Scotland v Italy 6N Championship Saturday 20th March 2021

Scotland v Italy
6N Championship
Saturday 20th March 2021
BT Murrayfield Stadium
Edinburgh
KO 14.15


Well not quite the wooden spoon game, Italy will get that eve if they were to win, but the chance to salvage some pride for both sides.

Italy have had a poor 6N no doubt and have not even managed to be competitive in any of their matches. Even those of us who love their involvement in the tournament and are hoping for them to come good have been struggling a bit with that this year. Will they have anything left in the tank for one last heave against Scotland, the match they always fancy they have a chance in?

Scotland have been their usual frustrating selves this year, but maybe with a difference as their performances do suggest they should be competitive with the top sides in the tournament and yet they have not taken their chances when they have presented themselves and look set for 5th place again, better than Italy but tantalising short of the other sides. Beating Italy well and then having a good crack at France also offers them some shot at a redemption. We would have taken 3 wins at the beginning of the tournament and it is still a possibility, albeit a long shot now.

Scotland, in all likelihood, face two quick turnaround matches now if they game against France goes ahead on the following Friday as is being currently predicted. They also took a battering against Ireland and a few injuries, all of which points to a changed team and some rotation for the Italy game. I would expect some squad reinforcements announced today and a different looking team for next week. maybe something along these lines:


1. Sutherland - hopefully will get subbed off early
2. Cherry - deserves a start and Turner deserves a rest
3. Nel - again, hopefully a shortish stint
4. Gilchrist
5. Skinner
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Fagerson M
9. Steele - Price definitely needs a rest
10. VDW - hard to see any other option really
11. Maitland
12. Johnson
13. Jones H - he really deserves a start
14. VDM
15. Hogg

Subs

Keeble/Bhatti (Bhatti actually did ok on sunday)
Ashman - excellent opportunity to get him capped
Berghan
Craig - debut off the bench
Baylis - if fit or Haining if not
Dobie
Harris
Graham

Thank feck Italy have been awful as we're not going into the game in good shape at all, and with a short turnaround.

Gilchrist-Skinner is the obvious lock paring and it would be good to see someone like Craig on the bench.

Halfbacks are a huge worry - Price is off form but no-one to replace him. Who the hell plays at 10?

One things for sure though - are we all I'm agreement that Jones needs to start??

I'd be tempted to get Hogg in at 10 for this one. Did a great job yesterday. Plus he'll be closer to the action to captain.

Scotland can't be complacent. Italy have a lot of dangerous backline runners so the set piece has to be a lot better, any cheap ball will be punished.

1. Sutherland
2. Cherry (deserves a start)
3. Berghan
4. Skinner
5. Gilchrist
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Fagerson
9. Steele (Dobie? Price with Dobie bench?)
10. Hogg
11. DVDM
12. Johnson
13. Jones (deserves a start)
14. Graham
15. Maitland

16. Turner, 17. Kebble, 18. Nel, 19. Craig (deserves a shot), 20. Haining, 21. Price, 22. VDW, 23. Taylor (McGuigan? Maclean? Harris? Lang?)

If he was to play Hogg at FH, which is definitely possible, then I imagine Jones would play at FB and Harris would stay at OC. That might give the opportunity to bring Hutchy into the squad as well.

That might not actually be that bad a shout as he could provide some FH cover as well.

I'd get hutch into the squad. Also I know I keep banging the SHC drum but he has also played at FH and previously was training to cover with the squad. At the moment I'd have Thompson or Chamberlain over VDW, I really don't rate him. Given they're new to pro rugby it would be a stretch but Italy would be the time to bench them. I expect Lang is next off the cab rank for 10, which leaves something to be desired but I imagine he will be in Toonies thoughts moreso than hutch.

If VDW or Weir is fit, one of them is the 10. Hogg, Lang or Hutchinson can cover 10 for 15-20 minutes if needed.

