South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July

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SOUTH AFRICA v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
Saturday 24 July
KO: 18:00 SAST / 17:00 UK / 20:00 Dubai  
Cape Town Stadium (Newlands), Cape Town
Sky Sports Main Event

Referee: Nic Berry (Australia)
Assistant Referees: Ben O’Keeffe, Mathieu Raynal
TMO: Marius Bloody Jonker of all people

TEAMS:

SOUTH AFRICA:
15 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 62 caps, 60 pts (12t)
14 – Cheslin Kolbe (Toulouse) – 14 caps, 40 pts (8t)
13 – Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks) – 15 caps, 15 pts (3t)
12 – Damian de Allende (Munster) – 47 caps, 30 pts (6t)
11 – Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks) – 14 caps, 70 pts (14t)
10 – Handré Pollard (vice-captain – Montpellier) – 49 caps, 465pts (6t, 78c, 89p, 4d)
09 – Faf de Klerk (Sale Sharks) – 30 caps, 20 pts (4t)

08 – Kwagga Smith (Yamaha Júbilo) – 7 caps, 5 pts (1t)
07 – Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Stormers) – 56 caps, 25 pts (5t)
06 – Siya Kolisi (captain – Cell C Sharks) – 51 caps, 30 pts (6t)
05 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 40 caps, 5pts (1t)
04 – Eben Etzebeth (Toulon) – 86 caps, 15 pts (3t)
03 – Trevor Nyakane (Vodacom Bulls) – 43 caps, 5 pts (1t)
02 – Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Stormers) – 37 caps, 40 pts (8t)
01 – Ox Nché (Cell C Sharks) – 2 caps, 0 pts

16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 34 caps, 30 pts (6t)
17 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 48 caps, 5pts (1t)
18 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 39 caps, 5pts (1t)
19 – Lood de Jager (Sale Sharks) – 45 caps, 25 pts (5t)
20 – Rynhardt Elstadt (Toulouse) – 2 caps, 0 pts
21 – Herschel Jantjies (DHL Stormers) – 11 caps, 25 pts (5t)
22 – Elton Jantjies (Pau) – 38 caps, 283 pts (2t, 63c, 49p)
23 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 7 caps, 5pts (1t)

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS:
15. Stuart Hogg (Exeter, Scotland) #783
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816
13. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
09. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843

01. Rory Sutherland (Worcester, Scotland) #840
02. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter, England) #851
03. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
04. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825
05. Alun Wyn Jones (C) (Ospreys, Wales) #761
06. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826
07. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853
08. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

16. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
18. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814
19. Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
20. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847
21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, England) #780
23. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833

PREVIEW:

IMO SA are no more dirtty than any other team. I mean we had Ryan Wilson playing for us recently.

According to Tighthead Faf headbutted.

Old Man wrote:According to Tighthead Faf headbutted.

Well it was a crap headbutt then. Normally forehead to bridge of nose for a headbutt not back of head into elbow then chin. In the former yo come off best, in the latter you come off distinctly second best.

TJ wrote:

Old Man wrote:According to Tighthead Faf headbutted.

Well it was a crap headbutt then.  Normally forehead to bridge of nose for a headbutt not back of head into elbow then chin.  In the former yo come off best, in the latter you come off distinctly second best.

Oh don’t let common sense spoil a good story here. You are spoiling a good whine then.

TJ wrote:Fair enough.  

Fair enough means you agree or disagree?

Starting XV: S Hogg (Sco), A Watson (Eng), E Daly (Eng), R Henshaw (Ire), D van der Merwe (Sco), D Biggar (Wal), A Price (Sco); W Jones (Wal), L Cowan-Dickie (Eng), T Furlong (Ire), A W Jones (capt, Wal), M Itoje (Eng), C Lawes (Eng), T Curry (Eng), J Conan (Ire)

Replacements: K Owens (Wal), R Sutherland (Sco), K Sinckler (Eng), T Beirne (Ire), H Watson (Sco), I Henderson (Ire), C Murray (Ire), O Farrell (Eng).

