Pro 16 needs to pull the plug on Premier Sports

If the Pro 16 wants to compete with the likes of the other top leagues in Europe and further abroad, they need to part ways with Premier Sports. The current Premier Sports contract with the Pro 14 finishes at the end of this season it still remains to be seen if this will be renewed or another broadcaster will takeover the rights.

Many fans have voiced their dislike of the online platform which after several seasons appears to be stable via Sky or Virgin sports packages but less so as an outright online viewing package. Coupled with annoying multiple login requirements to swap from devices and random lost connection error codes before, during and even when trying to watch on demand matches, it would be a real shame to see the new Pro 16 format begin in this manner.

Do you feel the upcoming Pro 16 competition would be a good addition to BT Sports or Sky Sports or even one of the streaming platforms like Amazon Prime?

Would it be better for a return to the domestic networks in a similar format as before?

Could CVC play a part in this decision with their recent investment in the Pro 14 league and 6N?

I could not agree more with this.

Premier Sports was a disaster from the start. If the Pro14/16 is to go behind a paywall, then it needs to be on a more mainstream one.

Otherwise let it go back on free to air tv.

I wonder how much Supersport is going to pay for the pro16 in SA

I don’t think I really had any issues with Premier, but saw it quite often that people did. I view online and never have issues. But I have heard of the location issues too, where it would still be set as if it was broadcasting in Ireland and block other countries (geoblocking or whatever).

What they did well, was offering coverage of virtually every game. So whoever does get the contract next (and I think it will be somebody new), needs to take it further and offer the same. I am not sure if Sky or BT would provide that service really, without sharing games out elsewhere.

If Sky are doing it they would want it at a low price, Sky have spent huge sums securing the rights to Premier League football when coupled with the sums they spend on golf, f1 and nfl they don't have unlimited sums of cash to throw at other sports that don't hugely move the needle for them, hence why they have lost a number of rights to BT and Premier recently.

BT will most likely be more focused on english rugby but again for the right price might get involved.

Its a fairly big deal for Premier and so they may be more willing to throw extra money at it, although they have signed deals with Italian football and spanish football so who knows how that limits them

With CVC i would imagine they will do what will line their pockets the most

The names involved would likely be:
Sky, BT Sport, Premier Sports, Free to air channels (most likely bbc but itv and ch 4 have shown some interest in rugby) Amazon Prime (very unlikely but at the right price could be tempted)

All these would very much depend on the price.

In all likelihood if it does not go to Premier Sports then with any of the rest it would most likely be a shared schedule with the pay channel taking some and the rest being put out online or on free to air.

If Premier pay the most it's viewed as being a poor deal for the league because people don't want to pay £10 to see ever game of every round.

If it goes to freeview then the league has no ambition and isn't a good product because they can't get a big tv deal

Whoever they sign with people will complain.

Brendan wrote:If Premier pay the most it's viewed as being a poor deal for the league because people don't want to pay £10 to see ever game of every round.

If it goes to freeview then the league has no ambition and isn't a good product because they can't get a big tv deal

Whoever they sign with people will complain.

£10 a week is a good deal. But the thing is, the only people who will pay it, are the fans of the Pro14. When it was on free to air, then more people were watching it, giving the league more exposure.

The thing is, Premier Sports do not offer anything other than the Pro14, unless you like sports from other countries, like ice hockey or Italian football, at least if BT or SKY got it, you would have the premier league football as well.

Unfortunately the Pro14 as a product in it's own right does not have a big enough pull.

Also, whilst we are on the subject, if it is going behind a paywall, it should be all one broadcaster, not across multiple platforms.

As with everything else, COVID will have an impact. I think I remember reading the Sky's deal with the RFL to show Super League was going to be 25% lower per year than the deal which was coming to an end this year, and that's the only significant sporting contract to be renewed recently.

Pro16 isn't in a position in the UK to demand one broadcaster, all games available, premium channels etc. If they can match the previous deal financially with less games and on one of the mainstream channels that'll be a very good result in my view. Amazon could be interesting if they feel they the ANC offered enough subscriptions etc

Amazon would work for me, but we shall see. I would only need coverage for away games anyway.

I remember Simon Thomas (WOL) tweeting about it during the ANC, that he found it amazing how many people actually had Prime to watch Wales, but weren't aware of it. They seemingly thought they could use it for online shopping only and would have to take a separate subscription to watch sport.

