England's Summer of Cricket 2021

First topic message reminder :

That's the important wicket. Deserved for Robinson and England.

Now into that brittle middle order.

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:There is some talk about OT being spin-friendly. So when you least expect it after Kohli's team managed to justify his selection calls, will Ashwin at last get to play? Think not, Kohli just loves to have that 4th seamer, he seems to think that keeps the others also well rested and rotated in between spells. And Jadeja, if start spinning, can do the job, as he proved in the last game, even not being at his best. Hope they'll stop destroying his batting, leave the guy at 7, or let him bat 6, get Sky in at 5 for the struggling Rahane.
The only reason I will still keep Ashwin in my thoughts for the next test, is the bounce at OT, Ashwin loves a bouncy pitch...

they might play Ashwin for Rahane  i.e 6 bowlers

We know Virat can at times go mental with selections, but this is even beyond Kohli at his worst!
Ashwin, if at all he comes in, will have to come in for Siraj... Can't drop Shardul after that impact performance, though he's the weakest link in that bowling attack. Siraj can actually do with a rest, and as I said above, I'd prefer Umesh to be retained and Siraj benched, if Shami is fit and available...

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:
Possible team: Burns; Hameed; Malan; Root; Pope; Buttler; Woakes; Overton; Wood; Leach; Anderson/Robinson

No Bairstow?

Don't think so. Buttler's a favourite of the selection lot so comes straight back in. It's likely between Pope/Bairstow for the outgoing player, and as Pope did better than Bairstow in the last test it'd be reasonable to assume Bairstow's making way. Only other options are to put Bairstow at 3 and drop Malan, which is very unlikely so soon after Malan's recall, or take out one of the four seamers (which would be silly).

I wasn't thinking in terms of Butler or Bairstow
Butler is a giver and to me so should be Bairstow...he has looked good in this series as he has over a period of time.
Malan too looks OK on pitches that do not seam a lot with his stand and hit through the line play....he plays strokes & gets the score moving
My view on Pope is well known...but if Eng want to keep Pope in for whatever reasons....then Eng might look at playing just 4 bowlers...enabling them to keep all of Pope, Butler and Bairstow in

msp83 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:There is some talk about OT being spin-friendly. So when you least expect it after Kohli's team managed to justify his selection calls, will Ashwin at last get to play? Think not, Kohli just loves to have that 4th seamer, he seems to think that keeps the others also well rested and rotated in between spells. And Jadeja, if start spinning, can do the job, as he proved in the last game, even not being at his best. Hope they'll stop destroying his batting, leave the guy at 7, or let him bat 6, get Sky in at 5 for the struggling Rahane.
The only reason I will still keep Ashwin in my thoughts for the next test, is the bounce at OT, Ashwin loves a bouncy pitch...

they might play Ashwin for Rahane  i.e 6 bowlers

We know Virat can at times go mental with selections, but this is even beyond Kohli at his worst!
Ashwin, if at all he comes in, will have to come in for Siraj... Can't drop Shardul after that impact performance, though he's the weakest link in that bowling attack. Siraj can actually do with a rest, and as I said above, I'd prefer Umesh to be retained and Siraj benched, if Shami is fit and available...

4 seamers and Jadeja is a given
between Siraj and shami, the latter is a give if both are fit
Only dispensable position is Rahane and......I think Ashwin for Rahane will bring more runs with bat and obviously a world class additional spinner in

I hear Siraj has a niggle though

msp
Taking on guildford's point a bit further, of course the English weather is notoriously unpredictable, and we've had a relatively cool and damp August, and now a few days of hot sunny weather (at least by our standards - daytime maximums in the upper 20s deg C). Groundsmen will have had difficulty preparing dry and bouncy pitches, so instead we've often had a bit of seam movement off the surface and cloudy overhead conditions that allow for a bit of swing, but not enough abrasion on the ball to make reverse with the old ball possible.

If we get a hot and dry summer, the wickets would inevitably be a bit quicker and bouncier, and offer a bit more to the spinners and less to the seam / swing bowler. Actually a pretty good chance that the Old Trafford wicket will be the driest, quickest and most spin-friendly of the series, both because in recent history it has tended to be one of the better wickets and also because of the weather of the last few days.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/world-test-champions-new-zealand-to-return-for-england-summer-in-2022-1276823

The test schedule is an odd one - England are playing host to the Kiwis again for a three test series next summer, South Africa being the other summer opponents.

The ECB need to start thinking smart with regards to the summer schedule. South Africa as the weaker team should be touring first as preparation for New Zealand. I do much prefer three test series though, five is just a bit overkill.

The fact it is the first time NZ will have played more than two Tests on a tour of England since 2008 is ridiculous. It pretty much always produces good games when they tour.

