France Autumn Series 2021

First topic message reminder :

The French team for the upcoming test against Argentina has been announced. With the recent return to club action of Virimi Vakatawa, Fabien Galthie has chosen to rest the big man and take the opportunity to try out his two recent 10's at 10 and 12. This could  make an already dangerous back line even more formidable:

Melvyn Jaminet;
Damian Penaud,
Gael Fickou,
Romain Ntamack,
Gabin Villière;
Matthieu Jalibert,
Antoine Dupont;
Cyril Baille,
Julien Marchand,
Mohamed Haouas,
Thibaud Flament,
Paul Willemse,
François Cros,
Cameron Woki,
Anthony Jelonch.

Replacements: Peato Mauvaka, Jean-Baptiste Gros, Demba Bamba, Romain Taofifenua, Gregory Alldritt, Sekou Macalou, Maxime Lucu, Jonathan Danty.

Thibualt Flament is rewarded for his excellent club form with Toulouse last season and this.
Cameron Woki has forced his way into the starting team after outstanding displays on the tour of Australia in the summer.
Francois Cros returns at 7 after returning from injury and Anthony Jelonch starts at 8, allowing Greg Aldritt to make an impact from the bench in the final third.
Melvyn Jaminet gets the chance to see if he can replicate his summer form and Gabin Villière is in having just recovered from a leg injury. Villière may be short in stature but a bit like Dupont he is immensely powerful in the contact and a try scoring machine.
This is one of the lightest back lines France have put out in recent years(Dupont, Jalibert, Ntamack, Villière and Jaminet all weigh under 90 kg) but it has pace, and skill, to burn. The question is: will the forwards give them the platform they need to do their stuff?

Game on again

What a response from the ABs. Their pack has really brought it this half like they haven't shown for a long time.

France may have awoken a monster!

France have gone asleep too though

Wow.

They've certainly woken up after that Ntmack run!

Fair yellow for Saves but the Kiwis will be asking why France didn't get one earlier when they were giving away so many pens in their 22.

That's a massive swing in momentum!

Brilliant from Ntamack but poor from Woki, should have used the width.

Wiki had to give that pass but what a break out from Ntamack

Penaaauuuuuuuuuddddddd!!;!!

Woki has been good today despite that error

This French team is frightening. Will they manage to avoid the massive meltdowns in the future that has blighted them for so many years?

When did the NH last do a clean sweep over the Sh?

Eng v Sa
Wales v Aus
Fra v NZ

What a boring afternoon's rugby this has been.

Maybe showing some growth or luck but France steading the ship and getting back on top unlike previous games

Jaminet has run some great lines in the last 20 minutes. Woki is a bit rough round the edges but the potential he has is sky high, there's not much he can't do.

Aside from a 15 minute period where poor refereeing decisions went against them, the French have been dominant.

Well done France - totally outplayed NZ

Brilliant from France. The decade will belong to them.

Five defeats in this calendar year for NZ, first time that's happened since 1998.

GeordieFalcon wrote:When did the NH last do a clean sweep over the Sh?

Eng v Sa
Wales v Aus
Fra v NZ

2002

The big difference is the NH don't have to have a massive game and the SH have an off day.  Games were tight though.

For me SA are out ahead of everyone despite today.  Then you have in one pack NZ, Eng, Ire, Fra, then further back in Oz, Sco, Wal.

The bench were immense for France. The strength in depth is phenomenal when you think Vakatawa and Ollivon were not playing tonight.

South Africa weren't that great during the rugby championship and haven't been that impressive during the autumn either. They're a good team but by no means are they out of ahead of the rest, you have 5/6 teams who can all beat each other on their day now.

Well done France, good side, Du Ponts a return to the good halves we’ve seen in the NH. ABs have struggled all year and this now the first time we’ve lost two tests on a NH trip since 1936.
To lose straight after last weeks loss won’t go well for fozzie who won’t enjoy his summer. Call for Razor will be loud over the next six months. If we are to not have fozzie next World Cup that’s gotta be his last test.
I’d put Razor and Schmidt and drop the current panel.
Well done France, some lovely running rugby, hard driving and in DuPont a very special player.

Dupont is the best player in the world for me. Kolbe is up there but the nature of playing on the wing means there are some games that pass him by and he only gets a few touches. But Dupont consistently has huge influence from 9.

However Ntamack was perhaps even more sparkling tonight, the premier 10 in the NH for me and rivalling the likes of Beauden, Mo'unga and Pollard too.

Taylorman wrote:Well done France, good side, Du Ponts a return to the good halves we’ve seen in the NH. ABs have struggled all year and this now the first time we’ve lost two tests on a NH trip since 1936.

