A Current Pound for Pound Top 10 List - What Does this Say about Boxing in 2021?

A few near misses / the chasing pack: Artur Beterbiev, both Jermall and Jermell Charlo, Gervonta Davis, Juan Francisco Estrada (possibly an unpopular omission, but I don't quite rate him as highly as most others), Gennady Golovkin, Kazuto Ioka, Anthony Joshua etc.

1a) Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez (disgusted with myself for having to put him there)
1b) Terence Crawford
1c) Naoya Inoue
4) Errol Spence
5) Oleksandr Usyk
6) Tyson Fury
7) Josh Taylor
8) Teofimo Lopez
9) Vasyl Lomachenko
10) Oscar Valdez

Straight off the bat you'll see I've bitched out haven't selected an outright number one - this is because I honestly feel that nobody really deserves to be called the pound for pound king at the moment, and I've never felt that way until these past couple of years or so.

It's not that I don't consider Crawford and Inoue to be superb fighters - they are. The problem is that, relative to what you'd normally expect from a pound for pound number one, they are unproven fighters. It's a clear case of their records not yet matching their talents.

With Canelo, you get the complete opposite. All those titles in all those weight classes, and all those big names on there. If it was simply a case of who has the best looking résumé, then Canelo blows all other contenders out of the water (aside from Pacquiao, of course, but he's not part of these kind of discussions these days). Yet I can't ever remember any other supposed number one looking so consistently average against his best opposition and needing so much judging help to get past them. Look at him in the two Golovkin fights - this is supposed to be the best fighter in the world!? He's also caught a few of those names at opportune moments. Based on talent and ability, to me it's always been blindingly obvious that Canelo is not one of the elite fighters in our sport - yet his record on paper demands that he be considered as such. He's a good fighter, and in this day and age one of an ever-shrinking group who features in anything even approaching 'mega fight' status, but it's a black mark against the sport that he currently has a claim to be its finest exponent.

Go back ten years, and you could argue until you were blue in the face about whether it was Mayweather or Pacquiao who deserved to be top of the tree - but whichever way you went, you'd have to concede that they were both more than deserving and had removed all doubts about their awesome pedigree. Go back another ten years and you could say the same about Jones, Hopkins, Trinidad or even a younger Mayweather. All these guys had records or real signature wins which piddle all over those of today's top three.

But today, it's arguably easier to find reasons not to rate these guys as pound for pound king rather than to do so. We're in a bizarre situation in which we're actually unsure just how special our consensus top three even are, or in which they've sometimes only needed to beat a couple of really good names (admittedly sometimes done in style) to get right up the list. Very few on that list above can combine a mixture of great talent which easily passes the eye test with a series of impressive names and notable wins on their record - most of them veer heavily to one side or the other in a way which I'm sure has ever happened before.

Who do you all take as your pound for pound number one right now? Overall thoughts on the list? And what do you make of my observations about the state of the sport in general these days?

It's not a particularly inspiring list is it Chris?

Go back ten years for instance and the year end top five were without any shadow of doubt worthy of their lofty status. Five of the top ten I had a genuine interest in watching too, often staying up til the early hours to watch their fights live. Martinez for instance doesn't have the longevity or overall resume of either Alvarez or Golovkin but I personally found him exciting to watch, his beating of Pavlik and that knockout of Williams are genuine stand out performances. It's a shame his knee gave out and he ended with the ignominy of losing to Cotto someone he'd had blitzed a couple of years earlier.

Much like you i'm loathe to heap praise on a doper but Alvarez is good to watch and has the resume to back it up, I just can't get past the failed drugs test. Crawford, Spence, Usyk and Lomachenko are all good fighters but I find them so dull to watch, give me Shane Mosley (drugs I know) in his pomp with that vicious streak any day or Donaire with those flashy feet and fists.

Not sure I would have Usyk anywhere near the top 10 myself, Chris. His last fights in the past 18 months have been the distinctly average Dereck Chisora and the utterly uninspiring Chazz Witherspoon - neither of which get anywhere near the top 10 in their own division. Yes, he's had some significant success in the first Cruiserweight WBSS, but since then, diddly squat. I'd be looking to replace him with either of the Charlo twins.

There are not many mouthwatering fights out there being made besides Taylor-Ramirez. It's all about promoters protecting their cash cows. Even Fury vs Joshua appears to be Chaos vs Product Placement. Alvarez is great at fighting everyone but for me it all comes with that asterisk that he's been done for cheating in the past - same goes for Fury and there's that question mark over Pacquiao's rise from Fly to Welter.

