England's Summer of Cricket 2021

First topic message reminder :

That's the important wicket. Deserved for Robinson and England.

Now into that brittle middle order.

All jokes aside I'm actually massively in favour of more cricketing adopting changing ends less frequently. It came before the Hundred as well.

The cricket club I play for in Edinburgh just has one ground but 7 senior teams out most weekends (5 mens, 1 womens and a mixed development) so uses a lot of outgrounds which are often shared sporting facilities. Last year when the season started late due to restrictions there was a massive rush for those facilities so we struggled to get pitches. To squeeze as many games as possible out of our own ground we played games by only changing ends once an innings. 25 overs from one end, 25 overs from the other, change innings and repeat. It sped up matches no end and had a noticeable improvement in retention of players who had just left school (where it's very common for cricket to lose players) as it was less of a time commitment. Brilliant and we kept it for this season at many levels.

I don't think Test cricket should bowl 25 overs at a time from one end but I'd be in favour of trialing 4 or 5 over stints before a change of ends in the County Championship.

If there is any squad member returning a positive result, calling the series off would be the only way.
Saw some ludicrous comments about the match being awarded to England and so on. Can someone remind me what happened to England South Africa series? Who were awarded the unplayed games?

Will be a pity if the game has to be called off. At the moment, chances of the test going ahead, seems remote unfortunately.

msp83 wrote:If there is any squad member returning a positive result, calling the series off would be the only way.
Saw some ludicrous comments about the match being awarded to England and so on. Can someone remind me what happened to England South Africa series? Who were awarded the unplayed games?

That series didn't even start, hardly a valid comparison. Don't think anyone saying the match might be awarded to England is a ludicrous comment, it's a possible outcome

VTR wrote:

msp83 wrote:If there is any squad member returning a positive result, calling the series off would be the only way.
Saw some ludicrous comments about the match being awarded to England and so on. Can someone remind me what happened to England South Africa series? Who were awarded the unplayed games?

That series didn't even start, hardly a valid comparison. Don't think anyone saying the match might be awarded to England is a ludicrous comment, it's a possible outcome

Would England be ready to risk any of their players/staff/spectators getting infected due to coming in close contact with any players in the Indian camp? On what exact basis should the match be awarded to England? As far as the SA tour was concerned, the teams were all assembled, the first ODI was first postponed, then canceled, before the entire series had to be postponed. Might as well have awarded all those games to South Africa, their WC direct qualification would have been easier.
But right in the middle of the pandemic, this is always a possible with any series. It just happened that the infections are right now in the Indian camp. It could be England tomorrow. If people have the most basic understanding of what is really going on in the world as far as the pandemic is concerned, wouldn't come up with such ridiculous ideas.
The priority in such a scenario should be the wellbeing of players and all other stakeholders, nothing else.

Cricinfo's match preview is hopeful, that an outright cancelation may not happen.

More Good? news. The chances of England having to resort to something sneaky to have a share of the series have taken a hit, as the entire India squad have been tested negative for Covid-19. If England are to have a share of the series, they will have to earn it, it seems. https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/eng-vs-ind-5th-test-2021-manchester-test-prospects-brighten-entire-india-squad-tests-negative-1277117

msp83 wrote:More Good? news. The chances of England having to resort to something sneaky to have a share of the series have taken a hit, as the entire India squad have been tested negative for Covid-19. If England are to have a share of the series, they will have to earn it, it seems. https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/eng-vs-ind-5th-test-2021-manchester-test-prospects-brighten-entire-india-squad-tests-negative-1277117

I accept we post anonymously but I feel confident in saying that Chris Silverwood and Joe Root probably aren't posting on 606v2 so probably a bit of leap to suggest that the England team were trying to attempt something conceited...

Jos Buttler wrote:"At present we're preparing to play tomorrow - fingers crossed the game will go ahead," he said.

"We don't know too much to be honest. It would be naive to speculate too much on stuff I don't know about.

"Things are all fine in our camp - we trained well this morning."

As far as I'm aware the sum total of response from the England camp. If that's trying something sneaky then this coup is very subtle indeed.

VTR wrote:

msp83 wrote:If there is any squad member returning a positive result, calling the series off would be the only way.
Saw some ludicrous comments about the match being awarded to England and so on. Can someone remind me what happened to England South Africa series? Who were awarded the unplayed games?