They go pretty hard on advertising when they have a round of the Premier League coming up but I can't really remember seeing much for the ANC. Shouting about what they have is normally their strong point!

Trouble with being keen to jump from Premier Sports, to terrestrial,  is the considerable drop in income.
Premier Sports doubled the TV money.
This drop would be on the back of the already significant financial loss from no crowds because of Covid.

I have had no technical issues.
My concern, as it has always been is Sky Sports is very expensive, if you are not a Soccer fan
The impact on me would be:
BT - saving of £10 as I already have
Amazon - saving of £10 as I already have
Premier Sports retain - no difference
Sky - extra £20 a month

Cant see it being BT as it would not fit with their Premiership schedule.

Reading the news and gossip on the interweb over past few months, I think Premier Sports are looking to slash costs, so it will be interesting to see where this goes, as the Pro14 will not get the same deal again in my opinion.

I read this a few months ago:-

https://www.dai-sport.com/pro14-tv-deal-thrown-into-doubt-as-premier-sports-slash-costs/

geoff999rugby wrote:Trouble with being keen to jump from Premier Sports, to terrestrial,  is the considerable drop in income.
Premier Sports doubled the TV money.
This drop would be on the back of the already significant financial loss from no crowds because of Covid.

I have had no technical issues.
My concern, as it has always been is Sky Sports is very expensive, if you are not a Soccer fan
The impact on me would be:
BT - saving of £10 as I already have
Amazon - saving of £10 as I already have
Premier Sports retain - no difference
Sky - extra £20 a month

Cant see it being BT as it would not fit with their Premiership schedule.

I'm in the same boat Geoff, I got a great deal when I got Virgin Fibre installed and ended up getting BT and Sky sports included for less than I'd been paying Sky for basic family package without Sports. I only had Premier and as we'd swapped platforms, ended up getting a new customer deal with them of £5.99 a month so it's all rosy for me wherever the Pro16 goes. I've never had all the sports channels before so had always used streaming sites and apps so I can fully understand anyone's frustrations at seeing yet another paywall go up. If you want to watch all the rugby on offer you need to be on multiple platforms and it's a little much for a fair few people to be forking out.

Not sure any terrestrial channel can pay what the league will need to give them the rights. Plenty South Africans in these islands who are already paying to watch their teams so will be now paying to watch the league rather then Super Rugby.

I think Sky has no interest in any of the leagues as shown by the Premiership deal where they went to the open market and BT paid them less then when they were offered it. BT is now club rugby.

The bottom line is the Pro 14 teams are going to end up with less money which ever way this goes.

Those wishing good riddance to Premier Sports, may regret what they have wished for.
the CVC deal has become very important but that is at an international, not a club, level

Sports TV is expensive to produce and a deal to provide coverage of every Welsh, Scottish and Ulster match for a tenner a month was a good deal. It’s no surprise that Premier Sport dropped the costs of Sunset + Vine given COVID impacts.

There’s a strong rumour that Sky will get back on board for the PRO16 as it would open up the SA market for their advertisers. However, it remains to be seen whether EirSport, SuperSport and DAZN will want to continue for their respective markets. Given the unpopularity of the PRO 14 in Wales, it’s unlikely that moving it to Sky will generate more subscribers as this will be an additional cost package available from their platform.

Pot Hale wrote:Sports TV is expensive to produce and a deal to provide coverage of every Welsh, Scottish and Ulster match for a tenner a month was a good deal.   It’s no surprise that Premier Sport dropped the costs of Sunset + Vine given COVID impacts.  

There’s a strong rumour that Sky will get back on board for the PRO16 as it would open up the SA market for their advertisers.  However, it remains to be seen whether EirSport, SuperSport and DAZN will want to continue for their respective markets.  Given the unpopularity of the PRO 14 in Wales, it’s unlikely that moving it to Sky will generate more subscribers as this will be an additional cost package available from their platform.  

Considering most people in Wales have Sky Sports already because of the football, I would assume it would generate a bigger audience in Wales if it were to be on Sky.

Again with the hyperbole.

"Most" people in Wales is obviously not true. Sky have something like 15m subscribers in total, assuming Wales subscribes at the same rate as the rest of the UK, that would be ~40% of households.

Of those the majority will not have Sky Sports. Being generous, 20% of Welsh households have Sky Sports - certainly not enough for it to be the key decision making factor for any professional league

I’ll be interested to see what the price of a package is, as I’m not really interested in paying to watch all Sports and I probably wouldn’t want to pay more than what I pay for Premier.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens with people like Ross Harries etc, whether Sky will take them on.

