Djokovic´s Dilemma

First topic message reminder :

Djokovic has spent a lot of time complaining about COVID restrictions during the pandemic. But I don´t recall him yet missing a big tournament as a result. For at least one tournament, I seem to recall it was the Olympics, he tried to imply or say he was very doubtful about attending, presumably in his attempt to use his star power to get at least some rules changed. When this didn't work, when they called him on his bluff about not attending, he folded and went anyway.

Now, he has got two choices, and neither seems great from his perspective and given his beliefs.

1. Get vaccinated and attend the Australian Open. This would be a total fold, a clear admission of bluffing, and a very clear admission that he has been trying to use his star power to get rule changes rather than genuinely not planning to attend. It's sort of an admission of defeat.

2. Don´t play the Australian Open. This means giving up on one of his best chances to retire with the most slams. His attendance at this event could yet make all the difference. This also risks the vaccination issue coming up over and over again at other tournaments. Will other slams have similar rules? Is he also prepared to miss them?

Quite agree that Djoko's lack of preparation means his rivals have far more chance in Melbourne this year than usual.

I thought the same thing about Rafa and his opponents' chances at the re-arranged French in autumn 2020. Rafa went in with little or no clay-court practice after a Covid-causing truncated year.....but still won.

Well in the end Djokovic didn't face the dilemma I suggested, there was no dilemma.

We have to keep in mind here that Novak is on record as being "opposed to vaccination" and is an anti vaxxer. COVID and vaccination has been discussed excessively in the past in relation to Djokovic's attendance at other tournaments, and any need for a medical exemption was not raised in the past by Djokovic or anyone else, and only conveniently appeared at the last minute when needed.

It's therefore quite reasonable to assume that this is total BS and all about star power, until proven otherwise.

The very fact that neither Novak nor the organizers has added any details immediately adds to the suspicion.

It's annoying that further details haven't been given out, even though they will obviously be demanded. Now it will be inevitably a focus of the media for either the next few days, or the first days of the tournament until they eventually have to give further details or just formally state that they will refuse to do so. So stupid since it would be better to just come out and give all the details of the exemption straight away.

I just don't believe in Novak any more, as a person and I don't think I ever will again. This isn't the first time he hasn't exactly been on side with medical science. He just doesn't seem to be a smart guy. I think I'll be rooting for him to lose for every match for the rest of his career onwards, if I can be bothered to care. Not just because purely of this, but other things as well.

Has he thought about heavily locked down Australians have been, and how frustrations are likely boiling up, and how this might make him a hate figure in Australia? Has he thought about how most tennis tournaments are held in cities where people are typically liberal and pro vaccine? Has he thought about how many of the people in the crowd watching him will have been required to be vaccinated to turn up and watch him? Has he thought about how this will play out in the locker room as many other tennis pros have followed the rules and been forced to vaccinate?

I think this is and should be damaging to the reputation of the Australian Open.

This is worldwide news and many will think "if he isn't vaccinating, why should I?". It could conceivably lead to many deaths.

I think Novak is still the favourite to win.

He can get the match practice he needs against easy opponents in the first few rounds.

It's not like he'll have to play a top ten player in the first match.

Grand slams are long - you can build up form during the tournament.

This just reaffirms what many of us already knew; Djokovic is a classless, selfish ****.

Note that Tennis Australia's biosecurity manager Tom McDowell resigned last week. Entirely possible he saw what was about to happen and disagreed with it, so quit.

Your thoughts mirror mine Henman, I can only conclude that he is totally oblivious to what life has been like for the Australians and why they might now justifiably pile on him. Rather than taking the opportunity to reflect and be empathetic, my guess is he will play the victim (claiming he is treated unfairly by the western media etc.).

Henman Bill offers an excellent analysis above ; nothing to do disagree with there.

Hard to know whose reputation will be most damaged by this development : Novak Djokovic himself ……. or the AO executive management …..  I’m going to say the latter, simply because Djoko had of course already lost all respect (along with any remaining credibility) as a result of his selfish and child-like behaviour during early stages of the pandemic.

