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Forwards: Tadhg Beirne, Jack Conan, Luke Cowan Dickie, Tom Curry, Zander Fagerson, Taulupe Faletau, Tadhg Furlong, Jamie George, Iain Henderson, Jonny Hill, Maro Itoje, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Courtney Lawes, Ken Owens, Andrew Porter, Sam Simmonds, Rory Sutherland, Justin Tipuric, Mako Vunipola, Hamish Watson.

Backs: Josh Adams, Bundee Aki, Dan Biggar, Elliot Daly, Gareth Davies, Owen Farrell, Chris Harris, Robbie Henshaw, Stuart Hogg, Conor Murray, Ali Price, Louis Rees-Zammit, Finn Russell, Duhan van der Merwe, Anthony Watson, Liam Williams.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:'Stronger scrummaging lock' it's just a completely subjective thing.  You'd need a lab to work it out.  You can't just go on seeing one lock come on and the scrum improve and then say that a) it was all down to that one lock and not any of the other variables in a scrum, and b) that it means a lock from another team who was not even on the pitch is therefore a poorer scrumagging lock.  It's madness!

Adam Beard - best scrummaging lock in the B&I nations.  Fact.  Prove that I'm wrong!

It's fine if you want to discount it, some people wouldn't and the scrum will remain a focal point in SA I'd imagine.

Who said anything about discounting it? I'm saying it's not something you can gauge accurately from watching it on the TV, so posting on 606 that Itoje is the best scrummaging lock available is about as accurate/realistic as me saying Adam Beard is the best scrummging lock available.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:AWJ has always had this reputation of being a poor scrummaging lock, forever as I can remember. It's not something that's talked about as much these days I find, but I can certainly recall him being picked up on it by coaches etc.

You gotta back that sort of claim up, Sgt_Pooly!

flyhalffactory wrote:[
Contrast a week earlier, you saw a Welsh captain shorn of 5 possibly 6 first choice players (sent home injured) Anscombe/Liam Williams//Hill/Navidi, carrying injuries coming into the game Jon Davies/AWJ  or during the game Francis/North taken off, Biggar (shoulder) had to stay on due to reserve Patchell already taking a knock, sussing out not just the SA Plan A but also their Plan B, IMHO he was the MOTM and around the world columnists gave him a 9-9.5/10, not only a brilliant individual perform but one that highlighted his leadership qualities

The first rating I looked at was from Wales online and gave him a seven out of ten.

The Guardian- 7
The Sun- 8
The Independent- 7
Irish Mirror- 7

Some that i've found so far, not seeing any of these 9's you spoke of.

LordDowlais wrote:The way the Boks play, and their physical, niggly play, if we put Itoje as captain, we might as well right the tour off.

Boks may play with a lot of physicality, but niggly is inaccurate

Sgt_Pooly wrote:AWJ has always had this reputation of being a poor scrummaging lock, forever as I can remember. It's not something that's talked about as much these days I find, but I can certainly recall him being picked up on it by coaches etc.

This is the first I have heard of this, so you will have to enlighten me, can you find anything where this has been bandied about ?

I would love to see all these opinions regarding the subject. Please don't be shy.

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:'Stronger scrummaging lock' it's just a completely subjective thing.  You'd need a lab to work it out.  You can't just go on seeing one lock come on and the scrum improve and then say that a) it was all down to that one lock and not any of the other variables in a scrum, and b) that it means a lock from another team who was not even on the pitch is therefore a poorer scrumagging lock.  It's madness!

Adam Beard - best scrummaging lock in the B&I nations.  Fact.  Prove that I'm wrong!

It's fine if you want to discount it, some people wouldn't and the scrum will remain a focal point in SA I'd imagine.

Who said anything about discounting it?  I'm saying it's not something you can gauge accurately from watching it on the TV, so posting on 606 that Itoje is the best scrummaging lock available is about as accurate/realistic as me saying Adam Beard is the best scrummging lock available.

If you think so fair enough.

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The way the Boks play, and their physical, niggly play, if we put Itoje as captain, we might as well right the tour off.

Boks may play with a lot of physicality, but niggly is inaccurate

Unless they have changed as of late. I remember the likes of Bakkies Botha always winding players up and doing things to rile the opposition, and from what I have seen over the years I would think it still goes on.

But like I said, it could have changed as of late.