1953/54 but still a phenomenal record.

Fabuloso! Awesome game! Well done France! Amazing win

Soul Requiem wrote:South Africa weren't that great during the rugby championship and haven't been that impressive during the autumn either. They're a good team but by no means are they out of ahead of the rest, you have 5/6 teams who can all beat each other on their day now.

England got lucky today.  Everyone is struggling to match the SA pack up front and at scrum time especially when their second pack comes on.  The longer they are together the better they get.  Only Oz outplayed them but I would be confident they have learned from that.  I think the Scotland game showed they have learned with the running game.

They have moved away from their kick all the time game and are starting to move it wide a bit more so plan is evolving.

Duty281 wrote:Brilliant from France. The decade will belong to them.

Five defeats in this calendar year for NZ, first time that's happened since 1998.

Ha. Not sure on that. Maybe against NZ but can't see them winning more 6Ns than any other nation.

I didn't see them move the ball wide much today and it's a cop out to say England got lucky, they should have been out of sight by half time.

Good win from France. Ntamack at 10 for France seems to work much better than at 12. They have so much talent at 10 though I can see them trying him at 12 a few more times before calling time on the experiment. Woki at lock will work against most sides but not sure he will survive against SA's and Ireland's packs at scrumtime.

NZ have the talent and 2 years to get it right before the RWC. Plenty of time to sort it out. Outside of A Savea, the backrow needs a rethink and some fresh blood at lock to push Whitelock/Retallick is still desperately needed.

France were awesome. Really exciting Rugby.

Reminded me of that Ireland-NZ match from a few years ago played in Chicago. Ireland got ahead by a couple of scores, then in the second half the ABs do what they always do which is come storming back. But Ireland held their nerve and closed it out. Interestingly the score line was almost the same:
Today France 40 - ABs 25
2016: Ireland 40 - ABs 29

Not sure how much of the performances of the SH teams was due to being away from home for 4 months or so and living in various bubbles. But these were great games on all sides and looks like the next two years leading up to the RWC will be something.

One of those games where everything stuck and nobody on the French team could do anything wrong. NZ will be fairly shell shocked that they walked into that. Must be one of the problems with being the ABs - teams will always want to be at their very best that afternoon.

Quality throughout that French team now and the bench is now particularly impactful.

It's going to be quite the Six Nations.

Soul Requiem wrote:South Africa weren't that great during the rugby championship and haven't been that impressive during the autumn either. They're a good team but by no means are they out of ahead of the rest, you have 5/6 teams who can all beat each other on their day now.

I assume Wales is one of those 5/6 teams…

mikey_dragon wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:South Africa weren't that great during the rugby championship and haven't been that impressive during the autumn either. They're a good team but by no means are they out of ahead of the rest, you have 5/6 teams who can all beat each other on their day now.

I assume Wales is one of those 5/6 teams…

Do you think they are Mickey as a Welsh fan? Do you see Wales being able to turn over SA & NZ?

I would say that NZ, SA, Oz, Ireland, England, France - are all able to beat each other on their day. Sadly our (Wales) in ability to beat NZ, ever, puts us outside that group. If you ignore NZ from the above group then yes perhaps Wales could be included as we can beat them all ‘on our day’ and have done so recently. But not NZ, unfortunately

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:South Africa weren't that great during the rugby championship and haven't been that impressive during the autumn either. They're a good team but by no means are they out of ahead of the rest, you have 5/6 teams who can all beat each other on their day now.

I assume Wales is one of those 5/6 teams…

Do you think they are Mickey as a Welsh fan? Do you see Wales being able to turn over SA & NZ?

We can beat anyone on our day…..

Well NZ would disagree!

Only messing...I think Wales are stronger than Aus personally and if you played NZ as much as they do, you'd have plenty of numbers on the board.

I honestly think we have a bit of a split in this

NZ
SA
England
France
Ireland

And just below, in order....

Wales
Australia
Scotland

I think Wales are transitioning somewhat from a great group of players. Aus are a bit meh, but can spring a surprise....and Scotland seem to be slowly getting there.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:South Africa weren't that great during the rugby championship and haven't been that impressive during the autumn either. They're a good team but by no means are they out of ahead of the rest, you have 5/6 teams who can all beat each other on their day now.

I assume Wales is one of those 5/6 teams…

Yes and no, they can seemingly beat or run close any team other than New Zealand for some reason.

South Africa
Ireland
France
New Zealand
England
Australia
Wales
Scotland

The order I'd go for right now. Many caveats to that however, I'd expect England to beat Australia every time but about 50/50 against Wales for instance.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well NZ would disagree!

