Wales International: games, squads, tournaments, chat - 2021/22

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A place to chat about everything ‘Wales’ going forward.

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First up: South Africa 6th November 2021

Wales: Johnny McNicholl; Louis Rees-Zammit, Jonathan Davies (capt), Nick Tompkins, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Tomos Williams; Rhys Carre, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Will Rowlands, Adam Beard, Ellis Jenkins, Taine Basham, Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: Bradley Roberts, Wyn Jones, WillGriff John, Ben Carter, Seb Davies, Gareth Davies, Gareth Anscombe, Liam Williams.

South Africa: Damian Willemse; Jesse Kriel, Lukhanyo Am, Damian de Allende, Makazole Mapimpi; Handre Pollard, Herschel Jantjies; Ox Nche, Bongi Mbonambi, Trevor Nyakane, Eben Etzebeth, Lood De Jager, Siya Kolisi (capt), Kwagga Smith, Duane Vermeulen.

Replacements: Malcolm Marx, Steven Kitshoff, Vincent Koch, Franco Mostert, Jasper Wiese, Cobus Reinach, Elton Jantjies, Frans Steyn.

I think it’s Tompkins and Halaholo to start, and I’d swap them around so Halaholo is at 13. Biggar at 10 but I would partner him with Gareth Davies. I think Ellis Jenkins will be captain although I wouldn’t be playing three open-sides in the back-row. Maybe put Shingler in if he’s available and we need some more senior players to come in. Ospreys front row (if available) to start for me.

Seb Davies doesn’t make my 23.

The Oracle wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Who will be Captain for Wales this 6mations?
my choice would of been Ken Owens. but i see he is injured.

Possibly JD2 if he is fit, although he is a bit past it now but doesn’t really have any challengers to his place in the team (sadly).  Possibly Ellis Jenkins but he plays in a very competitive position. Either of those would be my choice in the absence of AWJ and Ken. I’d probably go for Ellis out of the two.

How's Johnny Williams been getting on? I presumed he'd be Wales long term option at 12 which is I think where JD2 has been deployed for you guys since his speed went. Williams is a bit like a quicker Parkes so I thought he'd slot in well.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Who will be Captain for Wales this 6mations?
my choice would of been Ken Owens. but i see he is injured.

Possibly JD2 if he is fit, although he is a bit past it now but doesn’t really have any challengers to his place in the team (sadly).  Possibly Ellis Jenkins but he plays in a very competitive position. Either of those would be my choice in the absence of AWJ and Ken. I’d probably go for Ellis out of the two.

How's Johnny Williams been getting on? I presumed he'd be Wales long term option at 12 which is I think where JD2 has been deployed for you guys since his speed went. Williams is a bit like a quicker Parkes so I thought he'd slot in well.

He hasn't set the world on fire. But a bit difficult in a backline that is struggling to get going. Which is why I wonder if Pivac will settle for the solid if unspectacular JD2 who we can (I hope) rely on at least for his defense. I personally feel we need to move on from him (unless he comes into a rich vein of form, of course). Been a great servant but as you say he's lost his speed and offers little else in attack.

The issue is that none of the top centres are really doing much to to oust JD2, in my opinion:

Tompkins - I like him and that style of centre. However, he's been a bit erratic at international level and defense is questionable.
Halaholo - I was keen for him to be called up but he has struggled to show club form at international level. Just hasn't got the same space and does not seem to be able to wriggle through and create things like he does for Cardiff. Can't remember him doing much of note for Wales so far.
Jonny Williams - as above nothing really of note.
JD2 - defensive organiser but losing his pace and offers little in attack.

I appreciate that a lot of this is not their fault. The forwards play their part in providing quick and clean ball which perhaps we're not getting; the half backs bring the back line onto the ball so requires quick work and coordination. When that's not working you need someone at centre who can either break the gainline by force (a la Jamie Roberts in his pomp) or someone who can create something from nothing with fancy footwork and amazing acceleration from a standing start. I'm not sure JD2 is able to provide the crash ball option that we need. Topkins and Halaholo seem capable of the fancy footwook and elusiveness needed but haven't really shown it so far. I haven't seen enough of Williams to know whether he can do it either.

Beyond that the centre cupboard is a little bare, hence the experiments with bringing Josh Adams into midfield. I'm not against it necessarily as long as his wing replacement is just as good. No point weakening wing just to fill in the centres.

Longer term and injury-wise I still think North is a great option from 13. It's just that the jury is out (for me) on who the long term 12 partner(s) should be and who takes over the 13 jersey in his absence.