Telegraph's view on the leaked lineup is that Gatland has gone with form, by which they mean LCD, Conan, Price and Daly. The unluckiest players were probably always going to be the exluded back three players, and hooker. Most pundits who predicted Lawes to start, based that on his hard tackling, and the experience of the South Africa 'A' match.

If that is the team I can get on board. Whatever team that is picked there will always be people having issues with it. Personally I would have started Beirne and Watson but that's my preference. I'm very much looking forward to them coming on at 50 minutes and going full throttle. There is a lot of impact from the bench generally in the forwads.

As for Murray and Farrell on the bench - very much meh. Plenty experience in closing out the game but if we're behind they're not the players you want coming on.

RDW wrote:If that is the team I can get on board. Whatever team that is picked there will always be people having issues with it. Personally I would have started Beirne and Watson but that's my preference. I'm very much looking forward to them coming on at 50 minutes and going full throttle. There is a lot of impact from the bench generally in the forwards.

As for Murray and Farrell on the bench - very much meh. Plenty experience in closing out the game but if we're behind they're not the players you want coming on.

You pretty much hit my thoughts exactly: What kind of impact from the bench do we want? Are we thinking we might be chasing the game or locking it down? Murray and Farrell are exclusively lock it down types at this stage, as you point out. Farrell is likely cover for Henshaw in case he can't go a full 80 at this point yet. But he can't cover any other position except 10, and it would take half the Royal Horse Artillery to get Biggar off the pitch. And if Farrell goes in at 12, then the attack slows further. I probably would have started Hamish Watson, but I also like the idea of him coming on at 50-60 minutes and causing havoc everywhere.

Farrell is an obvious bench choice, especially on a 6-2 split. Hogg has barely had time to train at full back, let alone fly half, so isn't a realistic back-up. If we are chasing the game, then dual playmakers would change things up. If we get our kicking game working, then we could get better territory.

I love the way the Telegraphy keeps exhaustively saying "expected" and "poised to be selected".

I can just see their copy editor shouting "well, what if the bloody Times is wrong?" at them every 2 hours or so.

Rugby Fan wrote:Farrell is an obvious bench choice, especially on a 6-2 split. Hogg has barely had time to train at full back, let alone fly half, so isn't a realistic back-up. If we are chasing the game, then dual playmakers would change things up. If we get our kicking game working, then we could get better territory.

Agree completely. We need to choose what we want. Gats wants experienced game closers on the bench, even if he needs to sacrifice some dynamism and impact. Farrell and Murray are definitely experienced closers and Farrell has made 100 pressure goal kicks in his career.

As Spike Milligan said: "A man can't have everything. Where would he put it?"

With a 6 2 bench Farrell had to be in the team or on the bench. Hoping the leak is wrong though. We saw how badly that can go in the England USA game.

I also don't like the look of the bench alongside that team. 5 locks in a matchday 23 is ridiculous, especially as a player like Itoje certainly has the engine to go 80 minutes.

I would have also gone with Harris at 13, Daly benching. The other tight selections look like purely going for the bigger guy. Lawes, Conan and VDM over Beirne, Faletau and Adams look to be trying to match SA power, but lack more in other areas. I'll happily be proved wrong if it works!

10 am today until it's confirmed.

TightHEAD wrote:I would have put my mortgage on SA playing dirty Vs the Lions, but I don't have a mortgage anymore, paid that off in my thirties.

Awe well done you.

How about you putting your house on it then?

Pot Hale wrote:

TJ wrote:Fair enough.  

Fair enough means you agree or disagree?

It means I understand your point which I didn't before you explained it. I hadn't thought enough about it to really have an opinion but you make a good point.

Harris at 13, Daly benching.

I agree - purely for the versatility and to allow an attacking substitution. Lions have no one to come on and change the game in an attacking way - unless the mish comes on as a centre :-) ( joke)

Rugby Fan wrote:Farrell is an obvious bench choice, especially on a 6-2 split. Hogg has barely had time to train at full back, let alone fly half, so isn't a realistic back-up. If we are chasing the game, then dual playmakers would change things up. If we get our kicking game working, then we could get better territory.