Can't wait for the 6 match ODI series vs India next summer that's also shoehorned in there. That's the biggie for me and nothing to do with generating a load of money for cricket boards of both countries. Can we play you every week!

EDIT: it's 3 T20s and 3 ODIs. Even more excited now, perhaps they can fit a couple of Tests in as well? We've barely player India in that format lately, so would be good to know how we measure up

Sarcasm aside, at what point do people realise they're being sold the same thing over and over again, and stop paying what can now easily be £100 a ticket to attend a match that doesn't mean anything at all

VTR wrote:Sarcasm aside, at what point do people realise they're being sold the same thing over and over again, and stop paying what can now easily be £100 a ticket to attend a match that doesn't mean anything at all

The revenues generated in Eng as are probably trivial compared to the ones Ind would generate especially through TV advertisement slots

And I won't be surprised if BCCI has thru a undisclosed commercial deal offered ECB a portion of those revenues to find a way to play every year.
In the turbo charged Hyper-nationalist political environment of India, the New-Indians whipping up their erstwhile White Colonial Masters is selling like proverbial Hot cakes to the underdeveloped Ego of the hyper nationalist paying customer

Yes, agree, you could have no one in the ground and the coffers would still be pretty full. It is getting boring though, and there's an increasing tendency for the big 3 to play each other almost constantly

In the normal way I'd be annoyed that England are playing the same sides all over again.

But in the case of NZ the 2022 schedule is welcome. They are world champs and they are worthy of a three-Test tour.

Agree that the NZ tests should have been the late-summer ones, although this way round the England players will have had the chance of some red-ball cricket before the harder (NZ) of the two series.

Am I losing the plot a bit here...but see it being said on here, and in the media too that Bairstow is in form, and should be in the side? Have I missed something?
Sure he's changed his technique (to being LBW instead of bowled)...but he's still not done very well unless we're lowering the bar to a ridiculously low level. In his last 34 test innings going back to 2019, he has just 3 fifties (high score of 57) at an average of 21.81.

Buttler isn't exactly Adam Gilchrist, but since he came back into the XI in 2018 he averages 35 with the bat, and in the last 12 months (since a shaky series vs WI) he's not put a foot wrong with the gloves. It's not amazing, but considering the other issues with the XI he's more than fine for the time being.
Maybe not in great form at the moment mind, but there really isn't a debate as to who should be playing of the two

Suggesting Bairstow should play over Pope is even more ludicrous. I know our mate KP_F has decided Pope is the worst batsman to ever strap on a pair of pads, but he did average 44 in 2020 and while struggled this summer, has been injured for the majority of it. No way he should be being dropped, England need to give him as much cricket as possible

Buttler 2021: avg 28.55 with one fifty
Bairstow 2021: avg 25.07 with one fifty

The one thing to note with that however is that Buttler has been playing in his preferred 6/7 position compared with anywhere between 3-7 for Bairstow this year. Neither is in great form but I would consider Bairstow as being more likely to produce a big innings right now than Buttler.

Olly
While Bairstow's stats certainly back up your position, there is at least a perception that he's striking the ball pretty well and been tending to hit the fielders a bit more than normal.

The Indian commentator on TMS made the comment last week (as a general thing, not in particular reference to YJB) that sometimes you can be in decent form with the bat but just not be getting the runs, partly because of a bit of luck.

I do accept though that Bairstow has a particular technical issue with the ball coming back in from outside off stump, as he gets his front pad too far over. Perhaps needs to look at the Steve Smith method of trying to whip this ball to mid wicket rather than defending to mid off?

As for Pope, he's clearly got some talent, but needs to work on his playing of spin and on not making silly mistakes - at least unlike YJB it isn't the same issue repeatedly.

To be honest I am a little surprised they are bringing Buttler back for this match. His fans don't need to worry - Joe Root has already confirmed he will be selected : I guess Moeen just didn't cut it as vice captain

If , as we keep hearing , he is reluctant to go on the Ashes tour , there seems little point in recalling him for this one game. Not as if he is in any sort of form. Never mind comparing stats over 2 years or whatever : in this series Jos has a top score of 25 - and even in that innings he was dropped on 2. I agree with Soul that right now , Bairstow looks more likely to get runs in this match.

Anyway I see Root also insists that Moeen remains his first choice spinner and Leach only plays if they want two...so I am fairly convinced that selections for this game are based more on hope and prayer than anything else...

Well I do see that Buttler has been confirmed back in, so I think the right call has easily been made there.