Sam Davies and Rosser destroyed JD2 when he played 13 against us, we kept attacking that channel and ended up putting 50 on them. JD2 at 13 for Wales is a big no for me. Fair play to BOD; he aged, lost his pace and was still the best 13 in the world.

Johnny Williams has been injured a lot unfortunately, but what I've seen of him at the Scarlets he is pretty good. He has had limited game time for Wales but has occassionally looked good.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/wales/59989296

I think we'll be playing at home in front of full crowds if it goes according to plan.

If they're available, 6 front-row forwards need to come from Ospreys.

LH: Gareth Thomas, Nicky Smith
Hooker: Dewi Lake, Sam Parry
TH: Tomas Francis, Tom Botha (I did say if available).

Watch Pivac not listen to me and pick Rhodri Jones and all his Scarlets' players... And why he's rumoured to be picking Faletau I do not know.

Front row & second rows concern me, the centres too but if we don't have a decent platform it doesn't really matter who we play in the centre! I think the 3 LH's should be Wyn Jones, Thomas & Smith but he will picking Carre I imagine.

Which bit concerns you? Ospreys have had a dominant scrum against top opposition to date, so for me that's a no-brainer. Hopefully Humphries doens't balls it all up. If we don't pick Seb Davies we'll be okay at lock. I wouldn't pick Carre over who I have mentioned but previously we did select 4 LH's, I think. Elias will go for sure, but for me he's third/fourth choice at best.

Elias had a good autumn I thought, credit where it's due.

He was okay by the end of the autumn, but one or two games hasn't convinced me that he is better than third or fourth choice. I think Pivac will pick him to start anyway.

He has been good in the loose for us Scarlets but he isn't doing his bread & butter which is accuracy in the lineout.

mikey_dragon wrote:Which bit concerns you? Ospreys have had a dominant scrum against top opposition to date, so for me that's a no-brainer. Hopefully Humphries doens't balls it all up. If we don't pick Seb Davies we'll be okay at lock. I wouldn't pick Carre over who I have mentioned but previously we did select 4 LH's, I think. Elias will go for sure, but for me he's third/fourth choice at best.

What concerns me is we don't have any enforcers at lock who are heavy enough to be a ballast at scrum time. I think the LH's we have mentioned are all roughly equal though I do think Wyn Jones (when fit & firing) is ahead of anyone else. TH is yearning for someone to come out & provide some competition behind Francis.

Oakdene wrote:He has been good in the loose for us Scarlets but he isn't doing his bread & butter which is accuracy in the lineout.

Ah right. That was his main improvement in the autumn. That's not good news!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Oakdene wrote:He has been good in the loose for us Scarlets but he isn't doing his bread & butter which is accuracy in the lineout.

Ah right. That was his main improvement in the autumn. That's not good news!

No it's not the best news really. Our lineout was shaky at best on the weekend.

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Which bit concerns you? Ospreys have had a dominant scrum against top opposition to date, so for me that's a no-brainer. Hopefully Humphries doens't balls it all up. If we don't pick Seb Davies we'll be okay at lock. I wouldn't pick Carre over who I have mentioned but previously we did select 4 LH's, I think. Elias will go for sure, but for me he's third/fourth choice at best.

What concerns me is we don't have any enforcers at lock who are heavy enough to be a ballast at scrum time. I think the LH's we have mentioned are all roughly equal though I do think Wyn Jones (when fit & firing) is ahead of anyone else. TH is yearning for someone to come out & provide some competition behind Francis.

Well Beard and Rowlands are over 120kg, how heavy should they be? It's not often you see an international lock over 125kg. Agree on TH, it has to be Botha, he's such a strong scrummager. I don't think Wyn Jones should start over any of the Ospreys pair on form, that unit is too good to be broken up. Our most accurate lineout thrower is Owens... after him I'm not sure who the best is as they have all struggled at times.

Taylor Davies is much improved since he start playing regularly for us but I'm not sure if he's in contention?

I read that Taylor Davies had a bit of a poor game on the weekend? I think he has done okay for Dragons this season, but I did see a few Dragons supporters say they don't think the move is working out.

The referees for the tournament have been announced:

https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2022/01/17/refereeing-appointments-announced-for-2022-guinness-six-nations/

Ireland v Wales - Jaco Peyper

Wales v Scotland - Nic Berry

England v Wales - Mike Adamson

Wales v France - Matthew Carley

Wales v Italy - Andrew Brace

mikey_dragon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Which bit concerns you? Ospreys have had a dominant scrum against top opposition to date, so for me that's a no-brainer. Hopefully Humphries doens't balls it all up. If we don't pick Seb Davies we'll be okay at lock. I wouldn't pick Carre over who I have mentioned but previously we did select 4 LH's, I think. Elias will go for sure, but for me he's third/fourth choice at best.

