F1 2021 Season

Jeff Navarro wrote:I’ve watched f1, and motorsports in general, for many years and I’ve never seen the bartering of penalties.

Beyond a joke.

Just Gareth wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:I’ve watched f1, and motorsports in general, for many years and I’ve never seen the bartering of penalties.

Beyond a joke.

There needs to be a new race director ffs

Horrible driving by Spinoda, shunting Vettel off on the apex of a corner.

Vettel able to continue but Yuki needs a new nose. Virtual Safety Car.

I understand Honda have deep pockets but when do they pull the pin on Yuki.
He’s crashing all the time.

VSC saving Max’s tyres here.

Awful track. Glad this track is moved to the early part of the calendar, because this is shameful for the penultimate event and season climax

For me Singapore is the perfect street circuit. Monaco is a bore fest and Jeddah is definitely in the Monaco bracket.
They need to reprofile this.

MASI THE TRACK IS CLEAR

Let’s race for fu**’s sake

How long is this VSC, all aiding Max

Jeff Navarro wrote:

Just Gareth wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:I’ve watched f1, and motorsports in general, for many years and I’ve never seen the bartering of penalties.

Beyond a joke.

There needs to be a new race director ffs

Murder someone, and Jonathan Wheatley can barter with the judge and get you two days in prison

Another VSC

Beyond a joke. What a shameful end to this championship this event has been

Max cut corner again

This is a joke

Oh my god

Throw this boy out the Championship

Seriously WTF Max!

Cuts the corner AGAIN to keep the lead - hits Lewis to boot!

This idiot just cannot race cleanly.

Needs a 5 - 10 second time penalty at least.

Verstappen is a disgrace. Chuck him out before he kills someone.

Outrageous

Masi you have to stop this

This is damaging the sport now.

This cheat is a disgrace

OMFG!

Now the clown slows down in the middle of the track!

That is NOT how you give a place back.

IF Max wins the title this year it will be heavily tainted.

Masi has lost all control

Max now being told to give place back, but Lewis got damage

Even if Max gives the place back, the damage to Lewis' car will make him a sitting duck.

Five second

What a joke

Get in there, Lewis

Some measure of justice.

Max given a 5-second penalty for leaving the track.

Lewis just needs to finish closer to Max than that.


Okay...was that a legit overtake by Lewis, or was Max told to do it again, because he sneakily timed the first one to get DRS on Lewis?

Five second penalty for the cheat, who's doing more cheating. What a horrendous individual the cheat is.

Equal points

Christian telling Max he didn't need to slow a second time.

More confusion...this is the most ridiculous race I have ever seen in 30+ years of watching F1.

Wow - Max saying his tyres have gone. Christian saying he can't pit again as the gap to Ocon is marginal. :o

Lewis being told to stay off the kerbs...

Get in there, Lewis!!!

Max hang your head in shame.

You disgrace

No defence for that

Wow - Valtteri pips Esteban to 3rd right on the line!

That was one crazy, chaotic race.

Justice done in the end with Lewis the rightful winner.


Think this race also shows there needs to be better / quicker radio comms between race control, teams & drivers when it comes to decisions to let one car pass another. Could have saved a lot of aggro.

Would probably help if we had a competent race director. Michael Masi seems like a total buffoon. Very weak leadership from him.

Hamilton has to grab pole in Abu Dhabi and just run. Can’t afford to be anywhere near Max. Max knows a DNF for both and he’s champion, so still has the higher ground

Max going to see the stewards in 40 minutes for suspected breach of the regs, for the incident where Lewis ran into the back of him.

Possible penalty for the final race?

Just Gareth wrote:Hamilton has to grab pole in Abu Dhabi and just run. Can’t afford to be anywhere near Max. Max knows a DNF for both and he’s champion, so still has the higher ground

Can easily see a Schumacher/Hill type incident happening.

Just Gareth wrote:Hamilton has to grab pole in Abu Dhabi and just run. Can’t afford to be anywhere near Max. Max knows a DNF for both and he’s champion, so still has the higher ground

Oh crap - I forgot about that. If they're level on points it goes to countback on race wins, podiums etc.

Think Lewis has 5 poles and 8 wins, but Max has 9 and 9.

Duty281 wrote:

Just Gareth wrote:Hamilton has to grab pole in Abu Dhabi and just run. Can’t afford to be anywhere near Max. Max knows a DNF for both and he’s champion, so still has the higher ground

Can easily see a Schumacher/Hill type incident happening.

At least Schumacher only did it when there was a title at stake.

Max just thinks thats how you should drive in F1.

Verstappen is a cheating scumbag.

Soul Requiem wrote:Verstappen is a cheating scumbag.