Soul Requiem wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:[
Contrast a week earlier, you saw a Welsh captain shorn of 5 possibly 6 first choice players (sent home injured) Anscombe/Liam Williams//Hill/Navidi, carrying injuries coming into the game Jon Davies/AWJ  or during the game Francis/North taken off, Biggar (shoulder) had to stay on due to reserve Patchell already taking a knock, sussing out not just the SA Plan A but also their Plan B, IMHO he was the MOTM and around the world columnists gave him a 9-9.5/10, not only a brilliant individual perform but one that highlighted his leadership qualities

The first rating I looked at was from Wales online and gave him a seven out of ten.

The Guardian- 7
The Sun- 8
The Independent- 7
Irish Mirror- 7

Some that i've found so far, not seeing any of these 9's you spoke of.

Try the looking at rugby reviews not english (papers) media columnists, the three 7s all came from the same source
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/wales-player-ratings-vs-south-africa-rwc-sf/

Soul Requiem wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Lee Mears and Phil Vickery were replaced by Matthew Rees and Adam Jones for that game. Someone who could hurt the Boks and someone who could scrummage. The 1st test starters didn't make the bench for the 2nd test.

Never understood the scrummaging lock thing, what are people seeing? I always assumed if a lock was too light we would struggle in the scrum. Can't see which lock is too lightweight - James Ryan according to the stats but he's very powerful.

So you're saying that your second row has no real impact come scrum time?

No I didn't say anything of the sort, I'm just re-iterating what Oracle already asked.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:[
Contrast a week earlier, you saw a Welsh captain shorn of 5 possibly 6 first choice players (sent home injured) Anscombe/Liam Williams//Hill/Navidi, carrying injuries coming into the game Jon Davies/AWJ  or during the game Francis/North taken off, Biggar (shoulder) had to stay on due to reserve Patchell already taking a knock, sussing out not just the SA Plan A but also their Plan B, IMHO he was the MOTM and around the world columnists gave him a 9-9.5/10, not only a brilliant individual perform but one that highlighted his leadership qualities

The first rating I looked at was from Wales online and gave him a seven out of ten.

The Guardian- 7
The Sun- 8
The Independent- 7
Irish Mirror- 7

Some that i've found so far, not seeing any of these 9's you spoke of.

Try the looking at rugby reviews not english (papers) media columnists, the three 7s all came from the same source
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/wales-player-ratings-vs-south-africa-rwc-sf/

Three different people are the same source?

Ahh yes i'll prioritise the view of a self described Wales rugby fan.

Soul Requiem wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:[
Contrast a week earlier, you saw a Welsh captain shorn of 5 possibly 6 first choice players (sent home injured) Anscombe/Liam Williams//Hill/Navidi, carrying injuries coming into the game Jon Davies/AWJ  or during the game Francis/North taken off, Biggar (shoulder) had to stay on due to reserve Patchell already taking a knock, sussing out not just the SA Plan A but also their Plan B, IMHO he was the MOTM and around the world columnists gave him a 9-9.5/10, not only a brilliant individual perform but one that highlighted his leadership qualities

The first rating I looked at was from Wales online and gave him a seven out of ten.

The Guardian- 7
The Sun- 8
The Independent- 7
Irish Mirror- 7

Some that i've found so far, not seeing any of these 9's you spoke of.

Try the looking at rugby reviews not english (papers) media columnists, the three 7s all came from the same source
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/wales-player-ratings-vs-south-africa-rwc-sf/

Three different people are the same source?

Ahh yes i'll prioritise the view of a self described Wales rugby fan.

Isn't flyhalffactory Scottish???

Sgt_Pooly wrote:AWJ has always had this reputation of being a poor scrummaging lock, forever as I can remember. It's not something that's talked about as much these days I find, but I can certainly recall him being picked up on it by coaches etc.

Alice, mad-hatter, and Sgt_Pooly!

Ill tell you what.

Lets not pick an OBE who has won numerous 6N, a couple of GS's, a couple of triple crowns, and has the most caps than anyone else in the entire world, who has gained massive respect all around the world from his peers, if not on here and has experience beyond everyone else at captaining his country and is the first player in the professional era to play in 9 consecutive tests for the Lions, who has also captained the Lions as well.

Lets instead pick a player, who does not captain his club, never mind his country, who rubs the officials up the wrong way because he is strong. Yep he is just the man for the job.

And whilst we are at it, lets read this:-

https://www.lionsrugby.com/players/alun-wyn-jones/#history

And in particular this bit:-

[b]Known for his power,[/b] athleticism and skill as a second row forward wrote:

But nah, lets go for Itoje.

