Scotland 6N 2021 thread
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Scotland 6N 2021 thread
As requested by RDW in the Scotland 2020 thread, I have taken on the job of starting the 2021 6N thread as I want to contribute to the forum as much as I can .
First things first, here are the games and starting times for Scotland 6N 2021 matches :
Game 1: A daunting opener against reigning 6N and ANC champions, England (at a bogey round) on Feb 6th, KO: 1645hrs
Game 2: Our first home game of 6N 2021, against a team in transition or a rebuilding process, Wales on Feb 13th, KO: 1645hrs.
Game 3: Another daunting prospect, this time in the Stade De France, against the very entertaining French team, KO: 1500hrs on Feb 28th.
Game 4: Our second home match, this time against our bogey Celtic cousins Ireland on March 14th, KO: 1500hrs.
Game 5: We end our 2021 campaign at home against Italy, usually seen as a Wooden Spoon decider and one Italy always target as a winnable game, even though its been a few years since they have actually beaten us. This game is on March 20th with a KO time of 1415hrs.
I think most fans would be happy with 3 wins from 5 and Tbh, that is easily achievable if we play to our potential. I know that we have a poor record v Ireland but we know that records are breakable, we are at home so should be aiming for a win in that. I, as most Scotland fans no doubt, would LOVE a win at Twickenham to break the only never ending hoodoo left to beat but I think we all know how tough it will be. It may be good to get them first up but tbh, I don't see it make a difference unless England totally underestimate us or get massively hit by Covid etc.
I also think Gregor Townsend has to deliver positive results etc in order to win over the doubters (I am not one by the way, I am probably the only one on this forum that backs his new contract) once and for all, he will have a tough job picking his squad for the 6N, some players are and will, over the next few weeks, be putting up their hands regarding selection (Rory Hutchinson and Huw Jones fall into this category) and some will be hoping to retain their places on the back of good ANC performances (van der Walt and Duncy Weir for example).
So now comes the bit where you guys can contribute to the thread, who would you pick as the pool of players (is it 26 names?) for the 6N, have you got any left field choices that nobody would expect to see in it, Finlay Christie (as an example because I know a lot would love to see him in the Scotland blue) perhaps?
Hopefully this thread satisfies RDW .
Highland Shaun- Posts : 466
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Re: Scotland 6N 2021 thread
NeilyBroon wrote:RDW wrote:I wouldn't read too much into the social media pictures. They're delibertely chosen to get the most social media interaction, and if anything they'd deliberately post pictures of those who are not playing to keep the team selection (and potential tactics) under wraps...
Hmm let's think...
Based on sods law we'll go for a midfield axis of Lang-Harris, steele to start, Ryan Wilson a latecomer at 8, kinghorn and mcguigan on wings. Sounds disappointing enough!
I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if he ninjas Dobie into the 23. Especially if the U20s ends up being cancelled or if because Steele hasnt had much chance to train with them due to bubbling at quins.
I wouldn't count it out, Steele is solid but even at this stage I don't think many would say that he is better than Dobie - he has been so composed whenever I have seen him and looks like he can do it all.
EST- Posts : 1905
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Re: Scotland 6N 2021 thread
I expect Dobie will pass Steele in the near future if he keeps developing and finding playing time in a crowded Glasgow rotation. At this moment in time though, Steele is probably the better player having dedicated himself to his craft.
Now if SHC was in the mix...
Hazel Sapling- Posts : 2680
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Re: Scotland 6N 2021 thread
Hazel Sapling wrote:Steele has been good for Quins and been competing for a starting berth against England's second SH if he hadn't fallen out with Jones. Dobie had a muted Autumn with a couple of niggles.
I expect Dobie will pass Steele in the near future if he keeps developing and finding playing time in a crowded Glasgow rotation. At this moment in time though, Steele is probably the better player having dedicated himself to his craft.
Now if SHC was in the mix...
Alas, you raise a very good point. SHC is much like Scott. Should have had more caps for the national side and was let down by Edinburgh.
NeilyBroon- Moderator
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Re: Scotland 6N 2021 thread
Gordie Reid's version of events from THAT game at Twickers a few years ago.
The interesting bit is what he said happened between Russell and Townsend - the way he says it, Toonie was the one getting angry and escalated it into a full blown argument. It does sound like they calmed down a bit after though.
Would have been amazing to have seen that dressing room moment in a living with lions style documentary!
