Prem Round 3

Friday 1st

Bristol vs. Bath [19:45] [BT Sports]

Saturday 2nd

Northampton Saints vs. London Irish [14:00]
Leicester Tigers vs. Saracens [15:00] [BT Sports]
Newcastle Falcons vs. Wasps [15:00]
Worcester Warriors vs. Gloucester [15:00]

Sunday 3rd

Sale vs.  Exeter [15:00] [BT Sport]

Bristol: Piutau; Lloyd, O'Conor, Bedlow, Purdy; Sheedy, Randall; Thomas, Capon, Sinckler, Holmes, Joyce, Vui, Heenan, Luatua (capt).

Replacements: Kerr, Woolmore, Lahiff, Harding, Thomas, Uren, Frisch, Leiua.


Bath: De Glanville; Rokoduguni, Joseph, Ojomoh, Muir; Bailey, Fox; Obano, Du Toit, Stuart, McNally, Ewels (capt), Ellis, Underhill, Bayliss.

Replacements: Dunn, Boyce, Rae, Williams, Reid, Green, Clark, Watson.

Has hes the potential to be an exciting game, but the weather has been appalling in the West Country over the last couple of days, and it looks set to continue today.

The weather is appalling all over marra...

I hope wasps are bringing their waterproofs with them when they come up here....

Thankfully it looks like it might brighten up (though not warm up) in Leicester tomorrow ready for the game. Deluge during the night but some sunshine now. Most pitches now are either hybrid or the awful 4G stuff so there shouldn't be any old fashioned mud baths. The Rec being the last old school pitch (I think) and Bath aren't playing at home.

Dont care about the players Sam...they can keep warm on the pitch...unlike us hardy Souls in the North Stand at KP...

Interesting point you make about pitches Sam.
How many traditional grass pitches are left?
I thought the Quins pitch looked pretty decent last weekend, just put that down to it recovering in the offseason - but in hindsight it may well be one of those hybrid pitches.

Falcons, Worcester and I think now Glouces have gone for 4G but am unsure of the others

We've had ours for a good few years now....

Theres mixed views on them....they do mean we can try to play a different type of rugby, however investigations do seem to suggest increased injuries due to them...

GeordieFalcon wrote:Dont care about the players Sam...they can keep warm on the pitch...unlike us hardy Souls in the North Stand at KP...

You'll be in short and flipflops under the rain coat, it's still in double figures you northerners wil be roasting.

Yeah you guys were one of the early adopters GF. But, to be honest that made perfect sense as I remember a few years prior that there were a number of games (across the country) that were delayed/postponed due to ice/snow.

So many of the top sides all have 4G surfaces for their training pitches too.

To be honest, I have a feeling that some of the new directives about limiting contact and semi-contact sessions in training, are more likely to have a negative impact on in-game injury numbers than the nature of the playing surface.

propdavid_london wrote:Interesting point you make about pitches Sam.  
How many traditional grass pitches are left?  
I thought the Quins pitch looked pretty decent last weekend, just put that down to it recovering in the offseason - but in hindsight it may well be one of those hybrid pitches.  

Falcons, Worcester and I think now Glouces have gone for 4G but am unsure of the others

I didn't really get the hybrid pitch thing until I played on one a couple of years back. It was great. Middle of winter and a week of rain should have meant a mud bath but though the surface was wet no mud. Made for a great game of rugby and meant us backs were kept warm and in the action. Given the choice is pick hybrid over 4G. Played on some 4G pitches when I was younger and although the technology will have moved on the players are still experiencing what I did at the time. Those pitches are very firm so you are going to be feeling it in the joints, I didn't have any burns but some of the pics players have put up suggest that is a problem.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Dont care about the players Sam...they can keep warm on the pitch...unlike us hardy Souls in the North Stand at KP...

You'll be in short and flipflops under the rain coat, it's still in double figures you northerners wil be roasting.

You'll be amazed how many turn up tomorrow in shorts and short sleeves.....