Surely everyone agrees Phil Vickery didn't go from being an awful scrummager in the first test to being an awesome one by the third? It can't be as binary as Adam Jones came on and fixed everything

If we're using OBEs as part of the selection criteria, Keira Knightley is my choice for number 8

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:'Stronger scrummaging lock' it's just a completely subjective thing.  You'd need a lab to work it out.  You can't just go on seeing one lock come on and the scrum improve and then say that a) it was all down to that one lock and not any of the other variables in a scrum, and b) that it means a lock from another team who was not even on the pitch is therefore a poorer scrumagging lock.  It's madness!

Adam Beard - best scrummaging lock in the B&I nations.  Fact.  Prove that I'm wrong!

It's fine if you want to discount it, some people wouldn't and the scrum will remain a focal point in SA I'd imagine.

Who said anything about discounting it?  I'm saying it's not something you can gauge accurately from watching it on the TV, so posting on 606 that Itoje is the best scrummaging lock available is about as accurate/realistic as me saying Adam Beard is the best scrummging lock available.

If you think so fair enough.

Oracle you are spot on, I was a BSF so the mysteries of the engine were exactly that, however to pronounce "best scrummaging lock" is quite a sweeping hyperbole statement. 1 there are two locks who by the very physics do a different job in the scrum, so the very most one can say is the best THL or the best LHL, 2. depends on the scrum strategy i.e. is it locking/balancing/holding/defensive or is it an offensive scrum strategy.

I seem to remember Shaw replacing AWJ for the 2nd Lions test to great effect but what most fans didn't realise that it was complaint about the beast scrummaging technique that influenced a lot as well

BamBam wrote:If we're using OBEs as part of the selection criteria, Keira Knightley is my choice for number 8

Women can't play pro rugby with men, stoopid.

LordDowlais wrote:Ill tell you what.

Lets not pick an OBE who has won numerous 6N, a couple of GS's, a couple of triple crowns, and has the most caps than anyone else in the entire world, who has gained massive respect all around the world from his peers, if not on here and has experience beyond everyone else at captaining his country and is the first player in the professional era to play in 9 consecutive tests for the Lions, who has also captained the Lions as well.

Lets instead pick a player, who does not captain his club, never mind his country, who rubs the officials up the wrong way because he is strong. Yep he is just the man for the job.

And whilst we are at it, lets read this:-

https://www.lionsrugby.com/players/alun-wyn-jones/#history

And in particular this bit:-

[b]Known for his power,[/b] athleticism and skill as a second row forward wrote:

But nah, lets go for Itoje.

Lets just pick Curry as the captain. Take the weight off the old mans shoulders as Warburton says and let him concentrate on getting a place in the squad.

BamBam wrote:Surely everyone agrees Phil Vickery didn't go from being an awful scrummager in the first test to being an awesome one by the third? It can't be as binary as Adam Jones came on and fixed everything

Why not ?

flyhalffactory wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:'Stronger scrummaging lock' it's just a completely subjective thing.  You'd need a lab to work it out.  You can't just go on seeing one lock come on and the scrum improve and then say that a) it was all down to that one lock and not any of the other variables in a scrum, and b) that it means a lock from another team who was not even on the pitch is therefore a poorer scrumagging lock.  It's madness!

Adam Beard - best scrummaging lock in the B&I nations.  Fact.  Prove that I'm wrong!

It's fine if you want to discount it, some people wouldn't and the scrum will remain a focal point in SA I'd imagine.

Who said anything about discounting it?  I'm saying it's not something you can gauge accurately from watching it on the TV, so posting on 606 that Itoje is the best scrummaging lock available is about as accurate/realistic as me saying Adam Beard is the best scrummging lock available.

If you think so fair enough.

Oracle you are spot on, I was a BSF so the mysteries of the engine were exactly that, however to pronounce "best scrummaging lock" is quite a sweeping hyperbole statement. 1 there are two locks who by the very physics do a different job in the scrum, so the very most one can say is the best THL or the best LHL, 2. depends on the scrum strategy i.e. is it locking/balancing/holding/defensive or is it an offensive scrum strategy.

I seem to remember Shaw replacing AWJ for the 2nd Lions test to great effect but what most fans didn't realise that it was complaint about the beast scrummaging technique that influenced a lot as well

I think 7.5 has a special TV where he can see the power output of the locks coming through the TV as waves, or something. I'm off to browse Amazon for one myself.

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:Surely everyone agrees Phil Vickery didn't go from being an awful scrummager in the first test to being an awesome one by the third? It can't be as binary as Adam Jones came on and fixed everything

Why not ?