I like Moeen, but really not sure why he's playing again at this point. I'm hardly Jack Leach's biggest fan, but it will be a genuine travesty and stain on Silverwood's CV if he doesn't play even a game this summer. How are we even further away from knowing if he can play as a spinner in non-subcontinental conditions than we were this time last year? It's absolutely baffling, bordering on disgraceful, the way he's been treated by Silverwood and co. (my Silverwood rant is waiting for after the final test, but the bloke is seemingly evidently useless imo)

alfie wrote:I see Root also insists that Moeen remains his first choice spinner and Leach only plays if they want two...so I am fairly convinced that selections for this game are based more on hope and prayer than anything else...

I think it's been pretty clear for a while now that Root sees himself as a genuine extra spinner and isn't interested in anyone he doesn't think offers something different/extra to the side.

Bairstow again, is it?

Christ, what’s the point? If Buttler is in, Bairstow has to come out. Granted, I understand why Bairstow might have kept his spot over Buttler, what with all the medium-term uncertainty. But he doesn’t deserve his spot elsewhere. I’d genuinely rather play Crawley lower down than Bairstow again. He’s got to be behind Pope et al right now. 

I found the sameyness of the bowlers frustrating last time out. I can’t see much justification for Overton if Ali and Woakes play. Id prefer some sort of ‘different’ bowler (and not just any person different to Overton). I’d like Mahmood, personally, but I’d genuinely go with Scurran even if his difference to the others is just being a leftie.

dummy_half wrote:msp
Taking on guildford's point a bit further, of course the English weather is notoriously unpredictable, and we've had a relatively cool and damp August, and now a few days of hot sunny weather (at least by our standards - daytime maximums in the upper 20s deg C). Groundsmen will have had difficulty preparing dry and bouncy pitches, so instead we've often had a bit of seam movement off the surface and cloudy overhead conditions that allow for a bit of swing, but not enough abrasion on the ball to make reverse with the old ball possible.

If we get a hot and dry summer, the wickets would inevitably be a bit quicker and bouncier, and offer a bit more to the spinners and less to the seam / swing bowler. Actually a pretty good chance that the Old Trafford wicket will be the driest, quickest and most spin-friendly of the series, both because in recent history it has tended to be one of the better wickets and also because of the weather of the last few days.

I don't mind any pitch so long as there is decent help for bowlers, of either kind. Spin or Seam/swing. What I utterly dislike are flat roads that might start waking up on day 5 after both teams have already scored 500 and 450 in their first innings, and on some tracks when you can play for 10 days, but not a delivery will divert from the straight and narrow!
And I believe in home tests, there is nothing wrong in preparing tracks that can facilitate the home side's strengths. But if England is asking for flat tracks, I feel its not to facilitate their strengths, but to mask their weakness...

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Bairstow again, is it?

Christ, what’s the point? If Buttler is in, Bairstow has to come out. Granted, I understand why Bairstow might have kept his spot over Buttler, what with all the medium-term uncertainty. But he doesn’t deserve his spot elsewhere. I’d genuinely rather play Crawley lower down than Bairstow again. He’s got to be behind Pope et al right now. 

I found the sameyness of the bowlers frustrating last time out. I can’t see much justification for Overton if Ali and Woakes play. Id prefer some sort of ‘different’ bowler (and not just any person different to Overton). I’d like Mahmood, personally, but I’d genuinely go with Scurran even if his difference to the others is just being a leftie.

Mahmood is injured and unavailable isn't he? I was looking to have him in test action, seemed a decent prospect in the limited overs stuff he played in. Think it could be Wood than Curran at OT. If it is the usual bouncy track, Wood might enjoy it better, than some of the other grounds?
Having seen Sam Curran in action in different contexts, I would always seriously consider him for any team that he's available for. He's surely one with that Ex Factor.
His returns though for this series, has been rather mediocre. When I remember what he did to India last time round, I hope his rediscovery of form can wait a bit!

Ravichandran Ashwin, despite being the best test spinner in the world currently, is struggling to make it to the playing 11. However, more than 4 years after it seemed his limited overs international career grounded to a halt, he has been selected in India's squad for the T-20 World Cup! Bizarre! Would have left Ash to focus on tests, not exactly because he can't the do the job with the ball, but for limited overs, there are others who can, who in the overall scheme of things, might be better. Rahul Chahar in the squad, Washington Sundar who hasn't even been selected in the reserves, There is of course Jadeja, and Axar Patel and Crunal Pandya...
I am happy for Ashwin, to have made this comeback, mostly based on the continuous strides that he keeps making as a test spinner even at this stage of his career rather than any standout IPL performances, but I would rather see him selected for the next test match, than playing in the T-20 WC.

msp83 wrote:

dummy_half wrote:msp
Taking on guildford's point a bit further, of course the English weather is notoriously unpredictable, and we've had a relatively cool and damp August, and now a few days of hot sunny weather (at least by our standards - daytime maximums in the upper 20s deg C). Groundsmen will have had difficulty preparing dry and bouncy pitches, so instead we've often had a bit of seam movement off the surface and cloudy overhead conditions that allow for a bit of swing, but not enough abrasion on the ball to make reverse with the old ball possible.