That series didn't even start, hardly a valid comparison. Don't think anyone saying the match might be awarded to England is a ludicrous comment, it's a possible outcome

ECB has failed to provide a Covid Bubble to the visitors
The Virus is contracted on English soil therefore ECB has 2 options

1- To let go their Covid Isolation protocols should any one in Indians squad be positive
OR
2-ECB forfeits and Ind will sadly accept 3-1 although they would have much preferred to play and win

msp83 wrote:More Good? news. The chances of England having to resort to something sneaky to have a share of the series have taken a hit, as the entire India squad have been tested negative for Covid-19. If England are to have a share of the series, they will have to earn it, it seems. https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/eng-vs-ind-5th-test-2021-manchester-test-prospects-brighten-entire-india-squad-tests-negative-1277117

I have a feeling that ECB might have gotten the PCR results fudged to force play a test match
and they will not run another test in 5 days of the game also I think
So we may have infected zombies spitting saliva on the ball .......all 30 in both squads umnpires, catering staff will come out positive eventually
ohhh my gaawd ECB might have triggered the onset of a new wave on this planet

king_carlos wrote:

msp83 wrote:More Good? news. The chances of England having to resort to something sneaky to have a share of the series have taken a hit, as the entire India squad have been tested negative for Covid-19. If England are to have a share of the series, they will have to earn it, it seems. https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/eng-vs-ind-5th-test-2021-manchester-test-prospects-brighten-entire-india-squad-tests-negative-1277117

I accept we post anonymously but I feel confident in saying that Chris Silverwood and Joe Root probably aren't posting on 606v2 so probably a bit of leap to suggest that the England team were trying to attempt something conceited...

Jos Buttler wrote:"At present we're preparing to play tomorrow - fingers crossed the game will go ahead," he said.

"We don't know too much to be honest. It would be naive to speculate too much on stuff I don't know about.

"Things are all fine in our camp - we trained well this morning."

As far as I'm aware the sum total of response from the England camp. If that's trying something sneaky then this coup is very subtle indeed.

I know, Carlos. Didn't exactly imply that the English management was actually trying something of that kind. The possibility of attempting something of that kind, as some here seem to have wanted, it is the possibility... Was just responding to that pathetic little suggestion.
Anyways, both boards aren't so foolish to have tried anything of that sort, that's why if there would have been any squad case this close to the game, canceling would have been the option that they would have gone for regardless of how some of us would have wanted a different, sneaky little nonsense instead.

Well I definitely agree with welfare being a priority. I'm not saying I want the game to be awarded to England, just saying it could happen if India have to withdraw from the game. Bio bubble is not the same concept as last year so really not comparable. There's no precedent for this, so we'll just have to see what happens

VTR wrote:Well I definitely agree with welfare being a priority. I'm not saying I want the game to be awarded to England, just saying it could happen if India have to withdraw from the game. Bio bubble is not the same concept as last year so really not comparable. There's no precedent for this, so we'll just have to see what happens

If India agree to play with players who may be close contacts of infected and with a serious risk of being infected themselves, would the ECB want the game to go ahead? Would all English players be comfortable with that? Will the British Government permit that? If the answer to any of these questions would be no, why should the game be awarded to England?
The situation with Covid is such, that its not really about one team withdrawing. It will have an impact on everyone involved, everyone will have to take decision. And all this is basic common sense.

Anyways on the actual possible cricket, cricinfo's preview also hinted, that Rohit Sharma, Cheteshwar Pujara, Ravindra Jadeja and Mohammed Siraj are all feeling the aftereffects of a long series to varying degree. They speculated that Mayank Agarwal can step in for Rohit if needed, and Vihari for Pujara. And interestingly, they mentioned Axar Patel as a replace for Jadeja. I will be absolutely appalled if Axar comes in for Jadeja. He can do that when Jadeja is the 2nd spinner. Axar is a poor man's Jadeja... But when R Ashwin's on the bench, there is no way Axar is replacing Jadeja! The current version of Ashwin, or Axar Patel are as good as Jadeja with the bat. But Ashwin has more than 2500 test runs and 5 centuries. Even in the recently concluded home series against England in which both Axar and Ashwin played, Ashwin had emerged as the better bat. Hope its really nothing, Jadeja will be fit and ready to go. Also hopeful that Rohit and Pujara will also be fine. Shami/Ashwin for Siraj, Suryakumar for Rahane will be the changes I'd make. And if Jadeja needs to be replaced, Ashwin comes in for him, and Shami for Siraj.

msp83 wrote: As far as the SA tour was concerned, the teams were all assembled, the first ODI was first postponed, then canceled, before the entire series had to be postponed. Might as well have awarded all those games to South Africa, their WC direct qualification would have been easier.

Why would that be awarded to South Africa - it was originally a South African testing positive that caused the first postponement!