If neither of VDW or Weir is fit, we will need to blood one of the youngsters. I have not seen enough of N Chamberlain recently to comment on his form but R Thompson seems to get better with each game. He will be on the small end physically and our defensive line will need to adapt. He takes his kicks and has played with Price and S Johnson on either side of him before so should give him a bit of confidence.

I do think we need a bit of rotation for this game though not too much. Would be tempted if all 4 of our top FH's are out for debuts to be given to R Thompson (starting), Dobie, Ashman and Craig (bench).

Sutherland - Turner - Nel (Bhatti - Ashman - Berghan)
Gilchrist - Skinner (Craig)
Ritchie - M Fagerson - Watson (Haining)

Price - R Thompson (Dobie)
S Johnson - H Jones (Harris)
VDW - Hogg - Maitland (Graham)

One of the reporters post match yesterday asked about Chamerlain or Thompson getting involved. Townsend said he'd be looking inside the squad first so I would expect VDW then Lang as the most likely to start against Italy. It would be pretty awesome to see Hogg start at 10 though just for the entertainment factor.

Gee I think Jones would be better to start at 13 again personally. Maitland is always my preferred backup at fullback. He slotted in there yesterday after the reshuffle and he always does a good job. Italy would be a great match for Jones to return at 13. Harris wasn't too bad yesterday, although he messed things up when Earles was jumping for the ball. He really should have stood back a bit and let Hogg deal with it. I think Jones has done enough to earn a start there.

No, I agree that Mainland is good cover at FB, I just want to see Jones on the pitch

I can't see Thompson or Chamberlain coming into the squad, they are both as green as grass, Dobie, though younger does have a season and a half of pro rugby behind him and has had a significant amount of gametime. Let the 2 young FHs continue to develop St club level, we can have a conversation about them next year.

Against Italy we have better options, VDW or Hogg at a pinch.

Thompson and Chamberlain are feotuses with barely 10 pro appearances between them. They should definitely not be involved.

Hogg to 10 gets my vote!

Squad update:

Cummings not included, looks like he broke his hand.

Aly Miller comes in to the pack though along with ZF, does that mean he is available for this game?

Damian Hoyland comes into the backs and Rufus McLean goes back to Glasgow.

Hopefully the news not to bad for JG then and he may make it back for the France game.

The big thing I am hoping for is not to see a Gilchrist - J Gray second row. Against Italy it won't be a problem but if they play well together, it will tempt Townsend to play them against France and they don't complement each other. Craig or Skinner next to J Gray or GG for me.

Zander Fagerson should be available. Banned 4 games and Glasgow have played 4 times (or 3 times plus Scotland vs Ireland). He should be around for Italy though I assumed not when doing my line-up. Happy for him to start that one with Nel being given a week off before France.

I think the squad needs a bit of a refresh for this one, to go alongside the forced injury changes, and this is certainly the game to do so. My team below, chosen Hoggy as I thought he aquited himself well against Ireland and I want to get our best players on the pitch - which doesn't include VDW!

1. Sutherland
2. Cherry
3. Nel
4. Gilchrist
5. Skinner
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Fagerson
9. Steele
10. Hogg
11. DHVDM
12. Johnson
13. Jones
14. Graham
15. Maitland

16. Bhattie
17. Berghan
18. Cherry
19. Craig
20. Haining
21. Price
22. Lang
23. Harris

EST, I agree, but I think ZF will start, with Nel getting a rest.
Surprisingly for me, GG played well when he came off the bench, so I would start Craig and Skinner in the middle row. With GG as impact sub.
That could also allow Skinner the option to move to 6 if we want to rest Ritchie.
You also have Cherry starting and subbing...... Would this be the second bite that he is rumoured to be capable of?
Either Ashman or Turner to sub, maybe Turner should just spend 10 days doing throwing practice before the France game?

If Russell is ruled out and Hog goes in at FH Maitland goes to full back who is Scotland's replacement 10?

Probably Lang off the bench.

For the benefit of those discussing it, here’s the squad which details Cummings out through injury and the return of cannonball Ragnar



The tombola is strong with some green green players and a few academy boys being invited to train

None of them are 10s though. There’s no word on Russell being cabbaged so he could still feature.