Liam Broady will never appear on the same page as Djokovic where the tennis record books are concerned ; but full credit to the Brit for posting an instagram story, with a screenshot of Djokovic's announcement, adding the remark:

“The second AO announced there would be exemptions 8 weeks ago we all knew."

As far as I understand it the exemption decisions were taken by the Australian Open rather than the Australian government, is that correct? I think it would be better to avoid a conflict of interest with the decisions being taken by someone in the government rather than private companies/organizations that have to balance financial benefit with ethics and almost always chose money.

Another thing to note is that this issue is just going to come up again and again at each tournament. Just because Australia is allowing him in doesn't mean others will. They may take different decisions. It could end up being the dominating story in the run up to every important tournament for the foreseeable future.

Why this anti-Novak stance?

The guy:
1) has had coronavirus
2) has been given a valid exemption (would a few latin words mean anything to you were they to be gorily disclosed to the masses?)
3) is clearly healthy and fit as a fiddle.

At the end of the day, he applied for the exemption, it was approved, he is healthy, starring the tournament totally legit.

If anybody has problems with this, they need to address it at the system that allows medical exemptions.

Here in the uk, people can go around shops and public transport without a mask and we are reminded of it regularly via in-store announcements.

I didn't notice any animosity towards those people.

At the end of the day, people worldwide have been so brainwashed by covid propaganda in the last two years, they have completely lost the plot:

The guy is healthy, fit as a fiddle and is going to play a tennis tournament.

Same as last year when vaccine was not even invented and this glorified flu bug was probably more prevalent than now.

TheRealDeal wrote:

Here in the uk, people can go around shops and public transport without a mask and we are reminded of it regularly via in-store announcements.

I didn't notice any animosity towards those people.

At the end of the day, people worldwide have been so brainwashed by covid propaganda in the last two years, they have completely lost the plot:

The guy is healthy, fit as a fiddle and is going to play a tennis tournament.

Same as last year when vaccine was not even invented and this glorified flu bug was probably more prevalent than now.

There is a great deal of animosity towards those who refuse to wear masks, not sure where you've been the past 18 months and to dismiss it as a glorified flu bug is insulting.

TheRealDeal wrote:Why this anti-Novak stance?

The guy:
1) has had coronavirus
2) has been given a valid exemption (would a few latin words mean anything to you were they to be gorily disclosed to the masses?)
3) is clearly healthy and fit as a fiddle.

At the end of the day, he applied for the exemption, it was approved, he is healthy, starring the tournament totally legit.

If anybody has problems with this, they need to address it at the system that allows medical exemptions.

Here in the uk, people can go around shops and public transport without a mask and we are reminded of it regularly via in-store announcements.

I didn't notice any animosity towards those people.

At the end of the day, people worldwide have been so brainwashed by covid propaganda in the last two years, they have completely lost the plot:

The guy is healthy, fit as a fiddle and is going to play a tennis tournament.

Same as last year when vaccine was not even invented and this glorified flu bug was probably more prevalent than now.

There is usually a lot of animosity to people who think they are too rich and famous and entitled to think that the rules for mere mortals apply to them - whether they are covid rules or other rules.

This medical exemption is available to everyone to apply for - rich or poor.

Speaking as someone who's had covid twice, I believe I have every right to call it a glorified flu bug because that's exactly what it is, don't care what people in suits and ties say on telly.

TheRealDeal wrote:This medical exemption is available to everyone to apply for - rich or poor.

Speaking as someone who's had covid twice, I believe I have every right to call it a glorified flu bug because that's exactly what it is, don't care what people in suits and ties say on telly.

The fact it's not affected you badly does not mean you have the right to post false information.

TheRealDeal wrote:This medical exemption is available to everyone to apply for - rich or poor.

You're not seriously that naive, are you? You think the poor can arrange for the result they want as easily as the rich?

TheRealDeal wrote:Speaking as someone who's had covid twice, I believe I have every right to call it a glorified flu bug because that's exactly what it is, don't care what people in suits and ties say on telly.

What do all the dead people call it?

