Edinburgh v Glasgow The 1872 Cup Saturday 2nd January 2021

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Edinburgh v Glasgow
The 1872 Cup Second leg (First leg postponed)

Saturday 2nd January 2021
BT Murrayfield Stadium
Edinburgh

KO 15.00

Live on Premier Sport


Well it is going to be a one legged cup competition this holiday season for the Scots, with the Scotstoun leg having been postponed already. It will also feel strange as this is traditionally one of the few club games at Murrayfield that attracts a crowd to do it justice.

Consequently both sides will have had a bit of a break, Glasgow, hopefully just in time to find some form and Edinburgh, hopeful that they won't lose theirs!

These games rarely go to any kind of form in any case and the lack of a crowd may well make it even more of a lottery. Still bragging rights, old scores and the ability to impress Toonie will still be there. With not much going on in the league for either team and no chance of making any progress under the fprmat this year, maybe the shckles might come off a bit and we could get a decent game, something these fixtures rarely are.

I am going for a Glasgow side something along these lines, everyone has had a rest, so no reason not to go full in, they can rest players for the dead rubbers coming up in the euro qualifiers:


1. Keeble
2. Brown
3. Fagerson Z
4. Cummings
5. McDonald
6. Harley
7. Gordon
8. Fagerson M
9. Price
10. Horne P
11. Jones L
12. Johnson
13. Jones H
14. Seymour
15. Bryce

Subs:
Seuili
Turner
Pieretto
Gray R
Nakarawa
Dobie
Thompson
Grigg

Naks we may see coming on in the back row. Huw Jones may move to either wing or FB at some stage as well.

I guess we will see?

Will leave the Edinburgh team up to the Luvies on here!

I'm watching it on record this evening. Grim viewing from both sides. Edinburgh scrum is terrific, and that's about it. Lineout a shambles. Glasgow plenty heart but too many square pegs in round holes. Really need a proper 10.

My take away is that both sides are in a sorry state. That Edinburgh can't fashion a decent attack with Kinghorn, Duhan, D'Arcy and Bennett in the outside channels is quite remarkable. Cockerill and Hodge working miracles....

Huw Jones looks sharp and confident. Let's get him back in a 13 jersey please!

Oh, and nice to see Big Richie back at lock for Glasgow. Such a good player, and Cummings goes from strength to strength.

Actually Flounder it wasn't a bad game. I thought the rugby club were the better side but the Luvvies aggressive defence stopped them opening up the game. The Luvvies innate lack of creativity also prevented the home side from creating anything. The scrum became a major source of territory and possession as it was penalty Edinburgh almost every time.

jimbopip wrote:Actually Flounder it wasn't a bad game. I thought the rugby club were the better side but the Luvvies aggressive defence stopped them opening up the game. The Luvvies innate lack of creativity also prevented the home side from creating anything.  The scrum became a major source of territory and possession as it was penalty Edinburgh almost every time.

Who then kicked it to touch and Ritchie Gray turned over the lineout - and repeat!

Ah Jimbo, a moral victory to Glasgow. Of course. Enjoy!

BigGee wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Actually Flounder it wasn't a bad game. I thought the rugby club were the better side but the Luvvies aggressive defence stopped them opening up the game. The Luvvies innate lack of creativity also prevented the home side from creating anything.  The scrum became a major source of territory and possession as it was penalty Edinburgh almost every time.

Who then kicked it to touch and Ritchie Gray turned over the lineout - and repeat!

Tell me about it. No idea why we didn't take points on offer. It's not like our backs are properly coached or anything, so no chance of creating anything. Our scrum was utterly dominant. You could argue that Glasgow were very lucky not to have front row players in the bin. So why not just take the points and re-group?

Not sure our on-field leadership is up to much!

Oh what to do???

Glasgow are rank. They are a collection of good players who simply aren’t clicking. There’s moments of great play such as shug but as a collective they are just meh. The Glasgow forwards just don’t compete when they come up against well drilled pack

Edinburgh on the other hand are the opposite. Our backs are mostly utterly average players who only get where they are due to the forwards. The exception to this is perhaps still Bennett who can’t buy a ticket to a Scotland training camp for some reason.