Falcons for Wasps at KP - 15.00:

15 Tom Penny,
14 Adam Radwan,
13 Ben Stevenson,
12 Pete Lucock,
11 Nathan Earle,
10 Will Haydon-Wood,
9 Louis Schreuder;

1 Adam Brocklebank,
2 George McGuigan,
3 Mark Tampin,
4 Marco Fuser,
5 Philip van der Walt,
6 Callum Chick,
7 Will Welch (captain),
8 Carl Fearns.

Replacements: 16 Jamie Blamire, 17 Kyle Cooper, 18 Trevor Davison, 19 Will Montgomery, 20 Gary Graham, 21 Cameron Nordli-Kelemeti, 22 Brett Connon, 23 George Wacokecoke.

I'm not really sure what to make of this selection. I expected some rotation but this is quite a bit. Presumably we are looking to engage in the kicking game but look to have a strong counter attack option open. Unsure Kobus will help with that as he's been woeful to date, particularly under the high ball.

STARTING XV
15 Freddie Burns [74]
14 Kobus van Wyk [14] *
13 Guy Porter [19]
12 Dan Kelly [22]
11 Hosea Saumaki **
10 George Ford [107]
9 Ben Youngs [266]
1 Francois van Wyk [2]
2 Nic Dolly [4]
3 Dan Cole [266]
4 Calum Green [62]
5 Ollie Chessum [10]
6 George Martin [19]
7 Tommy Reffell [49]
8 Hanro Liebenberg (c) [38]
REPLACEMENTS
16 Tom Cowan-Dickie [1]
17 Ellis Genge [91]
18 Nephi Leatigaga [43]
19 Harry Wells [126]
20 Cameron Henderson [17]
21 Jack van Poortvliet [23]
22. Juan Pablo Socino
23. Freddie Steward

Saracens Men team to play Leicester Tigers:

1 Ralph Adams-Hale

2 Jamie George

3 Marco Riccioni

4 Nick Isiekwe

5 Tim Swinson

6 Jackson Wray

7 Ben Earl

8 Billy Vunipola

9 Aled Davies

10 Owen Farrell (c)

11 Rotimi Segun

12 Nick Tompkins

13 Alex Lozowski

14 Alex Lewington

15 Max Malins

Replacements:

16 Tom Woolstencroft

17 Eroni Mawi

18 Alec Clarey

19 Callum Hunter-Hill

20 Andy Christie

21 Joe Simpson

22 Alex Goode

23 Dom Morris

Farrell is back for Sarries as are Malins, Goode and George. I think they may look to play a little more than we've lined up expecting.

Well Nick Isiekwe is certainly getting his games at lock now isnt he.

Strong Saracens side....

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well Nick Isiekwe is certainly getting his games at lock now isnt he.

Strong Saracens side....

Starting lineup looks good, forwards on the bench not so much. It's a bit worrying when you consider there's Maro Itoje, Mako Vunipola and Vincent Koch all to come back in.

Think this could be interesting. Tigers have named their two best lineout jumping locks plus have two good lineout jumpers in the backrow. That plus dual playmakers of which one is at fullback to return the kicks can't be by accident. The two wingers are both very quick, particularly in broken field when they can use their footwork so we might be expecting some kicking from Sarries. Steward on the bench in case we need more solidity at the back and plan isn't working.

Roll on a summer rugby season.

Isiekwe has been eye catching in the game I saw him in. Given he was looked at at blindside and quickly dispatched back to his club maybe this is the way to go for him. THinking about how strong some areas of that squad is, they could have 3 England full backs if Daly were fit. Forwards look ever so slightly scratchy from what they're had at their peak.

Slightly off Leicester lineup. I suppose its a long season etc and you've got to look after the players but that team doesn't look as strong as it could with Steward, van Poortvliet, Genge and Wells (though havn't seen loads of Chessum) on the bench. Against Saracens they could have been putting down a big statement but it opens the door a touch doesn't it? May be a bit of brilliance if it comes of course.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Slightly off Leicester lineup. I suppose its a long season etc and you've got to look after the players but that team doesn't look as strong as it could with Steward, van Poortvliet, Genge and Wells (though havn't seen loads of Chessum) on the bench. Against Saracens they could have been putting down a big statement but it opens the door a touch doesn't it? May be a bit of brilliance if it comes of course.

