon2 Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:36 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

by **JuliusHMarx** Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:45 pm

Interesting though that in the UK, older people can use many more existing IDs e.g. bus passes, than younger people, who can't use e.g. student ID cards.
I wonder which party that will help, at least in the short term?

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:46 pm

the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

A lot of poor folks haven't got Voter ID like passports....that's the whole point..

by the-goon2 Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:24 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

A lot of poor folks haven't got Voter ID like passports....that's the whole point..

You need ID to get government benefits and have any kind of job. That's a BS argument and you know it.

by **JuliusHMarx** Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:27 pm

the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

A lot of poor folks haven't got Voter ID like passports....that's the whole point..

You need ID to get government benefits and have any kind of job. That's a BS argument and you know it.

In the UK, no photo ID is needed to get benefits or a job.

by Duty281 Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:44 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

A lot of poor folks haven't got Voter ID like passports....that's the whole point..

That's why free photo ID is made available by the government for the purpose of elections.

by Duty281 Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:45 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

A lot of poor folks haven't got Voter ID like passports....that's the whole point..

You need ID to get government benefits and have any kind of job. That's a BS argument and you know it.

In the UK, no photo ID is needed to get benefits or a job.

Is near-impossible these days to even get so much as a job interview without providing photo ID...unless you work cash-in-hand or something.

by **JuliusHMarx** Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:46 pm

Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

A lot of poor folks haven't got Voter ID like passports....that's the whole point..

You need ID to get government benefits and have any kind of job. That's a BS argument and you know it.

In the UK, no photo ID is needed to get benefits or a job.

Is near-impossible these days to even get so much as a job interview without providing photo ID...unless you work cash-in-hand or something.

Sorry, I meant the kind of photo ID that is valid when going to vote.

by **JuliusHMarx** Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:49 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

A lot of poor folks haven't got Voter ID like passports....that's the whole point..

That's why free photo ID is made available by the government for the purpose of elections.

Yes, but they are requiring younger voters i.e. those more likely to vote Labour, to make more of an effort. Ipso facto, they are making it easier for those who are more likely to vote Tory.

by Duty281 Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:52 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

A lot of poor folks haven't got Voter ID like passports....that's the whole point..

You need ID to get government benefits and have any kind of job. That's a BS argument and you know it.

In the UK, no photo ID is needed to get benefits or a job.

Is near-impossible these days to even get so much as a job interview without providing photo ID...unless you work cash-in-hand or something.

Sorry, I meant the kind of photo ID that is valid when going to vote.

It's all the same, isn't it?

by Duty281 Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:55 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

A lot of poor folks haven't got Voter ID like passports....that's the whole point..

That's why free photo ID is made available by the government for the purpose of elections.

Yes, but they are requiring younger voters i.e. those more likely to vote Labour, to make more of an effort. Ipso facto, they are making it easier for those who are more likely to vote Tory.

But I'd reckon younger voters are more likely to have photo ID than older voters. Could be wrong, but I thought that's why the government have allowed older people to use bus passes and similar as valid forms of ID,

by **JuliusHMarx** Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:59 pm

Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

A lot of poor folks haven't got Voter ID like passports....that's the whole point..

That's why free photo ID is made available by the government for the purpose of elections.

Yes, but they are requiring younger voters i.e. those more likely to vote Labour, to make more of an effort. Ipso facto, they are making it easier for those who are more likely to vote Tory.

But I'd reckon younger voters are more likely to have photo ID than older voters. Could be wrong, but I thought that's why the government have allowed older people to use bus passes and similar as valid forms of ID,

What photo ID would you expect younger voters to have that older voters don't?

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:06 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

A lot of poor folks haven't got Voter ID like passports....that's the whole point..

That's why free photo ID is made available by the government for the purpose of elections.

Well that would be news to many because they haven't exactly advertised the fact..Wonder why ??

Come on let's not smokescreen....We know why Photo ID has been brought in.....Don't we ??..

After all only 30 odd cases of individual voter fraud were reported at the 2019 GE and only a handful were upheld..

by Duty281 Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:08 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

A lot of poor folks haven't got Voter ID like passports....that's the whole point..

That's why free photo ID is made available by the government for the purpose of elections.

Yes, but they are requiring younger voters i.e. those more likely to vote Labour, to make more of an effort. Ipso facto, they are making it easier for those who are more likely to vote Tory.