The fact that shug and Bennett are being kept out of the Scotland squad by blairhorn and Harris sums up entirely Scotland’s current direction.

Ritchie Gray is getting back to his old self but needs a run of performances to feature again for Scotland. He may struggle to get that run playing in a rank rotten Glasgow side. Edinburgh aren’t much better though to be fair.

Worrying times

It’s getting to the stage where the SRU need to sit cockers and Wilson down and asking them what direction they want to take, what style of rugby they want to play and then letting them pick the players on the SRU payroll that will suit their style. Almost like a project reset

Also Edinburgh need to sack hodge but we all know that already.

Bit harsh to say the Edinburgh backs are mediocre! Graham and VdM are decent players, as well as Bennett. The midfield is pretty meh generally beyond that, they are really missing Scott. Hodge also doesn't help matters but we all knew that anyway.

Glasgow are very frustrating. On one hand you have top performers like Jones and Cummings, on the other hand you have dreadful players like Thomson who just shouldn't be on the field and Wilson getting penalised every breakdown. Also struggle to see what seiuli offers over our other options. Time to roll the dice on youth now that the furlough and Covid issues appear to be sorted. I'd start Dobbie as well, price is nothing to write home about and has been like that for a while. He doesn't even have any particularly good game management, he's like a slightly better version of pyrgos.

Fair point nelly. The issue is both Edinburgh wings aren’t getting the ball due to the mediocrity inside them and the attack coaching.

VDM has shown for Scotland what he can do with limited ball but Darcy seems to have stagnated. The SRU simply must get a proper attack coach in at Edinburgh. VDM is already getting out of there and Darcy will be soon to follow I’d think.

Horrible game, Edinburgh really have no cutting edge at all at the moment which just doesn’t make sense with some of the players we have available. One thing that puzzles me, we all complain on here about Duncan Hodge’s coaching of the backline and he’s been coaching at Edinburgh for 5 years now. But I don’t see any of the Scottish rugby journos questioning his role at all. Why is it that the questions we’re all asking aren’t being raised by the media? Surely there was ample evidence yesterday as there has been for a long time now to ask why Edinburgh aren’t able to make more of the talent in their backline and if it’s not time to do something about it?!

And to emphasise the point, a BBC article highlights the lack of attacking quality but doesn’t say a word about the quality of the attack coaching. Teflon Hodge strikes again!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55522218

Hodge definitely seems to have the rub of the green with media scrutiny and must have some mates at Murrayfield as is often the case with the perpetually incompetent in the Scottish set up. I thought he's been around since Solly though?

It’ll get picked up on soon. I’m sure the mainstream media go through forums to steal things to talk about.

Glasgow Warriors team to face Edinburgh in the Guinness PRO14, Friday 8 January, kick-off 7.35pm, live on Premier Sports 1. You can follow the action in our Live Match Centre at glasgowwarriors.org.

1. Oli Kebble (52)
2. George Turner (55)
3. Zander Fagerson (96)
4. Richie Gray (52)
5. Scott Cummings (74)
6. Ryan Wilson (C) (180)
7. Tom Gordon (26)
8. Matt Fagerson (67)

9. Ali Price (92)
10. Ross Thompson (1)
11. Rufus McLean (0)
12. Robbie Fergusson (6)
13. Nick Grigg (80)
14. Lee Jones (86)
15. Huw Jones (44)

Replacements

16. Johnny Matthews (6)
17. Aki Seiuli (21)
18. Enrique Pieretto (9)
19. Lewis Bean (5)
20. TJ Ioane (8)
21. Jamie Dobie (14)
22. Brandon Thomson (31)
23. Glenn Bryce (33)

Unavailable for selection: Alex Allan, Fraser Brown, Rob Harley, Adam Hastings, George Horne, Pete Horne, Sam Johnson, Sean Kennedy, Kiran McDonald, Niko Matawalu, Leone Nakarawa, Tommy Seymour, Kyle Steyn

Well Ross Thompson and Rufus McLean get a start, which can only be a good thing.