If not then it’s lang or jaco to 10 I’d think. He could Chuck hogg at 10 for giggles but we’ve tried and failed with that experiment before.

It’s either Lang or jaco starting with Hogg moving over if injured like he did on Saturday with Huw or sleepy Sean moving to 15.

Weir isn’t in the squad as he’s goosed down he won’t be featuring.

I fully expect to see Lang at 10 against Italy. He’ll have a stormer and then of Finn isn’t fit for France Lang will start that game too with everyone expecting him to be the next Dan Carter only for things to implode with style against les bleus

Anyone got laidlaw’s Japanese phone number?

My team, FWIW:

1 Sutherland
2 Cherry (get an angry Turner coming off the bench)
3 Fagerson
4 Gilchrist
5 Skinner
6 Ritchie
7 Watson
8 Haining (he's starting to come back into a bit more form, Fagerson started the tournament well but has fallen off badly)

9 Steele (let's see what he can actually do as a 9)
10 Russell if fit, VDW if not, Hogg if either are not
11 VDM
12 Johnson
13 Jones
14 Maitland/Graham (depending on if Hogg is at 10)
15 Hogg/Maitland (depending on if Hogg is at 10)

Subs - Kebble/Bhattie, Turner, Nel, Craig, Fagerson, Price, Lang, Harris (although I'd like to see Hutch)

Anglobraveheart wrote:EST, I agree, but I think ZF will start, with Nel getting a rest.
Surprisingly for me, GG played well when he came off the bench, so I would start Craig and Skinner in the middle row. With GG as impact sub.
That could also allow Skinner the option to move to 6 if we want to rest Ritchie.
You also have Cherry starting and subbing...... Would this be the second bite that he is rumoured to be capable of?  
Either Ashman or Turner to sub, maybe Turner should just spend 10 days doing throwing practice before the France game?

Ahh ZF is available for this one, I completely tuned out of the saga that was his disciplinary hearing.

Haha, I enjoyed that one - yes, Turner to the naughty step after the lineout debacle of last weekend.

tigertattie wrote:For the benefit of those discussing it, here’s the squad which details Cummings out through injury and the return of cannonball Ragnar



The tombola is strong with some green green players and a few academy boys being invited to train  Are the academy boys greener than the green green players?

None of them are 10s though. There’s no word on Russell being cabbaged so he could still feature. Dancer and The Pdestrian Luvvie are both in the squad, even Toonie wouldn't consider listing TWO stand offs who were hors de combat funny. No really, even Toonie wouldn't do that.

If not then it’s lang or jaco to 10 I’d think. He could Chuck hogg at 10 for giggles but we’ve tried and failed with that experiment before. Like fat Boris refusing to consider preparing for a second wave, or entertain the possibilty of a more virulent strain, Toonie is not above repeating failed experiments because "Things have moved on and we're all a lot wiser". I may have made the quote up but my point still stands; Boris is an absolute shambles and should be in jail.

It’s either Lang or jaco starting with Hogg moving over if injured like he did on Saturday with Huw or sleepy Sean moving to 15. Lang: see my comment about failed experiments. The Pedestrian Luvvie?  If you want the most vanilla 10 in the world go ahead. I'd rather chuck Chamberlain in. Or Thompson.

Weir isn’t in the squad as he’s goosed down he won’t be featuring. No but wait till nest year when he has a season of Glasgow gallusness in him.

I fully expect to see Lang at 10 against Italy. He’ll have a stormer and then of Finn isn’t fit for France Lang will start that game too with everyone expecting him to be the next Dan Carter only for things to implode with style against les bleus Oh ye of little faith....Toonie will think up a far more jollisome jape than that.

Anyone got laidlaw’s Japanese phone number?

Don't we all have Japanese phones? The House Elf should bench and come on and herald a New Golden Age. Not a false dawn, certainly not.


P.S. did you spot my Banksyesque signature quotefunctionfail?

