England's Summer of Cricket 2021

First topic message reminder :

That's the important wicket. Deserved for Robinson and England.

Now into that brittle middle order.

Not being able to ensure the safety of those who come touring your country to play the series, and you want a sneaky little share of the series!. Sure, have it by all means! Perhaps they should award the series to England for dropping more catches!

VTR wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Any one who wants to take a 2-2 scoreline has to live this and similar comments
Well done India
Shame on those who forced a Forfeiture at the cost of their own players , citizens  

So we now have to put up with years of your conjecture stated as fact. Thanks for the warning anyway

ECB has shamed themselves and cricketing comunity
The pathetic & normally uncouth BCCI has stood up shining in the eyes of greater humanity

How do you know they followed all the protocols, the staff and players haven't been imprisoned. I don't think anyone is celebrating a share of the series. This is a very fast moving situation, so let's see what the facts are, then will be better placed to make a judgement

KP_fan wrote:

VTR wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Any one who wants to take a 2-2 scoreline has to live this and similar comments
Well done India
Shame on those who forced a Forfeiture at the cost of their own players , citizens  

So we now have to put up with years of your conjecture stated as fact. Thanks for the warning anyway

ECB has shamed themselves and cricketing comunity
The pathetic & normally uncouth BCCI has stood up shining in the eyes of greater humanity

More conjecture then. Let's wait for the facts perhaps?

Well officially called off. That settled then.

As for the technical "result" : if it does go down as a forfeited game and a 2-2 series result it is going to all look a bit silly. I suppose the rationale would be that England were prepared to play but India weren't : but that seems to me to be a rather unreasonable way to treat an unfortunate situation arising from the unique times we live in. Would the England players really have been willing to play the match in the knowledge that some of those on the other side were probably infectious ?

And a bit of a joke , frankly. India have morally won the series just as surely as they would have done had rain ruined the last match. To say otherwise is daft.

VTR wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

VTR wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Any one who wants to take a 2-2 scoreline has to live this and similar comments
Well done India
Shame on those who forced a Forfeiture at the cost of their own players , citizens  

So we now have to put up with years of your conjecture stated as fact. Thanks for the warning anyway

ECB has shamed themselves and cricketing comunity
The pathetic & normally uncouth BCCI has stood up shining in the eyes of greater humanity

More conjecture then. Let's wait for the facts perhaps?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/58512624

This is based not on conjecture but BBC stating

England's fifth Test against India at Old Trafford has been cancelled after a number of the tourists' backroom staff tested positive for Covid-19.
India were unable to field a team because they fear further cases spreading through their squad.
India have forfeited the match, meaning the series is drawn 2-2.
A statement from the England and Wales Cricket Board said: "We send our sincere apologies to fans and partners for this news."

Is there is Law in Eng if you cannot attend office& work due to Corona, you are fired and your salary foretasted:shock:

alfie wrote:Well officially called off. That settled then.

As for the technical "result" : if it does go down as a forfeited game and a 2-2 series result it is going to all look a bit silly. I suppose the rationale would be that England were prepared to play but India weren't : but that seems to me to be a rather unreasonable way to treat an unfortunate situation arising from the unique times we live in.  Would the England players really have been willing to play the match in the knowledge that some of those on the other side were probably infectious ?

And a bit of a joke , frankly. India have morally won the series just as surely as they would have done had rain ruined the last match. To say otherwise is daft.

If India's players had contracted Covid, I'd agree with you. But they've chosen not to play in spite of the fact that their entire squad has tested negative. There's no viable reason why they cannot play, they've just chosen not to.

Hence the series should finish 2-2. Whether it actually will or not is another matter.

VTR wrote:How do you know they followed all the protocols, the staff and players haven't been imprisoned. I don't think anyone is celebrating a share of the series. This is a very fast moving situation,  so let's see what the facts are, then will be better placed to make a judgement

If ECB insist on forfeiture, they are doing nothing, but to take advantage of a serious situation in the most despicable manner. Would the British government, really allow India to field possibly infected players, and risk contagion? Are the English players ready to play, risking possibilities of getting infected? Or are sneakily sitting in their, thinking as of now the infection is in the Indian camp, and all that we need to do is to pretend to be read, knowing the Indians won't take that risk? If so, let them live with it... For India, no need to take a risk here, they've been the better team in the series so far, this was a historic opportunity, but there are more important things, and for once, the BCCI is getting their priorities right. Of course they showed they are actually capable of doing it when the postponed and not canceled the IPL, rather than awarding it to CSK at that point. Hopefully, a sensible decision will emerge by the end of the day, but even if the ECB wants to sneak in a share in the series, then let it be...

India have been the better team and having played 4/5 tests they deserve the series at this point.

But if they forfeit because they can't field a team, it has to go down as an England win for precedence I imagine. Don't think thats down to morals or anything else.

