South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July

by **George Carlin** Sat 17 Jul 2021, 8:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July - Page 5 A_10

South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July - Page 5 Lions_10

SOUTH AFRICA v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
Saturday 24 July
KO: 18:00 SAST / 17:00 UK / 20:00 Dubai Very Happy

Cape Town Stadium (Newlands), Cape Town
Sky Sports Main Event

Referee: Nic Berry (Australia)
Assistant Referees: Ben O’Keeffe, Mathieu Raynal
TMO: Marius Bloody Jonker of all people

TEAMS:

SOUTH AFRICA:
15 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 62 caps, 60 pts (12t)
14 – Cheslin Kolbe (Toulouse) – 14 caps, 40 pts (8t)
13 – Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks) – 15 caps, 15 pts (3t)
12 – Damian de Allende (Munster) – 47 caps, 30 pts (6t)
11 – Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks) – 14 caps, 70 pts (14t)
10 – Handré Pollard (vice-captain – Montpellier) – 49 caps, 465pts (6t, 78c, 89p, 4d)
09 – Faf de Klerk (Sale Sharks) – 30 caps, 20 pts (4t)

08 – Kwagga Smith (Yamaha Júbilo) – 7 caps, 5 pts (1t)
07 – Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Stormers) – 56 caps, 25 pts (5t)
06 – Siya Kolisi (captain – Cell C Sharks) – 51 caps, 30 pts (6t)
05 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 40 caps, 5pts (1t)
04 – Eben Etzebeth (Toulon) – 86 caps, 15 pts (3t)
03 – Trevor Nyakane (Vodacom Bulls) – 43 caps, 5 pts (1t)
02 – Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Stormers) – 37 caps, 40 pts (8t)
01 – Ox Nché (Cell C Sharks) – 2 caps, 0 pts

16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 34 caps, 30 pts (6t)
17 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 48 caps, 5pts (1t)
18 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 39 caps, 5pts (1t)
19 – Lood de Jager (Sale Sharks) – 45 caps, 25 pts (5t)
20 – Rynhardt Elstadt (Toulouse) – 2 caps, 0 pts
21 – Herschel Jantjies (DHL Stormers) – 11 caps, 25 pts (5t)
22 – Elton Jantjies (Pau) – 38 caps, 283 pts (2t, 63c, 49p)
23 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 7 caps, 5pts (1t)

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS:
15. Stuart Hogg (Exeter, Scotland) #783
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816
13. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
09. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843

01. Rory Sutherland (Worcester, Scotland) #840
02. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter, England) #851
03. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
04. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825
05. Alun Wyn Jones (C) (Ospreys, Wales) #761
06. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826
07. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853
08. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

16. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
18. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814
19. Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
20. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847
21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, England) #780
23. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833

PREVIEW:

by **BigGee** Tue 20 Jul 2021, 4:52 pm

If the Lions doing media stuff this week, are the ones to be in the test team, which is often the case. Then it would look like AWJ, Biggar and Hogg are all going to be in!

by sensisball Tue 20 Jul 2021, 4:52 pm

With the small man's Sam Simmonds, in the form of Wagga Smith starting at 8 for the Boks, this has to be a massive advantage to the Lions. Weighing in at more than 20 kg lighter than the injured Vermeulen means no rampaging charges from the back of scrums from our back row or 9 to contend with. On the other hand his pace off the scrum could prove a handful for the less than electric Connor Murray, if he is starting. Price and Davies would be better suited to stopping the smallest Boks no 8 in living memory. On wiki he is listed at less than 15 stone. When was the last time an 8 weighing less than 15 stone represented any of the home countries?
Maybe Eddie Butler, in 1980?

by **BigGee** Tue 20 Jul 2021, 5:30 pm

The Times are suggesting a pretty leftfield selection:

AWJ is captain and starts

Hogg, VDM and Price all start

LCD and Conan and Daly all in as well.