Back to sky again would not be good. At least Premier sports cared about the league. Sky sports might not show all the matches. They've limited slots as soccer will always have priority. Sure Premier sports had their problems but for the most part it's turned out cheaper than sky.

Old Man wrote:I wonder how much Supersport is going to pay for the pro16 in SA

I'd imagine enough to cover costs and a small profit for all the teams and then see how it goes. The SA teams involvement will help the tv deals and potentially sponsorships for the current teams.

Cheapest deal today for a new customer signing up for Sky Sports is about £45 a month. As ever you can't just buy the rugby, or even just the sports channels.

I'd imagine they would use one of their other sports channels for it so clashing with football wouldn't be an issue, but it would only make it to the main event channel if nothing else was live

If SKY do get it, then it should be SKY only, not over multiple broadcasters.

BamBam wrote:Cheapest deal today for a new customer signing up for Sky Sports is about £45 a month. As ever you can't just buy the rugby, or even just the sports channels.

I'd imagine they would use one of their other sports channels for it so clashing with football wouldn't be an issue, but it would only make it to the main event channel if nothing else was live

Yup you're paying for soccer basically. If you don't watch soccer then its a mighty overcharge. Its a joke that its still like this in 2021. Thats mainly why I would prefer it to stay on Premier sports. The coverage might not be as good as sky but I just want to see a match.

It is actually very hard to work out exactly what you are paying for particular parts of the TV you watch, especially if you have a rolled up package.

I have a VM package that includes my TV package, phone, broadband and mobile. It is a big package and not that cheap but we actually get a lot for it. For instance I get an unlimited SIM for my phone, which I don't need in any shape or form, but if I was to buy as a stand alone would cost 40 quid a month. as part of the package it costs a fraction of that and hence not worth trading it down.

I have Sky and BT sports in the package and in truth I hardly watch the Sky these days as there is no rugby any more and I am not much of a football fan. I have looked at taking it out a few times but it will save me bugger all, so I have just hung onto it, same with Sky movies.

Stand alone prices don't always reflect the prices you do actually pay for stuff.

I would be quite happy if it came back to Sky and I could ditch PS, which does actually cost me an extra tenner a month (not that i think that is bad value), but the production is just rubbish and i am sure Sky would be better.

My only reservation about that is that they would not show all the games, though with red button and all that, it might be possible. Maybe we might have to get used to some monday night rugby as well, which I am not totally against.

What exactly is rubbish about PS's coverage? I don't watch the build up or half time talk of any match so maybe I'm missing something? genuinely curious.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:What exactly is rubbish about PS's coverage? I don't watch the build up or half time talk of any match so maybe I'm missing something? genuinely curious.

The build up and HT and FT analysis is part and parcel of watching a match on TV these days to be fair and with PS, it is of no great quality. A lot of the commentary is very poor as well, which I guess is a side effect of showing all the games. It is very one eyed and I don't single out any one nation in that regard, it is true across the board.

It was better last year with the highlights program and some general chat about the league, but it seems to have been cut to the bone this year and seems resigned that its time is up.

BigGee wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:What exactly is rubbish about PS's coverage? I don't watch the build up or half time talk of any match so maybe I'm missing something? genuinely curious.

The build up and HT and FT analysis is part and parcel of watching a match on TV these days to be fair and with PS, it is of no great quality. A lot of the commentary is very poor as well, which I guess is a side effect of showing all the games. It is very one eyed and I don't single out any one nation in that regard, it is true across the board.

It was better last year with the highlights program and some general chat about the league, but it seems to have been cut to the bone this year and seems resigned that its time is up.

Fair enough, I stopped looking at the build up and half time talk a long time ago and never looked back (that's for every rugby game no matter the channel), I can't stand listening to generic interviews and analysis. The commentary can be atrocious especially with Liam Toland but the new commentary team for our Friday game was exceptional imo.

Looks like it could be going to SKY sports:-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/sky-sports-emerge-front-runners-20149812

I do not know what this would mean to the other broadcasters though. Also, looks like BBC are making a big play for the rights as well.

The Rugby Paper article on it, is on this tweet.

https://twitter.com/jnphillips4/status/1371022293728645121?s=21

Fair play to Steffan Thomas. He’s a very good journalist, in my opinion.

I could not be happier.