Decent starting line up but not a strong bench again, which was the weakness for Glasgow last week.

Looking forward to seeing how this team and the youngsters in particular get on.

A 10 with fifteen minutes Pro xx experience is preferred to BT. I think the shoogly peg just hit the floor.
Kebble should go some way to steadying the front row. The big question for me is can Fergusson bring the creativity to get the ball away from the Luvvies' rush defence. Oh and if Turner can hit his jumpers when we are on their try line that would probably help.

I am not unhappy to see BT on the bench Jim. Hix confidence is shot and i don't see him getting it back.

I am not expecting wonders from the young kid, but it is worth giving him a chance. We have got nothing to lose really

Feel a tad better about the Glasgow line up. If the starting front five can gain parity in the scrum and win the line-outs, there is a shot Glasgow can win this. The bench lacks quality so really need to find a way to get ahead by more than a score entering the last 20. Expecting Edinburgh to win but who knows

Ross Thompson looked alright and was able to make a simple kick when he came on last week. If he can be competent for 60 minutes and kick his goals, that is B Thomson's time at Glasgow well and truly up

McLean has a chance to take a senior spot. Not expecting too much from him though Robbie Nairn's professional hopes may be over if he shows he is ready

Glenn Bryce gets to wave goodbye to Glasgow. He has generally been alright when playing for Glasgow even if he could not hack it at Edinburgh under Solomons. Not the only one in that regard

Stewart not on the injury list and Matthews ahead of him? Not sure about that one. Nor do I have great faith in having Pieretto over Rae.

Gee, hope you're coping and looking after yourself.
With Haircut and Furra unavailable there are no other options; I'm not sure BT would have made the bench if there had been.
GG and the soon to depart ex Warrior come into the second row for the Luvvies. I think they'll get even more of a battering than last week's pairing.

Edinburgh have actually done some rotation!

McLean is going to get a nice quiet introduction to pro rugby up against Sau...

Edinburgh team to play Glasgow Warriors at Scotstoun Stadium in the Guinness PRO14 (1872 Cup)
Friday 8 January (kick-off 7.35pm) – live on Premier Sports



15. Blair Kinghorn (94)



14. Eroni Sau (15)

13. Mark Bennett (46)

12. Chris Dean (101)

11. Jack Blain (7)



10. Jaco van der Walt (65)

9. Nic Groom (20)



1. Rory Sutherland (89)

2. Stuart McInally CO-CAPTAIN (151)

3. Simon Berghan (87)

4. Andrew Davidson (10)

5. Grant Gilchrist CO-CAPTAIN (153)

6. Jamie Ritchie (73)

7. Hamish Watson (116)

8. Viliame Mata (79)



Substitutes:

16. David Cherry (29)

17. Pierre Schoeman (54)

18. WP Nel (149)

19. Jamie Hodgson (14)

20. Magnus Bradbury (87)

21. Henry Pyrgos (42)

22. Nathan Chamberlain (6)

23. James Johnstone (58)

Edinburgh by 40 points.

Kebble should give us parity in the scrum, the lack of penalties will mean the Luvvies will struggle to get out their half. Rufus McLean will use Sau as a rag doll. Thompson will scythe through the statuesque VDW's "defence".
Easy home win.

Whilst it is jolly nice of Cockerill to rest Nel, I still don't think "Glasgow scrum" and "parity" belong in the same sentence. The only question is whether or not Edinburgh will be ruthless with our domination, hammer in the nail and take points on offer. Last time we treated it like a glorified training exercise. I know we won, but I'd like a scoreline that reflects how much better we are....