The big miss outs are Adams, Farrell, Faletau

Unfortunately i can't see the whole article as it is behind a paywall and I have already used my two free ones for the week!

by **BigGee** Tue 20 Jul 2021, 5:34 pm

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-irish-lions-ali-price-picked-at-scrum-half-with-elliot-daly-at-13-but-no-starting-place-for-owen-farrell-ngcwgd7kn

For anyone with a subscription!

Farrell missing out should not really be a massive surprise and Faletau has been a little bit short of his best, but Adams will feel pretty unlucky, if this is accurate.

by **RiscaGame** Tue 20 Jul 2021, 5:37 pm

The side they have is

Hogg, Watson, Daly, Henshaw, VDM, Biggar, Price

Jones, Cowan-Dickie, Furlong, AWJ, Itoje, Lawes, Curry, Conan

Reps

Owens, Sutherland, Sinckler, Beirne, Watson, Henderson, Murray, Farrell.

by doctor_grey Tue 20 Jul 2021, 5:41 pm

I can't see the article either. If this is true, and no reason to think it's not, no surprise about AWJ, LCD, Hogg, Price. A little surprised about VDM over Adams, but thought both have had a very good tour so far. I still think Daly would be a better option off the bench but he had a good tour too. Would like to see the rest of the picks, or do we have to wait for the great reveal tomorrow?

by **BigGee** Tue 20 Jul 2021, 5:42 pm

RiscaGame wrote:The side they have is

Hogg, Watson, Daly, Henshaw, VDM, Biggar, Price

Jones, Cowan-Dickie, Furlong, AWJ, Itoje, Lawes, Curry, Conan

Reps

Owens, Sutherland, Sinckler, Beirne, Watson, Henderson, Murray, Farrell.

If that is the case, there are some very deserving candidates missing out, but it still is a very good looking team. I think Farrell is pretty lucky to be there personally, but with henshaw maybe not 100% fit yet and Russell out injured, I guess I can see why. especially with a 6/2 bench.

by BamBam Tue 20 Jul 2021, 5:44 pm

Puts a hell of a lot on Curry at the breakdown that does

by **BigGee** Tue 20 Jul 2021, 5:46 pm

BamBam wrote:Puts a hell of a lot on Curry at the breakdown that does

But you then have Beirne and Watson coming on against a tiring SA pack later on. they could be deadly.

by BamBam Tue 20 Jul 2021, 5:48 pm

The Times wrote:Alun Wyn Jones will captain a British & Irish Lions team primed to attack South Africa at pace in the first Test on Saturday, after Warren Gatland picked Ali Price at scrum half, Elliot Daly at outside centre and Stuart Hogg at full back.

Gatland, the head coach, will announce his Test squad tomorrow but the players were told the team before this afternoon’s training session at the squad’s base an hour from Cape Town.

The Times understands that Luke Cowan-Dickie’s form has been rewarded with a start at hooker, Jack Conan has been preferred to Taulupe Faletau at No 8 and Duhan Van Der Merwe is a surprise choice on the wing ahead of Josh Adams.

While the onus in the starting XV is on pace and dynamism, the Lions have a power-packed bench with six forwards and two controlling half backs in Conor Murray and Owen Farrell.

Murray was appointed tour captain while Jones was in Wales recuperating from a dislocated shoulder, sustained in the victory over Japan at Murrayfield, on the basis that he was seen then as a likely Test starter.

The Ireland scrum half handed the captaincy back to Jones when the Wales lock returned to the tour last week and he has now been edged out of the starting Test XV.

Price, who whose tempo and quick decisions helped the Lions play a fast-paced game in their victory over the Stormers last Saturday, will forge a half-back partnership with Dan Biggar.

Robbie Henshaw and Daly, who started together against the Stormers last weekend, will continue their budding midfield partnership in the first Test.

Daly played wing for the Lions in their drawn series with New Zealand in 2017 and his only Test start at outside centre for England came against South Africa in 2016.

