Re: m

by king_carlos Tue 10 Aug 2021, 4:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

GeordieFalcon wrote:Sam Simmonds should be a 12.

With limited distribution and no kicking game... I hate to be a killjoy but he sounds a bit like Manu without the same power! Whistle

by formerly known as Sam Mon 20 Sep 2021, 8:29 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:I keep hearing Lynagh being mentioned aswell.. i just dont see what all the fuss is about. Think theres lots better than him. Players like Harry Potter etc....

Let Lynagh go and player for Aus or Italy...

Potter is 23 so does have the physical development aspect on Lynagh. I doubt Potter will go past good club player, a bit like Bassett. His work rate, strong defence and decent but not rpaid speed mean he gets lots of game time in the Prem but he lacks the cutting edge finishing for international rugby. Happy to have him at Tigers.

Lynagh I think has that cutting edge and should see the rest of his game develop over the next couple of years. He's only 20 so second season out of the academy and he did pretty well in his first. I can't see him opting for Italy as there's not much platform for him there. He'll pick between England and Australia but has a year or two before that starts to become a factor for him.

by Geordie Tue 21 Sep 2021, 8:52 am

I see rumours that BIlly V will not be in the squad announced today, and questions over Daly, Ford and Mako V might also be missing....

Ford would be harsh!!

by WELL-PAST-IT Tue 21 Sep 2021, 8:55 am

BV will not be happy if that is the case, he looks to have worked very hard over the summer, slimmed down, got himself fit fit and apparently played very well on Saturday

by MichaelT Tue 21 Sep 2021, 9:08 am

No Billy, Mako, Ford, Daly, Nowell.

Marler, Sam Simmonds, Smith, Dombrandt, Radwan, Furbank, Steward, Randall, Quirke, Rodd and Lynagh in.

More importantly though - when did Ewels get 23 caps? Shocked

by WELL-PAST-IT Tue 21 Sep 2021, 9:22 am

How did Ludlow get in the squad, EJ obviously sees something I don't. He was pretty anonymous against the likes of Canada, he is not going to get better against Australia and SA.

Also surprised at Lynagh's inclusion, he seems to have jumped over 2 or three other players.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 21 Sep 2021, 9:30 am

Some positives and negatives on that squad. Clearly hasn't chosen to rest the Lions players across the board so Ford and George could be scratching their heads. Obviously disappointing not to see Quirke or vP.

by Geordie Tue 21 Sep 2021, 9:42 am

Training Squad announced.

Forwards (26):

Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons, 2 caps)
Callum Chick (Newcastle Falcons, 2 caps)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 31 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 33 caps)
Trevor Davison (Newcastle Falcons, 1 cap)
Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 1 cap)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 30 caps)
Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 9 caps)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors, 2 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 48 caps)
Jack Kenningham (Harlequins, uncapped)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 87 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 10 caps)
Lewis Ludlow (Gloucester Rugby, 2 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 72 caps)
George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
Gabriel Oghre (Wasps, uncapped)
Sam Riley (Harlequins, uncapped)
Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, uncapped)
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 44 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 12 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 24 caps)

Backs (19):

Mark Atkinson (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 93 caps)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 4 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 7 caps)
Louis Lynagh (Harlequins, uncapped)
Max Malins (Saracens, 8 caps)
Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 6 caps)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 66 caps)
Raffi Quirke (Sale Sharks, uncapped)
Adam Radwan (Newcastle Falcons, 1 cap)
Harry Randall (Bristol Bears, 2 caps)
Dan Robson (Wasps, 14 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 40 caps)
Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 2 caps)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)
Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 43 caps)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 51 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 109 caps)

by No 7&1/2 Tue 21 Sep 2021, 9:42 am

I'm blind. Quirke is there. Nice.

by Geordie Tue 21 Sep 2021, 9:44 am

interesting to see Davison and Chick kept on....i didnt think that would happen.

Ludlow...was awful in the Summer games yet kept in there??
And Ewells....how?

Its just a training camp after all i guess..

by Geordie Tue 21 Sep 2021, 9:51 am

And Lynagh over Hassell Collins...?

by lostinwales Tue 21 Sep 2021, 10:12 am

I can only agree. Its just a training camp and Eddie has a history of some odd picks who either never appear again or don't reappear for a long time. I'd expect a few more Sarries to come back in for the AI.

Ludlow was very poor and I have no idea what he's doing there.

Some interesting (and very promising) names in there though. Also interesting that Simmonds is there.