I think Benny is more suited to the game than JVP actually. I know the done think is to cast anybody aside when they got 30 but Benny's level of control off the bench Vs Glaws somewhat saved the day for Tigers. We'll need him at his best Vs Sarries who live a tactical battle. JVP coming off the bench against hopefully tired Sarries forwards should work well.

Chessum I think will be a cracking player for Tigers. Former England under 20, has played for Notts in the Championship previously. Big work rate, particularly in attack where he'll carry all day for small gains. At 6ft7 and athletic he's very good at lineout time. I do wonder if he's been rotated in so that Liebenburg can jump less and then compete more on defensive lineouts.

Genge will be on for the second half. Borthwick likes to rotate, particularly the front row, to keep players fresh. Steward was definitely a surprise omission. I can only think there was some tough training with England that maybe he's got some bruises or has worked hard and Borthwick just wants him to get less minutes this weekend.

So not a gamble for you Sam but the strongest team, bar Steward. Can't help but feel Saracens will be feeling happier seeing the changes myself.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So not a gamble for you Sam but the strongest team, bar Steward. Can't help but feel Saracens will be feeling happier seeing the changes myself.

No not the strongest 15 but Borthwick doesn't change players just for rotations sake. There will be a specific game plan he has in mind. The two centres are both aggressive defenders, the back three set up to counter attack but also with an eye on the 50/22 with Burns back there, Benny is in for the tactical game, forward pack is more lineout based so we've gone with two scrummaging props to start and then two impact props for the second half. 

If I was to guess, first half we will look to make it a very physical arm wrestle with lots of set piece play. Tigers fitness is good under our new S&C regime so try and take the legs out of the Sarries forwards knowing their bench isn't as good as ours. Try and at least finish equal in the tactical battle. Second half, I think we'll open up more and start to look for more in attack. Two heavy carrying props come on, Wells adds the intensity, Socino more carrying in the centres, JVP can snipe and Steward takes over at 15 to mop up the clearing kicks from a Sarries team which is hopefully under fire.

Borthwick often talks about getting the best 80 minute combination 15 not the best players for a 15. Think that's what we are seeing in selection and I'm really hoping it works.

There's a lot of kicking in that backline though, Burns hasn't struck me as a particularly great full back ever, less about dealing with the kicks comfortably and more trying to kick back better, or counter? I just don't see the reason to drop Steward while you'll be getting bombarded from the off. Don't know just seems a little confused thinking. Intrigued by those 2 back rows going up against each other though; tasty!

Yeah I'd have started Steward every day of the week for this one. Borthwick could have gone Kini Murimurivalu or Bryce Heggarty and brought in a specific fullback if Freddie Steward wasn't 100% which makes me think Borthwick has a plan.

Saints team for the visit of LI tomorrow:

15 George Furbank
14 Ollie Sleightholme
13 Matt Proctor
12 Fraser Dingwall
11 Tom Collins
10 Dan Biggar
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Nick Auterac
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Paul Hill
4 David Ribbans
5 Api Ratuniyarawa
6 Tom Wood
7 Lewis Ludlam (capt)
8 Juarno Augustus

Replacements:
16 James Fish
17 Alex Waller
18 Ehren Painter
19 Alex Coles
20 Courtney Lawes
21 Teimana Harrison
22 Frank Lomani
23 Tommy Freeman

That is one hell of a bench (baring Fish). Biggar and Lawes back will make a difference and Augustus makes his home start, it will be good to see how he goes from the off rather than a replacement.

6-2 bench split, lets hope we don't get any injuries inn the backs. Freeman can only cover wing and 15.

Given Biggar finished the Lions tour in bits and was strapped up heavily before then I'm a little surprised to see him return early and Saints go with a 6-2 bench. Hopefully he's back to full fitness.