However, Gatland selected Daly specifically as an outside centre for this tour and he has made five appearances, starting three times in the No 13 jersey. He will bring pace to the Lions midfield, smart distribution in the wider channels and a left-footed kicking option.

Henshaw’s tour, in contrast, has been interrupted by injury and his first appearance on South African soil came against the Stormers but he did enough in 58 minutes to convince Gatland he was ready.

The Lions report that Liam Williams is fit for selection, having passed his head injury protocols, but Hogg has been preferred at full back with Anthony Watson to win his fourth Lions Test cap on one wing and Van Der Merwe, the Scotland and former South Africa Under 20 wing, to bring power to the back three.

Up front, Cowan-Dickie’s combative, accurate, aggressive performance against the Stormers last weekend appears to have earned him the starting Test berth. Ken Owens is believed to be on the bench, with Jamie George missing out.

Wyn Jones and Tadhg Furlong are set to start the game, with Rory Sutherland and Kyle Sinckler primed to come on and match the Springboks’ heavy duty bench. South Africa have opted to keep back Malcolm Marx, Steven Kitshoff and Frans Malherbe for a second half power injection.

Alun Wyn Jones and Maro Itoje will form the second row, with Conan flanked in the back row by Tom Curry and Courtney Lawes, in recognition that the lineout promises to be a fierce battleground.

The Lions’ 6-2 bench includes Tadgh Beirne, Hamish Watson and Iain Henderson, which means no room for Faletau, the starting No8 in New Zealand four years ago.

by TJ Tue 20 Jul 2021, 5:49 pm

Thats a pretty good team and close to what i would have gone for. Nothing too controversial but Adams will feel hard done by with Watson getting a place on the wing. gone for bulk in the back row

by Cyril Tue 20 Jul 2021, 5:54 pm

With that side you would think the lions are looking to build a decent lead as there’s not a huge amount off the bench to up the ante.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 20 Jul 2021, 6:01 pm

I'm not a fan of Lawes at flanker, too slow. I'd agree it's a big ask for Curry. South Africa will be looking at that Daly VDM area and coming up with some plans I'm sure.

by Cyril Tue 20 Jul 2021, 6:05 pm

Do the Lions leak these squad selections to the likes of The Times or is that obvious for journos over there watching training sessions?

by flyhalffactory Tue 20 Jul 2021, 6:14 pm

Crikey if that is the starting 15, then we better find a way to grind it out PDQ.

The SA BR has speed all over it, Kwagga Smith makes Simmonds look like the hulk but he also makes him look like a snail, he's quicker than most wingers. He's going to hitting the blindside channel all day long with Kolisi shielding against Lawes, if Du Toit is fit and on form then I am fearful for Biggar.

Kwagga is probably quicker than any of the Lions 15 including Hogg, could be interesting.

You read it hear, the breakdown is going to be the key

by **BigGee** Tue 20 Jul 2021, 6:21 pm

Cyril wrote:Do the Lions leak these squad selections to the likes of The Times or is that obvious for journos over there watching training sessions?

Journalists always have their sources in the camp. The teams pretty much always leak out to someone. I don't think the coaches are that bothered about it as long as they get to tell the players first. It gives all the othyer media outlets the time to get all their 'how proud i am to be a Lion' articles in place for the next few days.

by Cyril Tue 20 Jul 2021, 6:28 pm

Flyfactory, re. Smith we heard this constantly about Spies though and he had a highlight reel, but never a great

by Cyril Tue 20 Jul 2021, 6:31 pm

Yeah, we see it all the time, Gee. Some papers know the England side down to every bench player. Guess it’s better to ‘officially’ leak ahead of time once your side is settled.

by Old Man Tue 20 Jul 2021, 6:34 pm

Cyril wrote:Flyfactory, re. Smith we heard this constantly about Spies though and he had a highlight reel, but never a great

Spies should have been a 12, he was never a great 8

by flyhalffactory Tue 20 Jul 2021, 6:35 pm

Cyril wrote:Flyfactory, re. Smith we heard this constantly about Spies though and he had a highlight reel, but never a great

Well it was a surprise him being selected at 8 I admit but perfect if the SA engine can take control as a unit, then the SA flankers if on form and match fit, he only needs space and he is very quick.