Anyway, sounds like the game is going ahead. Probable teams:

England (probable): 1 Rory Burns, 2 Haseeb Hameed, 3 Dawid Malan, 4 Joe Root (capt), 5 Ollie Pope, 6 Jos Buttler (wk), 7 Moeen Ali, 8 Chris Woakes, 9 Ollie Robinson, 10 Mark Wood, 11 James Anderson.

Leach only playing if there's two spinners. Wood in for Overton. Anderson and/or Robinson may be rested but for now that seems unlikely.

India (probable): 1 KL Rahul, 2 Rohit Sharma/Mayank Agarwal, 3 Cheteshwar Pujara, 4 Virat Kohli (capt), 5 Ajinkya Rahane/Hanuma Vihari, 6 Rishabh Pant (wk), 7 Ravindra Jadeja/Axar Patel, 8 Shardul Thakur, 9 R Ashwin, 10 Mohammed Shami/Mohammad Siraj, 11 Umesh Yadav

India's team is a guessing game with an injury/fitness cloud hanging over most of their seamers and uncertainty about the balance of their side. Rahane may also pay the price for his prolonged poor form.

Can't see India resting Bumrah unless has an injury. Yes he's going to be key for the T-20 WC, and will be playing the rest of the IPL in between, but for such a high stakes battle, think India would want to have their led quick available. If by any chance Bumrah has any injury concern and can't play, then R Ashwin of course should play. Ashwin for Bumrah, Shami for Siraj.

All reports are indicating that Rahane might get one more game. If that's the case, I would really hope he finds his way back, but at the moment he seems to even understand where his next run would come from. With Kohli and Pujara not on top form, and the overdependence putting more pressure on the openers, think they can't afford a failing Rahane for too long.

msp83 wrote:

VTR wrote:Well I definitely agree with welfare being a priority. I'm not saying I want the game to be awarded to England, just saying it could happen if India have to withdraw from the game. Bio bubble is not the same concept as last year so really not comparable. There's no precedent for this, so we'll just have to see what happens

If India agree to play with players who may be close contacts of infected and with a serious risk of being infected themselves, would the ECB want the game to go ahead? Would all English players be comfortable with that? Will the British Government permit that? If the answer to any of these questions would be no, why should the game be awarded to England?
The situation with Covid is such, that its not really about one team withdrawing. It will have an impact on everyone involved, everyone will have to take decision. And all this is basic common sense.

I was only ever talking about the scenarios where India withdraw because a player Tests positive, or withdraw to not put the IPL at risk. Agree there's a whole load of other scenarios, with then a range of possible outcomes each. A minefield, so let's hope we get this game in just in the nick of time, and there's no farce of it being called off on day 2 or something

VTR wrote:

msp83 wrote:

VTR wrote:Well I definitely agree with welfare being a priority. I'm not saying I want the game to be awarded to England, just saying it could happen if India have to withdraw from the game. Bio bubble is not the same concept as last year so really not comparable. There's no precedent for this, so we'll just have to see what happens

If India agree to play with players who may be close contacts of infected and with a serious risk of being infected themselves, would the ECB want the game to go ahead? Would all English players be comfortable with that? Will the British Government permit that? If the answer to any of these questions would be no, why should the game be awarded to England?
The situation with Covid is such, that its not really about one team withdrawing. It will have an impact on everyone involved, everyone will have to take decision. And all this is basic common sense.

I was only ever talking about the scenarios where India withdraw because a player Tests positive, or withdraw to not put the IPL at risk. Agree there's a whole load of other scenarios, with then a range of possible outcomes each. A minefield, so let's hope we get this game in just in the nick of time, and there's no farce of it being called off on day 2 or something

Yes, lets hope things go well, though the danger of the game getting called off prior to start or even in between, unfortunately continues to be a real one.

msp83 wrote:Anyways on the actual possible cricket, cricinfo's preview also hinted, that Rohit Sharma, Cheteshwar Pujara, Ravindra Jadeja and Mohammed Siraj are all feeling the aftereffects of a long series to varying degree. They speculated that Mayank Agarwal can step in for Rohit if needed, and Vihari for Pujara. And interestingly, they mentioned Axar Patel as a replace for Jadeja. I will be absolutely appalled if Axar comes in for Jadeja. He can do that when Jadeja is the 2nd spinner. Axar is a poor man's Jadeja... But when R Ashwin's on the bench, there is no way Axar is replacing Jadeja! The current version of Ashwin, or Axar Patel are as good as Jadeja with the bat. But Ashwin has more than 2500 test runs and 5 centuries. Even in the recently concluded home series against England in which both Axar and Ashwin played, Ashwin had emerged as the better bat. Hope its really nothing, Jadeja will be fit and ready to go. Also hopeful that Rohit and Pujara will also be fine. Shami/Ashwin for Siraj, Suryakumar for Rahane will be the changes I'd make. And if Jadeja needs to be replaced, Ashwin comes in for him, and Shami for Siraj.

msp...If all those players are rested.....I would be convinced they have tested positive or are showing symptoms

Any absolute last minute contingency apart, the test seems to be on track at the moment.