That’s a great result. Be interesting to see how many games they commit to showing per round

If it goes to Sky I will subscribe

BUT

I suspect for many non football fans the cost will be deemed prohibitive.
Secondly given their football schedule a lot of games will not be shown live

For all the talk of Sky being mainstream and Premier Sports not (which is true) that will be
an reduce the of interest for many

I see Stephan Thomas alluding to the concerns of the viewing figures in Wales on Premiers Sports as well, something I have been saying on here for a long while now, as it cannot be good for the league.

geoff999rugby wrote:If it goes to Sky I will subscribe

BUT

I suspect for many non football fans the cost will be deemed prohibitive.
Secondly given their football schedule a lot of games will not be shown live

For all the talk of Sky being mainstream and Premier Sports not (which is true) that will be
an reduce the of interest for many

Sky sports have multiple channels, they will show plenty of live games, don't worry about that.

Also, what does this mean for EIR sport ?

LordDowlais wrote:I see Stephan Thomas alluding to the concerns of the viewing figures in Wales on Premiers Sports as well, something I have been saying on here for a long while now, as it cannot be good for the league.

You did say they wouldn’t get 1000 subscribers in Wales, so they’ve probably done better than your expectations. Plus the league is supposed to be dead by now.

You also said that the Welsh Premiership would steal a march on the Pro 14. I’m not convinced by that either.

Sky have 9 channels they use for live sport in the UK

401 Main Event - simulcasts whatever the biggest event is across any of the other channels, ie Premier League, majors golf, NFL etc
402 Premier League and 403 Football - Obviously dedicated to football
404 Cricket - you can probably see where this is going
405 Golf - see above
406 F1 - yep

Where it gets interesting is the next few
407 Sky Sports Action, 408 Sky Sports Arena, 416 Sky Sports Mix

At any given time, these can be dedicated to a certain sport - ie 407 was turned into Sky Sports NFL for the few months where the NFL season was live. If Sky decide they have enough rugby to show, they could make one of these Sky Sports Rugby for the duration of the season.

The issue will be when there are multiple kick offs at the same time, the red button is an option but no one ever likes having to use it to watch their team. I don't follow Pro rugby close enough to know whether its going to be a massive problem in the UK

LordDowlais wrote:I could not be happier.

LordDowlais - genuine question here. Not looking to start a war

I'm interested as to why you are so happy that Sky has got it when you were so unhappy that Premier Sports had it. Sky will show some games and as others have said the cost will be very high (e.g. £45 per month). Premier Sports was like £10 and showed every single game. Part of your argument was that the game will die due to lack of exposure (in Wales). With Sky there will be even less exposure, surely, due to fewer matches shown and potentially 4x the cost.

The Oracle wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I could not be happier.

LordDowlais - genuine question here.  Not looking to start a war

I'm interested as to why you are so happy that Sky has got it when you were so unhappy that Premier Sports had it.  Sky will show some games and as others have said the cost will be very high (e.g. £45 per month).  Premier Sports was like £10 and showed every single game.  Part of your argument was that the game will die due to lack of exposure (in Wales).  With Sky there will be even less exposure, surely, due to fewer matches shown and potentially 4x the cost.

The reason why is because SKY is a lot more mainstream. Lots of people in Wales will already have SKY Sports for the Premiership football, so there is already an audience to tap into. Also, the pubs and clubs now do not have to pay extra to show the rugby to general public, as they can use SKY sports.

The thing is, PS did not offer anything other than rugby, unless you like sports like ice hockey or Italian football, so the only people who would buy it, are fans. But now, people who have SKY sports for F1 or cricket or football are now going to be exposed to the Pro14/16. The potential audience is already bigger. The exposure will not be less, as you have put it, it will be a lot more.

It will also probably be shown a lot more on SKY sports news, and covered a lot more in the mainstream. SKY also have a free sports channel if you are a SKY subscriber, SKY sports mix, so they might even put the lesser games on that channel.

Also, if reports are to be beleived, a lot of the Welsh games will be shown on S4C, a lot more than there is currently.

The only worry is, how will this affect the Irish audience, as I cannot imagine SKY allowing EIR Sports to have the games.

LordDowlais wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I could not be happier.

LordDowlais - genuine question here.  Not looking to start a war

I'm interested as to why you are so happy that Sky has got it when you were so unhappy that Premier Sports had it.  Sky will show some games and as others have said the cost will be very high (e.g. £45 per month).  Premier Sports was like £10 and showed every single game.  Part of your argument was that the game will die due to lack of exposure (in Wales).  With Sky there will be even less exposure, surely, due to fewer matches shown and potentially 4x the cost.