Oh Fes, you will be a long time waiting for that train to roll into the station.
Scrum apart we were the better side last week. GG and Davidson will be second to Cummings and Old Gray in every facet of the game: unless "lumbering aimlessly" is considered an aspect.
The back rows are pretty even but having a no8 who is neither fat nor out of condition probably tips the balance for the rugby club.
Aldi Price is a proper scrum half which puts him well ahead of Nic Groom. VDW has Dan Parks' running game but, sadly, not his game management; young Thompson will enjoy being the best 10 on the pitch.
I could go on but it's too easy...like accusing Bojo of being slightly venial...there's no challenge.
So looking forward to seeing the convincing win.

Soooo

Game of I spy anyone?

Luvvies galloping into the changing rooms: Warriors out on the pitch demanding the game continues.
Moral victory to the rugby club.

Not Edinburgh’s fault that Glasgow can’t afford underfloor heating

I pray to god that the media continues to cover the Glasgow touch and footy games about to take place

The semi-opposed game is (a) to prove a point :real men aren't scared of the cold even if their genitals wither and turn blue, and (b) the winning side get the points for tonight's match. Which since it's Glasgow v Glasgow should ensure a 0-0 draw.

Glasgow probably hoping the game would go ahead with unopposed scrums. Nice try. Let off for the Warriors.

Three players are set to make their club debuts this weekend, as Glasgow Warriors also welcome back Fijian international Leone Nakarawa ahead of tomorrow’s 1872 Cup clash with Edinburgh at Scotstoun.

Head Coach Danny Wilson has made just one alteration to the starting XV that was named ahead of last weekend’s postponed fixture, which sees Aki Seiuli come in for Oli Kebble at loose-head prop.

It means that Scotland U20 star Rufus McLean will make his club debut on the wing this weekend, whilst Ross Thompson starts for the Warriors at fly-half for the first time after making his debut at BT Murrayfield a fortnight ago.

Seiuli’s inclusion means that it’s the same front row that started the clash in the capital on January 2, with George Turner and Zander Fagerson lining up alongside the former Highlander.

Richie Gray and Scott Cummings continue as the second row partnership, having wreaked havoc on the Edinburgh lineout at BT Murrayfield.

Ryan Wilson captains the side from the blindside flank, Tom Gordon and Matt Fagerson completing the back row and the forward pack.

A mixture of youth and experience forms the half-back partnership, as Ali Price – the Glasgow back with the most appearances for the club – lines up alongside fly-half Thompson.

Scotland 7s captain Robbie Fergusson lines up at inside centre, with Nick Grigg starting outside him in the 13 jersey.

McLean once again joins Lee Jones as one half of the wing duo, as Huw Jones lines up at full-back.

There are two further potential debutants named amongst the replacements for tomorrow evening’s encounter, as academy duo Tom Lambert and Ollie Smith are named in a Glasgow matchday 23 for the first time.

Scotland U20 prop Lambert provides cover at loose-head, joining the recently re-signed Johnny Matthews and Argentinian Enrique Pieretto as the front row replacements.

Nakarawa is in line for his first Glasgow appearance in 11 months, with the Fijian’s most recent Warriors outing coming in the club’s last home match pre-COVID-19 against the Dragons back in February 2020.

Rob Harley makes a return to the matchday squad after being unavailable for the trip to BT Murrayfield, whilst Jamie Dobie continues in the 21 shirt.

Academy prospect and Scotland U20 flyer Smith will look to demonstrate his pace and footwork to the Warrior Nation should he come off the bench tomorrow evening, with Brandon Thomson completing the matchday 23.


Speaking to glasgowwarriors.org, Head Coach Wilson said: “Like we said last weekend, we want to give an opportunity to a few boys we think deserve their shot based on their efforts in training over the last couple of weeks.

“There are a lot of highlights in this week’s team selection. We’re excited to see how Ross [Thompson] goes at fly-half and for Rufus [McLean] to get his first run out for the club.

“On the bench we’re looking forward to welcoming back Leone and giving Tom Lambert and Ollie Smith their first taste of senior rugby.

“We’ve worked hard this week in training, and we’re excited to get the game underway.”