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Daily Mail hinting at Willis and Lawrence 6N debuts.
And George Ford wary of Finn after the Challenge Cup semi and a certain Mr Jones heroes were........ Scottish!
All I want is Redpath debut and an away win .
Highland Shaun- Posts : 466
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Re: Scotland 6N 2021 thread
RDW wrote:https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/51393335
Gordie Reid's version of events from THAT game at Twickers a few years ago.
The interesting bit is what he said happened between Russell and Townsend - the way he says it, Toonie was the one getting angry and escalated it into a full blown argument. It does sound like they calmed down a bit after though.
Would have been amazing to have seen that dressing room moment in a living with lions style documentary!
Definitely. It’s a shame that they didn’t do a Netflix style documentary for this six nations like they do for Formula One. Rugby is a very secretive sport, you never really know what is going on behind the scenes and always get very generic interviews from coaches. Less so these days but we’ve always had to dig deep to find the relevant information. If anything it helps false rumours spread by being less open.
bsando- Posts : 4643
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Redpath debut, Ritchie fit (hopefully fully), Maitland to back-up Hogg. Big Richie and Jones back on the bench and top notch back-up at prop.
Bring it on.
https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/scotland-announce-team-for-150-year-anniversary-of-rugbys-oldest-rivalry
15. Stuart Hogg CAPTAIN (Exeter Chiefs) – 80 caps
14. Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 50 caps
13. Chris Harris (Gloucester) – 23 caps
12. Cameron Redpath (Bath Rugby) – 0 caps
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Edinburgh) – 5 caps
10. Finn Russell (Racing 92) – 51 caps
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 37 caps
1. Rory Sutherland (Edinburgh) – 11 caps
2. George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 34 caps
4. Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps
5. Jonny Gray (Exeter Chiefs) – 61 caps
6. Jamie Ritchie VICE CAPTAIN (Edinburgh) – 23 caps
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh – 36 caps
8. Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Substitutes:
16. David Cherry (Edinburgh) – 0 caps
17. Oli Kebble (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
18. WP Nel (Edinburgh) – 40 caps
19. Richie Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 65 caps
20. Gary Graham (Newcastle Falcons) – 2 caps
21. Scott Steele (Harlequins) – 1 cap
22. Jaco van der Walt (Edinburgh) – 1 cap
23. Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 26 caps
nickj- Posts : 1063
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Re: Scotland 6N 2021 thread
I think England will aim to bludgeon Scotland into the ground and exploit territory.
I would hope Scotland look to target Farrell as much as possible. It's an odd decision to swap him back to fly half in my opinion. If they win no problem I guess. Lose though and suddenly everyones Lions team sheet will be very different. Eddie Jones was making some jabs at Scotland in the media today but I think all the pressure is on England to be honest. They're expected to win this game.
Looks a little damp on Saturday but no strong winds.
bsando- Posts : 4643
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Re: Scotland 6N 2021 thread
bsando wrote:RDW wrote:https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/51393335
Gordie Reid's version of events from THAT game at Twickers a few years ago.
The interesting bit is what he said happened between Russell and Townsend - the way he says it, Toonie was the one getting angry and escalated it into a full blown argument. It does sound like they calmed down a bit after though.
Would have been amazing to have seen that dressing room moment in a living with lions style documentary!
Definitely. It’s a shame that they didn’t do a Netflix style documentary for this six nations like they do for Formula One. Rugby is a very secretive sport, you never really know what is going on behind the scenes and always get very generic interviews from coaches. Less so these days but we’ve always had to dig deep to find the relevant information. If anything it helps false rumours spread by being less open.
It may sound an incredibly boring thing to say but I do think this argument may have been overblown given what happened both immediately and in the season afterward.
It doesn't seem too big a deal that a player and a coach had an argument that calmed down within a relatively short period in a highly charged match.
Also I fear that in today's climate, nothing good can really come of more in depth coverage of the inside. You'd start off with issues regarding what can and cannot be said on television with children watching and then discussions of whether robust conversations transgressed the line. You'd get the players who see it as their audition for some sort of reality TV/ acting career by making speeches for the camera. Ultimately we'd end up with a highly sanitised, rehearsed version of what actually goes on and the real stuff happening elsewhere unfortunately. I'd much rather see proper analysis by players recently retired of what tactics will be adopted and how teams would prefer. Not, with all due respect, 90s players discussing what rugby was like in their day or what is going on, when it is almost a different sport now. In effect less Andy Nicol, more John Barclay. Less Jeremy Guscott, more Chris Robshaw. Warburton has been a great addition to rugby punditry. His point on kicking fundamentally answered the question of why teams kick more at international level, slightly more adroitly than Jonathan Davies saying it's on when a team have an overlap behind their own line while leading by four points with two minutes to go.