But I'd reckon younger voters are more likely to have photo ID than older voters. Could be wrong, but I thought that's why the government have allowed older people to use bus passes and similar as valid forms of ID,

What photo ID would you expect younger voters to have that older voters don't?

Younger voters are more likely to have passports (because they travel more) and more likely to have photographic driving licenses, because some older people might still have the old-style paper ones.

But who knows?

by Duty281 Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:10 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

A lot of poor folks haven't got Voter ID like passports....that's the whole point..

That's why free photo ID is made available by the government for the purpose of elections.

Well that would be news to many because they haven't exactly advertised the fact..Wonder why ??

Come on let's not smokescreen....We know why Photo ID has been brought in.....Don't we ??..

After all only 30 odd cases of individual voter fraud were reported at the 2019 GE and only a handful were upheld..

They have advertised the fact.

I'd hope photo ID has been brought in to bring us in line with NI and most of Europe - to make elections more secure. It shouldn't be an issue.

The true numbers of voter fraud are not known.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:23 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and Trump are both outsiders in the Political sense.....Corbyn was naive and Trump is Trump...

Always find it amusing when Commentators say Elections aren't rigged and Trump is full of BS......In Missouri the joke was always that as many dead people vote as live ones......

Southern States especially are renowned for the "Zombie" vote.......Without the Mafia JFK never becomes President..

As for the GOP the whole point of Voter ID is suppression.....I see the Tories have brought it in here...

I won't be voting in May and neither will Red ....But if you are...make sure you take something with a picture...

God forbid you are checked to confirm you are who you say you are when it comes to voting. Being against voter ID and simultaneously wanting to "defend our democracy" is a difficult square to circle.

A lot of poor folks haven't got Voter ID like passports....that's the whole point..

That's why free photo ID is made available by the government for the purpose of elections.

Well that would be news to many because they haven't exactly advertised the fact..Wonder why ??

Come on let's not smokescreen....We know why Photo ID has been brought in.....Don't we ??..

After all only 30 odd cases of individual voter fraud were reported at the 2019 GE and only a handful were upheld..

They have advertised the fact.

I'd hope photo ID has been brought in to bring us in line with NI and most of Europe - to make elections more secure. It shouldn't be an issue.

The true numbers of voter fraud are not known.

Well you can only go off registered complaints.......The advertising has been the bare minimum.....

Duty you are a bright lad...You know why Voter ID has been brought in.......A bit like Boundary changes are brought in to make Constituencies fairer.. laughing

by the-goon2 Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:09 am

Voter ID makes it harder to perform voter fraud, and it's something that is opposed only by the left. Makes you think eh?

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:04 am

the-goon2 wrote:Voter ID makes it harder to perform voter fraud, and it's something that is opposed only by the left. Makes you think eh?

Voter ID makes it harder for legitimate voters to vote, which will mostly affect voters on the left. Hence it is seen as a good thing by the right. Makes you think eh?

by the-goon2 Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:50 am

I hear it's harder open a bank account without ID, guess the banks are racist too.

There are very few things other than crime that you can do now without ID.

So a very small minority of ppl without ID, need to get ID before they do. If they actually care about voting, I think they can manage it. There are Help to Vote organisations which I'm sure can help these ppl too. It really isn't hard, and it's such a non argument.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:59 am

Interesting guy on Sky News yesterday (not a politician) from maybe the Electoral Commission (?) pointed out that surveys have shown a significant number of voters don't trust the results of elections w/o voter ID, notwithstanding whether significant fraud occurs or not. That mistrust corrodes elections.

I have no issue w/ ID requirements going forward as long as it's easy to acquire something suitable. Tough if people imply don't. Much the same as complaining about an election result now, but not having bothered to vote in it.

by GSC Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:45 am

It is rather transparently electioneering to me, especially when you see the accepted forms of ID are far more likely likely to be held by people whose age skews heavily towards the conservative party. Also don't think there's been much effort to target people around my age or younger to be made aware they need ID or a certificate to vote. Anecdotal though.

To the last point I don't think voter fraud has ever been a hot button issue in my lifetime. Not to the degree that it would come close to skewing an election. Never was even really mentioned before a certain Donald Trump needed an excuse for losing

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Apr 20, 2023 12:09 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Interesting guy on Sky News yesterday (not a politician) from maybe the Electoral Commission (?) pointed out that surveys have shown a significant number of voters don't trust the results of elections w/o voter ID, notwithstanding whether significant fraud occurs or not. That mistrust corrodes elections.