You are speculating that the ECB or some English party somehow forced this, there's no evidence of that at this stage

msp83 wrote:

VTR wrote:How do you know they followed all the protocols, the staff and players haven't been imprisoned. I don't think anyone is celebrating a share of the series. This is a very fast moving situation,  so let's see what the facts are, then will be better placed to make a judgement

If ECB insist on forfeiture, they are doing nothing, but to take advantage of a serious situation in the most despicable manner.

Don't complain...lets take the first plane and get out of Afghanistan...before they jail your for catching corona and chop off an arm in punishment

Have to say this topic has taken a bit of a strange turn. Can't really see a conspiracy here, if India can't field a team due to covid concerns they have to forfeit the game. Don't think the ECB are really involved in this, they stand to lose more financially by missing an entire test than gaining a drawn series

GSC wrote:Have to say this topic has taken a bit of a strange turn. Can't really see a conspiracy here, if India can't field a team due to covid concerns they have to forfeit the game. Don't think the ECB are really involved in this, they stand to lose more financially by missing an entire test than gaining a drawn series

Exactly. If anything the ECB are probably pushing to get the test played next summer, rather than have India forfeit.

GSC wrote:Have to say this topic has taken a bit of a strange turn. Can't really see a conspiracy here, if India can't field a team due to covid concerns they have to forfeit the game. Don't think the ECB are really involved in this, they stand to lose more financially by missing an entire test than gaining a drawn series

True
If you can't got to work because of Covid, you must forfeit your job, salary and pension
I agree

How is the world of work in any way comparable to top level professional sport?

VTR wrote:How is the world of work in any way comparable to top level professional sport?

I know in Afghanistan its not similar

I've no idea what you are on about now to be honest

Sad end to an enthralling series, although rain may have had the last word in Manchester.

OK, it's very disappointing. But it shows how lucky we've been to, almost, get thru the whole series without something like this happening.

Wonder now if some of the England guys might want to get some red-ball cricket in before the end of the English season.

GSC wrote:Have to say this topic has taken a bit of a strange turn. Can't really see a conspiracy here, if India can't field a team due to covid concerns they have to forfeit the game. Don't think the ECB are really involved in this, they stand to lose more financially by missing an entire test than gaining a drawn series

Very weird comments in the thread indeed - the ECB literally cobbled together a 3/4th string XI at 24 hours notice to play some pointless ODIs so they didn't lose out on ££££ earlier this summer. Can't really see why they'd want this off, it's going to be a massive massive financial and reputational loss for them the way it has played out, with so many spectators now having burned hundreds of pounds on fire on trains/hotels/tickets etc.

As to whether the series ends 2-1, or 2-2 - can't say it either really matters or personally I even care in the grand scheme of things. Maybe they'll get it played next summer or something

I think it might be pertinent for a mod to give KP_F a little break to cool off - it's all getting very strange and quite frankly, a bit offensive now

OK I see there are different opinions on this : and none of us have the full picture. But :

If no Indian players have tested positive one might ask why they are unable to field a team. Is it that they are unable or that they cannot guarantee none of their players are infected? And if so , what was the England team's attitude to the situation ?

If it is actually a case of India deliberately refusing to entertain an attempt to play the final match despite England being fully prepared to go ahead in any case , then one could say there is some justification for awarding the match to England.

But if all parties are agreed there is no practical way for the game to proceed then there can be no excuse for penalising India for being unlucky enough to catch Covid while touring England , can there ?

Guess we will be told the whole story eventually. But I fear it may leave a sour taste in a lot of mouths. And if I were an England player I would feel rather embarrassed in any claim to a drawn series. As an England supporter I certainly would !

Just for confirmation the final result is currently unknown, from the BBC:

"The ECB statement initially said that India, who led the series 2-1, had forfeited the final Test and the series was drawn 2-2. The statement has since been amended to say: "India are regrettably unable to field a team."

The final result is unclear."

At a guess, there are so many close contacts in the Indian squad to those that have tested positive that it's highly likely for people to test positive during the game, which is even farcical. Imagine on the morning of day 3 India are batting and Rohit/Kohli have to be withdrawn etc.

I don't even think this about claiming a 2-2 draw, and I'm not really sure where this emphasis has come from to be honest. Long standing precedence if you cant field a team, you forfeit the game, across pretty much every sport.

Regardless of in this instance England are potentially getting a drawn series (and I highly doubt there's anybody who will be celebrating it), you cant really be in a spot where the final match of a series can be cancelled and no result declared based on one team not participating, however mean that may be based on the context

KP_fan wrote:

GSC wrote:India have forfeited apparently so 2-2 it ends. Sad end to a great series, shame we didn't get the finish

yes face by draconian Talibanik pressure to put lives of Indians, English players, support staff and viewing fans at risk for the sake of just a game

The Indians did the right thing in Human cause to forfeit the game

You really are a scumbag.