The reason why is because SKY is a lot more mainstream. Lots of people in Wales will already have SKY Sports for the Premiership football, so there is already an audience to tap into. Also, the pubs and clubs now do not have to pay extra to show the rugby to general public, as they can use SKY sports.

The thing is, PS did not offer anything other than rugby, unless you like sports like ice hockey or Italian football, so the only people who would buy it, are fans. But now, people who have SKY sports for F1 or cricket or football are now going to be exposed to the Pro14/16. The potential audience is already bigger. The exposure will not be less, as you have put it, it will be a lot more.

It will also probably be shown a lot more on SKY sports news, and covered a lot more in the mainstream. SKY also have a free sports channel if you are a SKY subscriber, SKY sports mix, so they might even put the lesser games on that channel.

Also, if reports are to be beleived, a lot of the Welsh games will be shown on S4C, a lot more than there is currently.

The only worry is, how will this affect the Irish audience, as I cannot imagine SKY allowing EIR Sports to have the games.

Great if true re. the last bit. Depends how much S4C are willing to bid I guess. They won't get it for free.

I can see you point about currently Sky Sports Subscribers. But I guess I was talking about those without sky sports. The fear was always about putting club rugby behind a paywall in Wales. For those without it the jump may now be from a potential £10 to £45. That will not be possible for a lot of people. I don't have sky sports. Used to years ago. I very much doubt I'll pay £45 for Sky Sports to watch the Pro16. £10 is not much. £45 is, obviously, a lot more!

RiscaGame wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I see Stephan Thomas alluding to the concerns of the viewing figures in Wales on Premiers Sports as well, something I have been saying on here for a long while now, as it cannot be good for the league.

You did say they wouldn’t get 1000 subscribers in Wales, so they’ve probably done better than your expectations. Plus the league is supposed to be dead by now.

You also said that the Welsh Premiership would steal a march on the Pro 14. I’m not convinced by that either.

I do not know if this appropriate behaviour for a moderator, as it is obviously meant to antagonise. But never the less I will answer.

The league is not dead, but it is a far cry from what it was in Wales before it went to Premier Sports, even you must acknowledge that ?

I cannot get the viewing figures as Premier Sports were not open with that info, but I would wager that at the time, more people in Wales were watching the Premiership on BBC Wales than people in Wales were watching the Pro14 on Premier Sports. If reports are to be believed, there were about 10,000 subscribers to PS in Wales, I am sure I can remember someone posting the veiwing figures for the Premiership, and it was more than 10,000.

Why is the Irish side an issue? If Sky want the rights in Ireland they'll outbid EIR, if they don't want them enough then they'll probably stay on EIR

Sky could and probably would alter their lineup Bam and push the rugby if they were to bid and get it though. The French league was pretty prominent.

BamBam wrote:Why is the Irish side an issue? If Sky want the rights in Ireland they'll outbid EIR, if they don't want them enough then they'll probably stay on EIR

SKY have SKY sports in Ireland, they would not give up the games to EIR sports, although I could be wrong, and that is a worry, as I would not want the league to lose the exposure in Ireland.

Do you mean that Sky getting the rights in Ireland would be a negative for the league? If they want them, they’ll have to pay up!

LordDowlais wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I see Stephan Thomas alluding to the concerns of the viewing figures in Wales on Premiers Sports as well, something I have been saying on here for a long while now, as it cannot be good for the league.

You did say they wouldn’t get 1000 subscribers in Wales, so they’ve probably done better than your expectations. Plus the league is supposed to be dead by now.

You also said that the Welsh Premiership would steal a march on the Pro 14. I’m not convinced by that either.

I do not know if this appropriate behaviour for a moderator, as it is obviously meant to antagonise. But never the less I will answer.

Please either complain about my post or use the below feature. All I have done, is highlight your previous predictions, which are relevant to the quoted text.

https://www.606v2.com/f19-help-and-alert-a-moderator

BamBam wrote:Do you mean that Sky getting the rights in Ireland would be a negative for the league? If they want them, they’ll have to pay up!

My worry is, that the Irish fans will not pay for Sky Sports, thus it will get less exposure. If you are right though, and I hope you are, then EIR sports will still have them, but as they are a competitor of SKY will it happen ?

Also, why do I get the feeling that this is turning into a bit of a witch hunt here ?

I am just happy SKY sports look like they will be getting the rights, is that such a bad thing ?