I have no issue w/ ID requirements going forward as long as it's easy to acquire something suitable. Tough if people imply don't. Much the same as complaining about an election result now, but not having bothered to vote in it.

A fair chunk of People are struggling to pay bills and feed the kids....Foodbanks are running out of food last time I watched the news....

So with the mismanagement of the economy and the rise of inflation....Because the struggling can't afford to renew or get a passport in the current climate.....The Govt stay in power ??....Don't give me this "you can apply for a voter ID C**P".....The Govt know people have other more pressing things to be thinking about..

It has been brought in for Voter suppression anyone with a brain knows it...and if you are happy with that well.....Feel proud of yourself. thumbsup

by Duty281 Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:03 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Interesting guy on Sky News yesterday (not a politician) from maybe the Electoral Commission (?) pointed out that surveys have shown a significant number of voters don't trust the results of elections w/o voter ID, notwithstanding whether significant fraud occurs or not. That mistrust corrodes elections.

I have no issue w/ ID requirements going forward as long as it's easy to acquire something suitable. Tough if people imply don't. Much the same as complaining about an election result now, but not having bothered to vote in it.

A fair chunk of People are struggling to pay bills and feed the kids....Foodbanks are running out of food last time I watched the news....

So with the mismanagement of the economy and the rise of inflation....Because the struggling can't afford to renew or get a passport in the current climate.....The Govt stay in power ??....Don't give me this "you can apply for a voter ID C**P".....The Govt know people have other more pressing things to be thinking about..

It has been brought in for Voter suppression anyone with a brain knows it...and if you are happy with that well.....Feel proud of yourself.

Which is why there's a free alternative...

There's also the PASS card, which costs £15, much cheaper than a passport.

Insulting people doesn't advance your point, by the way.

by Duty281 Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:05 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:Voter ID makes it harder to perform voter fraud, and it's something that is opposed only by the left. Makes you think eh?

Voter ID makes it harder for legitimate voters to vote, which will mostly affect voters on the left. Hence it is seen as a good thing by the right. Makes you think eh?

OK, but what is the actual evidence for this? Where's the data that shows an ID requirement will impact voters on the left more?

by the-goon2 Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:06 pm

If you have more important things than voting, and getting the required docs to vote, well then you get the election outcome you deserve.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:15 pm

the-goon2 wrote:If you have more important things than voting, and getting the required docs to vote, well then you get the election outcome you deserve.

You don't think feeding your kids is more important than voting and that working two jobs is more important than spending time getting the required documents to vote?

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:17 pm

Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:Voter ID makes it harder to perform voter fraud, and it's something that is opposed only by the left. Makes you think eh?

Voter ID makes it harder for legitimate voters to vote, which will mostly affect voters on the left. Hence it is seen as a good thing by the right. Makes you think eh?

OK, but what is the actual evidence for this? Where's the data that shows an ID requirement will impact voters on the left more?

Depends if you accept that people on low income are more likely to vote Labour.

by GSC Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:27 pm

the-goon2 wrote:If you have more important things than voting, and getting the required docs to vote, well then you get the election outcome you deserve.

So basically it is voter suppression then?

by Duty281 Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:35 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:Voter ID makes it harder to perform voter fraud, and it's something that is opposed only by the left. Makes you think eh?

Voter ID makes it harder for legitimate voters to vote, which will mostly affect voters on the left. Hence it is seen as a good thing by the right. Makes you think eh?

OK, but what is the actual evidence for this? Where's the data that shows an ID requirement will impact voters on the left more?

Depends if you accept that people on low income are more likely to vote Labour.

That's starting off with a presumption that low income people are less likely to have the requisite ID.

According to the Electoral Commission, 92.5% of the population already have acceptable photo ID (this was as of 2015).

Whites are less likely than non-whites to have a passport (apparently 19% of white people didn't have a passport in 2011, compared with 7% of other groups). Non-whites are more likely to vote Labour. However, those without a driving license are more likely to vote Labour (this might be linked to people in London less likely to hold a driving license; London being a Labour stronghold).