KP_fan wrote:

GSC wrote:Have to say this topic has taken a bit of a strange turn. Can't really see a conspiracy here, if India can't field a team due to covid concerns they have to forfeit the game. Don't think the ECB are really involved in this, they stand to lose more financially by missing an entire test than gaining a drawn series

True
If you can't got to work because of Covid, you must forfeit your job, salary and pension
I agree

...that doesn't even make sense as a comparison. Nobody from the Indian team has been fired. More likely you'd take sick pay for the period of absence you're unable to work

According to an article on Cricinfo , WTC playing conditions state that a Covid outbreak within a team is an acceptable reason for a Test to be abandoned. I haven't gone looking for the fine print : but if that is true then I would imagine the lost Test ought to be considered a draw.
I will leave it to the lawyers.

Duty281 wrote:Just for confirmation the final result is currently unknown, from the BBC:

"The ECB statement initially said that India, who led the series 2-1, had forfeited the final Test and the series was drawn 2-2. The statement has since been amended to say: "India are regrettably unable to field a team."

The final result is unclear."

Under criticism of the inhumanity of their forfeiture claim
ECB makes half a U-Turn
Criticisms work

Blimey, give it a rest you absolute p****

VTR wrote:Blimey, give it a rest you absolute p****

Don't be a chicken
Write that p**** in Full

Aha . The wrangling about the "official result" is all about Insurance payments...

KP_fan : chill , please.

KP_fan wrote:

VTR wrote:Blimey, give it a rest you absolute p****

Don't be a chicken
Write that p**** in Full

Don't want to get banned. Quite enjoy discussing cricket on here. You just like winding people up

Think I'd echo Olly's suggestion that KPF may need a cooldown away from this forum

Take it easy KPF! Come to think of it, the BCCI is taking the right call in not playing the game now, and the ECB has shown understanding. In Covid Pandemic world, this possibility has to be factored into any playing conditions, and as alfie hinted above, that seems to be the case. It is up to the BCCI to ensure the conditions are enforced. If they don't it will be a failure on their part too, as much as will be disgusting on the part of the ECB, if by any circumstances, they are forcing the situation... From the evolving situation, it seems it is the insurance that seems to be forcing the ECB to possibly press for a forfeiture. Now make whatever you would want, England supporters.
Frankly I don't care if it is 2-1 to India or 2-2 to England at this stage. The cricket, while it lasted, was good, the games were proper tests for both sides, though we didn't always see the best of quality. And I feel India emerged the better side so far.
But at this point, cricket is 2nd priority. I did have Covid early in the summer. It is a horrible situation. The players of course would have the best support system around them, but I surely wouldn't want players or other stakeholders on either side to go through the situation, and there absolutely nothing more to it.

Trying to think of something similar to this. I remember the Six Nations 2001 (I think!), the England Ireland game was rearranged because of Foot and Mouth, taking place about 6 months after the other matches. It was also a Grand Slam game for England. I am not drawing parallels with the multiple competitions that were suspended and resumed after Covid, as they tended to involve a lot of fixtures left to complete.

Anyway, amongst all that rambling, my point is that if there is willing then a rearranged game looks to be a possibility, especially as the whole series outcome hinges on it

This from the Mail Online:

"But the key to all this is the resumption of the Indian Premier league in the UAE next week, with India's players desperate not to miss that at all costs. Hence their concern that they might subsequently test positive and be forced into isolation rather than their scheduled flight to Dubai next Wednesday.

India, though, only have themselves to blame after flouting Covid guidelines and attending a book launch in London unknown to the ECB, as revealed by Sportsmail, two days before the fourth Test at the Oval."

sirfredperry wrote:This from the Mail Online:

"But the key to all this is the resumption of the Indian Premier league in the UAE next week, with India's players desperate not to miss that at all costs. Hence their concern that they might subsequently test positive and be forced into isolation rather than their scheduled flight to Dubai next Wednesday.

India, though, only have themselves to blame after flouting Covid guidelines and attending a book launch in London unknown to the ECB, as revealed by Sportsmail, two days before the fourth Test at the Oval."

Certainly India's fault then, not the ECB's.

alfie wrote:Aha . The wrangling about the "official result" is all about Insurance payments...

KP_fan : chill , please.

OK..I will chill
and my apologies if people got offended
I will find Taliban/ Afg references and delete them out

It's a game after all.... if played either could have won

VTR wrote:Trying to think of something similar to this. I remember the Six Nations 2001 (I think!), the England Ireland game was rearranged because of Foot and Mouth, taking place about 6 months after the other matches. It was also a Grand Slam game for England. I am not drawing parallels with the multiple competitions that were suspended and resumed after Covid, as they tended to involve a lot of fixtures left to complete.