No George? Hookers are LCD, Blamire, Oghre, and Riley from the U20's (missed him 1st time around)

by Poorfour Tue 21 Sep 2021, 10:14 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:And Lynagh over Hassell Collins...?

It may be to lock him in to England rather than Aus or Italy. But it may also be about balance.

Eddie's picked two strike runners in May and Radwan, two fullbacks in Furbank and Steward, and two wing/fullbacks in Watson and Lynagh. Given the 50/22 he will probably want two players on the pitch with strong positional skills, and Lynagh definitely fits that bill.

The real surprise is Sam Riley - 2 senior appearances and straight into the training squad. I imagine he and Lynagh will be apprentices, but still...

Looks like a statement of intent over the changing of the guard, though. No Vunipolas, no Ford, no Daly.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 21 Sep 2021, 10:14 am

It's just a training squad. Makes interesting reading. Selecting a number of scrum halfs and hookers suggests that Eddie wants to have a deeper look into his options in those departments. There's a number of senior players I think Eddie is either giving a gentle nudge or maybe believes he doesn't need to see at this point.

Ford and Billy are probably good examples of that. Ford was rehabbing all summer and Billy was working on his fitness. They've both come back and started the season well. Eddie will have no doubt told them what he wants to see and they've been around enough squad to know what's what. Frees up space for Smith and Simmonds to come into the squad.

No idea why Atkinson is in there. I can't see him enjoying a late international career. He's already 31.

by lostinwales Tue 21 Sep 2021, 10:16 am

Eddie seems to sometimes want players in the training camp that can offer the right kind of opposition for the ones he wants to focus on

by Geordie Tue 21 Sep 2021, 10:29 am

No Ribbans...? Is he injured?

by WELL-PAST-IT Tue 21 Sep 2021, 10:34 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:No Ribbans...? Is he injured?

Went off for a HIA of Saturday and didn't come back on, I don't know if that is due to an assessment failure or that Api was doing well. He was playing pretty well before.

by lostinwales Tue 21 Sep 2021, 10:43 am

.. Saracens centre Elliot Daly has had an operation on a stress fracture aggravated on the British and Irish Lions tour and won't feature in the autumn Tests.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 21 Sep 2021, 10:54 am

And I was just hoping Daly was dropped as the coaches had realised he was underwhelming.

by Poorfour Tue 21 Sep 2021, 11:00 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:And I was just hoping Daly was dropped as the coaches had realised he was underwhelming.

If Steward or Furbank seize their chance, he might not get back in. It's always been that way.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 21 Sep 2021, 11:06 am

What are peoples hopes and expectations then leading into the 6 nations?

I do keep swinging from the ideal of introducing people gradually to give them the best chance to thinking no, there are 4 or 5 guys who are pushing because of performance and why hold them back to meet a hypothetical line. I'm at present mre thinkng pick a team that in 18 months could be pretty exceptional and allow a run of 4 or 5 games where combos may look clunky and results may not be amazing. Given the performance and results from the 6Ns may not be that much of a risk.

For me if we could get a team like this (using only the guys in this squad):
Genge LCD Sinckler
Itoje Lawes
Curry Underhill
Dombrandt
Randall Smith
May Farrell Tuilagi Radwan Steward

Marler Blamire Stuart/Heyes
Hill Kennigham Quirke Marchant Watson

That would make me very happy. I think we'd struggle a bit for cohesion initially especially as I'd want to see more offloading and linking but eventually could be great to watch in performance and results. Probably would pick up a loss over the AIs but, yes, a team I could get behind.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 21 Sep 2021, 11:06 am

Poorfour wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:And I was just hoping Daly was dropped as the coaches had realised he was underwhelming.

If Steward or Furbank seize their chance, he might not get back in. It's always been that way.

I mean for me Furbank isn't good enough.

by lostinwales Tue 21 Sep 2021, 11:13 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:And I was just hoping Daly was dropped as the coaches had realised he was underwhelming.

If Steward or Furbank seize their chance, he might not get back in. It's always been that way.

I mean for me Furbank isn't good enough.

He's a bit Alex Goode like really. Apparently does great things at club level but does not have the physical attributes to make it at international level

No big Joe also a surprise.

by Sgt_Pooly Tue 21 Sep 2021, 11:16 am

Atkinson in....no O'Conor......Eddie is truly baffling sometimes.

