Wales International: games, squads, tournaments, chat - 2021/22

A place to chat about everything ‘Wales’ going forward.

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First up: South Africa 6th November 2021

Wales: Johnny McNicholl; Louis Rees-Zammit, Jonathan Davies (capt), Nick Tompkins, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Tomos Williams; Rhys Carre, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Will Rowlands, Adam Beard, Ellis Jenkins, Taine Basham, Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: Bradley Roberts, Wyn Jones, WillGriff John, Ben Carter, Seb Davies, Gareth Davies, Gareth Anscombe, Liam Williams.

South Africa: Damian Willemse; Jesse Kriel, Lukhanyo Am, Damian de Allende, Makazole Mapimpi; Handre Pollard, Herschel Jantjies; Ox Nche, Bongi Mbonambi, Trevor Nyakane, Eben Etzebeth, Lood De Jager, Siya Kolisi (capt), Kwagga Smith, Duane Vermeulen.

Replacements: Malcolm Marx, Steven Kitshoff, Vincent Koch, Franco Mostert, Jasper Wiese, Cobus Reinach, Elton Jantjies, Frans Steyn.

Wales are on a 4-0 winning streak in the Autumn Games but SA have often headed north depleted. South Africa though won the last encounter, arguably when it mattered more, in the World Cup semi final. A close fought 16-19 win for SA before going on to win the WC.

Yep, something the Boks need to address, prior to 2015 Wales have only won one test vs SA, the opening match at the Principality in 1999.

Old Man wrote:Yep, something the Boks need to address, prior to 2015 Wales have only won one test vs SA, the opening match at the Principality in 1999.

Yes the fortunes of the Welsh really started to improve during the Gatland era with a number of close losses for us before 2015 before getting the ‘monkey off our back’ and some nice wins in the last 4 years. I remember some nice away fixtures during the summer too that had some close results. We were so close the one game in SA until (I think from memory) Liam Williams flew across and did a kamikaze cover tackle on the wing and got yellow carded and gave away a penalty try! Heart breaking result that one as I was convinced we were on the verge of winning

Super sport pundits not happy how the line outs are being officated.

Wales managed to keep Nche in that ruck long enough to con a penalty

Didn’t try hard to get out the way did he?

Not when you are held in by two players

You at least wriggle a bit to show the ref you are trying. Nche was a bit too passive just lying there in the way.

nah.

The defenders have every right to go in on top of him to secure the ruck.  If he’s in there and makes it unplayable then penalty.  Cyclical play from Nche.  Just lying there with his ar$e facing our scrum half. Biggar got pinged for the same a few minutes later but he went to ground, rolled to the side and the ball was playable. THAT was a poor decision.

He’s been very whistle happy this ref, but consistently so for each team I feel.

Frans Styne has made a big difference.

Wonder if the bench will be Wales downfall.  Scrum is a mess and only going to get worse

I guess the fans aren't the Home team's 16th man today

Ellis Jenkins our man of the match so far.

Idiots!

No try.  Interesting.  Not retiring from the kick.

Fine margins.

Not sure what Habana is complaining about there, the referee explained his call and was spot on.

Welsh Scrum not going well

Still think there will be a few turns. Big miss

Brendan wrote:Welsh Scrum not going well

Few do against the Boks. Being able to bring Kitshoff, Marx and Koch on in the second half is ridiculous depth.

Frans Steyn would be my MOTM

Ah well, well done SA.

Thought we’d get pumped in this game like we did v NZ so I’m generally happier with the performance. Not bad for 9th in the world vs 2.  But lots to work on for Wales.  Scrum, as we knew, is an issue.  Not an easy fix.

Not a spectacle of a match though, much of a lottery when it is just penalty after penalty

That one felt much like the Lions tour again, real arm wrestle with not a lot of backline play. Great test match though and you have to feel bad for Wales fans. Boks bench made a big difference in that final 15 mins, gutsy performance from the Welsh players though.

Wales just not strong enough off the bench.  Scrum and maul defence were the two big problems in the second half.  Not sure if Wales had any SA put in at the scrum in the second half that wasn't a penalty.

Old Man with the ref chat?!  Surely not?!

Was anybody's game really. Could easily have gone the other way. Overall a match full of errors.

That "fan" maybe cost the game for Wales (though felt SA could have got a second try at the end).

Wales were on top and would have been 8-10 points ahead.  Instead they were only 6.  But if SA were 10 behind Stynes kick goes to the corner for a maul so maybe swings and roundabouts.