Anyway, amongst all that rambling, my point is that if there is willing then a rearranged game looks to be a possibility, especially as the whole series outcome hinges on it

Suppose that is still a possibility : India are coming to England in 2022 for some white ball games , I believe ? Might get a bit crowded with the calendar ; but could be the best solution...

I'd be cautious of anything written in the Daily Mail, but does reaffirm thaf the facts are going to start coming out, and opinions can then be based on that

Yeah, true! I did look it up and it does appear that Shastri and Kohli attended a book launch in London just before the fourth test.

https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/sports-news-ravi-shastri-and-virat-kohli-attend-book-launch-during-england-tour-embarrassed-bcci-to-probe-the-matter/393806

alfie wrote:

VTR wrote:Trying to think of something similar to this. I remember the Six Nations 2001 (I think!), the England Ireland game was rearranged because of Foot and Mouth, taking place about 6 months after the other matches. It was also a Grand Slam game for England. I am not drawing parallels with the multiple competitions that were suspended and resumed after Covid, as they tended to involve a lot of fixtures left to complete.

Anyway, amongst all that rambling, my point is that if there is willing then a rearranged game looks to be a possibility, especially as the whole series outcome hinges on it

Suppose that is still a possibility : India are coming to England in 2022 for some white ball games , I believe ?  Might get a bit crowded with the calendar ; but could be the best solution...

It could work out. Remember England getting well beaten in that game. Feeling was, if played at the time of the tournament, England were in great form and big favourites to win. Of course, they may have lost anyway. So a Test in a year could look very different in terms of expectations of a result

Shastri attending the said book launch has been info available in the public domain ever since his test returned positive. It is just a timely little spin that this was against explicit ECB Covid guidelines!

Breaking news that both boards will look to reschedule the match

msp83 wrote:Shastri attending the said book launch has been info available in the public domain ever since his test returned positive. It is just a timely little spin that this was against explicit ECB Covid guidelines!

It's not spin if a) it's true and b) the reason for the postponement.

Soul Requiem wrote:

msp83 wrote:Shastri attending the said book launch has been info available in the public domain ever since his test returned positive. It is just a timely little spin that this was against explicit ECB Covid guidelines!

It's not spin if a) it's true and b) the reason for the postponement.

If it was violation of Covid guidelines, why was there no action? And in the UK, strict Covid protocols are not in place any more is it? So what exact aspect of the guidelines did he violate?

The BCCI's statement indicated that after several rounds of talks, the test has been postponed, and an offer has been made to the ECB to reschedule the match during a later window. There was nothing whatsoever about a forfeiture in there, unlike the original statement from the ECB.

msp83 wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

msp83 wrote:Shastri attending the said book launch has been info available in the public domain ever since his test returned positive. It is just a timely little spin that this was against explicit ECB Covid guidelines!

It's not spin if a) it's true and b) the reason for the postponement.

If it was violation of Covid guidelines, why was there no action? And in the UK, strict Covid protocols are not in place any more is it? So what exact aspect of the guidelines did he violate?

He violated the guidelines as set out by the ECB prior to the tour taking place and the breaking of those guidelines is the reason why the match is not taking place. It's not that difficult to understand.

Soul Requiem wrote:

msp83 wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

msp83 wrote:Shastri attending the said book launch has been info available in the public domain ever since his test returned positive. It is just a timely little spin that this was against explicit ECB Covid guidelines!

It's not spin if a) it's true and b) the reason for the postponement.

If it was violation of Covid guidelines, why was there no action? And in the UK, strict Covid protocols are not in place any more is it? So what exact aspect of the guidelines did he violate?

He violated the guidelines as set out by the ECB prior to the tour taking place and the breaking of those guidelines is the reason why the match is not taking place. It's not that difficult to understand.

What clause of the guidelines? The guidelines, as far my understanding goes, didn't insist on players and support staff being confined to the hotel when not playing. They have been allowed to socialize following the protocol. So what exact aspect did he violate? And why no action was taken against him if he violated the guidelines explicitly?

More clarity on who has been pushing for forfeiture. ECB wants the results to be considered as forfeiture rather than abandoning in order to get insurance claims. There have been 4 confirmed cases of Covid within the Indian camp. The ICC playing-conditions allows for abandoning a test due to Covid outbreak. ECB seems to push the position that its only the support staff who have been confirmed, not any player, though many of them have been close contacts, of at least 1 of the confirmed support staff. So they are taking the line that it is Covid fear rather than Covid outbreak as the reason for cancelation. https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/eng-vs-ind-2021-abandoned-forfeited-or-postponed-result-of-manchester-test-to-have-big-repercussions-for-ecb-1277231

Unless the usual Big-3 mutual adjustment politics kicks in, this could end up being very messy.

I have a feeling both sides are going to come out of this not looking great. I don't really care much for the outcome now, but will be interested to see what it is