Furbank and Ludlow??? Oh my....

by Geordie Tue 21 Sep 2021, 11:36 am

Just give Steward his position at 15 and let him develop there nicely.....

by king_carlos Tue 21 Sep 2021, 11:49 am

It's just a training squad, Sarge. Worth noting that Jamie George hasn't made the squad. There's no way he isn't considered one of the best 4 hookers in England! Will Evans made this same training squad a fair while ago now with very few Tigers appearances under his belt for instance.

It's not been mentioned much that Ben Earl has missed out on this squad as well as the summer internationals.

1.Marler, Genge, Obano, Rodd
2.LCD, Blamire, Oghre, Riley
3.Sinckler, Stuart, Heyes, Davison
4.Itoje, J Hill, Martin
5.Lawes, Ewels
6.Curry, T Hill, Ludlow
7.Underhill, Ludlam, Kenningham
8.Dombrandt, Simmonds, Chick

9.Youngs, Randall, Robson, Quirke
10.Farrell, Smith

11.May, Radwan, Lynagh
12.Tuilagi, Lawrence, Atkinson
13.Marchant, Slade
14.Watson, Sleightholme
15.Steward, Malins, Furbank

I don't get it with Oghre, Davison, Ewels, Ludlow, Atkinson and Furbank. They look like good players but not top internationals to me.

I'm happy to see some young front rows in Rodd, Blamire, Riley and Heyes all involved.

Very happy to see Quirke selected though personally I'd have picked Jack van Poortvliet or Alex Mitchell over Robson.

Delighted that Radwan and Steward have been retained. Good to see Sleightholme there as well, he looks a classy player. Feel a bit for Cokanasiga after a good showing in the summer though.

Kenningham is a very exciting flanker too so it's good to see him involved.

9 back rows selected with Billy missing out but still no Mark Wilson would suggest we've seen the last of the Falcons stalwart for England I'd guess. On merit that's definitely the right call but it's a shame that Wilson's final England appearances were well below his best.

by Poorfour Tue 21 Sep 2021, 12:01 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:What are peoples hopes and expectations then leading into the 6 nations?

I do keep swinging from the ideal of introducing people gradually to give them the best chance to thinking no, there are 4 or 5 guys who are pushing because of performance and why hold them back to meet a hypothetical line. I'm at present mre thinkng pick a team that in 18 months could be pretty exceptional and allow a run of 4 or 5 games where combos may look clunky and results may not be amazing. Given the performance and results from the 6Ns may not be that much of a risk.

For me if we could get a team like this (using only the guys in this squad):
Genge LCD Sinckler
Itoje Lawes
Curry Underhill
Dombrandt
Randall Smith
May Farrell Tuilagi Radwan Steward

Marler Blamire Stuart/Heyes
Hill Kennigham Quirke Marchant Watson

That would make me very happy. I think we'd struggle a bit for cohesion initially especially as I'd want to see more offloading and linking but eventually could be great to watch in performance and results. Probably would pick up a loss over the AIs but, yes, a team I could get behind.

I might quibble with you about who starts vs who's benched (in particular I'd love to see Smith with Tuilagi at 12 and Marchant at 13, and I might be tempted to have Marler on defensive brief), but that's a squad you could definitely get behind.

by Geordie Tue 21 Sep 2021, 12:31 pm

king_carlos wrote:It's just a training squad, Sarge. Worth noting that Jamie George hasn't made the squad. There's no way he isn't considered one of the best 4 hookers in England! Will Evans made this same training squad a fair while ago now with very few Tigers appearances under his belt for instance.

It's not been mentioned much that Ben Earl has missed out on this squad as well as the summer internationals.

1.Marler, Genge, Obano, Rodd
2.LCD, Blamire, Oghre, Riley
3.Sinckler, Stuart, Heyes, Davison
4.Itoje, J Hill, Martin
5.Lawes, Ewels
6.Curry, T Hill, Ludlow
7.Underhill, Ludlam, Kenningham
8.Dombrandt, Simmonds, Chick

9.Youngs, Randall, Robson, Quirke
10.Farrell, Smith

11.May, Radwan, Lynagh
12.Tuilagi, Lawrence, Atkinson
13.Marchant, Slade
14.Watson, Sleightholme
15.Steward, Malins, Furbank

I don't get it with Oghre, Davison, Ewels, Ludlow, Atkinson and Furbank. They look like good players but not top internationals to me.

I'm happy to see some young front rows in Rodd, Blamire, Riley and Heyes all involved.