I've seen a few highlights and Laidlaw looks pretty fit in a very fast playing league. He's obviously looking to finish off his career with a bang rather than kick back and enjoy the fanfare from his growing Japanese fanbase and Mr Greig branding.

The Top League looks like a really great competition for foreign professionals to be a part of and hopefully the MLR will follow a similar suit. It's great to see LA Giltinis Ashe and DTH will be playing alongside some big (albiet older) names and helping the game grow over there.

https://twitter.com/Scotlandteam/status/1371853774327840768?s=20

Dobie on his promotion to the full squad. Will he be in with a shot at getting a bench spot this weekend?

Rumours that Sutherland, Gray and Russell are injured.

These rumours are generally always true, so that's a big blow.

Well we were imaging Russell and Gray out, Sunderland is an extra, but hopefully it is short term and Kemble will be back in any case

Fsgerson back should be a net benefit as well

Cummings confirmed as out too!

Yes, sorry, I meant him as well

Skinner and GG should be able to do the job against Italy though

Going by past games where Scotland have had to make a lot of changes to the starting XV the game usually turns out to be quite messy and error strewn. Hopefully the team can rectify the line out this week and ensure the basics are back to a high standard.

I'm guessing the team may be announced earlier today as we start our game first on Saturday?

Kebble in for Sutherland is tit for tat pretty much, Bhatti did quite well off the bench last weekend. Fagerson back is a welcoming boost and Berghan or Nel are great backups. Cherry probably deserves a start but perhaps Toonie will want to retain as much continuity as possible.

Skinner and GG is a big change but they're both experienced and hard working locks so not a big problem there. Craig on the bench is an inexperienced but promising lock who may earn his first cap.

Ritchie Watson is great. M Fagerson? Or does Du Preez or Haining deserve to start ahead of him? M Fagerson vs England was great, but his performance against Ireland was a bit flat. I'd be tempted to stick with him and retain the continuity.

Price had a so-so game at 9. His quick tap to setup the Jones try was brilliant, his infringements and last minute stuff up were not so great. That game pretty much summed up Ali Price in a nutshell. Time for Dobie to have a go? I think so.

Biggest talking point. Does the out of form VDW replace Russell? Or do we give Lang a start? To be honest I would be tempted to let Lang start this match with VDW on the bench. Hogg is also there to cover if needed. But then, the prospect of Dobie working with Hogg is pretty exciting. I'll be interested to see how Townsend goes with this one. My gut says Price/Lang.

DVDM could potentially cause havoc in this game. He was out of position for the first Irish try and I'm sure Hogg and Harris would have given him an earful about that at halftime. Still not getting into the game enough though, the backs need to try and get the ball to him more and he needs to try and come in field a bit more and offer himself up. he seems to be learning and will hopefully be a pretty decent all round winger by the time the RWC comes around.

Johnson/Jones

Graham or Maitland? I would probably say Maitland because Italy have one very good player in Montanna Ioane on the left wing. He could be handful.

Hogg

Dobie and Craig to win their first caps? I hope so. Rufus Maclean to win a cap?

Morning peeps

I didn't comment on the Ireland game because you guys pretty much covered most of the salient points. The main reason though was the Italy-Wales result really sickened me. Not that I begrudge the Welsh getting a big win, far from it. No what cheesed me off was the realisation that Italy were there for the taking, Wales worked out a plan to exploit their weaknesses, their players stuck to the plan, there was no messing about, they put Italy to the sword. Eddie Butler once wrote a very good article in the Observer about the famous Pontypool front row in which he describes their pre-professional attitude as , basically, turn up, give the local front row a good stuffing, shower, comb the brylcreem through the unfashionable haircut, pocket the bonus, get on the coach back to Ponty and then have a few beers. Job done for another week! There was an air of that about the way Wales disposed of Italy. I was totally scunnered watching it because....when was the last time Scotland showed that level of basic competence when going into a match they were favourites to win?