As Soul says there isn't much to get excited about. Who beats Alvarez? Probably nobody for a few years. Will Crawford and Spence Jr fight? Not if their promoters have anything to do with it. Will Fury - Joshua get made in the UK? Of course not - it'll be somewhere in the Middle East where only well-off fans and celebrities can afford to go. Long gone are the days of ITV's The Big Fight Live - it's all Pay Per View nonsense these days and if you don't have a Sky Box forget about watching anything legally unless you're in the pub. Which you can't be for a bit because of someone eating a dodgy bat.

I do love watching a good fight, but the chances of becoming a casual fan these days are not particularly likely. Give me the 90s. When I could have a few pints and watch Lewis, Holyfield, Eubank, Benn and Hamed picking up another belt.

Yeah, I know you're a great fan of Donaire same as me, Soul. As if to illustrate my point, though he was very highly rated Donaire was never a contender to be pound for pound number one outright during his peak between 2007 and 2012. But for me, if he'd have put that run together in these last five years instead he'd be number one by an absolute mile now.

Your point about Martinez and his late career blossoming, and particularly that really bold statement he made by stiffing Williams like that, kind of explains why I felt Oscar Valdez needed to be included here (and I think he can go further up the list in the future). In a time where Crawford can stay in the pound for pound race despite fighting next-to nobody at Welter, and where Canelo can do the same despite almost always making hard work of his better opponents, Valdez's win against Berchelt a couple of months back just stood out as something so pleasantly different and exciting against a relatively mundane boxing backdrop recently.

I honestly thought it was one of the most wonderful all-round performances I've seen in years at that kind of level. Eerily similar to Mayweather's glorious performance against Corrales in a lot of ways, except that the ending was even more brutal. A knockout of the year to accompany what will surely be the performance of the year. And as we're talking pound for pound, I have to reference that Berchelt (who was the betting favourite) was six pounds heavier on the night, two inches taller and had five inches in reach on Valdez. He was considered by many to be the best or most proven at Super-Feather and had been knocking almost everyone out for a while. Yet Valdez absolutely embarrassed him.

Haven't seen anything quite like it for a while and it was a timely treat as well. He's a two-weight titlist now and though I appreciate that his WBO run at Featherweight wasn't awash with big names, aside from Fury against Wilder last year nobody else on that list has really produced anything as special or meaningful as what Valdez did there in quite a long time. Incredible to think that this was the same guy who didn't get particularly great reviews against Quigg a few years back. He ditched his trainer afterwards and hooked up with Eddy Reynoso, and it's definitely worked. Looks like the most improved fighter in the sport over the past couple of years (I was also very impressed with his performance against Velez).

Mr Bounce wrote:Not sure I would have Usyk anywhere near the top 10 myself, Chris. His last fights in the past 18 months have been the distinctly average Dereck Chisora and the utterly uninspiring Chazz Witherspoon - neither of which get anywhere near the top 10 in their own division. Yes, he's had some significant success in the first Cruiserweight WBSS, but since then, diddly squat. I'd be looking to replace him with either of the Charlo twins.

There are not many mouthwatering fights out there being made besides Taylor-Ramirez. It's all about promoters protecting their cash cows. Even Fury vs Joshua appears to be Chaos vs Product Placement. Alvarez is great at fighting everyone but for me it all comes with that asterisk that he's been done for cheating in the past - same goes for Fury and there's that question mark over Pacquiao's rise from Fly to Welter.

As Soul says there isn't much to get excited about. Who beats Alvarez? Probably nobody for a few years. Will Crawford and Spence Jr fight? Not if their promoters have anything to do with it. Will Fury - Joshua get made in the UK? Of course not - it'll be somewhere in the Middle East where only well-off fans and celebrities can afford to go. Long gone are the days of ITV's The Big Fight Live - it's all Pay Per View nonsense these days and if you don't have a Sky Box forget about watching anything legally unless you're in the pub. Which you can't be for a bit because of someone eating a dodgy bat.

I do love watching a good fight, but the chances of becoming a casual fan these days are not particularly likely. Give me the 90s. When I could have a few pints and watch Lewis, Holyfield, Eubank, Benn and Hamed picking up another belt.

Thanks for dropping in, Mr Bounce.

Oddly enough, when I first started drawing up this list I was originally going to include no Heavyweights, largely because I had no idea what to do with Usyk. Obviously a fighter's achievements at a lower weight don't suddenly become irrelevant once they move up, but it's always a little different going from Cruiser to Heavy. This isn't some jump up of 5 of 7 pounds to go and fight guys who often fought at those lower weights in the past themselves - this is almost like a new sport. He is of course still a man with plenty of questions to answer at Heavy. Yet with so many fighters being inactive due to C19, and most of the top guys only fighting a couple of times a year at the best of times, his Cruiserweight exploits still feel recent enough to take into consideration, along with his obvious great talent and level of performance when at his best. In the end I decided to include him and Fury but as you can see, it wasn't with any great conviction. Yet another symptom of how messed up the pound for pound picture is right now.

