Scotland v Tonga Saturday 30th October 2021

Scotland v Tonga
Saturday 30th October 2021

BT Murrayfield Stadium
Edinburgh

KO 14.30
Live on Amazon Prime



Well an international for Scotland to make up for the cancelled matches this summer. We will be without our English and French based players, this match falling outside the window so it will be the opportunity to blood a few new guys and see if they look up to the pace of international rugby. It will also be the chance for the SRU to put a few quid back into its coffers after the lean times of the past few years. I am not normally in favour of playing four games in the autumn, but this time round, for the reasons mentioned, it is probably justifiable.


Tonga are unlikely to be at full strength either but those of us with medium term memories won't forget what Tonga did to Scotland in 2012, possibly the low point of a generally very low period for Scottish rugby and an event that cost Andy Robinson his job!

There is always the hint of a banana skin about a match like this with everything to lose and little to gain for Scotland. Tonga will no doubt turn up proud to represent their country and will be skillful and physical as always if probably more than a little bit under prepared.

Still our players need to be professional about this and especially those that have ambitions to develop their Scotland careers, this is their opportunity to show what they can do.

A decent win for Scotland is probably the only acceptable result for us here, so would expect a team with youngsters and uncapped players mixed with a few old hands to give it some steel. Maybe something like this:


1. Schoeman
2. Turner
3. Keeble
4. Gilchrist
5. Sykes
6. Ritchie
7. Darge
8. Fagerson M
9. Horne G - Probably should be Dobie as Georgie not playing well atm!
10. Thompson
11. Mclean
12. Johnson
13. Bennett
14. Steyn
15. Graham/Hoyland - I can't decide!

Subs

Bhatti
McInally
McCallam
Hodgson
Richardon
Dobie
Kinghorn
Tuipolotu

Bennett and Brown drop out of the squad through injury and are replaced by Bradbury (who has been playing well) and Cherry.

Very tough on Mark Bennett who really deserved his chance after playing very well.


It looks very much like Johnson and Tuipolotu as the centres for the Tonga match then.

There was a lot of centres in the squad already so i can understand not replacing Bennet with Hutchinson until the next AI game when prem players will be allowed to play

Don't see the logic in calling up Bradbury unless there is an injury concern in the backrow or he has forced his way into the reckoning for the proper games.

We should have way too much for Tonga. This is a chance for the possibles to show what they can do in Toonie's system. Happy with BG's side generally. May put Kinghorn at 15 and start Tuipolutu to have Graham and maybe an extra forward (Crosbie or Haining) on the bench.

Ach i'd be inclined to start Graham on the wing, he's on to a good bit of form and if he gets played consistently in his best position over the series he could be immense!

I agree with starting Kinghorn at 15, without him our back 3 are quite miniature

Haining has not to my knowledge played this season, so maybe he is not match fit either and Bradbury has been putting himself about a fair bit.

Ritchie is almost becoming indispensable for us now, but he surely can't play in all four games. so maybe a bit more back row beef required to see us through the whole series.

Apparently Darge is hobbling about in a moon boot as well.

Maybe we will see Richardson starting this one in his place?

15. Darcy Graham – Edinburgh Rugby – 19 caps

14. Kyle Steyn – Glasgow Warriors – 1 cap

13. Sione Tuipulotu – Glasgow Warriors – Uncapped

12. Sam Johnson – Glasgow Warriors – 18 caps

11. Rufus McLean – Glasgow Warriors – Uncapped

10. Blair Kinghorn – Edinburgh Rugby – 25 caps

9. Ali Price (cc) – Glasgow Warriors – 42 caps


1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby – Uncapped

2. George Turner – Glasgow Warriors – 17 caps

3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors – 38 caps

4. Jamie Hodgson – Edinburgh Rugby – Uncapped

5. Rob Harley – Glasgow Warriors – 22 caps

6. Jamie Ritchie (cc) – Edinburgh Rugby – 27 caps

7. Hamish Watson – Edinburgh Rugby – 41 caps

8. Matt Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors – 13 caps



Replacements


16. Stuart McInally – Edinburgh Rugby – 40 caps

17. Jamie Bhatti – Glasgow Warriors – 18 caps

18. Oli Kebble – Glasgow Warriors – 8 caps

19. Marshall Sykes – Edinburgh Rugby – Uncapped

20. Luke Crosbie – Edinburgh Rugby – Uncapped

21. Nick Haining – Edinburgh Rugby – 8 caps

22. Jamie Dobie – Glasgow Warriors – Uncapped

23. Ross Thompson – Glasgow Warriors – Uncapped

As ever with Toonie, not quite the team we imagined!