I wouldn't even mind so much if he held his hands up and admitted when he did something wrong. But his attitude is that everything he does is fine...its never his fault.

Worse, he then complains and cries like a baby when Hamilton gives him a bit of payback.

As they say, if you can't take it, don't dish it out.

Watched NFL last night so really wasn't keeping tabs on this. Before we get into the meat of the action, the state of the track is what it is, but also all of the drivers who line up are well paid professionals, supposedly competing at the pinnacle of their sport. Much like Mugello last year, a lot of the incidents yesterday were purely amateur.

Anyway...
Max's defense continues to cross the line and this time he was rightfully punished for it. Slightly unclear as to why he got the 5 seconds and got told to let Lewis back past, but that was one of a number of confusing decisions.

The other one was naughty, but equally clumsy and really could've been avoided if everyone involved wasn't messing about. Max was told to give the place back, Mercedes didn't tell Lewis he was being let past and both drivers were messing about trying to be behind at the drs line. Max ultimately shouldn't be braking where he was, hence the 10 seconds but again it was very easily avoidable if the two weren't messing around.

Recent events are really killing my interest in the sport to be honest. The two leading teams having a slap fight both publicly and privately over self created conspiracy theories, both drivers being summoned to the stewards every other session over technicalities, driving standards down the toilet and a championship on course to be decided by one teams drivers taking out the other either way. And that's before we get onto the toxicity of any kind of debate.

Agree. Tbh, it’s no real surprise it’s stooped this low, especially with RB and Max involved. Throw in the incompetence of Masi, and that has just fanned the flames for me, and encouraged the behaviour of both teams.

Historically, all the intense title battles in some way, follow this route, and things become extremely unsavoury. I’m not saying Mercedes are blameless, but the toxic environment Red Bull have created there is doing nobody any good, or the image of F1. It’s no surprise Max is what he is, given he’s being taught and encouraged to perform every dirty trick in the book, by that despicable trio of Jos, Helmut & Horner.

As for the actual battle on track, it’s been ruined for me. It’s not racing anymore, because if Max gets overtaken, he just doesn’t brake for the next corner, and just runs Hamilton wide, or out of road. It’s not skilful driving, or an enjoyable wheel to wheel experience for the fan to watch anymore.

Just Gareth wrote:...

As for the actual battle on track, it’s been ruined for me. It’s not racing anymore, because if Max gets overtaken, he just doesn’t brake for the next corner, and just runs Hamilton wide, or out of road. It’s not skilful driving, or an enjoyable wheel to wheel experience for the fan to watch anymore.

Brazil and the first restart in Saudi, he just needed to yield the corner and fight back later. Instead, braking 25 m or 10 m too late (respectively) and ignoring the limits of the track so as to get a nose back ahead by the apex and then saying 'I'm ahead, so yield' is just bad and dangerously aggressive driving. Hamilton did well in those two instances to avoid a collision, and obviously couldn't do anything about the Monza crash - Silverstone was still Lewis being slightly more at fault than Max, in that he never quite got fully alongside and was wide of his ideal racing line, but again many other drivers on the outside would have braked more and looked for the cut back rather than trying to hold the outside; simple physics meant that Max was putting his car in a position where Lewis's car had to head towards.

My main takeaways from yesterday;

1. Track is a bit of a joke. Sure it might be fun for the drivers to drive, but for that speed, it is just way way too narrow resulting in far too many red flag/safety car/VSC scenarios across both F1 and F2. I think having it early season, like they are next year, will be much better...the odd random chaos track in a 20+ race season is fine when it's early imo. Do think they need to find a way to try and widen it in some areas, or build in some more run off though (like Baku has)

2. As I posted in the mid summer when everyone had declared the title race "over" - Max/Red Bull have little to no experience competing for a title, and "incidents" seem to happen far more often for them. We've really seen that bare out the last few races. Max, in his first real ever title fight, is relying on his instinct which is naturally aggressive and is pushing the boundaries too far (from an entertainment point of view, I should say I much prefer this to the Valterri Bottas shrivel up and wilt approach). Hamilton/Mercedes experience is really shining through down the final stretch of the season now they've made up a pace deficit, which is good news for me having got him to win the title at 3/1 when his engine penalty was announced in Brazil

3. All these proclamations of "cheat" etc are just a bit much for me, and I see others have posted about how ridiculous/toxic it has become between RB/Merc - think this is a symptom of this. I think we've all said throughout the season, whether it was Merc early season moaning about Red Bull's front wing (iirc) and recently Red Bull moaning about Merc's rear wing, this constant tit for tat around technicalities and all this nonsense is really off putting and really detracts from the overall product. Should note, this happens throughout the grid too, so while magnified by these two teams it isn't just them, and sure others would be doing similar in contention.