For what it's worth, Jermell would probably have been the guy I'd put in had Usyk missed out. Though the sheer numbers might say otherwise, I rate Jermell as the best of the Charlo brothers. Has a better claim to divisional supremacy (let's be honest, it's the only claim as of right now) and I thought he was very unlucky to lose the verdict in the first Harrison fight. But he more than set the record straight in the rematch and his performance there, totally different from first time out, impressed me more than anything Jermall has produced thus far.

The only Valdez fight i've seen was against Quigg where I wasn't massively impressed by him, will give the Berchelt fight a watch later on. Speaking of Berchelt I really enjoyed watching one of his previous opponents in Takashi Miura and also Uchiyama, the pair seemed on a collision course for a rematch before unexpectedly losing, a lot of oneupmanship in their knockouts around 12/13.

Yep, he looks like a totally different fighter now, Soul. Has become a real ring general. After dominating early there was one round (think it was the 7th) where he just looked like he was needing a breather and I thought that maybe this is where Berchelt might start forcing his way into the fight a little. Not a bit of it.

I will say as one positive that Josh Taylor is as good as any boxer these shores have produced in the past ten years, not quite at the level of Calzaghe but in time could overtake Froch and threaten the all time top ten if he carries on winning. I'd certainly have him above Fury who has been fairly inactive whilst his premier win was against someone I don't rate at all, Wilder has a punch but no boxing ability whatsoever.

Spence seems a bit too high for my liking but can't say who i'd have above him, was getting comprehensively outboxed by Brook early on before the weight cutting started to have an impact. Worth saying that it was always odd that Brook went down the IBF route when they're the only organisation with official rehydration weight checks, that in itself proved pivotal in the fight, were it a WBC title fight I think he wins. He's got some good wins beyond that; Porter continues to stretch everyone he faces while Danny Garcia is a solid contender, Algieri and Peterson are decent wins too particularly the manner of them. Mikey Garcia was however too small.

Well if Taylor beats Ramirez to rubber-stamp his dominance at Light-Welter in a few weeks I'd be tempted to put him inside the top three here, Soul. Why not? Crawford got elevated into the top three after unifying all the belts in that weight class in 2017, and it's a better division now than it was then. Crawford's best wins at 140 were Postol who has been beaten by both Taylor and Ramirez, and Indongo who got absolutely obliterated by Prograis, who subsequently lost to Taylor. I know Crawford has achievements and titles either side of 140 as well, and passes the eye test a bit easier than Taylor, but still food for thought.

This will be Taylor's first real test since switching trainers though, which is a slight concern. It's a shame something couldn't have been worked out to retain Shane McGuigan's services in his corner after he left Cyclone for Top Rank, but I guess that was never going to happen. I was quite impressed with McGuigan's advice in the Baranchyk fight where he really seemed to read the fight to a tee and gave Taylor the perfect advice needed after some difficult early rounds. We'll see how he gets on with Ben Davidson but it's just troubling me slightly.

Yeah, ideally I wouldn't have Spence quite that high either, but to be fair to him not many others have fought as many ranked or respectable divisional rivals as he has in the last few years, and Welterweight isn't a bad division at all right now. Obviously Crawford is the big exception but I'm past the point of caring whose fault that is for not happening. Crawford's the better fighter for me but there's no doubt that Spence's record at 147 knocks Crawford's out of the park.

Sadly, with PBC announcing that they'll no longer be recognising the WBO as a legitimate world title, I don't see Crawford-Spence happening any time soon. Even if they got past the initial barrier of Top Rank versus PBC / Haymon they'd probably want or expect Crawford to relinquish his title to make it happen and go in purely as a challenger. Not sure the egos will allow that, especially as this could affect Crawford's pay or share of the purse for all we know.

Always think Heavyweights get a rough deal in P4P lists...Tyson never got higher than 4th.....Stuck behind Chavez and others...

Wlad...Wilder twice and a win over a still interested Chisora for the British puts him in my Top 3..

Crawford's record doesn't compare to Alvarez and talent doesn't hold up to a better record..Josh Kelly's win over Prograis compares with Curry vs McCrory and other unifications..also think handing the irritating Brit who insulted Liverpool fans (forgot his name) his first defeat is an underrated win...

Spence not sure about....Had Brook beating him handily before the eye trouble...Lomo higher than Lopez until he wins a rematch too...Some people thought Maidana beat Mayweather and one win doesn't sully Lomo's amazing record.

Usyk dominated Cruiser but anyone half decent has always done that.