So RWC, 6N, Heineken Cup, Premiership winning tighthead Phil Vickery MBE went from being an awful scrummager on the 20 June 2009 to being an awesome scrummager by 4 July 2009 because Adam Jones fixed everything?

Also, surely even the most ardent Alun Wyn Jones fan does not think he is best known for his "athleticism"

The Oracle wrote:


Isn't flyhalffactory Scottish???

Rhiannon Garth Jones the writer of the article that was linked to is a Wales and Ospreys fan.

Soul Requiem wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:[
Contrast a week earlier, you saw a Welsh captain shorn of 5 possibly 6 first choice players (sent home injured) Anscombe/Liam Williams//Hill/Navidi, carrying injuries coming into the game Jon Davies/AWJ  or during the game Francis/North taken off, Biggar (shoulder) had to stay on due to reserve Patchell already taking a knock, sussing out not just the SA Plan A but also their Plan B, IMHO he was the MOTM and around the world columnists gave him a 9-9.5/10, not only a brilliant individual perform but one that highlighted his leadership qualities

The first rating I looked at was from Wales online and gave him a seven out of ten.

The Guardian- 7
The Sun- 8
The Independent- 7
Irish Mirror- 7

Some that i've found so far, not seeing any of these 9's you spoke of.

Try the looking at rugby reviews not english (papers) media columnists, the three 7s all came from the same source
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/wales-player-ratings-vs-south-africa-rwc-sf/

Three different people are the same source?

Ahh yes i'll prioritise the view of a self described Wales rugby fan.

It's well known media sources use others but carry on your quest

I'm a rugby fan first and foremost, I am 100% Scottish, but in this forum I am a Lions fan

Best take those rose-tinted specs off.......its a much clearer view with no tints......ok?

LordDowlais wrote:

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The way the Boks play, and their physical, niggly play, if we put Itoje as captain, we might as well right the tour off.

Boks may play with a lot of physicality, but niggly is inaccurate

Unless they have changed as of late. I remember the likes of Bakkies Botha always winding players up and doing things to rile the opposition, and from what I have seen over the years I would think it still goes on.

But like I said, it could have changed as of late.

Well Bakkies Botha hasn’t played for the Boks for around six years, looking at the “enforcers” in the squad, you would perhaps suggest Etzebeth, yet he is a very clean player, doesn’t take shyte from opposition players, but not the niggly kind.

flyhalffactory wrote:[

It's well known media sources use others but carry on your quest

I'm a rugby fan first and foremost, I am 100% Scottish, but in this forum I am a Lions fan

Best take those rose-tinted specs off.......its a much clearer view with no tints......ok?

I'm waiting for you to back up your claim, do go off on a tangent however if it makes you feel better.

Soul Requiem wrote:

The Oracle wrote:


Isn't flyhalffactory Scottish???

Rhiannon Garth Jones the writer of the article that was linked to is a Wales and Ospreys fan.

Strewth
She is quite a respected young writer......she's a Scarlets fan who lives between Burnley and the Europe
https://www.thesportsman.com/articles/new-look-wales-are-vulnerable-to-england-s-intelligent-six-nations-power-play......nice article bulling up England

But carry on digging, it's good exercise

Soul Requiem wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:[

It's well known media sources use others but carry on your quest

I'm a rugby fan first and foremost, I am 100% Scottish, but in this forum I am a Lions fan

Best take those rose-tinted specs off.......its a much clearer view with no tints......ok?

I'm waiting for you to back up your claim, do go off on a tangent however if it makes you feel better.

What claim?

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:Surely everyone agrees Phil Vickery didn't go from being an awful scrummager in the first test to being an awesome one by the third? It can't be as binary as Adam Jones came on and fixed everything

Why not ?

So RWC, 6N, Heineken Cup, Premiership winning tighthead Phil Vickery MBE went from being an awful scrummager on the 20 June 2009 to being an awesome scrummager by 4 July 2009 because Adam Jones fixed everything?

Also, surely even the most ardent Alun Wyn Jones fan does not think he is best known for his "athleticism"

Only in your and 7.5's head.

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The way the Boks play, and their physical, niggly play, if we put Itoje as captain, we might as well right the tour off.

Boks may play with a lot of physicality, but niggly is inaccurate

Unless they have changed as of late. I remember the likes of Bakkies Botha always winding players up and doing things to rile the opposition, and from what I have seen over the years I would think it still goes on.

But like I said, it could have changed as of late.