Very happy to see Quirke selected though personally I'd have picked Jack van Poortvliet or Alex Mitchell over Robson.

Delighted that Radwan and Steward have been retained. Good to see Sleightholme there as well, he looks a classy player. Feel a bit for Cokanasiga after a good showing in the summer though.

Kenningham is a very exciting flanker too so it's good to see him involved.

9 back rows selected with Billy missing out but still no Mark Wilson would suggest we've seen the last of the Falcons stalwart for England I'd guess. On merit that's definitely the right call but it's a shame that Wilson's final England appearances were well below his best.

He's just had a knee operation KC to sort out a long term issue. Wont be back until around end of November.

However, having said that...i think his days are numbered anyway. We have young lads now who can do his job.....

by Mr Bounce Tue 21 Sep 2021, 1:30 pm

As always, I am flummoxed by Eddie. No Joe C, no Jamie George, yet the likes of Oghre, Ludlow and Chick are there. Plus Lynagh hasn't shown me very much. Is this just a "Cap him so nobody else can" exercise? Cynical if so. I just don't see what Lynagh really offers us over the wingers we have.

I would love to see a back line against Tonga of Randall, Smith, Radwan, Tuilagi, Marchant, Watson and Steward. Mainly because I have tickets to the match!!

by king_carlos Tue 21 Sep 2021, 1:41 pm

It's a 45-man training squad. It will change before the AIs. Will Evans, Manu Vunipola, Jacob Umaga, Marcus Smith years before he was capped. Jones has always picked a large number of players in training squads so he can have a look at them.

by lostinwales Tue 21 Sep 2021, 1:45 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:As always, I am flummoxed by Eddie. No Joe C, no Jamie George, yet the likes of Oghre, Ludlow and Chick are there. Plus Lynagh hasn't shown me very much. Is this just a "Cap him so nobody else can" exercise? Cynical if so. I just don't see what Lynagh really offers us over the wingers we have
...

He won't be the first guy to go to an England training session who ends up playing for another country (Williams is the first name that comes to mind).

by king_carlos Tue 21 Sep 2021, 1:48 pm

I've had a read through a few different reports on the squad and find it really surprising that Ben Earl isn't even mentioned for his absence in any of them. He's been fantastic for Sarries and Bristol over a long period now, I thought his England cameos were really impressive and he seems exactly the sort of player that would seem to suit the Jones game plan.

Jamie George and Earl are the two that I'd be really surprised to see miss out for the AIs. Especially George given that LCD will be more in need of rest after starting all three Lions tests.

Vunipola x 2 and Ford I could see missing out as there are players knocking on the door in each of their positions.

by king_carlos Tue 21 Sep 2021, 1:50 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
king_carlos wrote:9 back rows selected with Billy missing out but still no Mark Wilson would suggest we've seen the last of the Falcons stalwart for England I'd guess. On merit that's definitely the right call but it's a shame that Wilson's final England appearances were well below his best.

He's just had a knee operation KC to sort out a long term issue. Wont be back until around end of November.

However, having said that...i think his days are numbered anyway. We have young lads now who can do his job.....

Cheers GF. I didn't know he'd had an operation.

by Mr Bounce Tue 21 Sep 2021, 1:51 pm

Yes, but why Ludlow over Earl?

by king_carlos Tue 21 Sep 2021, 2:15 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:Yes, but why Ludlow over Earl?

Presumably the coaches feel they know what Earl can offer but want to see more of Ludlow at training. Not the selection I'd make but every time Jones has named squads for these training camps there's a tendency for a bit too much to be read into them.

It's a squad for I believe a 2 day training camp at the end of September that's been named after 1 round of Premiership rugby. There's 6 more rounds of Prem rugby to come before the first AI against Tonga on 6th November.

Sinckler was left out of the comparative squad in September 2017 having made the 23 for all 3 Lions tests against Australia over that summer. Marcus Smith was in that squad then pretty much disappeared from them for 4 years.

by Poorfour Tue 21 Sep 2021, 2:59 pm

My best guess as to how it works is that Eddie thinks in terms of multiple generations of players:

1) There are those he thinks have potential, and he wants to take a look at and give some direction to but he has no intention of picking. Smith was in this category - brought into training very early but then left to develop at his club until Eddie thought he was ready for England and England was ready for him

2) Those he thinks might be ready and wants to give a try. Some of them come off and become permanent fixtures (Tom Curry, say), some disappear without trace (Teimana Harrison anyone?) and others don't initially seize their chance but Eddie clearly sees enough in to invite them back at some point (Furbank, Ludlow - I believe statistically Ludlow was one of the most effective players in the Prem last season in terms of the sheer number of positive involvements, and I think that's what Eddie sees in him)

3) There are those who are established (in Eddie's mind) and are going to play.