Hogg would very much be an emergency replacement at 10. he can do it but its not a something any sensible coach would plan for. However Farrell is so limited and out of form is he better? I sort of see the logic in Farrell on the bench in that with Daly and watson in the side then Farrell coming on to replace any of the backs gives cover everywhere as folk can shuffle round. smith would have been the high risk replacement but with a 6:2 bench there is no room for a specialist bar SH.

Its just if we need someone to come on to shake the game up and to provide something different then is Farrell really your man?

I would prefer a 5:3 bench so something like Murray, smith, Adams as backs subs

Farrell to me doesn’t look like he is enjoying his rugby.

On AWJ's injury, Simon Shaw says he had a similar injury during one Six Nations, and was back playing within three weeks. That gives me more confidence that the Lions captain isn't going on the pitch as damaged goods. There's no doubt he'll be feeling his shoulder but, if Shaw's experience is any guide, not to the extent it will limit his performance.

MY concern with AWJ is not so much him playing - but the risk of further damage and what that will do in the rest of his life.

I think it's natural to see the negatives in players you rather not be in the team as opposed to your "preferred choice"(so I'm going to try to be objective) but I am intrigued to see almost a reversal in playing strategy from both camps from what I thought would be the case.
SA knew they were out on their feet come 55 mins onwards (might have to take into account they had 13 men) but they also knew even with not even playing much as a team since the WC and isolated for 6 days they still had the better half and were 17-3 up, they also commentated that "combos needed to be improved and they were a bit rusty". So you would have thought they would have brought in the heavy-weights in but it seems that they have gone for quick, nimble BF with almost the bomb squad on the bench but with a definite emphasis on 3 backs who are quick nimble game changers.
I get the feeling that Gats is confident that we have the definite edge in fitness especially in the engine room and BR, selecting 5 locks with 4 of them "hybrids" is an absolute crazy idea and rugby suicide at the very most we should have had 4 (very much like SA). The BR has no definitive speed and direct running and the backs without Harris world class defence and direct running is helluva worry.
But the worry is, how easy it was for SA A at the breakdown, how they turned itoje and Curry each over twice. I can definitely see AWJ on for 50 mins to try to stem that
I don't prescribe to the theory that Murray or Farrell are closers and they definitely are not game-changers and if the world class Lood de Jager is injury free and Rynhardt Elstadt who was awesome this year for Toulouse then Henderson or Beirne are not going to have it easy coming off the bench.
I really think the only game-changer we have got is DvdM, I can only think Sanjay is injured and they only player I would bet my bag of chips on to score a try is Josh Adams.
If we are losing come 45 mins then we have no one on our bench that can inspire change in the game, where SA have a world class front 5 on the bench including one brilliant lock/flanker hybrid who are able to close and 3 back that can change momentum and the game

‘...I’m going to try to be objective...’

Goes on to say how more Scottish players should in the team (including WORLD CLASS Harris).

Flyhalf - its almost as if both coaches have double bluffed the other - so SA are going with a team more like we expected from the lions - and Lions more like SA.

Rugby Fan wrote:On AWJ's injury, Simon Shaw says he had a similar injury during one Six Nations, and was back playing within three weeks. That gives me more confidence that the Lions captain isn't going on the pitch as damaged goods. There's no doubt he'll be feeling his shoulder but, if Shaw's experience is any guide, not to the extent it will limit his performance.

We've had some lengthy discussions on this including our resident doc, my missus is "in the trade" (albeit messing around with hearts with sharp implements) and does a bit with the SRU, as she said with the medical advances it's not inconceivable to get back even local club players within 3 weeks but if AWJ is as fit as they say then she surprised but not shocked that he was back. As she said it really depended on the seriousness of the "dislocation" and looking at AWJ initially she didn't think it was total dislocation.

As you said Shaw was back playing on and full on all match, he hasn't had any long term effects

it's all speculation at this point, AWJ is a bright articulate guy and first and foremost a husband/father, I'm sure will not risk his long term health for the sake of one tour

Leaked team almost right then, 5 3 bench no henderson and Williams in so 1 less negative.

Cyril wrote: ‘...I’m going to try to be objective...’

Goes on to say how more Scottish players should in the team (including WORLD CLASS Harris).