If we get a hot and dry summer, the wickets would inevitably be a bit quicker and bouncier, and offer a bit more to the spinners and less to the seam / swing bowler. Actually a pretty good chance that the Old Trafford wicket will be the driest, quickest and most spin-friendly of the series, both because in recent history it has tended to be one of the better wickets and also because of the weather of the last few days.

I don't mind any pitch so long as there is decent help for bowlers, of either kind. Spin or Seam/swing. What I utterly dislike are flat roads that might start waking up on day 5 after both teams have already scored 500 and 450 in their first innings, and on some tracks when you can play for 10 days, but not a delivery will divert from the straight and narrow!
And I believe in home tests, there is nothing wrong in preparing tracks that can facilitate the home side's strengths. But if England is asking for flat tracks, I feel its not to facilitate their strengths, but to mask their weakness...

Msp - I wasn't suggesting that England are asking for flat tracks but trying to make the point that there's a commercial reality for the particular County Club putting on the Test match. I'm sure the County Club will listen to any request from England but you shouldn't overlook that pitch preparation in this country is a lengthy process and so any request would need to be made in good time. I'm also sure the Club putting on the Test will be happy for the track to take turn if that's what's wanted and would probably be aiming for that to happen anyway but ideally not until day four. Although all the hosting Clubs will want England to win, they will want it to be during day five with the match reaching a natural conclusion then. However, if they only had a straight choice between England winning on day three and losing on day five ...

guildfordbat wrote:

msp83 wrote:

dummy_half wrote:msp
Taking on guildford's point a bit further, of course the English weather is notoriously unpredictable, and we've had a relatively cool and damp August, and now a few days of hot sunny weather (at least by our standards - daytime maximums in the upper 20s deg C). Groundsmen will have had difficulty preparing dry and bouncy pitches, so instead we've often had a bit of seam movement off the surface and cloudy overhead conditions that allow for a bit of swing, but not enough abrasion on the ball to make reverse with the old ball possible.

If we get a hot and dry summer, the wickets would inevitably be a bit quicker and bouncier, and offer a bit more to the spinners and less to the seam / swing bowler. Actually a pretty good chance that the Old Trafford wicket will be the driest, quickest and most spin-friendly of the series, both because in recent history it has tended to be one of the better wickets and also because of the weather of the last few days.

I don't mind any pitch so long as there is decent help for bowlers, of either kind. Spin or Seam/swing. What I utterly dislike are flat roads that might start waking up on day 5 after both teams have already scored 500 and 450 in their first innings, and on some tracks when you can play for 10 days, but not a delivery will divert from the straight and narrow!
And I believe in home tests, there is nothing wrong in preparing tracks that can facilitate the home side's strengths. But if England is asking for flat tracks, I feel its not to facilitate their strengths, but to mask their weakness...

Msp - I wasn't suggesting that England are asking for flat tracks but trying to make the point that there's a commercial reality for the particular County Club putting on the Test match. I'm sure the County Club will listen to any request from England but you shouldn't overlook that pitch preparation in this country is a lengthy process and so any request would need to be made in good time. I'm also sure the Club putting on the Test will be happy for the track to take turn if that's what's wanted and would probably be aiming for that to happen anyway but ideally not until day four. Although all the hosting Clubs will want England to win, they will want it to be during day five with the match reaching a natural conclusion then. However, if they only had a straight choice between England winning on day three and losing on day five ...

Guildford, as long as the pitch keep the bowlers in the game throughout the duration of the match, I have no problems.

msp83 wrote:
...
Guildford, as long as the pitch keep the bowlers in the game throughout the duration of the match, I have no problems.

Msp - understood but don't overlook that great bowlers will have the awareness and ability to take the pitch out of the equation. As mentioned again recently, the prime example for me was Holding at the Oval Test in '76. However, as Nasser said on comms, Bumrah bowled brilliantly and did similar on Monday albeit without fully deserved rewards.

msp83 wrote:Ravichandran Ashwin, despite being the best test spinner in the world currently, is struggling to make it to the playing 11. However, more than 4 years after it seemed his limited overs international career grounded to a halt, he has been selected in India's squad for the T-20 World Cup! Bizarre! Would have left Ash to focus on tests, not exactly because he can't the do the job with the ball, but for limited overs, there are others who can, who in the overall scheme of things, might be better. Rahul Chahar in the squad, Washington Sundar who hasn't even been selected in the reserves, There is of course Jadeja, and Axar Patel and Crunal Pandya...
I am happy for Ashwin, to have made this comeback, mostly based on the continuous strides that he keeps making as a test spinner even at this stage of his career rather than any standout IPL performances, but I would rather see him selected for the next test match, than playing in the T-20 WC.