Glasgow Warriors team to face Edinburgh in the Guinness PRO14, Saturday 16 January, kick-off 5.15pmpm, live on Premier Sports 1. You can follow the action in our Live Match Centre at glasgowwarriors.org.

1. Aki Seiuli (21)
2. George Turner (55)
3. Zander Fagerson (96)
4. Richie Gray (52)
5. Scott Cummings (74)
6. Ryan Wilson (C) (180)
7. Tom Gordon (26)
8. Matt Fagerson (67)

9. Ali Price (92)
10. Ross Thompson (1)
11. Rufus McLean (0)
12. Robbie Fergusson (6)
13. Nick Grigg (80)
14. Lee Jones (86)
15. Huw Jones (44)

Replacements

16. Johnny Matthews (6)
17. Tom Lambert (0)
18. Enrique Pieretto (9)
19. Leone Nakarawa (72)
20. Rob Harley (240)
21. Jamie Dobie (14)
22. Brandon Thomson (31)
23. Ollie Smith (0)

Unavailable for selection: Alex Allan, Fraser Brown, Adam Hastings, George Horne, Pete Horne, Sam Johnson, Oli Kebble, Paddy Kelly, Sean Kennedy, Niko Matawalu, Kiran McDonald, Ewan McQuillin, Tommy Seymour, Kyle Steyn, George Thornton.

Well we finally see Leone back in Glasgow colours this weekend. Not quite ready for a start, but 20 mins of the bench will be a good enough start and may prove to be very useful if we require a spectacular off load to win the game!

Good to see more youngsters, lambert and Smith getting their debuts as well!

Did the injury list get longer? Kebble, Thornton injured. What are they doing in training or is it Covid precautions?

Scrum is going to be ugly to watch. God help Lambert if he is going up against Nel.

Happy to see the academy players get an opportunity though. If the new boys can show positive flashes and nothing too glaringly poor, it stands us in good stead for the future.

Head Coach Richard Cockerill has made three injury-influenced changes to the starting Edinburgh Rugby side named for tomorrow’s rescheduled 1872 Cup derby against Glasgow Warriors (16 January, kick-off 5.15pm) – live on Premier Sports.

Edinburgh edged the previous meeting between the sides 10-7 after the turn of the New Year at BT Murrayfield Stadium, with tomorrow’s return fixture vital for Guinness PRO14 points alongside the prospect of keeping the coveted 1872 Cup in the east of Scotland.

Forward duo David Cherry (hooker) and Magnus Bradbury (back-row) are promoted from the bench into the side named for last week’s called-off contest in place of Stuart McInally (neck strain) and Jamie Ritchie (head) who were injured (separately) in training this week. Mike Willemse and Luke Crosbie take the vacated places on the bench.

The postponement has, however, afforded lock Ben Toolis sufficient time to recover and return from injury and start alongside fellow Scotland internationalist Grant Gilchrist, who was set for a return from a three-month lay-off last weekend.

The pack is completed by Rory Sutherland and Simon Berghan, who join Cherry in the front-row, while Viliame Mata (number 8) and openside Hamish Watson accompany Bradbury in the loose forwards.

The unaltered back line sees full-back Blair Kinghorn combine with the reselected wings Eroni Sau and Jack Blain, with centres Mark Bennett and Chris Dean, and half-backs Jaco van der Walt and Nic Groom, also recalled.

Once more popular tighthead prop WP Nel awaits the opportunity to take the field and earn his 150th appearance for the club from the bench.

Edinburgh Rugby Head Coach, Richard Cockerill, said: “It was frustrating for everyone involved not to have the gamed played last weekend, but the safety of the players was paramount, and the right decision was made.

“Our last match remains the 10-7 win over Glasgow at home last month and we’ve had another week to prepare and work on elements we’re looking to improve, as have the Warriors.

“It’s disappointing to lose a couple of players since we last named the team but it’ll be good to see Gilcho [Grant Gilchrist] and Ben [Toolis] make their comeback as both players will bring a lot of experience and quality.