Not sure anyone saw Blairhorn starting over Thompson, but maybe he just wanted a bit of experience on the pitch to steer the game in the right direction from the off.

You could say the same about Rob Harley, but who would begrudge him another cap in any case?

No sign of Richardson, which probably means he can't play this week outside of the window. Darge by all accounts has an injury.


It should be a strong enough team to beat Tonga comfortably though and a few of the new caps will get their chance to come into the side for the harder games to come.

Haining is a strange choice for me as he hasn't played all season, but Townsend maybe wants to build up his match fitness as we'll be needing big, physical backrows in the tests to come.

Bit of a random team but an exciting one! Can't see that backline playing with much subtlety - it's gonna be all out attack.

RDW wrote:Haining is a strange choice for me as he hasn't played all season, but Townsend maybe wants to build up his match fitness as we'll be needing big, physical backrows in the tests to come.

Bit of a random team but an exciting one!

Yes a little surprising he was picked over Bradbury, who has looked up for it this season so far. But then again he did not pick him in the original squad and may have memories of him drifting out of games many times in the past. Magnus may have to maintain this form for a while before the coaches really start to believe in him again.


When Haining has played for Scotland, he has generally turned up, not something that can always be said about Bradbury.

Playing that back-row against Tonga seems a bit overkill. That side should be up by 20 in the first half.

Don't like the decision on the halfbacks, still don't see Kinghorn as a 10 now or in the future for Scotland. It is not like he has come in and beaten VDW out of his spot at Edinburgh. Versatility is nice but we have Lang (12/10), Hogg (15/10), Thompson (10/15) and Hastings (10/15) with experience enough cover for 20 minutes in another position.

Harley is a bit of an odd choice as well with Gilchrist available but assume that is more to keep Gilchrist ready for Australia and SA.

Either way, this is an opportunity for all these guys to put a hand up for the Australia game and it will be a wonderful moment for 8 new caps (regardless of the result).

Yes, looks like Gilchrist as our only experienced lock is being wrapped in cotton wool!

Very raw players at the back and out wide.

The Hawick half pint is a very good player and although he’s about to hit the big 2 0 for Scotland caps he’ll be inexperienced at 15. Add in a one capper and new cap on the wing with another new cap at 13 and we’re looking very very raw.

2012 showed us we really can’t take Tonga lightly.

We should be drilled and professional enough to win this though.

Hazel Sapling wrote:
Don't like the decision on the halfbacks, still don't see Kinghorn as a 10 now or in the future for Scotland.

Have to say I agree completely on Kinghorn, seems much more wishful thinking than a selection on merit. He’s miles off having shown enough at club level to be relying on him, and he doesn’t bring international experience at 10. The young Weegie should be starting instead

Kinghorn is a rare talent but the reality is that we have better players at FB now.

Hoggy is not giving up his shirt any time soon and Maitland, Shuggy and Graham have all shown they can so a job there. Forbes at Glasgow has also put in a persuasive case to be in the squad as well.

Kinghorn is almost to good to leave out but that is a real danger. He has proved just a bit to loose defensively (even compared to Hogg) to really nail down an international spot at FB and some of the other wingers have a more compelling case than him.

Does he really have the experience and skill set to play FH at international level, that remains to be seen. Edinburgh however are crying out for someone to take the 10 shirt by the horns and own it. VDW has his moments but has also flattered to deceive at times and other than him, it is just untried kids. There is definitely an opportunity for him but he will be competing against Russell, Hastings and increasingly Thompson going forward internationally.

Kinghorn looked like a player for the generations when he first came through but he needs to tighten up and produce the form now that Scotland are blessed with some depth across the board and international caps are hard er to come by!

He certainly has an opportunity, but he should be taking that and proving he has what it takes at club level. Right now Scotland have more to gain by giving experience to Thompson who has already proven he has something special. Odd call by Toonie

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:He certainly has an opportunity, but he should be taking that and proving he has what it takes at club level. Right now Scotland have more to gain by giving experience to Thompson who has already proven he has something special. Odd call by Toonie

I am sure that Thompson will get a good opportunity in this game as well. At some point Kinghorn will move back to FB and Graham/Mclean will be saved for the next round.