What concerns me is we don't have any enforcers at lock who are heavy enough to be a ballast at scrum time. I think the LH's we have mentioned are all roughly equal though I do think Wyn Jones (when fit & firing) is ahead of anyone else. TH is yearning for someone to come out & provide some competition behind Francis.

Well Beard and Rowlands are over 120kg, how heavy should they be? It's not often you see an international lock over 125kg. Agree on TH, it has to be Botha, he's such a strong scrummager. I don't think Wyn Jones should start over any of the Ospreys pair on form, that unit is too good to be broken up. Our most accurate lineout thrower is Owens... after him I'm not sure who the best is as they have all struggled at times.

Taylor Davies is much improved since he start playing regularly for us but I'm not sure if he's in contention?

I know what you're saying re Beard & Rowlands but I haven't seen either of them smash a ruck in the way that Jake Ball used to for Wales, if you get second rows doing that then you get really quick ball. Beard is probably the most improved player in Wales over the last 18 months to 2 years, he really has developed. I'm still not sold on Rowlands, though I will admit I haven't seen too much of the Dragons this season.

I'm happy that Taylor is getting more game time & glad to hear he is developing.

Yeah given we're still not blessed with locks we do need to make an effort to bring Jake Ball back here. It doesn't have to be forever, just 2-3 seasons and hopefully in that time one of the Exeter boys gets a promotion! I get it's not ideal but maybe when his son is older and the restrictions are eased the family can move back here. Ball was underrated by a lot but he also didn't have the best luck with injuries over the last few seasons.

Another route, which most other nations are taking, is to have our clubs recruit SA locks and have them become eligible. Jason Howell Jenkins surely has a Welsh parent...

I know what you’re saying, Oakdene. But weight is just one element of it. As Mikey says we’ve got the weight. They’re big guys. But for me the thing missing to go with it is the ‘dog’. We lack players with a bit of dog in them. Moriarty seems to have it. But if you look at a team like SA then pretty much all of their forwards have it. It’s different from being a dirty player, but it can bubble over into that I suppose. It’s aggression (legal, mostly) at the tackle area, aggression at hitting rucks. A bit of niggle, etc. We’ve just got too many nice guys I think. The weight of them is a bit pointless to a certain extent if they don’t do anything with it. We could do with developing some nasty players who won’t take a backwards step and are not just all smiles and pats on the back. Adam Jones (the prop) was a great example of our problem. Big heavy guy but like a nice big teddy bear who used to just lean on rucks and go to ground under the lightest of touches when he was carrying. We need a few guys like Snyman, Etzebeth, Kwagga Smith who you look at and think ‘I don’t want to mess with them’.

Squad is out:

WALES 2022 GUINNESS SIX NATIONS SQUAD
Forwards (20)
Rhys Carre (Cardiff Rugby – 16 caps)
Wyn Jones (Scarlets – 38 caps)
Gareth Thomas (Ospreys – 5 caps)
Ryan Elias (Scarlets – 23 caps)
Dewi Lake (Ospreys – uncapped)
Bradley Roberts (Ulster Rugby – 1 cap)
Leon Brown (Dragons – 16 caps)
Tomas Francis (Ospreys – 60 caps)
Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Rugby – 34 caps)
Adam Beard (Ospreys – 29 caps), vice-captain
Ben Carter (Dragons – 5 caps)
Seb Davies (Cardiff Rugby – 13 caps)
Will Rowlands (Dragons – 13 caps)
Christ Tshiunza (Exeter Chiefs – 2 caps)
Taine Basham (Dragons – 7 caps)
Ellis Jenkins (Cardiff Rugby – 14 caps)
Jac Morgan (Ospreys – uncapped)
Ross Moriarty (Dragons – 49 caps)
James Ratti – (Cardiff Rugby – uncapped)
Aaron Wainwright (Dragons – 34 caps)

Backs (16)
Gareth Davies (Scarlets – 65 caps)
Kieran Hardy (Scarlets – 8 caps)
Tomos Williams (Cardiff Rugby – 29 caps)
Gareth Anscombe (Ospreys – 29 caps)
Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints – 95 caps), captain
Rhys Priestland (Cardiff Rugby – 52 caps)
Callum Sheedy (Bristol Bears – 13 caps)
Jonathan Davies (Scarlets – 93 caps)
Uilisi Halaholo (Cardiff Rugby – 9 caps)
Nick Tompkins (Saracens – 16 caps)
Owen Watkin (Ospreys – 26 caps)
Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby – 35 caps)
Alex Cuthbert (Ospreys – 48 caps)
Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester Rugby – 12 caps)
Johnny McNicholl (Scarlets – 8 caps)
Liam Williams (Scarlets – 74 caps)

Dan Biggar captain and Adam Beard vice. Interesting.