TheRealDeal wrote: ……………..

Speaking as someone who's had covid twice, I believe I have every right to call it a glorified flu bug because that's exactly what it is, don't care what people in suits and ties say on telly.

Yes, the fact that you’ve “had covid twice” clearly imbues you with far greater levels of knowledge & understanding than any of the highly-qualified clinical / medical / scientific professionals, who spend their days addressing the huge global damage to public health caused by the virus, whilst searching for effective therapies and long-term solutions.

And whenever these professionals appear “on telly”, it makes total sense to ignore them - especially if they happen to be wearing suits and ties ……….

JuliusHMarx wrote:

TheRealDeal wrote:Speaking as someone who's had covid twice, I believe I have every right to call it a glorified flu bug because that's exactly what it is, don't care what people in suits and ties say on telly.

What do all the dead people call it?

I have no desire to enter into a (no)vax debate, it's as futile as discussing the shape of the Earth...however, I would like to point out that we could pose the same question for those who died from the boring, old-fashioned, non-glorified flu.

And even worse, if those who died were vaccinated and infected by the fellow vaccinated brothers in jab.
Not to mention the madness of Rafa testing positive a week ago (vaccinated) and being allowed in Oz.

Glad "telly" ruffled your middle class plumage.

TheRealDeal wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

TheRealDeal wrote:Speaking as someone who's had covid twice, I believe I have every right to call it a glorified flu bug because that's exactly what it is, don't care what people in suits and ties say on telly.

What do all the dead people call it?

I have no desire to enter into a (no)vax debate...

Shut up, then.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

TheRealDeal wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

TheRealDeal wrote:Speaking as someone who's had covid twice, I believe I have every right to call it a glorified flu bug because that's exactly what it is, don't care what people in suits and ties say on telly.

What do all the dead people call it?

I have no desire to enter into a (no)vax debate...

Shut up, then.

No need for the freedom of speech reminder.

Have a good evening.

Main trouble is that Djoko is not the brightest button in the box.

He's terrific at tennis. But it appears from his actions and his words, that he's not much good at anything else.

So the ambassadorial role that he craves seems unattainable. He'd like to be an icon but comes over as just a guy with some strange ideas.

He'd also love to be charismatic but either you've got charisma or you haven't. You can't suddenly attain it.

He strove to be the best tennis player in the world and he achieved that. But in his quest to be other things he's failed - and continues to fail.

All this is in complete contrast to, say, Pete Sampras. Sampras was never charismatic, never courted popularity, was - to some extent - quite boring.

He was simply the best player in the world at tennis and he left it at that.

I disagree that Djokovic is not the brighest, I actually think he is highly intelligent. The guy speaks about 5 languages fluently and he is extremely articulate in interviews. Do I agree with a lot things that he says? absolutely not but I would certainly say that him not being the brightest button in the box is way off.

You need to look at things holistically. On the one hand should he get vaccinated? I think he should but that is his decision. Should have have organised an event last year? No but he was the fall guy for it but plenty of other top players were involved and the organisers gave it the go ahead.

it is easy to ignore that prior to that Adria event that Djokovic donated millions to hospitals across Serbia and Italy to help in the fight against Covid, that wouldnt get much media attention because its a positive story involving Novak.

You also look at what he is trying to do with the Tour, he is the one driving for more prize money for lesser ranked players who are struggling to make a living, a lot of other Top Players are silent on this but he is trying to get more prize money for players in qualifiers and those losing in the early rounds because they need the money more. For me that is a very positive thing and should be supported.

I just think more balance is required. I agree with many that his stance on vaccinations is not one that i agree with but I think his constant portrayal as a villain is just ridiculous. There are few players that have battled adversity better than this guy over the years. To become arguably the greatest player of all time coming from where he was is quite simply extraordinary. My own feeling on this is that he is not the terrible person so many make him out to be. I find it interesting that so many of the next gen player say he is one of the nicest guys on the tour and these are people who have met him and know him. Like other top players he also does a huge amount for charity.