These guys are in direct competition now and their respective performances will be scrutinised. Blairhorn has got the experience so not unreasonable for him to start, but he need not be complacent as Thompson will overtake him very quickly if he does not perform.

https://www.theoffsideline.com/scotland-v-tonga-gregor-townsend-aims-to-make-a-virtue-out-of-a-necessity/

RG not out of the equation, just a bit knackered it would seem, same with GG. May well see both later on in the series!

Darge is injured and Kinghorn it seems can play anywhere and is a good defender - not totally sold on that one!

I would have started BK at 15 and Thomson at 10. DG on the wing, KS on the bench.
I see no sense in starting BK at 10. He is 5th choice at best, in that position, and probably 3rd choice 15.
International windows mean that we have to adjust, but playing 2 players out of position just isn't smart.
We will be ok, but it just seems messy.

Kinghorne's tackling technique could be a liability at 10. He goes high becahse he's so tall, but doesn't have the bulk to survive the big collisions. I except to see big forwards running down his channel a lot.

Forgive me for defending Blair (maybe because I'm a new ish rugby fan lol) but from what I saw on Saturday v Zebre, he didn't do too badly apart from a couple of bad kicks from hand or to touch, but tbh any player can do that.

I would still have had him on the wing though mind you.

As I always say, in Townsend we trust .

Whats happened to Weir?

BigGee wrote:Kinghorn is a rare talent .

Anglobraveheart wrote:

I see no sense in starting BK at 10. He is 5th choice at best, in that position, and probably 3rd choice 15.

I actually agree with both comments.
Bairhorn has a huge amount going for him, but he is well behind Dancer, Haircut and Ross The Wonderkid at 10.
Way, way behind Hoggy at 15.

If he is as abundantly talented as he first seemed then why hasn't he taken ownership of a jersey? Is he the out and out first choice in any position for the Luvvies? (I realise that putting the words "out" and "Luvvies " in the same sentence may seem like a cruel barb but it isn't intended that way. )
If he can't own a position at his club then (a) should he be in the Scotland stating XV? (b) is he as good a rugby player as we first thought?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/oct/27/blair-kinghorn-may-take-time-to-settle-as-scotlands-no-10-says-townsend

Townsend seems to see BK as a ten in progress now.

This caught my eye...

The coach also revealed that Warriors lock Richie Gray decided he would be unavailable to face Tonga as he “didn’t feel he was in the right condition”.

So Toonie reached out to Richie (as the Americans would say) and the big fella said no thanks.

You don't see me in your long term plans but you need someone to make up the numbers and get battered against Tonga and then go back to being 6th or 7th on your list.
May well be one interpretation.

BK is competing with Lang and Hogg as 6th choice behind Russell, Hastings, Thompson, VDW and Weir. Of those guys, Hastings is a few months older and Thompson is younger. Russell and VDW are likely around until 2025 (and maybe 2027), so really struggling to see where he fits as a 10 unless they are convinced he is going to pass VDW and no one else (Savala, Chamberlain, Townsend, etc.) comes through by 2025.

On the other hand, Hogg will need to be managed after 2023, Maitland is being phased out and H Jones is in Toonie's dog house. That leaves Forbes, Blain and maybe an O Smith type in 2024 as his main competitors.

For Scotland, Edinburgh should have Kinghorn at 15 rather than Immelman and rely on growing the two youngsters at 10. I guess if VDW is out for a while the opportunities will be available for the young guys.

In other words, it feels like this has to have come from Kinghorn.

On R Gray, makes no sense to have him in for Tonga. He needs to be managed with his injury history. Opportunity knocks for Hodgson and Sykes.

As a utility player himself during his time as a rugby player, I think Toonie and Mike Blair see BK as someone who can suit multiple positions. He was a bit of a wasted talent during the Cockerill era because that gameplan worked against his strengths as an attacking footballer. Hopefully it helped him tighten up other areas of his game. Considering how fragile the depth is at fly half I think they must be looking to bolster the ability of the 3rd to 6th choice players. Hogg shouldn’t have to cover that position anytime one of Russell, Hastings or VDW are injured. He’s Scotland’s fullback while Kinghorn is just one of many talented wingers who can play full back too.

To be fair to RG he has played every game so far this season and probably did need a rest. I did not get the imprrssion that Toonie was ruling him out and i imagine if GG was to get injured, he would still bring him in as his experieced lock.

It is just hard to know whst RG motivation is like for international rugby these days and whether he really does see himself as part of the next WC squad?

To me he is playing better than he has for ages just now, so he does seem to still have it in the tank but he does nof seem that hungry for it either.