Well Bakkies Botha hasn’t played for the Boks for around six years, looking at the “enforcers” in the squad, you would perhaps suggest Etzebeth, yet he is a very clean player, doesn’t take shyte from opposition players, but not the niggly kind.

who is that ginger front rower you have, he is a pretty good player, but I remember watching him against Wales, and he was arguing with everyone.

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:Surely everyone agrees Phil Vickery didn't go from being an awful scrummager in the first test to being an awesome one by the third? It can't be as binary as Adam Jones came on and fixed everything

Why not ?

So RWC, 6N, Heineken Cup, Premiership winning tighthead Phil Vickery MBE went from being an awful scrummager on the 20 June 2009 to being an awesome scrummager by 4 July 2009 because Adam Jones fixed everything?

Also, surely even the most ardent Alun Wyn Jones fan does not think he is best known for his "athleticism"

Only in your and 7.5's head.

That doesn’t even make sense

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:Surely everyone agrees Phil Vickery didn't go from being an awful scrummager in the first test to being an awesome one by the third? It can't be as binary as Adam Jones came on and fixed everything

Why not ?

So RWC, 6N, Heineken Cup, Premiership winning tighthead Phil Vickery MBE went from being an awful scrummager on the 20 June 2009 to being an awesome scrummager by 4 July 2009 because Adam Jones fixed everything?

Also, surely even the most ardent Alun Wyn Jones fan does not think he is best known for his "athleticism"

Only in your and 7.5's head.

To be clear I've never said that Vickery was an awful scrummager and that Adam Jones fixed everything.

LordDowlais wrote:

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The way the Boks play, and their physical, niggly play, if we put Itoje as captain, we might as well right the tour off.

Boks may play with a lot of physicality, but niggly is inaccurate

Unless they have changed as of late. I remember the likes of Bakkies Botha always winding players up and doing things to rile the opposition, and from what I have seen over the years I would think it still goes on.

But like I said, it could have changed as of late.

Well Bakkies Botha hasn’t played for the Boks for around six years, looking at the “enforcers” in the squad, you would perhaps suggest Etzebeth, yet he is a very clean player, doesn’t take shyte from opposition players, but not the niggly kind.

who is that ginger front rower you have, he is a pretty good player, but I remember watching him against Wales, and he was arguing with everyone.

Steven Kitshoff.

Kitshoff is a great player. Like most front rows can get firey!

Wonder if the Lions coaches are going to approach the series with a view to use the 6 2 bench split as England experimented with post WC seemingly in response to the final. Not a huge fan of it as for me its too risky re cover for injuries in the backs.

It's funny that a player who is always first to every breakdown, and is always up there for tackles made per game is not regarded for his athleticism

mikey_dragon wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The way the Boks play, and their physical, niggly play, if we put Itoje as captain, we might as well right the tour off.

Boks may play with a lot of physicality, but niggly is inaccurate

Unless they have changed as of late. I remember the likes of Bakkies Botha always winding players up and doing things to rile the opposition, and from what I have seen over the years I would think it still goes on.

But like I said, it could have changed as of late.

Well Bakkies Botha hasn’t played for the Boks for around six years, looking at the “enforcers” in the squad, you would perhaps suggest Etzebeth, yet he is a very clean player, doesn’t take shyte from opposition players, but not the niggly kind.

who is that ginger front rower you have, he is a pretty good player, but I remember watching him against Wales, and he was arguing with everyone.

Steven Kitshoff.

He's a cracking player.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Kitshoff is a great player. Like most front rows can get firey!

Wonder if the Lions coaches are going to approach the series with a view to use the 6 2 bench split as England experimented with post WC seemingly in response to the final. Not a huge fan of it as for me its too risky re cover for injuries in the backs.

It's a waste of time when Itoje invariably plays 80 minutes of every game without issue.

LordDowlais wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The way the Boks play, and their physical, niggly play, if we put Itoje as captain, we might as well right the tour off.

Boks may play with a lot of physicality, but niggly is inaccurate

Unless they have changed as of late. I remember the likes of Bakkies Botha always winding players up and doing things to rile the opposition, and from what I have seen over the years I would think it still goes on.

But like I said, it could have changed as of late.

Well Bakkies Botha hasn’t played for the Boks for around six years, looking at the “enforcers” in the squad, you would perhaps suggest Etzebeth, yet he is a very clean player, doesn’t take shyte from opposition players, but not the niggly kind.

who is that ginger front rower you have, he is a pretty good player, but I remember watching him against Wales, and he was arguing with everyone.