The weather forecast tomorrow is dire, looks like Borthwick has picked a side geared towards the lineout and lots of kicking.

Tigers have 4 strong lineout options to Sarries 2 so they should be really targeting a traditional strength of Sarries.

I'm a bit worried about Burns at fullback in a deluge. He's had some really good games at fullback but is better suited to dry conditions and harder pitches. I'd have gone with Hegarty and Murimurivalu ahead of Burns and van Wyk. Steward, Nadolo and Potter is the first choice back three so it's full rotation at the back. I'm happy to see Saumaki get a go though, he looks a dangerous player.

With Scott's injuries in the past we need to rotate him to get the best of him so Porter for Scott doesn't concern me even if I think our defence looks better with Scott at 13. That's a necessary and expected rotation with Moroni away. I rate Porter and have been excited to see more of him at centre this season.

Riccioni has looked a strong signing for Sarries at TH so he'll be a good test of Francois van Wyk at the scrum.

The Tigers bench looks strong to me so if we can take this deep there's plenty of impact to be brought on.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Given Biggar finished the Lions tour in bits and was strapped up heavily before then I'm a little surprised to see him return early and Saints go with a 6-2 bench. Hopefully he's back to full fitness.

Not that I want to be all doom and gloom, but that is one of the scenarios we can cope with, Furbank to 10, Freeman to 15. If one of the centres goes we will struggle, best option I can see is Furbank to 10, Biggar to 12, Freeman to 15 and if it is Proctor hurt, Dingwall to 13.

As an England fan...there's a whole raft of young talent to keep an eye on in this Bath v Bristol game...

God! I hate the scrum at the moment. Spend about 2 minutes arsing about, collapse and then penalty. Stop messing about and get on with it!

Oh what a time to drop the ball.

Class pass by Joseph...

Joseph is looking really sharp, you forget what a good player he can be.

JJ looking excellent, Randall has started well too. Bath scrum looking a bit unsteady.

Good score from the lock wearing 11

Could be a cracker this, really clear night.  My weather predictions are about as good as my betting skills...

Yeah when Joseph is fit and on form he's an absolutely class player....

Another , like Manu you think what if for England...

Wasps team to play Newcastle. Our injury list grows to 13 with centres Fekitoa & Le Bourgeois out from last week.

15. Ali Crossdale, 14. Marcus Watson, 13. Sam Spink, 12. Jimmy Gopperth, 11. Josh Bassett; 10. Jacob Umaga, 9. Dan Robson; 1. Robin Hislop, 2. Tom Cruse, 3. Jeff Toomaga-Allen, 4. Vaea Fifita, 5. Elliott Stooke, 6. Brad Shields (c), 7. Gabriel Oghre, 8. Tom Willis.
Replacements: 16. Dan Frost, 17. Tom West, 18. Biyi Alo, 19. Tim Cardall, 20. Ben Harris, 21. Will Porter, 22. Will Simonds, 23. Zach Kibirige

If Bath can keep Joseph fit...thats a decent midfield that'll get better through the season...

Bailey
Ojomoh
Joseph

Bristol's lineout has been shocking so far, they won't win games with such poor accuracy.

Is Capon really an England hooker hopeful?

Some game for the neutral mind...

Brilliant skills from Bath to score that try.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is Capon really an England hooker hopeful?

Some game for the neutral mind...

He's a 21-year-old front row, GF. LCD's lineout work was dire at the start now he's a starting Lions hooker. Give him time.

Soft penalty that for Bristol, but gets them out of jail.

What a try! How did they keep that alive? Great vision from the young stand off!

Wow!!! What a try

Needs to sort his place kicking out though.

I honestly think that 7s provides value in those sorts of situations, it teaches you how to keep the ball alive when you have little support. I'm glad that the RFU have reversed their decision on it.

What a cracking game for the neutral

Ah and Joseph off injured again. Him and Manu...what iff..

Young Bailey is having a cracking game for Bath tonight. He looks like he's matured over the summer. The kick for the second Muir try was just lovely execution and great vision.

Muir has had a good game on the Bath wing...