We'll know more as the tournament progresses i guess, hard to imagine therd won't be some injuries as we go through the matches

The thought of our current stock of young locks coming up against the Bok pack is pretty terrifying.

RDW wrote:The thought of our current stock of young locks coming up against the Bok pack is pretty terrifying.

Well they will grow up quickly i guess!


Gilchrist and Skinner should be ok but if they are not, then you can see the sense in trying to get RG back into the squad!

It's an interesting team selection. As with others I find BK at 10 slightly puzzling. I'd have given RT the full 80 personally. The more experience he gets the better.

Lock is a problem for us, and whilst I'm delighted for Rob Harley he clearly isn't a proper international lock. I'd expect Ritchie to be used as a jumper, and I'm slightly concerned about the lineout.

Still, plenty to be excited about, and lots of new talent for Toonie to cast his eye over. The back three could be really exciting if given the chance.

Nice to be back on these threads.

To allow myself a moment of Jimbo-like personal narrative, one of the main reasons I am looking forward to this AI series is that I nearly wasn’t here to enjoy it at all. This is the first night in the past five where I’m not lying in a Dubai ICU connected to an ECG machine, an oxygenation clip, a cannula and an oxygen line.

The story is so dumb I have managed to impress myself with it. I was back doing full personal training sessions these past 2 months - one hour 3 x times per week of boxing and weight training. I thought that being out of breath was the product of being an out of weight 40 something and felt I just needed to work on my fitness.

On Sunday morning I walked downstairs to my kitchen, walked back upstairs with a cup of tea and realised I was wheezing like the proverbial asthmatic snail with heavy shopping. One emergency appointment with my GP and rapid hospital referral later revealed a huge clot in the centre of my lungs (pulmonary embolism) which straddled both lungs. The ICU consultant said on 3 occasions “I really don’t understand why you aren’t dead”. A barman said the same thing to me once but that’s a different story.

4 days of confined to bed wired up to every machine that goes ‘bing’ and with enough industrial strength blood thinners to knock down a racehorse, apparently there’s every chance I might get away with this one.

The message - get yourself checked gentlemen. Or you may not get the chance to see Blairhorn squished into paste by a giant bunch of Tongan loose forwards after all. Game on.

I think we can all agree the gangling skite should not be playing 10.

Scary story GC

I am sure i speak for all of us when i say we are all very glad you found it in time and will live to fight another day.

Except no fighting, or any other contact sports whilst on the anti-coagulants.

Life is a precious thing and a glimpse at your own mortality can make you appreciate just what you have got.

Get well soon!

Get well soon GC! Something to read whilst you while away the hours in recuperation:

https://thefinalthistle.wordpress.com/2021/10/28/toony-tombola-versus-tonga/

Personally think it would've been the perfect time to bleed McCallum back in, alongside capping Richardson ASAP. The most important thing from this series will be getting Ashman and Bayliss capped!

thefinalthistle wrote:Get well soon GC! Something to read whilst you while away the hours in recuperation:

https://thefinalthistle.wordpress.com/2021/10/28/toony-tombola-versus-tonga/

Personally think it would've been the perfect time to bleed McCallum back in, alongside capping Richardson ASAP. The most important thing from this series will be getting Ashman and Bayliss capped!

Good article but still not clear if Richardson really available or not. Toonie did not mention him in his press releases at all. With a 6:2 bench split and Darge injured, he had every opportunity to cap him if he was able to play.

CG, welcome back to the madness. I’d say you were missed but my primary 4 teacher always said that we should tell the truth.

In reference to the doctor who said “I really don’t understand why you are not dead”, well, I hope he wasn’t meaning that in a “my god he’s still here” capacity. Clearly he didn’t know that that you have an unclaimed scratch card for £2 and everygood Weegie will always hang onto life no matter how grim if there’s a wee Bob or two to look forward to. Did you know that most Glaswegian men die before paying their bar tab?

But really, lovely to see you are on the mend and just in time to see the Scotland games. Be thankful it wasn’t ticker trouble you were having or there be no Scotland rugby for you.

And if you feel unwell, please feel free to refer yourself to Nurse Gee for free healthcare advice

I assume Richardson was available as he plays for Sharks in the URC! Still plenty of time to cap him.. and quite possibly cap him in the front-row, as Brown is now out!