ANI Digital
@ani_digital
·
2m
Eng vs Ind: Fifth Test in Manchester not starting on Friday, decision on game after more test results come in

This is all looking very unlikely. What about people who have travelled this morning, to now find there's no game today? Not the biggest concern I the wider context, but just make a decision either way for the good of all concerned

As I wrote yesterday, it defies the laws of biology and physics if the entire team was massaged & treated by the assistant Physio
and none of them are positive now¨

It defies logic & humanitarianism if ECB puts any kind of pressure on BCCI to go ahead with the game forcing the latter to put infected players on the ground

Well this is weird...

Cricinfo carrying the story but I find nothing yet on BBC : maybe their reporters don't get up early enough in the morning ?

Maybe best if it rains in true Manchester style and saves everyone the trouble of worrying about it

alfie wrote:Well this is weird...

Cricinfo carrying the story but I find nothing yet on BBC : maybe their reporters don't get up  early enough in the morning ?

Maybe best if it rains in true Manchester style and saves everyone the trouble of worrying about it

Look at Michael Vaugh's tweets quoting telegraph

Yes seems like they're going to try to defer the start of the test to tomorrow, and have another round of testing on the Indian players today.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Yes seems like they're going to try to defer the start of the test to tomorrow, and have another round of testing on the Indian players today.

So was the news that all Indian players tested negative yesterday was fake
OR
they are taking new tests today
& If so....why
and If so what if some players are found positive.....all players were practicing together
and if not found positive today. will they test players tomm and every day of the test

and if so....what if they find a player positive after the start of the test

Think they are going the way the recent Pakistan ODI series in the West Indies went, postponing the schedule to try and ensure a safe enough environment. It is inconvenient, but makes sense under the circumstances. The assistant physio getting infected, is a serious enough concern, and the possibilities of players getting infected is real. So doing one more round of testing is the best available option.
However, if only they could streamline the decision making process and make it work fast enough, a lot of logistical troubles could be avoided.

alfie wrote:Well this is weird...

Cricinfo carrying the story but I find nothing yet on BBC : maybe their reporters don't get up  early enough in the morning ?

Maybe best if it rains in true Manchester style and saves everyone the trouble of worrying about it

It is currently raining in Manchester!

KP_fan wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Yes seems like they're going to try to defer the start of the test to tomorrow, and have another round of testing on the Indian players today.

So was the news that all Indian players tested negative yesterday was fake
OR
they are taking new tests today
& If so....why
and If so what if some players are found positive.....all players were practicing together
and if not found positive today. will they test players tomm and every day of the test

and if so....what if they find a player positive after the start of the test

Think yesterday's test results would have been fine. But as the Covid timeline can mean the infections taking effect in a few days, regular tests for those who have come in primary contact is very much in order.
Seems they are taking another round of tests.
Think they should keep testing the players every day.
And if there are any positive cases during the test, call the game off
Also, they should refund the tickets and don't let spectators in I feel.
Don't know fully about the vaccination scenario in the UK, seems better than many other parts of the world. But they should at the very least, limit the crowds.

Boria Majumdar
@BoriaMajumdar
·
7m
ECB sources match called off. I think it’s gone.

you can follow this guy
His source(s) are one and only Saurav Ganguly presdient of BCCI releasing information thru Boria that he himself cannot

The problem with all this testing seems to me to be that people who have been in contact often return negative results one day and then turn up positive a day or two later. What happens if they clear the players ; start tomorrow ; and then find a couple of players already involved in the game positive two days into the game ?

KP_fan wrote:Boria Majumdar
@BoriaMajumdar
·
7m
ECB sources match called off. I think it’s gone.

you can follow this guy
His source(s)  are one and only Saurav  Ganguly  presdient of BCCI releasing information thru Boria that he himself cannot

Not that we need one, but this entire scenario is a stark reminder of the kind of world that we live in. The bloody pandemic is just everywhere, and we still, are rather helpless against this invisible enemy.

Yup I do not see a safe way within the Covid Protocols for this game to start

Test officially cancelled.