Steven Kitshoff.

He's a cracking player.

I was listening to the Rugby Podcast of Jim Hamilton, they were chatting to Etzebeth, asking him whether it was true that he could bench 175 kg, he said in the past but not anymore, they then asked him who are the strong men of the Boks. He said now that Beast retired it is Kitshoff.

You sure Kitshoff isn’t Irish?!

Are we sure AWJ scrummaged behind Vickery?

https://www.sportsfile.com/id/361234/

It seems strange that we have to go back 12 years to label AWJ as a weak scrummager. I wouldn't even blame Vickery for the issues. It was more likely a combination of things. A small hooker like Mears didn't help. Matthew Rees also made as big an impact as Shaw, yet it is being purely pinned on AWJ for some reason.

The Oracle wrote:You sure Kitshoff isn’t Irish?!

Too late now mate, you should have asked when he was 18

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lets just pick Curry as the captain. Take the weight off the old mans shoulders as Warburton says and let him concentrate on getting a place in the squad.

Warburton also said that Biggar should start at 10. I take it you agree with that as well ?

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lets just pick Curry as the captain. Take the weight off the old mans shoulders as Warburton says and let him concentrate on getting a place in the squad.

Warburton also said that Biggar should start at 10. I take it you agree with that as well ?

Nope.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lets just pick Curry as the captain. Take the weight off the old mans shoulders as Warburton says and let him concentrate on getting a place in the squad.

Warburton also said that Biggar should start at 10. I take it you agree with that as well ?

Nope.

Ah, so only what Warburton says that suits you we should take into account then. Thanks for clarifying that.

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lets just pick Curry as the captain. Take the weight off the old mans shoulders as Warburton says and let him concentrate on getting a place in the squad.

Warburton also said that Biggar should start at 10. I take it you agree with that as well ?

Nope.

Ah, so only what Warburton says that suits you we should take into account then. Thanks for clarifying that.

Yup, only when I agree. I'm funny like that! I do like Sam as an analyst though but at the moment its a movable feast of course. I've said I think there are only 3 certainties for the starting lineups and for me I'm likely to change my mind in the run up. Same for Sam of course who was wanting Sexton and not Biggar not so long ago.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/sam-warburton-names-seven-wales-20349850

It's all column filler for a while, but enjoyable nonetheless.

It's 2017 all over again, we got the AWJ-haters out in full force! It's now 2021 and not an ounce of his world classness is dented .

mikey_dragon wrote:It's 2017 all over again, we got the AWJ-haters out in full force! It's now 2021 and not an ounce of his world classness is dented .

Indeed, hes still not world class! There's some movement though, LD wants him in this time.

If AWJ isnt world class I dont know who is. The guy has been consistently brilliant for many years. The consistency he has showed over the years is staggering. He has played something like 15 years for Wales and this will be his 4th Lions tour if selected. Some guy, I applaud him and reckon he is one of the greatest six nations players. 157 international caps and still going strong.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:It's 2017 all over again, we got the AWJ-haters out in full force! It's now 2021 and not an ounce of his world classness is dented .

Indeed, hes still not world class! There's some movement though, LD wants him in this time.

I wanted him in every other time as well.

RiscaGame wrote:Are we sure AWJ scrummaged behind Vickery?

https://www.sportsfile.com/id/361234/

It seems strange that we have to go back 12 years to label AWJ as a weak scrummager. I wouldn't even blame Vickery for the issues. It was more likely a combination of things. A small hooker like Mears didn't help. Matthew Rees also made as big an impact as Shaw, yet it is being purely pinned on AWJ for some reason.

Risca mate

Much has been made of AWJ who was 23 in that first test but Lee Mears hooking was diabolical, he should have realised that Mtawarira was standing at an angle to come in illegally "around the side", Vickery was unfairly blamed and I believe Geech had a "word in the ear" before the 2nd test. Shaw did really well but Matthew Rees should take a lot of credit.

AWJ "reputation" as a poor scrummager continued from that single game, I can't recall no other game that he was called up on

Collapse2005 wrote:If AWJ isnt world class I dont know who is. The guy has been consistently brilliant for many years. The consistency he has showed over the years is staggering. He has played something like 15 years for Wales and this will be his 4th Lions tour if selected. Some guy, I applaud him and reckon he is one of the greatest six nations players.

Comes down to definitions as much as anything. I generally go with top 3 in the world in your position. He's not there for me, but he will of course be there for others. Longevity doesn't come into it for me.