4. It is fairly clear there is just too much on Masi's plate with the teams behaving in this way for him to handle - surely there must be someone else to help relay communications in scenarios like yesterday, where as far as I can tell Max had been told by the FIA/his team to hand the place back, but the FIA didn't have time to relay the message to Merc, who then didn't have time to tell Lewis before the incident in the final corner.
I do think the teams have been also played into this Masi/FIA stuff this year too, there is no way they'd be trying on half the stuff they are this year if Charlie Whiting was still alive. Hopefully in the off-season they all pull their act together

5. On the actual race itself, Red Bull made a massive c0ck up coming out of the 2nd red flag putting Verstappen on the medium tyres. It's been lost in all of the hoopla, understandably so...but that was a horrendous tactical decision, as even with numerous VSC's, his tyres had completely gone well before the end of the race.

Not sure what else they could do, other than put Max on those mediums. Starting third, he needed a great initial launch, and try to make the move on Ocon/Hamilton, and it succeeded. They then have track position, and can rely upon Max’s aggressive defence, or luck out on another red flag. Staying on the hards, probably would of just seen him follow in behind Hamilton until the end, as the RB wouldn’t of had the straight line speed.

Bottas went on the mediums too, they just had to roll the dice on making it last to make moves. Still had second place pretty secure

Fair points - hadn't really thought of it in those terms. Wipe that final point from the record books!

dummy_half wrote:

Just Gareth wrote:...

As for the actual battle on track, it’s been ruined for me. It’s not racing anymore, because if Max gets overtaken, he just doesn’t brake for the next corner, and just runs Hamilton wide, or out of road. It’s not skilful driving, or an enjoyable wheel to wheel experience for the fan to watch anymore.

Brazil and the first restart in Saudi, he just needed to yield the corner and fight back later. Instead, braking 25 m or 10 m too late (respectively) and ignoring the limits of the track so as to get a nose back ahead by the apex and then saying 'I'm ahead, so yield' is just bad and dangerously aggressive driving. Hamilton did well in those two instances to avoid a collision, and obviously couldn't do anything about the Monza crash - Silverstone was still Lewis being slightly more at fault than Max, in that he never quite got fully alongside and was wide of his ideal racing line, but again many other drivers on the outside would have braked more and looked for the cut back rather than trying to hold the outside; simple physics meant that Max was putting his car in a position where Lewis's car had to head towards.

Well said.

That's Max's default tactic: just try and brake later than the other guy and force them to either yield, run off track or crash.

That isn't good or skilful racing, thats just bullying and can be downright dangerous, depending on the specific track / corner.

Its the total opposite of what you see when Hamilton has gone wheel to wheel with the likes of Bottas, Alonso or other more experienced drivers. You see them go through multiple corners, just inches apart, but there is no contact and both drivers give each other just enough room to stay on track.

Abu Dhabi extends it’s deal and is confirmed on the calendar until, 2030.

So, who wins it this weekend? Is it an eighth world title for Lewis Hamilton, or will Max prevail, and win his first ever F1 world title?

Will it be decided on track, or will it be decided in the courts?

Post race in Jeddah I felt pretty angry at what transpired. The weak leadership from FIA and mostly Masi has allowed this poor behaviour to escalate.
I read a report that Masi was facing a vote of no confidence for this quite frankly ridiculous behaviour at Jeddah. The race director can’t be allowed to make deals on penalties.
I personally feel Masi should’ve been terminated. He’ll never be the level and class of Whiting.
After Monza there should’ve been firm statement stating no further incidents will be tolerated but Masi doesn’t do anything. He allowed the situation to continue getting worse.

So after FP1 and FP2, probably as expected, it looks like advantage Mercedes. Could be some sandbagging going on, but based on the latest few races, I think not.

I think Max is going to need to find a little extra and try to get himself between Hamilton and Bottas on the grid if he is going to be close enough to run Hamilton off the road.

Because in my opinion, Max's best chance this weekend is a DNF for Lewis

Definitely sandbagging, more so, from, Mercedes. RB race pace looked good, and looked like RB toying with trying to make this a one stop.

Kimi binning it also showcased that red flags likely to used in and around that hotel section.

Functionally this track projects more like COTA than Qatar or Jeddah so RB should be more in the game here you'd suspect. They had an edge in the longer runs, and with Ocon 2nd you'd guess the headline times aren't massively representative so far

Oscar Piastri wins F2 championship to add to his F3 and Formula Renault Eurocup titles. All won back to back to back.
It’s ridiculous how he didn’t find an F1 seat.