Italy have been rank this year. The play two 10's gambit hasn't worked for them; Canna and the youngster are seldom on the same wavelength and a wolfish back row could heast on isolating and devouring Canna. The ruck defence is dreadful; they pull most of their forwards into a very narrow channel close to the breakdown and leave acres of space out wide, if VDM comes off his wing looking for work or if our 10 can shift the point of attack quickly there are lots of tries to be scored.

It really shouldn't matter who Toonie selects. If the team play as they should we win comfortably. If I was a betting man I'd back Italy to lose by less than 10 points.

BigGee wrote:Well we were imaging Russell and Gray out, Sunderland is an extra, but hopefully it is short term and Kemble will be back in any case

Fsgerson back should be a net benefit as well

If Finn failed his HIA then he is out regardless as there is only 6 days between the games.

Morning Jim. It's actually evening here but I know you don't like me mixing up timezones.

You are dead right that it's a classic Scottish sporting trait that we struggle to put away teams that we should best easily. Saying that, we've generally had Italy's number in recent years, particularly at home. Anything less than a 15 point win really would be disappointing.

But this is Scotland, and they always find new ways to disappoint us.

Rumours of Steele-Hogg as halfbacks!

RDW wrote:Rumours of Steele-Hogg as halfbacks!

Against Italy, then why not, we just need someone on the bench to cover (VDW or Lang)

Hastings will be back for the French game even if Finn is not fit, so no real reasons not to roll the dice for this one.

Chances are Scotland will finish 4th at worst in the championship which given all the promise seems a bit poor.

RDW wrote:Rumours of Steele-Hogg as halfbacks!

Really???

"Hamish Watson (44) and Jonny Gray (39) are yet to miss a tackle in the 2021 Six Nations, no one else has made more than 30 tackles without missing at least one, Watson also didn’t miss a tackle in 2020 (73); in fact he has made 133 consecutive tackles in a row in the tournament without missing one, the second longest such run in Six Nations history (Lionel Nallet 154)" - SRU Website

How is that for a stat!

Scotland should win this game at a canter. Despite results so far in this 6N, they have all been very close, I have seen enough of Scotland to make me predict, quite confidently, that Scotland will put at least 5 tries on them, maybe more.

Unfortunately for Scotland, when they get injuries, their back up players do not have the extra few inches to get over the line.

If Scotland had the same team that played England for the rest of the 6N they would be one or two wins better off.

Team's up
Steel
Hogg
VDM
Johnson
SHUG
ADHD KID
No Maits
Is the news behind the scrum. Price benches as do VDW and Harris. If we find ourselves behind on the scoreboard in the second half that bench won't scare Italy.
Mbawza-Fagerson-Hamish stay together with Haining to come on.
Principal and GG really need to see this as an opportunity to show what nasty buggers they can be. If Craig is lucky he'll come on against a beaten demoralised pack. If unlucky he'll be joining one.
Ragnar replaces Nel and Cherry hunts Turner to the bench.
I worry about Hogg at 10. It looks as if we're planning on running everything off 9.

Squad is up!

Really exciting backline and I wonder when Hogg last started at 10? Was that against one of the Italian teams for Glasgow?

Basics first, but this will probably be highly entertaining game if the weather is bright and sunny on Saturday as predicted.

Hogg has not played that much at FH, but he has done recently as a stand in for Scotland, so I don't think he will be out of place, he often plays first receiver for Exeter as well.

It is a devastating looking backline, who really aught to be able to do some damage, justy as long as they don't do the headless chicken.

You would imagine they would hope to get the game wrapped up then get a few of them off and wrapped up in cotton wool.

Really pleased to see Shuggy back in the starting shirt and well done to Scott Steele, who deserves a run out at SH after all he has been through on the wing and on the flank!

Maybe a tournament to soon for Dobie then, but his time will certainly come. Glasgow will be glad to have him on sunday afternoon.

I like the look of that team and glad that he has gone for Hoggy at 10 - I really don't think VDW is a long term prospect at 10 so I don't see much sense paying him there for any sort of development reason.

Has anybody seen much of Alex Craig - he looks a big, athletic unit but I haven't seen enough of him to comment.