If you are going to "quote" me then say the truth fella I didn't capitalise anything and I said world class defence, my opinion which is endorsed by many in the rugby community

"without Harris world class defence and direct running is helluva worry"

There you go something else for you to downvote now

TJ wrote:Flyhalf - its almost as if both coaches have double bluffed the other - so SA are going with a team more like we expected from the lions - and Lions more like SA.

Compadre I think you are spot on

SOUTH AFRICA v THE BRITISH & IRISH LIONS

15. Stuart Hogg (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland) #783

14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816

13. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822

12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824

11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841

10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821

9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843

1. Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales) #842

2. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851

3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818

4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825

5. Alun Wyn Jones – captain (Ospreys, Wales) #761

6. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826

7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853

8.Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

Replacements:

16. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829

17. Rory Sutherland (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #840

18. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814

19. Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838

20. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847

21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790

22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, England) #780

23. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833

Saturday 24 July 2021

Cape Town Stadium, Cape Town

Kick-off: 5pm (BST)

Good to Liam Williams on bench too.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Leaked team almost right then, 5 3 bench no henderson and Williams in so 1 less negative.

Wonder if that’s a late change (enforced). Feel for Henderson otherwise, to have known he wasn’t selected and to have a leak suggest he was.

Given the rest is spot on, possibly a change of heart after seeing SA's bench?

Good team I guess. Some players I didn't expect.

The Lions have a serious leak.

SA spies everywhere.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Leaked team almost right then, 5 3 bench no henderson and Williams in so 1 less negative.

I like Hendo and he has had a great tour but it makes a bit more sense now

What's happened to Adams?

I did think it was funny in the leaked team that Henderson was named after Watson when normally a lock is named after the props.

Happy to see Liam Williams on the bench though would have preferred to see him start.

TightHEAD wrote:What's happened to Adams?

No idea, guess we will find out at the press conference.

TightHEAD wrote:What's happened to Adams?

Just the unlucky one - someone was going to be unlucky in the back 3 Gatlands gone for Duhans power and ability to do crash ball off the 9 over Adams good form

Oakdene wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:What's happened to Adams?

No idea, guess we will find out at the press conference.

Probably sneaked home to see his newborn.

flyhalffactory wrote:I think it's natural to see the negatives in players you rather not be in the team as opposed to your "preferred choice"(so I'm going to try to be objective) but I am intrigued to see almost a reversal in playing strategy from both camps from what I thought would be the case.
SA knew they were out on their feet come 55 mins onwards (might have to take into account they had 13 men) but they also knew even with not even playing much as a team since the WC and isolated for 6 days they still had the better half and were 17-3 up, they also commentated that "combos needed to be improved and they were a bit rusty". So you would have thought they would have brought in the heavy-weights in but it seems that they have gone for quick, nimble BF with almost the bomb squad on the bench but with a definite emphasis on 3 backs who are quick nimble game changers.
I get the feeling that Gats is confident that we have the definite edge in fitness especially in the engine room and BR, selecting 5 locks with 4 of them "hybrids" is an absolute crazy idea and rugby suicide at the very most we should have had 4 (very much like SA). The BR has no definitive speed and direct running and the backs without Harris world class defence and direct running is helluva worry.
But the worry is, how easy it was for SA A at the breakdown, how they turned itoje and Curry each over twice. I can definitely see AWJ on for 50 mins to try to stem that
I don't prescribe to the theory that Murray or Farrell are closers and they definitely are not game-changers and if the world class Lood de Jager is injury free and Rynhardt Elstadt who was awesome this year for Toulouse then Henderson or Beirne are not going to have it easy coming off the bench.
I really think the only game-changer we have got is DvdM, I can only think Sanjay is injured and they only player I would bet my bag of chips on to score a try is Josh Adams.
If we are losing come 45 mins then we have no one on our bench that can inspire change in the game, where SA have a world class front 5 on the bench including one brilliant lock/flanker hybrid who are able to close and 3 back that can change momentum and the game

I think Jacques Nienaber was forced into some of the selections.

No Beast, no Snyman, no Francois Louw and no Duane Vermeulen.