I don't know enough about Smith so I'll bow your your greater experience of watching him

by Cyril Tue 20 Jul 2021, 6:38 pm

You’ve not seen Pierre Spies, Fly? Incredibly quick for an 8/flanker.

by Cyril Tue 20 Jul 2021, 6:47 pm

Old man, re. Spies didn’t he end up with a medical condition (blood clots?) that curtailed his career. Would have been interesting an centre. Much like people say about Simmonds.

by Old Man Tue 20 Jul 2021, 6:54 pm

Cyril wrote:Old man, re. Spies didn’t he end up with a medical condition (blood clots?) that curtailed his career. Would have been interesting an centre. Much like people say about Simmonds.

Pierre Spies was actually a wing in age grade rugby, he even played wing for the Sa U19. I have no idea why he started playing at number 8. Yes he was diagnosed with blood clots just before the RWc in 2007, went for a second opinion, and rhen a third, he missed the 2007 and I think 2008 season before returning to the Springboks in 2009.

by TJ Tue 20 Jul 2021, 7:15 pm

Aye - but he is no Ritchie Vernon Very Happy

( played for scotland both at flanker and at centre)

by Pot Hale Tue 20 Jul 2021, 7:28 pm

Absolute disgrace the way Conor Murray has been treated.

by TJ Tue 20 Jul 2021, 7:32 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Absolute disgrace the way Conor Murray has been treated.

In what way?

by Pot Hale Tue 20 Jul 2021, 7:39 pm

TJ wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Absolute disgrace the way Conor Murray has been treated.

In what way?

Being asked to take over as tour captain. Then being publicly discusssed as not in the first options to be considered but since others couldn’t be picked, he was the next best. And then once the Messiah was deemed to be fit again to rejoin the tour being publicly bounced into accepting that Jones would become tour captain again.
What else could he say?

I’ve no problem if he’s only selected for bench to be clear.

The Lions website still has him nominated as tour captain but at this point it just looks risible.

by TJ Tue 20 Jul 2021, 7:52 pm

Fair enough.

by Soul Requiem Tue 20 Jul 2021, 7:54 pm

BigGee wrote:
BamBam wrote:Puts a hell of a lot on Curry at the breakdown that does

But you then have Beirne and Watson coming on against a tiring SA pack later on. they could be deadly.

If they're not under pressure they won't be the ones tiring.

by TightHEAD Tue 20 Jul 2021, 8:08 pm

The Lions 1st Test, Leaked team.

Hogg
Watson
Daly
Henshaw
VDM
Bigger
Price
Conan
Curry
Lawes
AWJ
Itoje
Furlong
Cowan Dickie
Jones

Owen, Sutherland, Sinckler, Bernie, H.Watson, Henderson, Murray, Farrell

by Poorfour Tue 20 Jul 2021, 8:11 pm

6-2 bench and Farrell are deeply uninspiring

by TightHEAD Tue 20 Jul 2021, 8:13 pm

This is Garland after all.

by Duty281 Tue 20 Jul 2021, 8:15 pm

South Africa to win the series 3-0, I reckon, with one hammering in those three tests. One 'controversial' red to happen via TMO intervention as well.

by TightHEAD Tue 20 Jul 2021, 8:19 pm

No chance of a Red, the standard for the series has been set by The SA 'A headbutts.

by TJ Tue 20 Jul 2021, 8:22 pm

yes - if you need someone to come on and change the game Farrell is surely the man Shocked

by Cyril Tue 20 Jul 2021, 8:37 pm

Could be worse. Russell could have come on and lose it. Like O’Gara but a whole lot worse.

by Old Man Tue 20 Jul 2021, 8:40 pm

TightHEAD wrote:No chance of a Red, the standard for the series has been set by The SA 'A headbutts.