And as I mentioned yesterday: "Research commissioned by the government shows that under-29s are actually the age group most likely to own something suitable, and ethnic minorities are marginally more likely to do so than white Britons." And, of course, the younger age groups are more likely to vote Labour.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:43 pm

Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:Voter ID makes it harder to perform voter fraud, and it's something that is opposed only by the left. Makes you think eh?

Voter ID makes it harder for legitimate voters to vote, which will mostly affect voters on the left. Hence it is seen as a good thing by the right. Makes you think eh?

OK, but what is the actual evidence for this? Where's the data that shows an ID requirement will impact voters on the left more?

Depends if you accept that people on low income are more likely to vote Labour.

That's starting off with a presumption that low income people are less likely to have the requisite ID.

According to the Electoral Commission, 92.5% of the population already have acceptable photo ID (this was as of 2015).

Whites are less likely than non-whites to have a passport (apparently 19% of white people didn't have a passport in 2011, compared with 7% of other groups). Non-whites are more likely to vote Labour. However, those without a driving license are more likely to vote Labour (this might be linked to people in London less likely to hold a driving license; London being a Labour stronghold).

And as I mentioned yesterday: "Research commissioned by the government shows that under-29s are actually the age group most likely to own something suitable, and ethnic minorities are marginally more likely to do so than white Britons." And, of course, the younger age groups are more likely to vote Labour.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/blog/government-must-not-disenfranchise-low-income-voters-polls
Our research shows that low-income potential voters are much more likely not to have photo ID compared to richer potential voters (1% compared to 6%). Combining those without photo ID with those who do have photo ID but say they would not be recognisable from the photo, around 1.7 million low-income adults would be prevented from voting under the new legislation.

Does that seem fair to you?

The research also finds that only around half of those without photo ID, or recognisable photo ID, would apply for a free Voter ID card. 51% of low-income adults without photo ID, or recognisable photo ID, said that they would be likely to apply for an ID card to vote, and 41% said they were unlikely to, or unsure if they would. Overall, this risks around 700,000 low-income potential voters not voting due to ID requirements.

Does that seem good for our democracy to you?

by **navyblueshorts** Thu Apr 20, 2023 5:21 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Interesting guy on Sky News yesterday (not a politician) from maybe the Electoral Commission (?) pointed out that surveys have shown a significant number of voters don't trust the results of elections w/o voter ID, notwithstanding whether significant fraud occurs or not. That mistrust corrodes elections.

I have no issue w/ ID requirements going forward as long as it's easy to acquire something suitable. Tough if people imply don't. Much the same as complaining about an election result now, but not having bothered to vote in it.

A fair chunk of People are struggling to pay bills and feed the kids....Foodbanks are running out of food last time I watched the news....

So with the mismanagement of the economy and the rise of inflation....Because the struggling can't afford to renew or get a passport in the current climate.....The Govt stay in power ??....Don't give me this "you can apply for a voter ID C**P".....The Govt know people have other more pressing things to be thinking about..

It has been brought in for Voter suppression anyone with a brain knows it...and if you are happy with that well.....Feel proud of yourself.

Yep. I'm perfectly happy with myself thanks. Your assumptions as to reasons don't make them fact. Calm down.

by Duty281 Thu Apr 20, 2023 5:35 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:Voter ID makes it harder to perform voter fraud, and it's something that is opposed only by the left. Makes you think eh?

Voter ID makes it harder for legitimate voters to vote, which will mostly affect voters on the left. Hence it is seen as a good thing by the right. Makes you think eh?

OK, but what is the actual evidence for this? Where's the data that shows an ID requirement will impact voters on the left more?

Depends if you accept that people on low income are more likely to vote Labour.

That's starting off with a presumption that low income people are less likely to have the requisite ID.

According to the Electoral Commission, 92.5% of the population already have acceptable photo ID (this was as of 2015).

Whites are less likely than non-whites to have a passport (apparently 19% of white people didn't have a passport in 2011, compared with 7% of other groups). Non-whites are more likely to vote Labour. However, those without a driving license are more likely to vote Labour (this might be linked to people in London less likely to hold a driving license; London being a Labour stronghold).