That is some serious beast mode not available. Hence he cannot really have a 6/2 split as there isn’t really anyone available to fill that sixth spot on the bench.

Kwagga Smith, Siya Kolisi and Pieter Steph du Toit inherently changes the dynamics for the Bok row, it loses much of the brutal physicality that Vermeulen and Louw (as a sub) would bring. So he has gone for a more mobile pack.

Even his three backline subs, instead of frans Steyn who might be experienced but is really slow now, he has added Damian Willemse who is more suitable as he is mobile, agile, has a decent boot, but can spot and exploit space much better than Frans would.

I would hve preferred Reinach at nine due to his physicality, yet Nienaber has gone for the player who knows the Bok system better, and is a better box kicker, Herschel Jantjies I don’t think has the pace of Reinach, but has shown situational awareness in support running and snipes very well around the rucks.

I think Nienaber is banking on the fact that even if he goes lighter, faster and more mobile, they will still gain at least parity in the set pieces.

There's no one in that 23 that will let us down, they are all class players, they are all Lions.

I for one will give the boys 100% support

COME ON THE LIONS

flyhalffactory wrote:There's no one in that 23 that will let us down, they are all class players, they are all Lions.

I for one will give the boys 100% support

COME ON THE LIONS

Gee wiz why would someone complain about this comment...

It would be better if you could see who dislikes posts (same as you can with likes) but does it really matter?

Still, you could always like your own posts, but that would be a bit weird...

Good team, some probably marginal calls, but there or thereabouts overall for me. I wish them all the best.

It’s pretty much the team I would have picked apart from Adams over Watson and I would have gone Hamish Watson over Curry.

Adams to miss out entirely is incredibly harsh going on your form. Has Watson really shown more? Perhaps he’ll get his chance in another test.

Anyway, onwards and hopefully a team to really test the Boks.

Edit: sorry just noticed Lawes at 6. Would have gone for Beirne. Not sure laws brings enough at 6 or at lock. He therefore becomes more of a utility player for me and, on form, I would have gone for Beirne as Lawes I don’t think had shown enough so far on tour.

Cyril wrote:It would be better if you could see who dislikes posts (same as you can with likes) but does it really matter?

Still, you could always like your own posts, but that would be a bit weird...

I agree

British & Irish Lions: 15 Stuart Hogg, 14 Anthony Watson, 13 Elliot Daly, 12 Robbie Henshaw, 11 Duhan van der Merwe, 10 Dan Biggar, 9 Ali Price; 1 Wyn Jones, 2 Luke Cowan-Dickie, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 4 Maro Itoje, 5 Alun Wyn Jones (c), 6 Courtney Lawes, 7 Tom Curry, 8 Jack Conan

Replacements: 16 Ken Owens, 17 Rory Sutherland, 18 Kyle Sinckler, 19 Tadhg Beirne, 20 Hamish Watson, 21 Conor Murray, 22 Owen Farrell, 23 Liam Williams

from the rugby paper:-

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest-news/340002/luke-cowan-dickie-and-courtney-lawes-start-for-lions-in-first-test/?utm_medium=onesignal&utm_source=push_notifications&utm_campaign=web_push

The Oracle wrote:Good team, some probably marginal calls, but there or thereabouts overall for me. I wish them all the best.

It’s pretty much the team I would have picked apart from Adams over Watson and I would have gone Hamish Watson over Curry.

Adams to miss out entirely is incredibly harsh going on your form. Has Watson really shown more? Perhaps he’ll get his chance in another test.

Anyway, onwards and hopefully a team to really test the Boks.

Edit: sorry just noticed Lawes at 6. Would have gone for Beirne. Not sure laws brings enough at 6 or at lock. He therefore becomes more of a utility player for me and, on form, I would have gone for Beirne as Lawes I don’t think had shown enough so far on tour.

Dear Mr Gatland, please justify your selections for Oracle.

flyhalffactory wrote:There's no one in that 23 that will let us down, they are all class players, they are all Lions.

I for one will give the boys 100% support

COME ON THE LIONS

Indeed. always debates over close calls but that is a fine team