I think the attention in recent weeks he hasnt helped himself but he has followed the process and he was granted an exemption. If it was agreed that it wasnt legit, then he should not have got an exemption. I just think people love a villain and they have one in this guy because the media always focus on only the negative side of anything he does.

sirfredperry wrote:Main trouble is that Djoko is not the brightest button in the box.

He's terrific at tennis. But it appears from his actions and his words, that he's not much good at anything else.

So the ambassadorial role that he craves seems unattainable. He'd like to be an icon but comes over as just a guy with some strange ideas.

He'd also love to be charismatic but either you've got charisma or you haven't. You can't suddenly attain it.

He strove to be the best tennis player in the world and he achieved that. But in his quest to be other things he's failed - and continues to fail.

All this is in complete contrast to, say, Pete Sampras. Sampras was never charismatic, never courted popularity, was - to some extent - quite boring.

He was simply the best player in the world at tennis and he left it at that.

I am glad he's got the exemption certificate and that he'll play in Oz.

The fact that Oz gov is treating their population with such disdain and control is another matter.

From what I gathered, he's not the only player who's got the exemption and for some reason we don't know who the others are. Why not?

Good on Novak for defending his principles and integrity, millions if not billions around the world are behind him on this issue charisma or not.

It's just that western media are censoring and shutting down everyone who speaks or thinks differently.

The biggest joke is you can play unvaccinated in Sydney but can't in Melbourne.
Common sense completely out the window!

I wish people would stop and think a little, esp what level of restrictions or control is coming up next.
Today covid, tomorrow God knows what.

Anyway, let's hope for a good AO.

The AO authorities have worked hard, over many years, to enhance the status of their Slam to the point where it now attracts huge global interest and respect. How sad that they are now willing to put all that at risk by tarnishing the event's reputation in this way.

@ sfp : yes, it’s been apparent all along that Djokovic is hardly the brightest button, with the clearest evidence (not that much more was needed !) being his decision to ignore all rational indicators and plough on mindlessly with the ill-fated Adria Tour.

The unease within Australia is growing …….
https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/no-special-treatment-djokovic-exemption-australian-officials-say-2022-01-05/

I'm happy for people to discuss Djoko, and the other players (who were not stupid enough to announce that they got an exemption, so we don't know who they are).

However, this is not the forum for a political discussion on the Australian govt or the western media, so tread carefully.

For those living in Britain you could organize a march to the Australian Embassy in London in protest of Djokovic being allowed into Australia with a medical exemption.  ps: I would like to know the details of the medical exemption but I suppose we will never get to know that.

pps: maybe someone could start a new thread for the hard court swing of the 2022 season - or maybe one to cover the whole 2022 season.

JuliusHMarx wrote:However, this is not the forum for a political discussion on the Australian govt or the western media, so tread carefully.

Quite right. You need to go over to the golf forum for such political matters.

JuliusHMarx wrote:I'm happy for people to discuss Djoko, and the other players (who were not stupid enough to announce that they got an exemption, so we don't know who they are).

However, this is not the forum for a political discussion on the Australian govt or the western media, so tread carefully.

In that case hope Novak wins. For us stupid ones.

I think Djokovic pushed himself too much last year.   SFP mentioned that he wasn't properly tested at Wimbledon while the Olympics ended up as a disaster as Zverev went up a gear in the mens singles semi-final and Djokovic was swept away losing the last ten of eleven games played.  Then at the US Open he visibly had some sort of mental anguish during the final - he suggested the pressure got to him, but maybe he is not as good as his was before.  So this year is going to be very interesting to see if Djokovic is going to fall back into the pack with maybe Medvedev and Zverev and some others no longer fearing him.

SYDNEY, Jan 5 (Reuters) - Novak Djokovic needs to prove that he has a genuine medical exemption from COVID-19 vaccination when he lands in Australia or he will be "on the next plane home", Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison said on Wednesday. The world No. 1 announced on Tuesday he received an exemption to play in the Grand Slam tournament in Melbourne and said he was heading to Australia.