I think the mauling that spinners got vs Eng has made selectors look beyond
Chahl who has been figured by batters and the more he gets hit, the flatter, faster and more hittable he gets
Kuldeep who instead of supplementing his flight / loop  with more revs...has regressed
and Washington......is out for his injury and Akshar only because of Washington's injury
So selectors are back to considering Ashwin and Jadeja as their primary spinners

I would have had Shardul in the squad instead of stand-bys....in place of Akshar
Dhawan is out , because Kohli will open now
Iyer should have been in squad instead of Rahul IMO

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:Ravichandran Ashwin, despite being the best test spinner in the world currently, is struggling to make it to the playing 11. However, more than 4 years after it seemed his limited overs international career grounded to a halt, he has been selected in India's squad for the T-20 World Cup! Bizarre! Would have left Ash to focus on tests, not exactly because he can't the do the job with the ball, but for limited overs, there are others who can, who in the overall scheme of things, might be better. Rahul Chahar in the squad, Washington Sundar who hasn't even been selected in the reserves, There is of course Jadeja, and Axar Patel and Crunal Pandya...
I am happy for Ashwin, to have made this comeback, mostly based on the continuous strides that he keeps making as a test spinner even at this stage of his career rather than any standout IPL performances, but I would rather see him selected for the next test match, than playing in the T-20 WC.

I think the mauling that spinners got vs Eng has made selectors look beyond
Chahl who has been figured by batters and the more he gets hit, the flatter, faster and more hittable he gets
Kuldeep who instead of supplementing his flight / loop  with more revs...has regressed
and Washington......is out for his injury and Akshar only because of Washington's injury
So selectors are back to considering Ashwin and Jadeja as their primary spinners

I would have had Shardul in the squad instead of stand-bys....in place of Akshar
Dhawan is out , because Kohli will open now
Iyer should have been in squad instead of Rahul IMO

Rahul's among the best T-20 batters in the country, and would easily make my first team any day. Would have had Shreyas in the squad though, ahead of Kishan. With Rahul around, there is wicketkeeping cover for Pant. Did they leave out Washington basedon his injury? If so fair enough, thouth I did read he should be fit by the time the tournament comes around. Perhaps his schedule is taking longer than expected, perhaps they wouldn't want to take him cold into the tournament. But if he's playing and missing out on the WC, think that will be a pity...
Completely agree on Kuldeep, he was the next great spinner in waiting after Ashwin, but the lad has completely lost the plot. Will take a remarkable turnaround for him to make it back to the top level on a consistent basis. A left-arm legspinner is a rarity and with a few decent domestic/IPL performances, he might continue to get opportunities, but he would need a serious turnaround to reestablish himself at the top level in any formats.
As for Chahal, I am still a bit surprised, even when he was becoming more hittable, he was taking wickets...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Well I do see that Buttler has been confirmed back in, so I think the right call has easily been made there.

I like Moeen, but really not sure why he's playing again at this point. I'm hardly Jack Leach's biggest fan, but it will be a genuine travesty and stain on Silverwood's CV if he doesn't play even a game this summer. How are we even further away from knowing if he can play as a spinner in non-subcontinental conditions than we were this time last year? It's absolutely baffling, bordering on disgraceful, the way he's been treated by Silverwood and co. (my Silverwood rant is waiting for after the final test, but the bloke is seemingly evidently useless imo)

It is the call the Buttler fan club wanted : whether it is the right call will depend on whether or not Jos can summon some of last year's form. For whatever reason , he never looked like making runs in the first three games. Jonny , while he didn't convert any of his starts into a big score , consistently came in with the innings in some disrepair and proceeded to stabilize things in partnerships with Root - and Pope in the later match. If they are three or four down again early England might miss his fighting , if somewhat Denley-esque , contributions...

Don't get me wrong : I agree there is a case for having Buttler back in. Regardless of current form , he arguably has some credit in the bank , and is obviously a well regarded figure in the dressing room. And certainly nothing recently wrong with his keeping. Not sure though that this equates to quite the open and shut issue that some would have it be ; and I think Bairstow can consider himself a little unlucky to be squeezed out at a time when he was actually looking pretty good at the crease and going some way to justifying his own recall.

Anyway, the decision has been made.  Hopefully Jos will turn his form around with a score at Old Trafford : he has produced before at times when his place seemed under some threat... may happen again.

As for the Moeen > Leach choice I absolutely give up ...

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Well I do see that Buttler has been confirmed back in, so I think the right call has easily been made there.