So, in simplistic rugbyfordummies terms; we have a big front five, a fast back row, backs who can run tries in from anywhere , while they have a suspect pack and a defence which tends to fold in on itself. So, smash it up the middle once or twice then run off 9 looking for quick ball for the next strike runner. The backs will be lining up like Harrier jets on the Ark Royal.
As long as Italy allow us to have lots of possession.

jimbopip wrote:So, in simplistic rugbyfordummies terms; we have a big front five, a fast back row, backs who can run tries in from anywhere , while they have a suspect pack and a defence which tends to fold in on itself. So, smash it up the middle once or twice then run off 9 looking for quick ball for the next strike runner. The backs will be lining up like Harrier jets on the Ark Royal.
As long as Italy allow us to have lots of possession.

Italy seem to save their performance for us That’s the first thing.

The second thing is we seem to be pulling tries out of thin air right now, it's just our discipline has resulted in teams managing to pip us to the win.

So what does this mean for Saturday?

How’s this for a prediction - The Highest ever combined score in a 6ns match!

I', honestly thinking that eve without the finnsanity this is going to be an utterly bonkers game devoid of set piece and platform with both teams chucking the ball about trying desperately not to be tackled.

Italy 41 - Scotland 63

I like your logic tigerT.
However Italy have dropped Canna and seem to be playing a12 at 12. This late change could throw Toonie's finely calibrated gameplan out of balance. So Italy 42- Scotland 62. Or Italy 9 - Scotland 3.

True Jim true.

But we will score at least 3 tires against Italy.

I just don’t know how many they’ll get on us. Especially once we get reduced to 14 (yellow or red)

Ringrose has been dropped for Ireland vs England. Jones has a big opportunity to impress this weekend at 13 and potentially slingshot himself into Lions contention. That would be just reward for missing out on the RWC in 2019 and before he heads to sunnier climes. Gatland must surely have noticed his try at Murrayfield last weekend.

A Townsend selection I’m actually excited about, well there’s a thing. So happy that Huw is finally back where he belongs.

It’s going to be unfamiliar and edgy at times, particularly with Hoggy at 10, but if we keep playing for 80 minutes we won’t be in danger of losing to this Italian side

RDW wrote:Morning Jim. It's actually evening here but I know you don't like me mixing up timezones.

You are dead right that it's a classic Scottish sporting trait that we struggle to put away teams that we should best easily. Saying that, we've generally had Italy's number in recent years, particularly at home. Anything less than a 15 point win really would be disappointing.

But this is Scotland, and they always find new ways to disappoint us.

Where are you based :O?

Also, it sounds like France game is still not confirmed for Friday yet which seems ludicrous, no doubt that means EPL clubs are causing chaos by playing hardball on releasing players!

Really hoping it gets confirmed sooner rather than later.

Highland Shaun wrote:

Also, it sounds like France game is still not confirmed for Friday yet which seems ludicrous, no doubt that means EPL clubs are causing chaos by playing hardball on releasing players!

Really hoping it gets confirmed sooner rather than later.

It has now just been conformed.

Next friday, 8PM KO

Highland Shaun wrote:

RDW wrote:Morning Jim. It's actually evening here but I know you don't like me mixing up timezones.

You are dead right that it's a classic Scottish sporting trait that we struggle to put away teams that we should best easily. Saying that, we've generally had Italy's number in recent years, particularly at home. Anything less than a 15 point win really would be disappointing.

But this is Scotland, and they always find new ways to disappoint us.

Where are you based :O?

Also, it sounds like France game is still not confirmed for Friday yet which seems ludicrous, no doubt that means EPL clubs are causing chaos by playing hardball on releasing players!

Really hoping it gets confirmed sooner rather than later.

Australia!

BigGee wrote:

Highland Shaun wrote:

Also, it sounds like France game is still not confirmed for Friday yet which seems ludicrous, no doubt that means EPL clubs are causing chaos by playing hardball on releasing players!

Really hoping it gets confirmed sooner rather than later.

It has now just been conformed.

Next friday, 8PM KO

Excellent - I'll actually be able to watch that!