4 fly halves but only 4 centres and only 5 back 3 players!

Yep, Pivac just bottled it on a number of calls again. Not even a red card can save him.

Owen Lane is a bit unlucky there I think.

Biggar and Beard as C and VC are good calls I feel, as is the selection of Ratti, now we'll see if he is international standard at No.8, watch this space Phil.

I hope the captaincy of Biggar will help him keep a lid on his backchat and tantrums. They really annoy me. But certainly in terms of experience, etc. I don’t see it as a bad move. Just surprising given that Ellis Jenkins is also in the squad and was the last captain in the absence of AWJ. Thought he was a shoo-in.

mikey_dragon wrote:Yeah given we're still not blessed with locks we do need to make an effort to bring Jake Ball back here. It doesn't have to be forever, just 2-3 seasons and hopefully in that time one of the Exeter boys gets a promotion! I get it's not ideal but maybe when his son is older and the restrictions are eased the family can move back here. Ball was underrated by a lot but he also didn't have the best luck with injuries over the last few seasons.

Another route, which most other nations are taking, is to have our clubs recruit SA locks and have them become eligible. Jason Howell Jenkins surely has a Welsh parent...

Would love to see Ball back, I know he did have a few injuries but when you consider how he used to throw himself about he wasn't too bad on the injury front.

The Oracle wrote:I know what you’re saying, Oakdene.  But weight is just one element of it.  As Mikey says we’ve got the weight.  They’re big guys.  But for me the thing missing to go with it is the ‘dog’.  We lack players with a bit of dog in them.  Moriarty seems to have it.  But if you look at a team like SA then pretty much all of their forwards have it.  It’s different from being a dirty player, but it can bubble over into that I suppose.  It’s aggression (legal, mostly) at the tackle area, aggression at hitting rucks.  A bit of niggle, etc.  We’ve just got too many nice guys I think.  The weight of them is a bit pointless to a certain extent if they don’t do anything with it.  We could do with developing some nasty players who won’t take a backwards step and are not just all smiles and pats on the back. Adam Jones (the prop) was a great example of our problem.  Big heavy guy but like a nice big teddy bear who used to just lean on rucks and go to ground under the lightest of touches when he was carrying.  We need a few guys like Snyman, Etzebeth, Kwagga Smith who you look at and think ‘I don’t want to mess with them’.

Very true, though something needs to be done at scrum time as they (the 2nd rows) don't seem to be either planting their feet or locking out which isn't giving the front rows a stable platform from which to compete.

Would’ve had Lane over Cuthbert, probably Smith over Carre and another outside back over Priestland. I guess Priestland will cover 10/15, but on the face of it it’s four 10s. Could’ve picked Lloyd there and got ten cover (in theory).

The Oracle wrote:4 fly halves but only 4 centres and only 5 back 3 players!

Given one of them's the captain its not exactly as if the position is up for grabs either, must be an assumption one or more can cover fullback?

Gooseberry wrote:

The Oracle wrote:4 fly halves but only 4 centres and only 5 back 3 players!

Given one of them's the captain its not exactly as if the position is up for grabs either, must be an assumption one or more can cover fullback?

Yes, Priestland at a push I guess. But not something he does regularly. And there’s Liam Williams and Jonny Mcnicol as the more natural/regular 15s. Unless maybe they’re looking at LW as wing with Adams as centre (like they planned in the autumn), Jonny McN as 15 and Priestland covering 10 and 15 on the bench. Wouldn’t be how I would do it but maybe that’s the thinking?

Hasn't Anscombe covered at FB quite a bit? Would have thought he would be considered closer to a FB than Priestland but I may be mistaken.

I see Biggar as been made Captain of Wales fore the 6nationsI would never of thought that,

I would of thought in the absence of Ken Owens. it would of been Jonathon Davies.

Hazel Sapling wrote:Hasn't Anscombe covered at FB quite a bit? Would have thought he would be considered closer to a FB than Priestland but I may be mistaken.

Not much since his time in Wales, HS. Not from memory anyway. Perhaps the odd appearance. But he’s been a 10 for the most part.

Edit: just to add I remember Priestland featuring for Scarlets at 15 and also Wales from memory. Not sure about at Bath though? Maybe?

majesticimperialman wrote:I see Biggar as been made Captain of Wales fore the 6nationsI would never of thought that,

I would of thought in the absence of Ken Owens. it would of been Jonathon Davies.