And as I mentioned yesterday: "Research commissioned by the government shows that under-29s are actually the age group most likely to own something suitable, and ethnic minorities are marginally more likely to do so than white Britons." And, of course, the younger age groups are more likely to vote Labour.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/blog/government-must-not-disenfranchise-low-income-voters-polls
Our research shows that low-income potential voters are much more likely not to have photo ID compared to richer potential voters (1% compared to 6%). Combining those without photo ID with those who do have photo ID but say they would not be recognisable from the photo, around 1.7 million low-income adults would be prevented from voting under the new legislation.

Does that seem fair to you?

The research also finds that only around half of those without photo ID, or recognisable photo ID, would apply for a free Voter ID card. 51% of low-income adults without photo ID, or recognisable photo ID, said that they would be likely to apply for an ID card to vote, and 41% said they were unlikely to, or unsure if they would. Overall, this risks around 700,000 low-income potential voters not voting due to ID requirements.

Does that seem good for our democracy to you?

Thank you for that. So, overall, 92% already have the necessary documentation to vote. The ones that don't are a mixture of demographics - higher income voters are more likely to have the correct form of ID, and these people are more likely to vote Tory than Labour; but non-white people and those under 30 are more likely to possess the correct form of ID, compared to the opposite groups, and these people are more likely to vote Labour than Tory. Therefore I don't see that this mainly (adversely) affects voters on the left.

I disagree with the emotive language used, however. 1.7 million would not be 'prevented' from voting - it's up to them to sort out the documentation they need, with cost not being a barrier, in the same way that everyone needs to register to vote.

Is photo ID fair and good for our democracy? Absolutely.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu Apr 20, 2023 5:53 pm

It's not fair if it makes it more effort to vote for members of one party than another.
And it's not good for democracy to make it more effort for a significant amount of people to vote, regardless of their affiliation, given that "In 2019 there were 33 allegations of 'impersonation' at polling stations and only one conviction out of over 58 million votes cast."

What's wrong with the barcode idea mentioned here -
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-voter-id-laws-attempt-rig-elections-not-improve-them-2020327
"When pilot schemes were run in different councils to test out various options for reform, among the most successful for voter turnout were those that didn’t use photo ID and instead put a barcode on polling cards and required voters to turn up with them."

by No name Bertie Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:04 pm

I remember when Donald Trump first announced his candidacy for the American Presidency. I had hardly heard of him and I wasn't the one to pay much attention to American elections and American politics.

But then I noticed the hysterical reporting from what I had thought were relatively impartial news outlets. It never went away. Social Media was worse and people took the subject as an opportunity to reveal their hate against people having slightly differing opinion.

Even when Trump lost the 2020 election, Trump remains a favorite topic in the mainstream media and social media arenas. Now it has ramped up again.

A lot of reporting in the mainstream media is of a very very low quality - focusing on imagined personalities - and often reads like cheap "chick lit".

by Duty281 Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:45 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:It's not fair if it makes it more effort to vote for members of one party than another.
And it's not good for democracy to make it more effort for a significant amount of people to vote, regardless of their affiliation, given that "In 2019 there were 33 allegations of 'impersonation' at polling stations and only one conviction out of over 58 million votes cast."

What's wrong with the barcode idea mentioned here -
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-voter-id-laws-attempt-rig-elections-not-improve-them-2020327
"When pilot schemes were run in different councils to test out various options for reform, among the most successful for voter turnout were those that didn’t use photo ID and instead put a barcode on polling cards and required voters to turn up with them."

But, as established, there is no evidence that it now requires more effort for members of one party to vote than another party.

We do not know the true count of fraud in elections. If someone who does not go to vote is impersonated then they do not know they have been impersonated, and therefore no crime will be recorded. Hence the true figures are unknown. The Electoral Commission believe voter ID should come in to increase trust in the electoral system, prevent fraud, and bring GB in line with NI and many other countries, where this is seen as the norm.

A barcode on a polling card doesn't go far enough, as it still wouldn't require a person to prove who they are. (And doubtless we'd have arguments about which party's voters are more likely to take a polling card with them!)

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:51 pm

Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:It's not fair if it makes it more effort to vote for members of one party than another.
And it's not good for democracy to make it more effort for a significant amount of people to vote, regardless of their affiliation, given that "In 2019 there were 33 allegations of 'impersonation' at polling stations and only one conviction out of over 58 million votes cast."

What's wrong with the barcode idea mentioned here -
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-voter-id-laws-attempt-rig-elections-not-improve-them-2020327
"When pilot schemes were run in different councils to test out various options for reform, among the most successful for voter turnout were those that didn’t use photo ID and instead put a barcode on polling cards and required voters to turn up with them."