Golovkin top 10 also..Sure his star is waning but controversial defeat aside an aging Hagler stayed in the top spot post Curry v Honey and his crap Mugabi performance....Inoue looks class..Valdez will go higher with time..

1. Alvarez
2. Crawford
3. Fury
4. Inoue
5.Usyk
6 Kelly
7. Spence
8. Lomochenko
9. GGG
10. Lopez

Just a fleeting visit hope everyone is well...Good to see life in the section again..

Stay good in these hard times.

I find Lomachenko and his record an interesting one; does he have an amazing record or does he have an amazing record for someone with 16 fights?

I'm inclined to think it's the latter myself; Russell Jr and Linares are his best wins and fine wins they are too but beyond that it's not a great list of names with a lot of filler in there. At the present time it's enough to get him into the top ten but he's never been the actual man in any weight class, fleeting visits via the path of least resistance at times.

Hey Truss. Good to see you dropping in.

I wondered if Golovkin might potentially be worth a place at something like #10, but decided against it in the end. He clearly beat Canelo first time out, and certainly didn't deserve to lose second either for me (though it was closer), but they were a few fights ago and he's started to look his age since. To be honest I think that process had already begun before the Canelo fights.

People raved about those contests but I thought they were pretty average and yet another case of so-called super fights not really living up to the hype. Neither guy looked all that in them. Canelo looked like he could barely fight half a round at a time in the first one (possibly over-trained or struggling with weight, I don't know), and Golovkin was strangely cautious in the second. Though he was the better fighter Golovkin's famed power never really looked like it could move Canelo at all.

Derevyanchenko fought him to a draw on my card and the Charlo fight afterwards showed Derevyanchenko's level. Obviously Golovkin's got a better career record than a couple of guys who made my list, but as of right now I don't see him as one of the best in the business.

@Soul, yeah I don't think there's any doubt that the hype around Lomachenko before and upon him turning pro has probably caused a few to overrate his record thus far. It's natural I suppose. There's no doubt he's fought a fantastic amount of good names or decent titlists relative to the small number of fights he's had - but there's no real exceptional win there. Then again, how many fighters these days have any exceptional wins. I think he could win a Lopez rematch as he had the better of the second half of the fight and seemed a bit off-colour early, though I could be underselling Lopez there.

Lomachenko definitely looked a bit more vulnerable at 135 even before Lopez, though, so I wouldn't be totally surprised if he was considering going back to Super-Feather. Whatever he does (moves back down, stays put at Lightweight or even has a dip at Light-Welter which he's talked about) Top Rank have some decent fights possible for him like a Lopez rematch, Valdez at 130, the winner of Taylor-Ramirez if he goes really ambitious and moves up again etc.

Golovkin was showing signs of ageing in the Brook fight, was uncharacteristically easy to hit in those opening rounds and did seem to be momentarily stunned in the second round I believe it was, a lot was made of him having no respect for the power but in hindsight seems like an excuse. There's also the issue that he fought in his comfort zone for far too long fighting let's be honest here B list middleweights up until Danny Jacobs where he did look less than brilliant against an opponent who could move.

As an aside how would Golovkin and Martinez rank as middleweight greats, the consensus would probably have GGG higher but I liked what Sergio did in a short space of time; would have to say his win over Pavlik is the only real stellar win either has.

Golovkin decisively for me, Soul. Just a much deeper overall record at 160. Doesn't have that crowning moment of officially beating the man who beat the man etc. as Martinez had with Pavlik, but that's largely because successive top dogs at Middleweight swerved GGG. He's probably slipped off that pedestal now, but given the nature of the Caleno verdicts, the state of Martinez after his knees really started giving out and also the fact that Cotto in between was really just a bit of a make-believe Middleweight champion, it's probably not a stretch to say that Golovkin was the best Middleweight in the world for a solid five years or so.

Would have loved to have seen the fight though. I think had it happened 2010-11 Martinez would have had a decent chance as his body hasn't yet started breaking down and he was full of confidence. Golovkin was having an almighty struggle with Ouma around the same time, albeit Ouma has next-to nothing in common with Martinez in terms of style. 2012 might have been a tipping point. After that I think Martinez would have had no chance, and in fact would have been demolished had he defended against Golovkin in 2013-14.

Just remembered as I write this that Martinez has actually come back recently. Hope he hasn't blown his money but can never help but fear that's the case when these kind of returns happen.

That's probably a fair assessment of things, do think that Martinez was the better boxer in a pound for pound sense. He always looked like a light middleweight fighting at Middleweight whereas Golovkin is a fully fledged middleweight. It's a real shame he was 35 when he beat Pavlik, think he could have had a substantial reign if his early career was managed better. I always forget he lost Margarito the best part of 20 years ago.