Following ongoing conversations with the BCCI, the ECB can confirm that the fifth LV= Insurance Test between England and India Men due to start today at Emirates Old Trafford, will be cancelled.

Due to fears of a further increase in the number of COVID cases inside the camp, India are regrettably unable to field a team.

We send our sincere apologies to fans and partners for this news, which we know will cause immense disappointment and inconvenience to many.

Further information will be shared in due course.

Should be a 2-2 series, but doubt it will be. India players tested negative but don't want to play due to the IPL - they've forfeited, essentially.

BBC News (UK) Retweeted
Test Match Special
@bbctms
·
1m
BREAKING NEWS:

The 5th Test at Old Trafford has been called off.

alfie wrote:The problem with all this testing seems to me to be that people who have been in contact often return negative results one day and then turn up positive a day or two later. What happens if they clear the players ;  start tomorrow  ; and then find a couple of players already involved in the game positive two days into the game ?

That is a real possibility. They can take the risk and try and go ahead, with the understanding that the match will have to be called off if there are any positive cases.
Or they can decide to call the game off under the circumstances. Will be a shame, but not sure there are too many options...

India have forfeited apparently so 2-2 it ends. Sad end to a great series, shame we didn't get the finish

GSC wrote:India have forfeited apparently so 2-2 it ends. Sad end to a great series, shame we didn't get the finish

That's the right thing to do. Thought the BCCI would put pressure on and it would end (very unjustifiably) as an Indian series win.

Duty281 wrote:Test officially cancelled.

Following ongoing conversations with the BCCI, the ECB can confirm that the fifth LV= Insurance Test between England and India Men due to start today at Emirates Old Trafford, will be cancelled.

Due to fears of a further increase in the number of COVID cases inside the camp, India are regrettably unable to field a team.

We send our sincere apologies to fans and partners for this news, which we know will cause immense disappointment and inconvenience to many.

Further information will be shared in due course.

Should be a 2-2 series, but doubt it will be. India players tested negative but don't want to play due to the IPL - they've forfeited, essentially.

England manage to get away with a 2-1 series instead of a 4-1 thrashing because of Rain and Covid. In fact, had India batted a little better as they very well could have at Headingly, capitalized on that last wicket partnership between Ishant Sharma and Mohammed Siraj that made nearly 16 percent of their runs, and then batted out day 4 that they should have done on the back of a good performance from Pujara and Rohit, it could have been 5-0 or 4-0. The great England Escape!
This is another alternative to the delusional scenario!

GSC wrote:India have forfeited apparently so 2-2 it ends. Sad end to a great series, shame we didn't get the finish

yes face by draconian Talibanik pressure to put lives of Indians, English players, support staff and viewing fans at risk for the sake of just a game

The Indians did the right thing in Human cause to forfeit the game

KP_fan wrote:

GSC wrote:India have forfeited apparently so 2-2 it ends. Sad end to a great series, shame we didn't get the finish

yes face by draconian Talibanik pressure to put lives of Indians, English players, support staff and viewing fans at risk for the sake of just a game

The Indians did the right thing in Human cause to forfeit the game

Even by your low standards, that's quite a disgusting comment.

KP_fan wrote:

GSC wrote:India have forfeited apparently so 2-2 it ends. Sad end to a great series, shame we didn't get the finish

yes face by draconian Talibanik pressure to put lives of Indians, English players, support staff and viewing fans at risk for the sake of just a game

The Indians did the right thing in Human cause to forfeit the game

I think comparing this to the Taliban is going just a bit far, even by your standards. None of us know what the discussions were, and whether anyone was under pressure.

Even if it means England get a share of the series without really earning it, this is the right call. No need to take unnecessary risks with people's lives and wellbeing. Its after all a game. And on the basis of this unearned win if England becomes world test champs, then so be it...

Sorry msp, but the 2-2 now appears to be a factual outcome, not a delusional scenario. I don't disagree that India were likely robbed of a famous series victory and understand the emotion around it. England are not Zimbabwe though, so an Indian win was not guaranteed,  sadly we will never know what the result would have been

Any one who wants to take a 2-2 scoreline has to live this and similar comments
Well done India
Shame on those who forced a Forfeiture at the cost of their own players , citizens

Apparently India haven't (yet) forfeited and the fifth test may be played some time next summer.

KP_fan wrote:Any one who wants to take a 2-2 scoreline has to live this and similar comments
Well done India
Shame on those who forced a Forfeiture at the cost of their own players , citizens  

So we now have to put up with years of your conjecture stated as fact. Thanks for the warning anyway