I like Moeen, but really not sure why he's playing again at this point. I'm hardly Jack Leach's biggest fan, but it will be a genuine travesty and stain on Silverwood's CV if he doesn't play even a game this summer. How are we even further away from knowing if he can play as a spinner in non-subcontinental conditions than we were this time last year? It's absolutely baffling, bordering on disgraceful, the way he's been treated by Silverwood and co. (my Silverwood rant is waiting for after the final test, but the bloke is seemingly evidently useless imo)

It is the call the Buttler fan club wanted : whether it is the right call will depend on whether or not Jos can summon some of last year's form. For whatever reason , he never looked like making runs in the first three games. Jonny , while he didn't convert any of his starts into a big score , consistently came in with the innings in some disrepair and proceeded to stabilize things in partnerships with Root - and Pope in the later match. If they are three or four down again early England might miss his fighting , if somewhat Denley-esque , contributions...

Don't get me wrong : I agree there is a case for having Buttler back in. Regardless of current form , he arguably has some credit in the bank , and is obviously a well regarded figure in the dressing room. And certainly nothing recently wrong with his keeping. Not sure though that this equates to quite the open and shut issue that some would have it be ; and I think Bairstow can consider himself a little unlucky to be squeezed out at a time when he was actually looking pretty good at the crease and going some way to justifying his own recall.

Anyway, the decision has been made.  Hopefully Jos will turn his form around with a score at Old Trafford : he has produced before at times when his place seemed under some threat... may happen again.

As for the Moeen > Leach choice I absolutely give up ...

Looking at the quality or the lack of it in England's batting reserves, Joe Denly doesn't now seem like the daftest of choices does he? He was only one of the 20-Somethings, but at least he played out 100 balls in an innings more times than the rest of the T-Something Gang have often managed across a series.

I haven't minded Bairstow's contribution this series. Wasn't a fan of him being recalled, but he has made alterations to his technique and, in Denly-esque fashion, has made five decent starts in seven innings this summer v India without ever kicking on to a big score. He's always threatened a sizable contribution, but never quite delivered.

The obsession with Buttler as a test player from the selectors is, quite frankly, embarrassing. He's been given a tremendous level of chances, often bats in his preferred position, and is still averaging 33 after 52 tests (lower than Bairstow!). Buttler is never going to be a quality test-level batsman, despite the occasional innings of quality, though it seems he's an automatic pick every time.

Anyway it will be Buttler for tomorrow.

The main news of the day is the T20 World Cup squad and whether Stokes will be in it.

msp83 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:Ravichandran Ashwin, despite being the best test spinner in the world currently, is struggling to make it to the playing 11. However, more than 4 years after it seemed his limited overs international career grounded to a halt, he has been selected in India's squad for the T-20 World Cup! Bizarre! Would have left Ash to focus on tests, not exactly because he can't the do the job with the ball, but for limited overs, there are others who can, who in the overall scheme of things, might be better. Rahul Chahar in the squad, Washington Sundar who hasn't even been selected in the reserves, There is of course Jadeja, and Axar Patel and Crunal Pandya...
I am happy for Ashwin, to have made this comeback, mostly based on the continuous strides that he keeps making as a test spinner even at this stage of his career rather than any standout IPL performances, but I would rather see him selected for the next test match, than playing in the T-20 WC.

I think the mauling that spinners got vs Eng has made selectors look beyond
Chahl who has been figured by batters and the more he gets hit, the flatter, faster and more hittable he gets
Kuldeep who instead of supplementing his flight / loop  with more revs...has regressed
and Washington......is out for his injury and Akshar only because of Washington's injury
So selectors are back to considering Ashwin and Jadeja as their primary spinners

I would have had Shardul in the squad instead of stand-bys....in place of Akshar
Dhawan is out , because Kohli will open now
Iyer should have been in squad instead of Rahul IMO

Rahul's among the best T-20 batters in the country, and would easily make my first team any day. Would have had Shreyas in the squad though, ahead of Kishan. With Rahul around, there   is wicketkeeping cover for Pant. Did they leave out Washington basedon his injury? If so fair enough, thouth I did read he should be fit by the time the tournament comes around. Perhaps his schedule is taking longer than expected, perhaps they wouldn't want to take him cold into the tournament. But if he's playing and missing out on the WC, think that will be a pity...
Completely agree on Kuldeep, he was the next great spinner in waiting after Ashwin, but the lad has completely lost the plot. Will take a remarkable turnaround for him to make it back to the top level on a consistent basis. A left-arm legspinner is a rarity and with a few decent domestic/IPL performances, he might continue to get opportunities, but he would need a serious turnaround to reestablish himself at the top level in any formats.
As for Chahal, I am still a bit surprised, even when he was becoming more hittable, he was taking wickets...