4) There are those who are being given a wake up call by being sent back to their clubs.

5) There are those who are out and not even tearing it up at club level will change his mind.

I would also hazard that there is a 6th category which is Joe Marler and for which the selection criterion is "can he be arsed to play?"

by king_carlos Tue 21 Sep 2021, 3:07 pm

Good post, Poorfour.

With Ford being left out of this squad it's also worth mentioning that Farrell and Smith have to be rested for at least one AI each as they were both on the Lions tour. I'd be very surprised if Ford isn't back in the squad for November given that resting Faz and Smith will mean rotation at 10.

by Geordie Tue 21 Sep 2021, 3:08 pm

i thought Smith had been given dispensation because he only played part in a waste of time game?

Ford is too good not to be in.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 21 Sep 2021, 3:09 pm

Is that definitely a thing carlos? I've read official statements talking about the 10 week break but nothing on the 2 out of 3 AIs.

by lostinwales Tue 21 Sep 2021, 3:25 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:i thought Smith had been given dispensation because he only played part in a waste of time game?

Ford is too good not to be in.

Smith will have been training with the Lions throughout which is what they will probably bear in mind

by Geordie Tue 21 Sep 2021, 3:26 pm

But he only got there a few weeks from the end, didnt he?

by Geordie Tue 21 Sep 2021, 3:38 pm

Wow i just realised thats Mark Atkinson the Gloucester centre whos in the squad....i saw the Atkinson and assumed it was Charlie...at Wasps...

So hes being looked at, for the big centre option?

by king_carlos Tue 21 Sep 2021, 3:40 pm

https://therpa.co.uk/news/2018/10/in-season-breaks-introduced-as-english-professional-rugby-season-confirmed/

RPA wrote:- England players on the 2021 British and Irish Lions tour to have a rest week during the 2021 Autumn internationals

- English Lions’ players to have 10 weeks break

Definitely a thing, 7.5

GeordieFalcon wrote:i thought Smith had been given dispensation because he only played part in a waste of time game?

I didn't think that Smith was in the EPS so didn't actually need dispensation to return for Quins earlier by my understanding. Though there was an article about him getting dispensation to return earlier that confused me for that reason. Baxter mentioned in an interview before the Tigers game that Simmonds could both technically return from this coming weekend as his rest period was 5 weeks rather than 10 as he wasn't in the EPS. It could be that Baxter is wrong on that one but I'd be surprised given his management of such situation is one of his great strengths in putting together that impressive Chiefs squad.

My understanding though is that if a player is named in the EPS for the upcoming AI's they would then be required to get a weeks break during the AI's if they were on the Lions tour regardless of playing time on that tour and whether they were in the EPS last season. If all that makes sense?

If it all sounds contrived and confusing that's because the EPS agreement is at times very contrived and confusing. In the RFU, PRL and RPAs defence though I'd prefer a contrived and confusing agreement that results in better player welfare, full player availability for training camps and a better relationship between club/country than a free for all that seems simple on the surface but actually results in an absolute fuster cluck.

by Geordie Tue 21 Sep 2021, 3:42 pm

Yes i agree all Englands lions players have to miss one of the games....but i thought Smith was an exception.
Have to get confirmation though....

by king_carlos Tue 21 Sep 2021, 4:05 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yes i agree all Englands lions players have to miss one of the games....but i thought Smith was an exception.
Have to get confirmation though....

My understanding was that only the Lions in last season EPS had to have a 10 week rest period (the others the 5 week rest period that all Premiership players have to get) but all the English Lions would need a week off during the AI's regardless of selection in last seasons EPS.

So Smith and Simmonds could return for their clubs earlier than the EPS players but would still have to have a rest week in November.

I hope Smith starts against Australia and South Africa with experience around him, Ford starts against Tonga with Quirke at 9 so we can see one of the U20 scrum-halves at that level.

by Poorfour Tue 21 Sep 2021, 4:36 pm

It's not 100% clear - all the Telegraph said is that he will miss the first two Prem games.