George you need to look after yourself mate. Easy does it.

tigertattie wrote:CG, welcome back to the madness. I’d say you were missed but my primary 4 teacher always said that we should tell the truth. You notice that tigertattie never mentions any teachers beyond primary4? Mind you in Gorgie that would count as post graduate level!

In reference to the doctor who said “I really don’t understand why you are not dead”, well, I hope he wasn’t meaning that in a “my god he’s still here” capacity.I would start to worry if the medic kept saying, " I really don't understand..." at the beginning of sentences. "I really don't understand why you go blue in the face every time I unplug this machine." or "I really don't understand why we're going to all this effort for a blood sucking lawyer, she got the house, half my wages and the Perry Como cd's. lawyers, hanging's too good for them. Clearly he didn’t know that that you have an unclaimed scratch card for £2 and everygood Weegie will always hang onto life no matter how grim if there’s a wee Bob or two to look forward to. Did you know that most Glaswegian men die before paying their bar tab? Actually, as GC and I know...most Glaswegian men would die before paying their bar tab. GC would die before paying anything, is what I hear.

But really, lovely to see you are on the mend and just in time to see the Scotland games. Be thankful it wasn’t ticker trouble you were having or there be no Scotland rugby for you.

And if you feel unwell, please feel free to refer yourself to Nurse Gee for free healthcare advice

GC, take care. Feet up plenty of rest.
To paraphrase your doctor, I really don't understand why you spent 23 years to get your law degree and found a position on another continent just to escape the razor gangs and sectarian wars of the No Mean city and then pay to join a gym so you can box!!!!

I love this place sometimes

First of all, GC that's feckin terrifying - I'm so glad to hear you're on the mend. There'll always be a home for you here if you need to spend all day talking pish as you're not allowed to do anything else!

Second of all the replies afterwards and banter on here has been something else

Mend fast George. Glad to hear you are on the up now.

RDW wrote:I love this place sometimes

First of all, GC that's feckin terrifying - I'm so glad to hear you're on the mend. There'll always be a home for you here if you need to spend all day talking pish as you're not allowed to do anything else!

Second of all the replies afterwards and banter on here has been something else

Well we can’t just say “oh dear, get well soon”

We don’t want admin boy jnr to think we actually like him (or any of his west coast brethren)

We don’t all have shiny badges but we’re all friends here

Oh dear, get well soon.????
I knew there was something that I meant to say.

GC! Get well you Ayr originating world class chap. Get yerself back to Scotland, as it sounds like the michelin star cuisine of Leith is all you need (chippie, salt n'sauce washed down with Irn Bru).

As for Kinghorn getting mashed, dream on my friend. If I had a quid for every time the phrase "deceptively quick" was deployed for Kinghorn I'd be drinking a marginally better vintage of Petrus this evening...

As an aside, I have a four tickets going a begging for the South Africa game, so PM me if interested.

thefinalthistle wrote:Get well soon GC! Something to read whilst you while away the hours in recuperation:

https://thefinalthistle.wordpress.com/2021/10/28/toony-tombola-versus-tonga/

Personally think it would've been the perfect time to bleed McCallum back in, alongside capping Richardson ASAP. The most important thing from this series will be getting Ashman and Bayliss capped!

Another very good article Andrew .

funnyExiledScot wrote:GC! Get well you Ayr originating world class chap. Get yerself back to Scotland, as it sounds like the michelin star cuisine of Leith is all you need (chippie, salt n'sauce washed down with Irn Bru).

As for Kinghorn getting mashed, dream on my friend. If I had a quid for every time the phrase "deceptively quick" was deployed for Kinghorn I'd be drinking a marginally better vintage of Petrus this evening...

As an aside, I have a four tickets going a begging for the South Africa game, so PM me if interested.

Is this just for bloated capitalist blood sucking layers? Or seriously ill posters?
I have a very nasty rash in a non public area...does that count?
Seriously, Caz the quiet Bokkie was trying to get u to HQ for this match but we couldn't get tickets. PM me if you get stuck with them you festering pile of Tory privilege .

GC, get well soon. I hope you can recover well and continue with your fitness efforts, just without the contact in boxing maybe?  
Travelling, or should I say, swimming up the M6 today, to take the junior Anglos to the Tonga game tomorrow. I have just checked the forecast, and there is sunshine from 2pm in Edinburgh. Should be a great day for the new tyros to put their hands up.
Hopefully our forwards can dominate, and give the backs loads of ball to run amuck.
I understand it is a fairly green Tonga team, so they will be very keen, as well as robust.
Could be a good match with both sides having something to prove.