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Re: Scotland 6N 2021 thread
Probably a decent hit out that both sides needed.
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BigGee wrote:From reading the Toonie interview after the squad announcement, it seems that Scotland had a practice game against Glasgow last friday, which might explain why DW was not making so much of the A team training game today.
Probably a decent hit out that both sides needed.
I hope Scotland won...!
Although we obviously would have been missing all the players who played with their clubs at the weekend. I'm still amazed Finn Russell was able to stay in camp. It maybe would have been too much in terms of Covid controls to go to France and back within a few days.
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NeilyBroon- Moderator
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I think I remember Gatland saying that you do need a little bit of luck to win a Grand Slam. Plenty of previous 6N Grand Slam Champions had a little luck or just scraped past in one particular game. Even if Scotland were to win tomorrow and beat Wales at home, they'd still have two huge test matches in France away and Ireland at home.
It would be the ultimate way for Scotland to begin a Six Nations championship. I just wonder, do Scotland have the ability to hit a run of form if they win tomorrow? Or will they inevitably hit a barrier and go down to one of Wales, France or Ireland or even Italy?
bsando- Posts : 4643
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Scotland's resources and playing numbers as a nation are a distant last out of the 6N teams. Our world ranking makes us odds on to finish 5th and maybe 4th pretty much every year. To do more than that would be hugely against the odds, especially in the modern game where professionalism doesn't leave much room for a run of freak results. One offs yes, but you need to string together 4 or 5 wins to win a championship.
Achieving 3 wins is usually against the odds most years for us.
You can always rely on me lifting the spirits!
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123456789.- Posts : 1091
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If you are expected to live on average to 88 barring accidents or early health complications, that leaves 60 Six Nations to go for me. I would expect that in 60 Six Nations that we are able to have a 20 year period where we are competing for the top prize.
Now whether you will live to see a third professional club side, that is a question
Hazel Sapling- Posts : 2680
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Re: Scotland 6N 2021 thread
Given that in nearly a quarter of a century of professional rugby only Argentina and Japan have really emerged to challenge the status quo. I think you'd struggle to say that Italy have improved relative to the traditional teams within the last 24 years. Georgia and Russia actually, simply, are not very good no matter how the media tries to spin it. The Pacific Islands have all of our problems with regard to size and lots more on top of them. The superpower idea does seem rather unlikely. In fact, for every Argentina and Japan there's a Canada or a Romania that have if anything gone backwards. Canada at a rate of knots.
Assuming that rugby does not become a multinational megasport as some people believe, one would assume that one year, things will fall our way. Injuries and bouncing balls will favour us and we'll have a team capable of taking advantage of it. If one thinks to say 2006, if we'd had a better team we would have won the slam. In 2010, we weren't far off with pretty awful players - just luck and injuries went against us.
The current bunch are pretty bloody good. Certainly strong enough to capitalise if circumstances favour us. If you think the standard life cycle of an international rugby team is four years, between 2015 and 2019 we beat every other Six Nations side. Three of the five were beaten in the first Six Nations of this cycle. Ireland look far from impregnable and England are England. In short, our current team is capable of beating every other Six Nations side on their day. It just needs to happen that the other factors fall our way at some stage too. Of course, the material inability to win at Twickenham or in Paris is something of a hindrance I must admit.
What's more, if the South Africans keep churning out decent rugby players without the money to keep them then the future is very bright indeed for the rugby team. Personally I can't wait for the Van Der Grand Slam.
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Re: Scotland 6N 2021 thread
bsando wrote:Does anyone actually think Scotland are mentally and physically capable of winning a Grand Slam?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh I needed that! Hang on, you weren't being serious were you?!
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Hazel Sapling wrote:How old are you RDW?
If you are expected to live on average to 88 barring accidents or early health complications, that leaves 60 Six Nations to go for me. I would expect that in 60 Six Nations that we are able to have a 20 year period where we are competing for the top prize.