Frans Steyn really impressed me, ran, sidestepped, broke the defence, kicked well and he is as slow as an ox

Congrats, C.

Agree these games are sometimes too much of a lottery, some great skills (as well as some dark ones) but you never know which way the ref will blow it up and award which team a free kick or penalty. Makes it very hard to watch; much less enjoy like we used to.

Great day for SA nonetheless. A brave and gutsy win in the t20 cricket too. I feel slightly guilty Aus got through at SA's expense but that was a thoroughly deserved win... and hard earned... just like this one.

I hope Reinach starts next match, Jantjies is even more pedantic behind the ruck than Faf, I literally want to Poopie myself when we have those slow rucks

Brendan wrote:That "fan" maybe cost the game for Wales (though felt SA could have got a second try at the end).

Wales were on top and would have been 8-10 points ahead.  Instead they were only 6.  But if SA were 10 behind Stynes kick goes to the corner for a maul so maybe swings and roundabouts.

Nah.  Don’t think it affected anything.  Liam Williams needed to reach behind himself for the pass anyway, regardless of the pitch invader on the ground.  And the cover tacklers were there anyway.

Pal Joey wrote:Congrats, C.

Agree these games are sometimes too much of a lottery, some great skills (as well as some dark ones) but you never know which way the ref will blow it up and award which team a free kick or penalty. Makes it very hard to watch; much less enjoy like we used to.

Great day for SA nonetheless. A brave and gutsy win in the t20 cricket too. I feel slightly guilty Aus got through at SA's expense but that was a thoroughly deserved win... and hard earned... just like this one.

Thanks T, I am getting tired of our game plan though, very frustrating to watch. As for the cricket, OZ beat us, that is enough validation for me mate. Good luck in the semi's.

Old Man wrote:Was anybody's game really. Could easily have gone the other way. Overall a match full of errors.

To be fair every time the kicker scored a penalty and got the close up running back looked like he was squinting to keep the rain out of his eyes.

Big turning point for me was when Styne started running ball back and making good ground.  Wales then stopped kicking so long which meant more hand to hand combat which SA will eat up all day.  Not the only reason but shorter kicks mean less gain if you don't get the ball back and less for the opposition to run back in.

Also doesn't help when you are bringing on a backup Ulster Hooker.  Injuries to key players before the games started the biggest problem for Wales.

Brendan wrote:

Old Man wrote:Was anybody's game really. Could easily have gone the other way. Overall a match full of errors.

To be fair every time the kicker scored a penalty and got the close up running back looked like he was squinting to keep the rain out of his eyes.

Big turning point for me was when Styne started running ball back and making good ground.  Wales then stopped kicking so long which meant more hand to hand combat which SA will eat up all day.  Not the only reason but shorter kicks mean less gain if you don't get the ball back and less for the opposition to run back in.

Also doesn't help when you are bringing on a backup Ulster Hooker.  Injuries to key players before the games started the biggest problem for Wales.

Yeah injuries play a massive role these days. What concerns me about the Boks is our depth isn't as deep as we might think.

Front rows seems OK, the big challenge there was to find a replacement for Beast. I think Nche is that guy. Although Nyakane in my view is a better loosehead, but due to nobody stepping up he now plays at three.

Our lock stock requires an extra player, Etzebeth and De Jager has been solid this season, but with RG Snyman out (again) the only tested back up is Mostert, Moerat is a youngster brought onto the tour, we need to give him game time to see whether he is that man, Orie in my view doesn't have enough physicality although he is a good line out operator.

We are missing Pieter Steph du Toit badly, It seems Nienaber has settled on Kwagga Smith who is bravely filling the role. I don't like Wiese, he cost us two penalties in two matches in the RC, both in thelast minutes and we lost both those matches.

Marco van Staden is a much better player. But can't seem to get enough game time.

We have had four scrumhalves this season, and two of them are injured.

Fly half we have a serious problem,

Midfield is OK, but I don't understand why Esterhuizen isn't getting called up.

In the back three Nienaber keeps on selecting the wrong players. Fassi is a rare talent, but they keep selecting Willemse who doesn't handle pressure well.

Overall the squad is building, but our game plan sucks.

Well that guy who was saying Pivac should keep his job based on the 6 nations looks a bit silly right now. Another disaster autumn for Wales, another loss for Pivac - his record is absolutely awful. #PivacOut

mikey_dragon wrote:Well that guy who was saying Pivac should keep his job based on the 6 nations looks a bit silly right now. Another disaster autumn for Wales, another loss for Pivac - his record is absolutely awful. #PivacOut

Wasn't Gatland the same.  He would win grand slams then lose the Summer and AI tours.