Oh stop whining.

by flyhalffactory Tue 20 Jul 2021, 9:12 pm

Cyril wrote:You’ve not seen Pierre Spies, Fly? Incredibly quick for an 8/flanker.

No I haven't seen enough of Smith to give a valid opinion but reading up on him, he is rapid

by flyhalffactory Tue 20 Jul 2021, 9:15 pm

TJ wrote:yes - if you need someone to come on and change the game Farrell is surely the man

Okay I'm wetting myself now! Laugh

by Cyril Tue 20 Jul 2021, 9:55 pm

You guys need to get a room.

by TightHEAD Tue 20 Jul 2021, 9:57 pm

Old Man wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:No chance of a Red, the standard for the series has been set by The SA 'A headbutts.

Oh stop whining.

Player welfare is a huge topic, hard to keep kids playing rugby when parents see former players with brain injuries bringing lawsuits against World Rugby & unions.

Some people have different priorities I guess?

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Jul 2021, 10:13 pm

Cyril wrote:You guys need to get a room.

Don’t be jel.

by BigTrevsbigmac Tue 20 Jul 2021, 10:24 pm

TightHEAD wrote:The Lions 1st Test, Leaked team.

Hogg
Watson
Daly
Henshaw
VDM
Bigger
Price
Conan
Curry
Lawes
AWJ
Itoje
Furlong
Cowan Dickie
Jones

Owen, Sutherland, Sinckler, Bernie, H.Watson, Henderson, Murray, Farrell

Not far off my choice though I would have George on the bench & dare I say Smith for Farrell

by Old Man Tue 20 Jul 2021, 10:25 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
Old Man wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:No chance of a Red, the standard for the series has been set by The SA 'A headbutts.

Oh stop whining.

Player welfare is a huge topic, hard to keep kids playing rugby when parents see former players with brain injuries bringing lawsuits against World Rugby & unions.

Some people have different priorities I guess?

We all have player welfare as a priority, however due to the fact that everyone’s perception is biased your continuous whining doesn’t achieve anything other than the perception you create of being biased.

As Rassie reminded Gatland during the week, he should also do an enquiry into whether the shoulder hits of Farrell is legal.

You see for every incident where you feel injustice was done there is an incident that is swept under the carpet by another team, in this case one of the Lions.

The incident is over harping on about it is becoming a bit desperate, don’t you think?

by Old Man Tue 20 Jul 2021, 10:30 pm

Just to add, there is a big difference between a headbutt and a head knock.

A headbutt is the deliberate action to hit the opposing player with the hard part of your skull to a vulnerable, most often nose or jaw area.

A headknock can be due to reckless tackles, which again could be direct and deliberate, indirect and accidental.

by Cyril Tue 20 Jul 2021, 10:34 pm

It does seem a bit rich that any South African would ever be interested in player safety given the history of their players.

by Old Man Tue 20 Jul 2021, 11:01 pm

Cyril wrote:It does seem a bit rich that any South African would ever be interested in player safety given the history of their players.

And there you go , perpetuating a perception which by all accounts is simply byllsshyte.

Go on youtube and look at what is available on rugby thugs, red cards, dirty play and you will find as many “thugs” from other countries.

How many can you name that were SA bullies?

by TightHEAD Tue 20 Jul 2021, 11:15 pm

I would have put my mortgage on SA playing dirty Vs the Lions, but I don't have a mortgage anymore, paid that off in my thirties.

by Old Man Tue 20 Jul 2021, 11:17 pm

Well, then, put up your savings Wink

by TJ Tue 20 Jul 2021, 11:18 pm

and I would have put my mortgage on Farrell shoulder charging someone.

What is this about headbutts? I have only seen it referred to on here nowhere else.

any evidence?

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