Now whether you will live to see a third professional club side, that is a question
Ha! That's about as likely as Jimbo giving Edinburgh a compliment...
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What’s the tactics? How will the game unfold?
For me it all hinges on Finn again. If he has one of his master class days then we can win. If he’s having a flakey day then we’re onto a hiding.
We need to play smart rugby and look to pin England into the corners. If we run into them all day long we’ll just get squashed. If we try to run around them all day we’ll go side to side not getting anywhere.
We need to play with the top two inches. Not giving away the usual brainfart penalties. Not having brown will help with that.
So yeah. I don’t know if we’ll get gubbed or capture a famous win
We’re a total headcase of a rugby nation.
tigertattie- Posts : 9579
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Re: Scotland 6N 2021 thread
23-20 or something similar.
I'd imagine they'll have Finn and Redpath acting as dual playmakers, with Finn and Hogg doing the tactical kicking.
It all depends on our forwards getting parity as a minimum tomorrow. Backs do not win games, especially at the moment. It also depends whether price is on passing form, or firing it out above heads and taking a few steps in-between.
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Cherry has a big game ahead of him for his debut. I think he could do quite well, I like how he goes at Edinburgh.
If it’s a total disaster then we’ll probably be wracking our brains a bit afterwards. On paper we have a good side, even the most critical of pundits are coming out with quotes of praise for the Scottish team sheet. This is the first six nations I’ve seen Scotland predicted to finish 4th at worst. Disclaimer: That’s largely due Wales and their poor start under Pivac.
The bookies have England as strong favourites but Scotland have low odds for their remaining fixtures in the 6N. So there is actually some logic in being quietly confident this year, where as in previous campaigns it was more out of hope.
Crucial factors for me are will our star players show up and perform?
Sutherland, Fagerson, Gray, Ritchie, Watson, Russell, DVDM, Redpath, Hogg. If all these players have a strong game that will greatly increase our chances of winning away. On their day they’re all world class or close to it. I just want to see a really good team performance.
Discipline was very poor against Ireland so that too is something I’ll be hoping is much improved.
bsando- Posts : 4643
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It's finally here
As ever, the chat on here has been entertaining and informative. Great to see Fly Half Factory and Take The Long Road weigh in with their tuppence worth.
Like most Scottish posters I feel confident about today; mind you I felt confident as I took my seat at Twickers back in 2017! And 2015.
The thing which has been nagging away at the back of my mind is HOOKERS. Yes tigertattie that got your attention, didn't it?
I think Jamie George and Luke Cowan-Dickie are both reliable, solid, hard as nails hookers. You know what you're going to get from them all day long. Now, I like George Turner in the loose. He has an impressive turn of pace, he hits really, really hard in the tackle and he does a lot of work at the breakdown. His throwing tends to wobble under pressure though.
Then there's Dave Cherry. Is he just a squad player at the Luvvies? He's no spring chicken and he has not really been earning rave reviews anywhere.
If we're honest we're playing our third and, at best, fourth choice hookers. There will be a lot of kicking today and if Itoje, Hill and Curry can upset the Scottish line outs then we could be in trouble.
On the plus side; with Daddy's Boy at 10 England tend to play off 9 a lot, this should allow our back row to be all over the breakdown and hopefully win a few turnovers. Turner, a converted flanker, could excel here.
Set piece. Breakdown. If England gain the upper hand here then Dancer is on starvation rations. In which case we probably lose.
IF, big if, Turner consistently hits his jumpers and our back row stops them on the gainline and disrupts/slows down their ball....
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As always I just hope we're competitive for.the 80 and make a good game of it. Let's not forget it's very, very, very unlikely we're going to win. That doesn't mean we can't!
Hope you all enjoy the game (from behind your sofas)
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RDW wrote:Well I can't tell if I'm glad or a bit gutted that I'll be fast asleep when all this happens (nope I ain't getting up at 3am!). hug:
Mods! Mods! Someone call the Mods!!
Who let such a dilettante, uncommitted, fair weather supporter on these boards?
Infamy, I say, infamy.
Oh wait...he's a Luvvie? Ah, he's probably one of the Morningside Ultras then.
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1. Sarries players will be undercooked
2. Last time Farrell played he was gash
3. Russell is due a big game for Scotland
4. This may be the best Scotland team we've seen in years and years
5. There'll be no England fans passionately supporting their team through their prawn sandwiches
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They crochet their own weapons!