Tennis Australia and the Victorian state government said Djokovic was one of a "handful" of successful applicants among 26 people who sought exemptions from being vaccinated, but had not received any special treatment in the anonymous application process.

"We await his presentation and what evidence he provides us to support that," Morrison told a media conference after chairing a meeting of state leaders about dealing with record levels of COVID infections in the country. read more

"If that evidence is insufficient, then he won't be treated any different to anyone else and he'll be on the next plane home. There should be no special rules for Novak Djokovic at all. None whatsoever."

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/no-special-treatment-djokovic-exemption-australian-officials-say-2022-01-05/

slashermcguirk wrote:I disagree that Djokovic is not the brighest, I actually think he is highly intelligent.

“I know some people that, through energetical transformation, through the power of prayer, through the power of gratitude, they managed to turn the most toxic food, or maybe most polluted water into the most healing water, because water reacts. Scientists have proven that in experiment, that molecules in the water react to our emotions to what has been said,” Djokovic said.

Duty281 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:However, this is not the forum for a political discussion on the Australian govt or the western media, so tread carefully.

Quite right. You need to go over to the golf forum for such political matters.

Anything goes over there!

Henman Bill, so you think saying something like that makes him not intelligent. Look at how the guy talks in interviews, he speaks better English than most people with it as their native tongue. He can switch languages fluently at the drop of a hat in press conferences. I can assure you this guy is not lacking intelligence regardless of making some strange comments.

There are geniuses out there that make utterly bizarre comments, my point is Novak in my opinion is far from lacking intelligence. Agree or disagree with him, I have no doubt he is a pretty smart chap

slashermcguirk wrote:Henman Bill, so you think saying something like that makes him not intelligent. Look at how the guy talks in interviews, he speaks better English than most people with it as their native tongue. He can switch languages fluently at the drop of a hat in press conferences. I can assure you this guy is not lacking intelligence regardless of making some strange comments.

There are geniuses out there that make utterly bizarre comments, my point is Novak in my opinion is far from lacking intelligence. Agree or disagree with him, I have no doubt he is a pretty smart chap

I'd say that a reasonable assumption to come to based on that comment. The ability to put together a coherent sentence doesn't make one intelligent nor does having the ability to speak multiple languages.

Djokovic is not going to be reading this little chat so whether Djokovic is a moron or the smartest guy in the room, whether he is evil, socially irresponsible or a saint and true savior it doesn't really matter. As long as we are civil to each other - commentators from the aether - and as long as we don't take what people say or opine personally - then we can all get along. Personally I think we have to wait and see - but clearly the media are going to be testing the Australian authorities and Djokovic every step of the way.

He may (or may not) have a high IQ, but he believes some pretty stupid stuff.
And some of his behaviour is a lot more crass than many other top athletes.
I think much of it comes from his need to be loved, and he feels his achievements entitle him to be loved by the public - then he gets upset and can't understand why he isn't. He lacks the emotional intelligence to understand why his actions, such as this AO issue, meet with disapproval.

According to the Times, he has been denied entry to Australia, due to a mistake in a VISA application by one of his support team.

slashermcguirk wrote:Henman Bill, so you think saying something like that makes him not intelligent. Look at how the guy talks in interviews, he speaks better English than most people with it as their native tongue. He can switch languages fluently at the drop of a hat in press conferences. I can assure you this guy is not lacking intelligence regardless of making some strange comments.

There are geniuses out there that make utterly bizarre comments, my point is Novak in my opinion is far from lacking intelligence. Agree or disagree with him, I have no doubt he is a pretty smart chap

I do think smart people say dumb things and vice versa. I also think people can be super smart in some ways and dumb in others. You might be a genius poet and artist, but not understanding science. Or you can be a physics professor that just discovered a new theory that blew everyone away but don't have the social skills to shine at a party. There is emotional intelligence which might be different from IQ/academic intelligence. We've all known people who were rubbish at math at school but wrote good history essays.

I don't think one dumb comment makes someone an idiot, but I do also think I could probably go and dig up 3-4 other comments from Djokovic that were just as dumb. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt the first time, but not the third time, and the way he's badly handled this whole situation with the exemption is at least the third time for him.