Last week they weren't as bad as they appeared.  Still has time to sort things out.  If he loses to Oz the doubts set back in again.

Is Pivac really that bad?

Last week he had a few unavailable, then lost 2 of his most experienced forwards during play.

This week in a drizzley rain game he put out a team to match the World champions, and sure he came second but he brought some new players into the International squad, hopefully they can kick on from this week against Fiji, then have a crack at Australia at home - not the end of the World.

If he loses to Fiji he's got a problem.

Brendan wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Well that guy who was saying Pivac should keep his job based on the 6 nations looks a bit silly right now. Another disaster autumn for Wales, another loss for Pivac - his record is absolutely awful. #PivacOut

Wasn't Gatland the same.  He would win grand slams then lose the Summer and AI tours.

Last week they weren't as bad as they appeared.  Still has time to sort things out.  If he loses to Oz the doubts set back in again.

Go and look at Pivac’s results since he took over.

The point is that with Gatland, he eventually took us to No.1, and now we aren’t anywhere near that. Such a fall can be attributed to the coaching staff IMO.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Brendan wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Well that guy who was saying Pivac should keep his job based on the 6 nations looks a bit silly right now. Another disaster autumn for Wales, another loss for Pivac - his record is absolutely awful. #PivacOut

Wasn't Gatland the same.  He would win grand slams then lose the Summer and AI tours.

Last week they weren't as bad as they appeared.  Still has time to sort things out.  If he loses to Oz the doubts set back in again.

Go and look at Pivac’s results since he took over.

The point is that with Gatland, he eventually took us to No.1, and now we aren’t anywhere near that. Such a fall can be attributed to the coaching staff IMO.

How long has Pivac been coach in comparison to Gatland though?

mikey_dragon wrote:Well that guy who was saying Pivac should keep his job based on the 6 nations looks a bit silly right now. Another disaster autumn for Wales, another loss for Pivac - his record is absolutely awful. #PivacOut

Jeez...is Pivac this universally disliked?

You've just won the 6N and pushed the world champions right till the end. What more do you want????

Was that clown who ran on the pitch a Welsh fan?

If he was, he probably better be packing his bags and moving a long way away!

I hope the police were not gentle with him!


To be fair. the security guys dealt with it very well I though and brought him down very quickly and before he reached any players. There was not a lot else they could have done but this is going to spoil games if we are not careful, it may have had an effect on this one!

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Well that guy who was saying Pivac should keep his job based on the 6 nations looks a bit silly right now. Another disaster autumn for Wales, another loss for Pivac - his record is absolutely awful. #PivacOut

Jeez...is Pivac this universally disliked?  

You've just won the 6N and pushed the world champions right till the end. What more do you want????

Why do I keep having to come back here stating the obvious. I’ve never met Pivac, I don’t dislike him. I know a lot of others have been questioning him and his methods for a while though. To me it’s clearly not working.

Yes we won a few games in the 6N because of red cards, then Scotland beat France for us.

SA are world class, but I’ve never seen us splintered like that up front. It’ll be interesting to see how everyone else does against them.

It was more a generic question rather than specifically aimed at you Mikey. Wales seem to be coming along quite nicely I thought, it's not like you're exactly blessed with an amazing set of players at the minute imo (unlike previous sides).

Oh okay then fair enough. But yeah, not only the win and loss ratio, but the margin of some of the losses since Pivac come in have been quite bad. I wasn’t that convinced during the 6N, where we actually had most or all of our best players available and still looked very average at times. Something isn’t quite right, Wyn Jones and Francis are very good for their regions, then again Pivac did hire Humphries. He also left our strongest LH in swansea.

https://twitter.com/GavinCurnow/status/1457108289590894594

Fans showing what they thought of the idiot!

BigGee wrote:https://twitter.com/GavinCurnow/status/1457108289590894594

Fans showing what they thought of the idiot!

He would have left Wales right away if he values his life!

I’ve seen a video of him getting ready to do the deed. Seems his mate dared him and bet him some money to do it, and then filmed him walking down the steps, pretending to find his seat on the front row, and then jumping the barrier. In fairness security tackled him to the ground within a few seconds of him being on the pitch, just unfortunate that it was where our play ended up at that point. Absolute weapon!