Washington is not playing the IPL for sure& I think that's their cut off....if you are not fit by IPL....we cannot take chance with you in Wcup
I agree Rahul could be the 2nd WK and have Shreyas in squad

I have little hope left with Chahal....his temperament is not good...the moment he is hit...he goes fast and flat....forgoes his flight, forgets his googly....and is then cannon fodder

Kuldeep's I also agree with you gotta go back to FC cricket.....get his loop and fizz back.....add more fizz/ revs without foregoing the loop...and for that he needs to work on shoulder fitness
He has age on his side and can take a year to two and still make a comeback

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:Ravichandran Ashwin, despite being the best test spinner in the world currently, is struggling to make it to the playing 11. However, more than 4 years after it seemed his limited overs international career grounded to a halt, he has been selected in India's squad for the T-20 World Cup! Bizarre! Would have left Ash to focus on tests, not exactly because he can't the do the job with the ball, but for limited overs, there are others who can, who in the overall scheme of things, might be better. Rahul Chahar in the squad, Washington Sundar who hasn't even been selected in the reserves, There is of course Jadeja, and Axar Patel and Crunal Pandya...
I am happy for Ashwin, to have made this comeback, mostly based on the continuous strides that he keeps making as a test spinner even at this stage of his career rather than any standout IPL performances, but I would rather see him selected for the next test match, than playing in the T-20 WC.

I think the mauling that spinners got vs Eng has made selectors look beyond
Chahl who has been figured by batters and the more he gets hit, the flatter, faster and more hittable he gets
Kuldeep who instead of supplementing his flight / loop  with more revs...has regressed
and Washington......is out for his injury and Akshar only because of Washington's injury
So selectors are back to considering Ashwin and Jadeja as their primary spinners

I would have had Shardul in the squad instead of stand-bys....in place of Akshar
Dhawan is out , because Kohli will open now
Iyer should have been in squad instead of Rahul IMO

Rahul's among the best T-20 batters in the country, and would easily make my first team any day. Would have had Shreyas in the squad though, ahead of Kishan. With Rahul around, there   is wicketkeeping cover for Pant. Did they leave out Washington basedon his injury? If so fair enough, thouth I did read he should be fit by the time the tournament comes around. Perhaps his schedule is taking longer than expected, perhaps they wouldn't want to take him cold into the tournament. But if he's playing and missing out on the WC, think that will be a pity...
Completely agree on Kuldeep, he was the next great spinner in waiting after Ashwin, but the lad has completely lost the plot. Will take a remarkable turnaround for him to make it back to the top level on a consistent basis. A left-arm legspinner is a rarity and with a few decent domestic/IPL performances, he might continue to get opportunities, but he would need a serious turnaround to reestablish himself at the top level in any formats.
As for Chahal, I am still a bit surprised, even when he was becoming more hittable, he was taking wickets...

Washington is not playing the IPL for sure& I think that's their cut off....if you are not fit by IPL....we cannot take chance with you in Wcup
I agree Rahul could be the 2nd WK and have Shreyas in squad

I have little hope left with Chahal....his temperament is not good...the moment he is hit...he goes fast and flat....forgoes his flight, forgets his googly....and is then cannon fodder

Kuldeep's I also agree with you gotta go back to FC cricket.....get his loop and fizz back.....add more fizz/ revs without foregoing the loop...and for that he needs to work on shoulder fitness
He has age on his side and can take a year to two and still make a comeback

Kuldeep, if he can't find his way back, will be a loss to the game. Seemed to be full of promise. To comeback from such a low, would take a great temperament and seriously good attitude. Lets see if he's got it... Of the promising 2014 U-19 batch, Unmukt Chand has moved to USA after never quite kicking on at the senior level. He and Kuldeep were the most promising of that lot along with Baba Aparajith who hasn't gone far beyond his Ranji side unlike what was felt at the time. Hope Kuldeep will find his way back, and by the time Ashwin hangs up his boots, Kuldeep will be ready to take over...

ANI
@ANI
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43s
#ENGvIND, 5th Test - Team India's training cancelled as a support staff member tests positive for #COVID19: BCCI sources

So far its support staff(s) only
I am wondering what happens if a player in the squad is found positive tomm morning
then all who were in contact with him ...presumably players who are likely to be in the playing 11 would have to also go in isolation
I see some chances of the game being called off

Will imagine the test won't happen if India have had to cancel training. Presumably that would be the end of the series and very convenient for India.

https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/ind-vs-eng-5th-test-in-doubt-after-india-support-staff-tests-positive-for-covid-19-7498946/

Duty281 wrote:Will imagine the test won't happen if India have had to cancel training. Presumably that would be the end of the series and very convenient for India.