Many of us would not have Jonathan Davies in the team, Maj. Way off the pace and sadly on his way out. He might still feature. I wondered if he would be retained for his defence. But we need more attacking threat and he has lost a lot of pace and cutting edge.

The Oracle wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:I see Biggar as been made Captain of Wales fore the 6nationsI would never of thought that,

I would of thought in the absence of Ken Owens. it would of been Jonathon Davies.

Many of us would not have Jonathan Davies in the team, Maj. Way off the pace and sadly on his way out. He might still feature. I wondered if he would be retained for his defence. But we need more attacking threat and he has lost a lot of pace and cutting edge.

If he’s retained for his defence then it needs to be from 12, as players can beat him for pace at 13.

I actually don’t ever remember RP playing full-back. Anscombe has played there a few times for Wales, but the last time he did he was still playing for Cardiff. Jarrod Evans had also pushed him to 15 at this point.

Some of the selections are just odd, as usual. Watkin is this years most shocking call-up, taking the place of Dillon Lewis from last year.

RiscaGame wrote:Would’ve had Lane over Cuthbert, probably Smith over Carre and another outside back over Priestland. I guess Priestland will cover 10/15, but on the face of it it’s four 10s. Could’ve picked Lloyd there and got ten cover (in theory).

Exactly my views on possible changes, but we are talking about 3rd or 4th choices in their positions so not too big an issue for me.

I watched Watkin at the weekend and defensively he was brilliant, he could spark up a good partnership with one of the more ball playing centres in Tompkins or Halaholo who require a little more defensive cover.

Cuthbert is cited. I didn't think there was much in it from what I saw, and I thought the same about some unfortunate head clashes in recent weeks, all of which resulted in red. I think the powers that be need to take a look at this.

Anyway, I expect Lane to be called in if Cuthbert gets banned.

mikey_dragon wrote:I actually don’t ever remember RP playing full-back. Anscombe has played there a few times for Wales, but the last time he did he was still playing for Cardiff. Jarrod Evans had also pushed him to 15 at this point.

Some of the selections are just odd, as usual. Watkin is this years most shocking call-up, taking the place of Dillon Lewis from last year.

RP played 15 for Scarlets a bit. Sometimes when Stephen Jones was 10, so going back a bit. He actually came on for his Wales debut at fullback. I thought he was fullback for a one of the world cup campaigns, but I might have misremembered.

Here he is scoring a great try at fullback for Scarlets vs Perpignan. Looooooooong time ago though so probably irrelevant in the 'could he play there debate' if he hasn't played there recently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAUvBFw8KsU

A couple in here too as a 15, including one against Dragons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3vGT7DKSto

I would pick the fastest one to play at full-back, and by now both have lost a bit of pace. When you think about it, it makes Pivac's selections at fly-half and back 3 look more ridiclous tbh. If you want a decent fly-half with pace, who can also play full-back then Patchell is the obvious choice. I know he has been injured but when has that stopped him, the squad still containts a few injured players; given the lack of rugby this 6N might as well be a training run anyway.

Just read that Thomas Young is not in the squad as he’s still ineligible for Wales due to the 60 cap rule, even though he was able to be picked during the Autumn series. I’m not a huge fan of his so not sure I would have included him anyway, but what a farce. He’s signed for Cardiff, we gave him special dispensation for this in the Autumn, why not now for the 6N?

I thought as he has commited to Cardiff for the forseeable he is now eligible. When Gatland did it nobody dared question him. It's confusing when they keep chopping and changing the rules without telling anyone.

I read that article now there has been discussion on it. I get why they did it for the Autumn, with injuries etc. If Pivac didn't apply for an exemption, then it's fair enough. TBH, I am happy with the backrow, IF Moriarty manages to prove his fitness. I get why they want to look at Morgan in the squad, albeit I don't expect us to play him.

I expect Jac will play against Italy but I fully expect Basham to start the big games at 7.

After seeing the Irish squad, we will do well to be in the game at half time!

I did wonder about the Italy game, but I guess it depends how the rest of the tournament goes and whether he wants to finish on a high.

Yeah, I have been very concerned about that game first too.

Scotland appear to be much improved. Their clubs are in better form than ours, and their guys in England and France are playing quite well. I expect they’ll turn us over and we only beat Italy this year… hope I’m wrong.

Good article, albeit on the WOL, about Welsh Rugby dying a slow death. Nigel Davies talked a lot of sense.

mikey_dragon wrote:I thought as he has commited to Cardiff for the forseeable he is now eligible. When Gatland did it nobody dared question him. It's confusing when they keep chopping and changing the rules without telling anyone.

Lucky its not Boris Johnson picking the side then.