But, as established, there is no evidence that it now requires more effort for members of one party to vote than another party.

I disagree - to me it seems like there is evidence when viewed overall.

Why are Oyster cards allowed as valid ID for older people, but not for younger people?

by the-goon2 Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:04 am

GSC wrote:
the-goon2 wrote:If you have more important things than voting, and getting the required docs to vote, well then you get the election outcome you deserve.

So basically it is voter suppression then?

No, it isn't. Stop being hysterical.

by Soul Requiem Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:11 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:It's not fair if it makes it more effort to vote for members of one party than another.
And it's not good for democracy to make it more effort for a significant amount of people to vote, regardless of their affiliation, given that "In 2019 there were 33 allegations of 'impersonation' at polling stations and only one conviction out of over 58 million votes cast."

What's wrong with the barcode idea mentioned here -
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-voter-id-laws-attempt-rig-elections-not-improve-them-2020327
"When pilot schemes were run in different councils to test out various options for reform, among the most successful for voter turnout were those that didn’t use photo ID and instead put a barcode on polling cards and required voters to turn up with them."

But, as established, there is no evidence that it now requires more effort for members of one party to vote than another party.

I disagree - to me it seems like there is evidence when viewed overall.

Why are Oyster cards allowed as valid ID for older people, but not for younger people?

I'm no expert but the photo aspect of a 60+ oyster card might be why.

by the-goon2 Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:27 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:It's not fair if it makes it more effort to vote for members of one party than another.
And it's not good for democracy to make it more effort for a significant amount of people to vote, regardless of their affiliation, given that "In 2019 there were 33 allegations of 'impersonation' at polling stations and only one conviction out of over 58 million votes cast."

What's wrong with the barcode idea mentioned here -
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-voter-id-laws-attempt-rig-elections-not-improve-them-2020327
"When pilot schemes were run in different councils to test out various options for reform, among the most successful for voter turnout were those that didn’t use photo ID and instead put a barcode on polling cards and required voters to turn up with them."

But, as established, there is no evidence that it now requires more effort for members of one party to vote than another party.

I disagree - to me it seems like there is evidence when viewed overall.

Why are Oyster cards allowed as valid ID for older people, but not for younger people?

Minor inconvenience for tiny minority of voters = voter suppression. Laugh

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:46 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:It's not fair if it makes it more effort to vote for members of one party than another.
And it's not good for democracy to make it more effort for a significant amount of people to vote, regardless of their affiliation, given that "In 2019 there were 33 allegations of 'impersonation' at polling stations and only one conviction out of over 58 million votes cast."

What's wrong with the barcode idea mentioned here -
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-voter-id-laws-attempt-rig-elections-not-improve-them-2020327
"When pilot schemes were run in different councils to test out various options for reform, among the most successful for voter turnout were those that didn’t use photo ID and instead put a barcode on polling cards and required voters to turn up with them."

But, as established, there is no evidence that it now requires more effort for members of one party to vote than another party.

I disagree - to me it seems like there is evidence when viewed overall.

Why are Oyster cards allowed as valid ID for older people, but not for younger people?

I'm no expert but the photo aspect of a 60+ oyster card might be why.

Fair enough - I've never seen an Oyster card, hence the question.

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:48 am

the-goon2 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:It's not fair if it makes it more effort to vote for members of one party than another.
And it's not good for democracy to make it more effort for a significant amount of people to vote, regardless of their affiliation, given that "In 2019 there were 33 allegations of 'impersonation' at polling stations and only one conviction out of over 58 million votes cast."

What's wrong with the barcode idea mentioned here -
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-voter-id-laws-attempt-rig-elections-not-improve-them-2020327
"When pilot schemes were run in different councils to test out various options for reform, among the most successful for voter turnout were those that didn’t use photo ID and instead put a barcode on polling cards and required voters to turn up with them."

But, as established, there is no evidence that it now requires more effort for members of one party to vote than another party.

I disagree - to me it seems like there is evidence when viewed overall.

Why are Oyster cards allowed as valid ID for older people, but not for younger people?

Minor inconvenience for tiny minority of voters = voter suppression.

Ah, so you don't mind voter suppression if it only affects small numbers. OK, I'll leave you to your love of democracy on your own terms.

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