Rain and Corona save Eng from a 4_1 ignominy

I did wonder about this once the team management caught it. This really is looking doubtful, and I don't see how it can be 2-1 to India as the final result, so no idea what will happen if its called off

Match forfeiture and 2-2 final score would seem the most sensible thing.

I did read something about the BCCI being worried about impacts on the IPL. If that's a driver behind any cancellation then I'd definitely go 2-2 as the result. We could even see a farcical situation where there's a positive during the Test, which is then called off without being completed. Last Test match to be called of during the game would be when Pakistan refused to play in 2006?

given the sentiment
I think ECB & British govt should allow the game to be played
not forcing the isolation criteria, as prevalent in UK now

As regards covid and county games this season, there seems - at least on the surface - to have been an inconsistent approach by the ECB with an insistence that some games be played and some be called off. Certainly, their comms have left much to be desired.

guildfordbat wrote:As regards covid and county games this season, there seems - at least on the surface - to have been an inconsistent approach by the ECB with an insistence that some games be played and some be called off. Certainly, their comms have left much to be desired.

I should think the ECB's approach to this match will be fairly consistent - whatever saves the £££££££££££££

Soul Requiem wrote:Match forfeiture and 2-2 final score would seem the most sensible thing.

Seriously ? I don't honestly think you can award a result against a team just because they are unfortunate enough to contract the wretched virus - least of all in the other teams' country !

If the game has to be called off it has to be abandoned as a draw , surely. Next WTC points and all.

Be a pity if that is the case : though it might save England from an embarrassing final mauling and a couple of their bowlers from fatigue induced injuries ...

At least it would save me from any more disastrous scores in the Tipping Competition

alfie wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Match forfeiture and 2-2 final score would seem the most sensible thing.

Seriously ?   I don't honestly think you can award a result against a team just because they are unfortunate enough to contract the wretched virus - least of all in the other teams' country !

If the game has to be called off it has to be abandoned as a draw , surely.  Next WTC points and all.

Be a pity if that is the case  :  though it might save England from an embarrassing final mauling and a couple of their bowlers from fatigue induced injuries ...

At least it would save me from any more disastrous scores in the Tipping Competition  

There's no other result it can be, if England are able to play and India are not.

Soul Requiem wrote:

alfie wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Match forfeiture and 2-2 final score would seem the most sensible thing.

Seriously ?   I don't honestly think you can award a result against a team just because they are unfortunate enough to contract the wretched virus - least of all in the other teams' country !

If the game has to be called off it has to be abandoned as a draw , surely.  Next WTC points and all.

Be a pity if that is the case  :  though it might save England from an embarrassing final mauling and a couple of their bowlers from fatigue induced injuries ...

At least it would save me from any more disastrous scores in the Tipping Competition  

There's no other result it can be, if England are able to play and India are not.

Better hope it gets played then ; because claiming a drawn series like that would be more embarrassing than actually losing 3-1.

What about a hundred balls per side game instead, to minimise contact between players, but get some kind of game played?

alfie wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Match forfeiture and 2-2 final score would seem the most sensible thing.

Seriously ?   I don't honestly think you can award a result against a team just because they are unfortunate enough to contract the wretched virus - least of all in the other teams' country !

If the game has to be called off it has to be abandoned as a draw , surely.  Next WTC points and all.

Be a pity if that is the case  :  though it might save England from an embarrassing final mauling and a couple of their bowlers from fatigue induced injuries ...

At least it would save me from any more disastrous scores in the Tipping Competition  

By the Forfeiting Logic being propagated here
Jdizzle should forfeit his position in Tipping Competition ....because he is leading

VTR wrote:What about a hundred balls per side game instead, to minimise contact between players, but get some kind of game played?

Would probably require 5 ball overs but that'd help the over rates.

Maybe bowl two overs from one end as to speed things up further.

I think you're onto something here, chum.

king_carlos wrote:

VTR wrote:What about a hundred balls per side game instead, to minimise contact between players, but get some kind of game played?

Would probably require 5 ball overs but that'd help the over rates.

Maybe bowl two overs from one end as to speed things up further.

I think you're onto something here, chum.

What do you reckon about letting each bowler have up to 20 deliveries, and bowling sets of either 5 or 10?

Some fielding restrictions?

Playing a women's game first (although I don't think the Idian women's team is in England currently)?

dummy_half wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

VTR wrote:What about a hundred balls per side game instead, to minimise contact between players, but get some kind of game played?

Would probably require 5 ball overs but that'd help the over rates.

Maybe bowl two overs from one end as to speed things up further.

I think you're onto something here, chum.

What do you reckon about letting each bowler have up to 20 deliveries, and bowling sets of either 5 or 10?

Some fielding restrictions?

Playing a women's game first (although I don't think the Idian women's team is in England currently)?

Genius, absolute genius.

Just need a subtle marketing campaign now.