The wider point about rotating players through the squad during the AIs probably holds - but I could see an exemption being agreed for Smith on the basis that he's young, not carrying any known injuries and he needs experience at International level.

I think we'll see a bit of a revolution in player management over the next year or two as the Protecht gumshields get rolled out and used more widely. Quins had them last year and it's what enabled them to manage training so that our squad stayed fit over the course of the season and, I imagine, Joe Marler was able to play 175 minutes over the Semi and Final. Rather than blanket dispensations, I think we'll see a move towards individually tailored programmes where players are rested based on the data.

Whether that will stop Eddie breaking players in training remains an open question.

by Poorfour Tue 21 Sep 2021, 5:15 pm

Poorfour wrote:
I would also hazard that there is a 6th category which is Joe Marler and for which the selection criterion is "can he be arsed to play?"

It appears I was right:

Eddie Jones wrote:Prop Joe Marler, who has won 72 caps, is also back in the fold having not featured in the 2021 Six Nations.

"You take Joe on face value, he is one of the most honest players I have met," Jones said.

"We had a chat about six or eight weeks ago and he wants to give it a go. At this stage he is fully committed and we will see where we can take it because he was in wonderful form for Harlequins at the end of the season."

by king_carlos Tue 21 Sep 2021, 5:47 pm

Poorfour wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
I would also hazard that there is a 6th category which is Joe Marler and for which the selection criterion is "can he be arsed to play?"

It appears I was right:

Eddie Jones wrote:Prop Joe Marler, who has won 72 caps, is also back in the fold having not featured in the 2021 Six Nations.

"You take Joe on face value, he is one of the most honest players I have met," Jones said.

"We had a chat about six or eight weeks ago and he wants to give it a go. At this stage he is fully committed and we will see where we can take it because he was in wonderful form for Harlequins at the end of the season."

Marler's form was indeed brilliant last season for Quins so I think it's fair to recall him if he's available. Loosehead is a position of strength anyway so it's not like Marler making himself available/unavailable neuters the team at times.

His fringe defence, chop tackling and set-piece work are top drawer. He's a good foil for Cowan-Dickie and Sinckler as well I think. There's a good balance between the 3 of them.

I reckon LCD will hold onto the starting shirt ahead of George at full strength following his performances last season and the Lions tour. He's developed into a world class player.

by doctor_grey Tue 21 Sep 2021, 5:51 pm

I think I like the selections. Plenty of utes (that is New Jersey language for youths), some with 20-40 caps and four greybeards (Youngs, Farrell, Lawes, Marler). If nothing else Eddie Jones has provided plenty of fodder for us to chew over. I think in the games against SA and Aus, we will see the greybeards feature prominently.

by lostinwales Tue 21 Sep 2021, 6:04 pm

doctor_grey wrote:I think I like the selections. Plenty of utes (that is New Jersey language for youths), some with 20-40 caps and four greybeards (Youngs, Farrell, Lawes, Marler). If nothing else Eddie Jones has provided plenty of fodder for us to chew over. I think in the games against SA and Aus, we will see the greybeards feature prominently.

May qualifies as a greybeard I think. (I am actively shocked that Malins has more caps than Marchant)

by Sgt_Pooly Tue 21 Sep 2021, 7:43 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
I would also hazard that there is a 6th category which is Joe Marler and for which the selection criterion is "can he be arsed to play?"

It appears I was right:

Eddie Jones wrote:Prop Joe Marler, who has won 72 caps, is also back in the fold having not featured in the 2021 Six Nations.

"You take Joe on face value, he is one of the most honest players I have met," Jones said.

"We had a chat about six or eight weeks ago and he wants to give it a go. At this stage he is fully committed and we will see where we can take it because he was in wonderful form for Harlequins at the end of the season."

Marler's form was indeed brilliant last season for Quins so I think it's fair to recall him if he's available. Loosehead is a position of strength anyway so it's not like Marler making himself available/unavailable neuters the team at times.

His fringe defence, chop tackling and set-piece work are top drawer. He's a good foil for Cowan-Dickie and Sinckler as well I think. There's a good balance between the 3 of them.

I reckon LCD will hold onto the starting shirt ahead of George at full strength following his performances last season and the Lions tour. He's developed into a world class player.

I think this is a good call Carlos. Marler is our best option at LH, especially with MV not quite fully firing. Sinckler needs to step up at Th or Heyes (if he carries on with his progession) could really threaten his spot. The young lad is coming along nicely....

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