“As I said last time round, these derby matches mean a lot to us. That message and our motivation hasn’t changed, and we’ll be going out there to find a way to win for league points and our supporters.”

Edinburgh team to play Glasgow Warriors at Scotstoun in the Guinness PRO14 (1872 Cup)
Saturday 16 January (kick-off 5.15pm) – live on Premier Sports

15. Blair Kinghorn (94)
14. Jack Blain (7)
13. Mark Bennett (46)
12. Chris Dean (101)
11. Eroni Sau (15)
10. Jaco van der Walt (65)
9. Nic Groom CO-CAPTAIN (20)

1. Rory Sutherland (89)
2. David Cherry (29)
3. Simon Berghan (87)
4. Ben Toolis (126)
5. Grant Gilchrist CO-CAPTAIN (153)
6. Magnus Bradbury (87)
7. Hamish Watson (116)
8. Viliame Mata (79)

Substitutes:

16. Mike Willemse (30)
17. Pierre Schoeman (54)
18. WP Nel (149)
19. Jamie Hodgson (14)
20. Luke Crosbie (46)
21. Henry Pyrgos (42)
22. Nathan Chamberlain (6)
23. James Johnstone (58)

Unavailable through injury: Lewis Carmichael, Andrew Davidson, Dan Gamble, Darcy Graham, Damien Hoyland, Murray McCallum, Stuart McInally, Fraser McKenzie, Dan Nutton, Jamie Ritchie, Charlie Savala, George Taylor, Duhan van der Merwe.

Hazel Sapling wrote:Did the injury list get longer? Kebble, Thornton injured. What are they doing in training or is it Covid precautions?

Scrum is going to be ugly to watch. God help Lambert if he is going up against Nel.

Happy to see the academy players get an opportunity though. If the new boys can show positive flashes and nothing too glaringly poor, it stands us in good stead for the future.

Apparently Kebble sustained a head knock in training.
There is a lot of bulk on the bench; Big Bad and Naknaks to support Lambert when he comes on. TBH it's Pierretto and Sue Ellen who worry me most at scrum time.

Only one winner here. Let's not gift them a losing bonus point.

Well done FES for trying to maintain the witty badinage. Sadly, you forgot to be witty. Or relevant.

Glasgow by 17 points. Or two falls and a submission.

I can only assume you mean "moral points".

Still, I am pleased to see Nakawara back. He's been badly missed.

Well! Mr Glass deserves an Oscar. The Luvvies ' scrum showing it can go backwards faster than it can go forward.
Once the numbers are level Glasgow will have it.

I've only got the match on the warriors matchday live updates.
Was the Turner yellow due to his (recurring) indiscipline?

Edinburgh just played some rugby! Surely a mistake

Anglo, it was harsh! He was standing guard as Aldi Price box kicked. Grant Gilchrist tried to jump into/over him; Turner dropped his shoulder and GG did the dying swan act. OR Turner drove his shoulder up into his ribs.

Mark Bennett with the conversion too!

Much better game. Ross Thompson looked the part and got MOM Hugh Jones and Bennnet both looked good. thats surely good for Scotland but we wus robbed! You soapdodgers needed help from a train driver!

Schizoid driving trains during lock down!! Who knew??

Only caught bits of that. Will give it a proper watch later.

How sloppy is Kinghorn?
Should be dropped til he can get rid of the brain farts but we have no-one else at 15....

Thanks guys, sounds like Turner needs to revisit his control of discipline plan, but sounded like good performances by H Jones, Bennett, Gray, Fagersons and Watson all being involved.
It also sounds promising from young Thompson.

I thought the Glasgow scrum was superb.

Turner was a bit unlucky I thought. some refs would have not penalised it.

TJ wrote:Turner was a bit unlucky I thought.  some refs would have not penalised it.  

Thing is TJ, he has form for indiscipline, so he's not going to fair well when it comes to 50/50 decisions.
Hopefully it'll be what he needs. Get it out of the way now, and not during the 6N. His darts are usually ok, and we need that, with McInally's being a bit dodgy at times.