Anyway, I suggest the only thing for you and I to do is get down to Australia and force him to do an IQ test agree to disagree.

Even the great Rod Laver has got involved -
Australian former player Rod Laver said the reason for the exemption should be made public, saying the situation "might get ugly".

"Yes, you're a great player and you've performed and won so many tournaments, so it can't be physical," he said. "So what is the problem?"

Meanwhile - "A member of his team had applied for a sub-class of visa which does not allow medical exemptions for being unvaccinated." Clearly he should have done it himself, given his intelligence.

It seems the Djoko will-he-won't-he-play saga will run and run. Apparently his team cocked up the visa application and now the Aussie state of Victoria is, reportedly, not supporting his application.

May have to come down to a decision taken at Prime Ministerial level. All rather unsatisfactory.

What a time to be a journalist. All we need now is some sort of engineered diplomatic row between the Australian and Serbian Prime-ministers.

I wonder if Russia will step in to aid their Serbian friends in their quarrel with Australia?

Then the US might get involved as well.

Are other slam tournaments going to follow suit - mandatory vaccination? In the UK certain venues require proof of vaccination for entry.

No name Bertie wrote:Are other slam tournaments going to follow suit - mandatory vaccination? In the UK certain venues require proof of vaccination for entry.

Making vaccinations mandatory (ie as a condition of tournament entry) would not equate to “following suit” because that is clearly not what the AO has done. If vaccinations were mandatory for AO entry, then Djokovic would not have been given a green light to fly out to Melbourne.

I can really understand why Djoko appears to be anti-vax. I've had THREE Covid jabs and I'm still miles away from getting on to the pro tennis circuit, let alone competing in Grand Slam events.

Breaking  news...

Novax's visa has been cancelled and he has been told to leave the country today and sent back to his home country.

I hope he doesn't try to escape the secure room at Tullamarine...

His lawyers are apparently working on some sort of legal challenge. Good luck to them. No chance they can stop the deportation.

I never knew they had own goals in tennis.

Obviously this could have been handled better. Someone is clearly at fault here. Whether it's Djokovic, his team, the government, the Australian Open, that's not clear.

But Djokovic plus his team (say 5 people so 6 flights) have just flown, probably at least 1 or 2 of them in business or economy class or a private jet, for nothing, all the way from Europe to Australia just to go and see the airport and go back.

By the way realistically that's probably 20 - 200 tonnes CO2e, which will probably cause months worth of suffering and life loss from climate change.

Someone snapped this photo in the airport. Looks like Nole's luck was out:

Surely the fault lies with Djoko, his team and the AO tournament organisers. There is also the worry of how someone can hop on a plane (private jet or not) without the appropriate entry requirements. Tens of thousands of people (some were even fully vaccinated) were denied entry into Australia during the height of the international travel restrictions. Also Australian citizens were denied access to family, etc from interstate. We even had the bizarre situation where people living across a border on a river were forbidden entry to another state which was a long stone's throw away.

The Australian Government is in control of immigration at our borders. Not the Vic State Governmentt... or some tennis organisation or a pigeon club.
The Hon. Alex Hawke MP, or a spokesperson from his office should have stepped up earlier and made this clear to Djoko and his touring party. Everyone else knows (or should know) the rules. That would have saved perhaps hundreds of tonnes of CO2e and saved everyone from the embarrassment.

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall at airport immigration. Nobody, not even Djoko, can 'pull one over' these people. This ain't Serbia.

The Australian Border Force will continue to ensure that those who arrive at our border comply with our laws and entry requirements.

The ABF can confirm that Mr Djokovic failed to provide appropriate evidence to meet the entry requirements to Australia, and his visa has been subsequently cancelled.

Non-citizens who do not hold a valid visa on entry or who have had their visa cancelled will be detained and removed from Australia.

The ABF can confirm Mr Djokovic had access to his phone.​


Serbia’s President Aleksandar Vucic says “the whole of Serbia” is with Djokovic.

Well, soon Novak can be with the whole of Serbia again.