I’m still stuck with score predictions. England are a go through the motions team which would suit someone like SA or NZ to play. But Scotland are just mad and when we Play the pragmatic teams we self implode.
Also why are our hookers always converted backrower? Can’t we find any hookers that grew up hooking? Maybe that’s why our arrows from them are always dreadful???
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I think we're a lot more pragmatic than previous Toonie teams. I think the "Let them have the ball and they'll sabotage themselves " attitude is nowhere near as true as it once was: this team seem content enough, and competent enough, to keep the ball until an opportunity presents itself rather than going all harum scarum.
I just can't call this afternoon; I think we can win but it is England at Twickers so...
We're doomed.
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Over the moon
We need to keep our feet on the grind though. England were awful and their penalty count was horrendous
Coupled with insisting on picking Sarrie players was mind boggling
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tigertattie wrote:Soooooo delighted.
Over the moon
We need to keep our feet on the grind though. England were awful and their penalty count was horrendous
Coupled with insisting on picking Sarrie players was mind boggling
I think England were awful because we didn't let them play well. Their defence was still rock solid, as shown by the scoreline, but our players managed to get under their skin from the first half.
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EST- Posts : 1905
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I think he has earned another WC now and maybe just maybe, he has got the team playing to its potential at last.
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What a performance. Look at the stats if you haven'y already, they're the best I've ever seen for Scotland against any opposition.
Redpath is the real deal, he was incredible in that first half. Played a huge part in getting the ball wide for Turner then Duhan.
But I think that was the best game I've seen from Johnny Gray. Some of the tackles and carries he made and the grabs at lineout time were pure class.
In a Lions year, I can't believe it. Totally over the moon!
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As a wider point, Scotland are probably never going to win the world cup, in World Cups we play a max three games against Tier One opposition. The real test for us is the Six Nations. Since the World Cup we've beaten Wales away, England away, the best French team for a decade. Fair play Townsend, you're on the right track.
The only, only, only issue is that we were not clinical enough. We should have had another three tries. Although this is the reigning champions, world cup finalists, autumn nations cup winners and vanquishers of the All Blacks so a win's a win I suppose.
Just need to get Wee Nicky to sort her vaccination programme out and stop spouting rubbish so we can properly celebrate the Grand Slam.
Are you watching Warren Gatland?
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123456789. wrote:Gonna end my Toonie out campaign right here and right now.
As a wider point, Scotland are probably never going to win the world cup, in World Cups we play a max three games against Tier One opposition. The real test for us is the Six Nations. Since the World Cup we've beaten Wales away, England away, the best French team for a decade. Fair play Townsend, you're on the right track.
The only, only, only issue is that we were not clinical enough. We should have had another three tries. Although this is the reigning champions, world cup finalists, autumn nations cup winners and vanquishers of the All Blacks so a win's a win I suppose.
Just need to get Wee Nicky to sort her vaccination programme out and stop spouting rubbish so we can properly celebrate the Grand Slam.
Are you watching Warren Gatland?
Seconded. Never have I been so happy to have egg on my face. Toonie's learnt his lessons and applied them. Still some ways to go but credit where it's due. Hopefully our attack can now evolve with Redpath in midfield.
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If the blocked kick had been regathered by an England player the mood on here would be slightly different methinks.
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jimbopip wrote:My enjoyment of the match was slightly marred by a cerebral hemorrhage induced hallucination on 79 minutes 36 seconds; I imagined that after running the clock down with some excellent controlled play we then passed the ball back to Dancer who tried a drop goal that was never on.
If the blocked kick had been regathered by an England player the mood on here would be slightly different methinks.
Very true. We definitely got away with that one!
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I'll.come back with something more sensible later!
Why didn't I get up. Why!
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jimbopip wrote:So which is the rarer occurrence; Scotland winning at Twickers or Toonie playing Shug Jones?
The rarest event is Jones starting. Scotland have won more GrandSlams.
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NeilyBroon wrote:jimbopip wrote:So which is the rarer occurrence; Scotland winning at Twickers or Toonie playing Shug Jones?
The rarest event is Jones starting. Scotland have won more GrandSlams.
Very glad to see Shuggy back in the match squad, but Harris is the man in the shirt and seems in no mood to give it away.
Shuggy will hopefully get his chance again but may have to be patient.
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