Only messing...I think Wales are stronger than Aus personally and if you played NZ as much as they do, you'd have plenty of numbers on the board.

I honestly think we have a bit of a split in this

NZ
SA
England
France
Ireland

And just below, in order....

Wales
Australia
Scotland

I think Wales are transitioning somewhat from a great group of players. Aus are a bit meh, but can spring a surprise....and Scotland seem to be slowly getting there.

To be fair to Scotland, we're 3 in a row against Australia now! But they can beat SA and NZ, and we can't...

I agree with that split though. The top 5 could all beat each other and have a reasonable chance of winning the WC on their current form.

That 2nd group all have the ability to step up on their day but less likely than the first group right now. That could change though and it's still a long way to go to the WC.

There's then a reasonable gap to Argentina in a 3rd group with Fiji, and a vast chasm to Italy..

RDW wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well NZ would disagree!

Only messing...I think Wales are stronger than Aus personally and if you played NZ as much as they do, you'd have plenty of numbers on the board.

I honestly think we have a bit of a split in this

NZ
SA
England
France
Ireland

And just below, in order....

Wales
Australia
Scotland

I think Wales are transitioning somewhat from a great group of players. Aus are a bit meh, but can spring a surprise....and Scotland seem to be slowly getting there.

To be fair to Scotland, we're 3 in a row against Australia now! But they can beat SA and NZ, and we can't...

I agree with that split though. The top 5 could all beat each other and have a reasonable chance of winning the WC on their current form.

That 2nd group all have the ability to step up on their day but less likely than the first group right now. That could change though and it's still a long way to go to the WC.

There's then a reasonable gap to Argentina in a 3rd group with Fiji, and a vast chasm to Italy..

Believe it or not Wales are 3 in a row vs Oz too now!

Aye but have been put ahead of them in that list unlike Scotland!

But hand on heart I think it is the correct order, just thought I'd mention it

Ah, I see! Didn’t notice the order of ‘group 2’. Actually, I wouldn’t have Wales above Oz. Although we’re 3 from 3 I still feel they’re much the better team

Current list

# Team Points
1 South Africa 90.61 (-1.22)
2 New Zealand 88.75 (-1.28)
3 England 87.83 (+1.22)
4 Ireland 86.53 (+0.23)
5 (↑6) France 85.53 (+1.28)
6 (↓5) Australia 83.92 (-1.17)
7 Scotland 83.05 (+0.28)
8 (↑9) Wales 81.56 (+1.17)
9 (↓8) Argentina 80.58 (-0.23)
10 Japan 78.26 (-0.28)

Soul Requiem wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:South Africa weren't that great during the rugby championship and haven't been that impressive during the autumn either. They're a good team but by no means are they out of ahead of the rest, you have 5/6 teams who can all beat each other on their day now.

I assume Wales is one of those 5/6 teams…

Yes and no, they can seemingly beat or run close any team other than New Zealand for some reason.

South Africa
Ireland
France
New Zealand
England
Australia
Wales
Scotland

The order I'd go for right now. Many caveats to that however, I'd expect England to beat Australia every time but about 50/50 against Wales for instance.

Well Wales on their day can beat anyone… but we aren’t anywhere near France, England and Ireland right now. Thumping win for France btw.

Is anyone else worried for Australia, they seem to be getting slightly worse year on year, where other countries have maybe a "blip", they seem to be in a slow but steady and definite decline.

Irish Londoner wrote:Is anyone else worried for Australia, they seem to be getting slightly worse year on year, where other countries have maybe a "blip", they seem to be in a slow but steady and definite decline.

It is difficult because they don't seem to have much depth so seeing them without a few of their best players may not give the best picture. All of the SH teams have been on the road for a long time under difficult circumstances (bubbles?) which will not help. I am aware that amongst the many reasons England were poor in the 6N being in a bubble was definitely one of them.

I finally got round to watching the game and it was fun. Brutal though. The sound of the collisions echoing around the stadium was quite something.

The French back row chopped down everything. I am not completely convinced overall though. Woki is a fantastic athlete, but should of passed in the move that lead to Savea's YC. The hooker is handy and was terrific for his try, but the lineouts were not perfect ( vs AB's that can be a problem) and also managed to concede two really dumb penalties coming around the wrong side of a maul within a couple of minutes.

The 6N is going to be really hard.

Irish Londoner wrote:Is anyone else worried for Australia, they seem to be getting slightly worse year on year, where other countries have maybe a "blip", they seem to be in a slow but steady and definite decline.

Union does have big competition over there....League, AFL, and now football is growing quickly........